Ongoing Defensive Frailties

[supertom]

Gents, anyone at the game last night let us know whether there were any improvements, or was it just a case of them not getting into he last third due to our attacking threat 

The latter. We largely kept the ball extremely well, especially first half. They barely got a sniff. On the positive side of things. Donacien looks a great prospect, so if any of are center backs aren't careful, he could be sniffing around for their place.

Bacuna covered right back well, so he'd be an option there if Lowton is out.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Gents, anyone at the game last night let us know whether there were any improvements, or was it just a case of them not getting into he last third due to our attacking threat 

The latter. We largely kept the ball extremely well, especially first half. They barely got a sniff. On the positive side of things. Donacien looks a great prospect, so if any of are center backs aren't careful, he could be sniffing around for their place.

Bacuna covered right back well, so he'd be an option there if Lowton is out.

Agreed.
The Bacuna thing was a bit surprising. Took me ages to work out who it was and when I did, where he was playing. I assumed he'd gone off after 60 and we'd brought another promising youngster in! His goal was cracker!
Defended well generally although not that much threat from them.
Clark was a bit reckless twice in a matter of a few minutes - booked then ploughed through someone minutes later. Could have been sent off if not a friendly. Or if Phil F Dowd had been reffing!

[warleyboy]

Gents, anyone at the game last night let us know whether there were any improvements, or was it just a case of them not getting into he last third due to our attacking threat 

The latter. We largely kept the ball extremely well, especially first half. They barely got a sniff. On the positive side of things. Donacien looks a great prospect, so if any of are center backs aren't careful, he could be sniffing around for their place.

Bacuna covered right back well, so he'd be an option there if Lowton is out.

So are you saying that if Okore steps straight up to the plate, Vlaar needs to keep an eye over his shoulder for donacien, or a possible pairing with Vlaar.....
This could be what our defense has been needing, wondering whether PL has this planed all along ?

[SoccerHQ]

Knight better really? You'll be rating Curtis Davies higher next....

When he had Laursen by his side, yes. That said, Vlaar would look a lot better with Laursen by his side.
What we still need is that level of quality of defender who can come within sniffing distance of Olof and Martin. Dunney did in his first season. Vlaar is way off.

Zat Knight was good in the air too and actually despite being bought as a back up I thought he proved good value in the end. Some important goals, and some surprisingly dominent games. The odd howler I grant you, but less regularity than the Concrete gentleman.

Knight was very lucky firstly a club like us came in for him from annual relegation battles at Fulham and he had Laursen alongside him. No surprise in 08/09 when he was injured, the defence quickly collapsed.

Now back to his natural level at Bolton.

[tomd2103]

Gents, anyone at the game last night let us know whether there were any improvements, or was it just a case of them not getting into he last third due to our attacking threat 

The latter. We largely kept the ball extremely well, especially first half. They barely got a sniff. On the positive side of things. Donacien looks a great prospect, so if any of are center backs aren't careful, he could be sniffing around for their place.

Bacuna covered right back well, so he'd be an option there if Lowton is out.

So are you saying that if Okore steps straight up to the plate, Vlaar needs to keep an eye over his shoulder for donacien, or a possible pairing with Vlaar.....
This could be what our defense has been needing, wondering whether PL has this planed all along ?

Still wouldn't be surprised to see PL revisit a formation including 3 CBs at some point this coming season.  We struggled with it last season, but have to remember that Herd, Clark and Baker were the back three for most of that time.  I've not seen Donacien play yet, but if he is as promising and as quick as some on here are saying, a back three of Okore, Vlaar, Donacien could be a possibility.   

[Holy Trinity]

Gents, anyone at the game last night let us know whether there were any improvements, or was it just a case of them not getting into he last third due to our attacking threat 

The latter. We largely kept the ball extremely well, especially first half. They barely got a sniff. On the positive side of things. Donacien looks a great prospect, so if any of are center backs aren't careful, he could be sniffing around for their place.

Bacuna covered right back well, so he'd be an option there if Lowton is out.

So are you saying that if Okore steps straight up to the plate, Vlaar needs to keep an eye over his shoulder for donacien, or a possible pairing with Vlaar.....
This could be what our defense has been needing, wondering whether PL has this planed all along ?

Still wouldn't be surprised to see PL revisit a formation including 3 CBs at some point this coming season.  We struggled with it last season, but have to remember that Herd, Clark and Baker were the back three for most of that time.  I've not seen Donacien play yet, but if he is as promising and as quick as some on here are saying, a back three of Okore, Vlaar, Donacien could be a possibility.   

Donacien to me looks a great prospect. i feel he could be exactly what we need and fully expect lambert to have seen this potential in the recent games and use him throughout the season in various games. league cup and the odd prem games, within 2 years he could be ready for 30+ games.
strong, fast, composed and versatile what more could you ask for. But just for the record by no means the finished article and handle with care must be the approach we take with him,.

[Dante Lavelli]

If he's that good, wouldn't it be best that he's sent on a proper loan for a season?
He'll learn more doing that than in reserve football (development? U23? - whatever it's called)

[Clampy]

I watched a couple of reserve games on AVTV last season and Donacien stood out for me. A loan somewhere might be an idea though.

[Matt Collins]

I'm a bit concerned that he sees Clark starting with vlaar. My memory had been that baker had moved ahead of Clark. But in fact there were only a couple of games where Clark was fit and only on the bench.

I really want him to make it and I think he does have talent. But he needs to improve in a lot of areas and prefer baker in there.

I'm hoping Okore usurps all of our others but its a big ask to do so immediately

[Mortimer's Bear]

I watched a couple of reserve games on AVTV last season and Donacien stood out for me. A loan somewhere might be an idea though.

We're quite poor at utilising the loan system aren't we.

[Dante Lavelli]

I watched a couple of reserve games on AVTV last season and Donacien stood out for me. A loan somewhere might be an idea though.

We're quite poor at utilising the loan system aren't we.

Yip.  I read a long piece yesterday which looks at why we (the Premier League) are bad at bringing youth players through compared to Germany (and others).  One of the key observations is that PL based players aged between 16 and 22 play a lot fewer competitive games.  Numerous examples of young players getting snapped up by PL clubs and then not getting games where provided (Chelsea apparently paid Leeds £5m for two youngsters who are now playing lower and non league football) whereas players who come through at championship clubs end up becoming better players: Ince (left liverpool) and Westwood being two good examples.

So despite doing well at U16/18 levels PL clubs (and England) fall behind at the crucial point where they should be learning the most.

Villa are guilty of this too, although there has been a change of philosphy under Lambert.  However we're still lacking in our use of he loan system.  This will become more important as our squad becomes bigger as we cannot have too many young players not playing matches.

[TonyD]

I still think we will sign a CB in the next few weeks.

[Concrete John]

I'm a bit concerned that he sees Clark starting with vlaar. My memory had been that baker had moved ahead of Clark. But in fact there were only a couple of games where Clark was fit and only on the bench.

I really want him to make it and I think he does have talent. But he needs to improve in a lot of areas and prefer baker in there.

I'm hoping Okore usurps all of our others but its a big ask to do so immediately

I think Vlaar and Clark was his preferred partnership last season, so I can see him having the mentality of keeping that and wanting the likes of Okore to play himself into the side.  One thing about last season was there wasn't any pressure on the CBs for their places, which there will be next season, so hopefully that alone will see an improvement.

[WALTERS WARRIORS]

I still think we will sign a CB in the next few weeks.

I really hope we do. PL must see we have problems still. And feel another option would help ......

[warleyboy]

I thought he may bring in one extra body, but without the sale of Ireland, bent, given, just do not see this happening.