So what went wrong with Barry Bannan?

[DrGonzo]

Buckfast and driving.

[Percy McCarthy]

Too small I think. His ability made up for it to a certain degree but he didn't have quite enough. Look at the players his size who have made it - they are absolutely worls class. Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Maradonna. Can't think of any more.

No. How about Billy Bremner,Johnny Giles, and Zola for starters.

 

All exceptional footballers. That's my point, you have to be exceptionally talented to make up for lack of physical stature and presence. I think Bannan has the ability but lacks the 'wiry strength' of all the others mentioned. If he was a bit taller I don't think his ability would be an issue.

It's not about strength, it's about brains and reactions. Bannan was lauded by managers from Holloway to Lambert via GH for his talent, but it's quite clear his brain has let him down. He never learned about the game he should be playing, never learned the subtleties of being a midfield playmaker.

I do think some blame has to go to MON, whose preference for technically limited, overpaid, senior jobbers set back the progress of a few of our youth teamers. However, though being inferior in talent, Clark and Albrighton have worked hard and are being given another chance by Lambert, whereas Delfouneso and Bannan are off. The reason: mentality. Fonz absolutely thought he'd made it far too early on, and I think Bannan suffered from a combination of resting on the laurels of his Fulham and Man Utd performances and of Eck being too footballingly limited himself to tell him not to go it there, give it the Billy Big Bollocks and spray the ball around flashily and aimlessly.

He still has a chance to make a decent career for himself, but he'll never be as good as he could be because he never bothered to learn. A great example of how being a good footballer isn't entirely dependent on technique - as SGT said to that reporter at half time, 'you play football with your heads.'

Yeah, size doesn't matter. That's why the Premier League is littered with borderline midgets. Not.

[supertom]

Occasionally off the pitch there could be seen as something of a perceived arrogance about Barry Bannan. He's undoubtedly go ability some other players he's been with over the last 4 years, don't have. I don't think he's worked hard enough to improve his all round game.

For someone with a wand of a left foot (apparently) his passing needs to be more consistent. He can pick out some excellent long passes but it's choosing the as and when. It's reading a team mates run. He doesn't necessarily have as good vision or anticipation as he does long passing ability. People mention Xavi as an example of small players without much strength who can still show their primary ability. The thing with Xavi (obviously using a worldy as a comparison isn't entirely fair on BB) is that he never, ever wastes a pass. He knows when to keep it simple, when to be incisive, and when to go long. Barry's decision making is not so good. Ironically it got a little better last season, but not up to scratch. That aside, Xavi's movement and availability throughout the pitch is exceptional too. He's always there when you need him. Bannan goes missing in games, particularly after an error. He'll go missing or his composure on the ball just goes to shit.
His set pieces are consistently poor.

He should have worked on his strength. He has no pace at all, there's no rectifying that, but he should have trained harder to make him self more robust. Dennis Wise was tiny but he was hard to shake off the ball and he could really muller someone with a tackle.

As I say, in terms of Villa players who've come through, and this relates to Delfouneso too. I'm going to make the Luke Moore and Gabby Agbonlahor comparison. In terms of natural ability, Luke Moore was better than Gabby. Hell, maybe even Stefan was too. We all saw that. Gab of course had one raw ingredient that gave him at least one exceptional attribute. Whilst the Moore's never fulfilled their potential, and a few on here thought, hoped that one day we may have seen the Moore bro's up front, Gabby has become a premier league regular and an international. Luke Moore's score what, 15ish top flight goals. Gabby 60. Why? Because Gabby has a fantastic work ethic. He's work his bollocks off. He's been strong willed on and off the pitch. He's had self belief that Moore never had say, without have too much arrogance that perhaps Bannan has. He's worked extremely hard to improve the weaker aspects of his game, like his touch, his strength, his passing, his dribbling. He's actually a good player now, and also adaptable. He can play up top or on the flanks, either side. He can shoot with both feet. He's quite good in the air.

When some of our more gifted academy players don't make the grade, the only person that can be played at the end of the day is themselves. If you want to make it in the top league you've got to work hard and really fight for your chance. Look at how Ash Westwood stepped up to the top flight. Essentially he was doing would Barry Bannan could be but wasn't. Westy's not big, he's not a physical player by any means but his passing is spot on, his vision is very good and his control of the pitch is superb. He's always available for the ball and rarely wastes it.

[LeeB]

Top post Supertom, absolutely spot on regarding Gabby vs. Moore.

The understanding of this seems to underpin our recruitment strategy, which is what fills me with so much hope for every one of our unearthed gems.

[Monty]

Size doesn't have to matter if you use some intelligence. Obviously, the number of big players massively outranks the number of intelligent ones.

[OCD]

In Stan Petrov, he had the perfect role model to learn from. Someone who was always making themselves available and played simple passes with the priority of retaining possession. Never looking for the 'Hollywood' pass. Instead of having that ready made, we've had to bring in Ashley Westwood to do pretty much the same thing. As a result Bannan's and Westwood's careers are going in the totally opposite directions.

[Yossarian]

So the next question is why aren't our academy producing the players with the grit, determination or brains to make it in the top flight? Surely these can be learnt as much as the forty yard cross-field pass.

[supertom]

So the next question is why aren't our academy producing the players with the grit, determination or brains to make it in the top flight? Surely these can be learnt as much as the forty yard cross-field pass.

I guess part of that comes into work ethic, and studying the game. I always sensed with Bannan that he felt he had the ability to be a top midfielder already, and never really ironed out the creases.

What I do think is that for the lads coming through, who are 19/20, we now have in place a manager and an ethos that will help them along greatly. That wasn't really the case with O Neill. Houllier and Eck used our youth, but more out of want for better players. We've recognised the importance of young players now.

I do think in the next 2-3 years we'll see more successes coming through. Whereas you'd say that the group around 23ish now, the kind of make or break age hasn't been entirely successful. If Lambert stays, I think he'll get it right. I look at Grealish, Donacien, Gardner, Robinson, Johnson for example and they look good. There's also a lot of hope for Carruthers (questionnable attitude will hinder him unless he grows up), Drennen and Burke. We have quality coming through. If we loan then more efficiently, bed them in better, it'll help. If at least half that group are established in the squad in 2 years time, then we'll have done very well.

[Percy McCarthy]

Size doesn't have to matter if you use some intelligence. Obviously, the number of big players massively outranks the number of intelligent ones.

So you're either big or intelligent and never the twain shall meet?

Being a bit of a short-arse myself, I'd whole-heartedly agree with that.

[achilles]

How about, he just wasn't good enough?

This, never really rated him to be honest!
Think he will just drift about in the Championship or even lower.

[onje_villa]

I think it's a well-written post and people saying "He's just not good enough" are wrong.

Something clearly was lacking be it attitude, aptitude or effort but it wasn't talent that for sure. I also share the OP's worry that a lot of talented players haven't had their potential maximised. I don't think that point can be argued against. I'm hoping it's something Lambert is currently addressing so that the future youth players coming through have the sort of attributes that he's currently scouting for.

Bizarrely I don't actually think Bannan was all that bad last season, there were times when he was putting more effort than anyone on the park, the crowd getting on his back just put more pressure on him and things seemed to escalate from there.

Obviously he has had his issues off the field too which can't be ignored.

[Monty]

Size doesn't have to matter if you use some intelligence. Obviously, the number of big players massively outranks the number of intelligent ones.

So you're either big or intelligent and never the twain shall meet?

Being a bit of a short-arse myself, I'd whole-heartedly agree with that.

Occasionally, and scarily, they do meet. Big players might have less of a chance of developing real footballing nous just because they have less need to, whereas shorter players need to adapt. But Vieira, for instance, was big and clever, as was Thuram in defence, and Zlatan obviously has everything (except the 'being too bothered' gene). It's just that intelligence for a player is probably harder than going to the gym.

[Clampy]

The 'hollywood ball' comments are unfair and a bit lazy really. He dose'nt make those those kind of passes half as much as some people make out. He does try stuff that dose'nt always come off but by and large last season he kept it simple and at times looked a better player for it.

[Navin R Johnson]

I believe anybody can be taught to excel at anything if the teachers (coaches) are good enough and the subject is willing and works hard enough.   I think Barry Bannan's downfall has been caused by lack of willingness to have the faults in his game coached out of him.   Others have referred to his arrogance and that is as good a term as any other.

Game after game we have seen him attempt to play fifty yard passes when a five yard pass was the best option.   I cannot believe nobody told him to cut out the glory balls and play it simple.   One fault he still has which drives me mad is that he will never run with the ball directly up the pitch.   He always goes on diagonal runs which make him easier to dispossess and expose his lack of pace.   He must be a coach's worst nightmare.

All of that and too much clubbing and booze.   I wish him well wherever he goes but I feel sorry for anybody who tries to address his faults.

[Yossarian]

During the last test I listened to someone on TMS during an interval, it might have been CMJ, talk about Joe Root. Apparently Joe Root is particularly good at going into the nets and working on his weaknesses before being told by the coaches that he ought to go work on these weaknesses. I can't imagine Barry Bannan doing the football equivalent of that.