Ongoing Defensive Frailties

[SoccerHQ]

It's only a friendly, pride in the shirt sounds a bit extreme in that context.

The comedy defending, though, I've had enough of that already!

I would like to think that a "professional" would have enough pride and committment not to wish to lose to a non- league side or maybe I am overestimating what a guy on £20k per week should be doing to "earn" such a ridiculous sum.
Rather than spend any more on players I suggest Randy Lerner employs a defensive coach to improve this lot - it seems blatant that after 32 (?) games without a clean sheet Lambert  and his team are not up to it.
2

Ah Clive you're not going to suggest poaching Martinez are you

[N'ZMAV]

Vlaar is average.

[SoccerHQ]

I think a big problem is we've been rubbish for years attacking the high ball (ever since Laursen retired really) and as such we're so easy to score against from set pieces.

I've no idea how many we conceded from corners, free kicks but in our nightmare run it seemed every goal was coming from that source.

And to show how rubbish we are at it, TSM who was supposed to be actually good at organising defences was equally as bad and we conceded 20 + goals in 11-12.

Most teams will only concede around 7- 8 goals from corners free kicks during a season so it isn't rocket science to see that if we could find a centre half who actually relishes defending corners then we'll ship less goals and get closer to the average of most other clubs and can start working on how to close down the space in open play.

[Matt Collins]

I don't think we'll buy another defender apart from possibly a back up right back.

I agree Clark must be fourth choice now.

I think Clark and perhaps vlaar have one more year to prove themselves. But a more ruthless manager might have decided to ship both.

It's the one position in the side where I wish he'd just buy a proven premier league player. 

[Dante Lavelli]

I think a big problem is we've been rubbish for years attacking the high ball (ever since Laursen retired really) and as such we're so easy to score against from set pieces.

I've no idea how many we conceded from corners, free kicks but in our nightmare run it seemed every goal was coming from that source.

And to show how rubbish we are at it, TSM who was supposed to be actually good at organising defences was equally as bad and we conceded 20 + goals in 11-12.

Most teams will only concede around 7- 8 goals from corners free kicks during a season so it isn't rocket science to see that if we could find a centre half who actually relishes defending corners then we'll ship less goals and get closer to the average of most other clubs and can start working on how to close down the space in open play.

Statistically we weren't that bad at defending corners, the problem was the quantity we gave away. Hopefully a stonger midfield will mean we can retain possession better and play the game further up the pitch. As a result less corners and freekicks conceded...

Okore's pace might help here too as it means the defensive line can be higher.

[Mazrim]

Doesn't have to be a proven premier league player, just somebody who fits in with the current MO and is a more savvy defender. Somebody like Dragovic for instance.

That said, if somebody like Escott was an option I'd be all for it. There must be money left for a couple of decent purchases. A number 10 and a centre half are still musts in my opinion. Especially the latter.

[Matt Collins]

I just don't see us going into the season with 5 centre halves, unless you include the likes of donacien. I hope the latter doesn't play too much purely because my iPhone can't seem to cope with his name!

[BegbieAV]

 We are better defensively now than when we where playing three at the back, stop giving away silly free kicks around the eighteen yard area and cheap corners we should be ok.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Well we were much better defensively for years under Gregory but we drew a shedload of games which stopped us getting any higher than 6th I think?

That's the crux of it isn't it, if we could defend properly then we'd be winning every week and challenging for the league. Easy peasey.

But would defending better as a unit mean Gabby and Weimann having to track back much more and so meaning Benteke is more isolated upfront and less chances?

Personally I prefer to see us scoring goals and we won enough games in the second half of the season to suggest that's the model worth preserving with as plenty of teams in the league won't have forward lines like we do.

I'd also hope that Luna is better defensively at LB than Bennett is and I'd be amazed if Okore isn't a better centre half than Ciaran Clark so that would mean 50% of our back 4 improving.

Its been mentioned before in this thread, but I think it bears repeating - conceding goals because, for instance, Gabby and Andi are up supporting Benteke, or conceding because Lowton is caught out from getting forward is ok - if we're going to be playing the attacking football most of us want to see, you'll just have to take that risk.  The real problems come when you're also conceding from stupid errors and awful set piece defending, and I hope Lambert and co can sort it out or else our fantastic attack is going to be badly wasted.

EDIT oops, sorry I thought I was in the defending thread

You are now Anyways agreed, some of our defensive issues are due to our style of play. I accept those. Lambert is almost manic in his determination to attack and it is good football to watch.

What I do not accept is the poor set piece errors or poor cohesion at the back. We know that we will have players breaking forward, particularly the full backs, that is fine, good i fact, but other players must immediately see it and cover. that is where we break down a fair bit. Centrally I still do not know what the issue is, all defenders concede but occasionally we condede goals that look like sloppy positioning.

[warleyboy]

Please could we all refrain from calling Mr Vlaar, "Concrete Ron", due to unforeseen circumstances and the fact our defense is lacklustre at best, he will now be known as "Pollyfilla Ron", not very strong but can fill gaps occasionally.

[supertom]

Cueller>Vlaar. (Even given how horrific he was against us last season).

Alpay>Vlaar. (Ron wins on attitude to be fair).

Knight>Vlaar.

Collins-Vlaar.  No score draw. Collins was good his first season, surprisingly so, but probably overperforming, whilst Vlaar has underperformed. But both on their day? It would be a close call.

There I said it. That's where I have Vlaar in the grand scheme of Villa center halfs of the last 10-15 years. A hell of a long way off guys like Martin and Olof. Not as terrible as some either, but in a sort of mediocre group, yet to achieve some stretches of consistency that even those above did at some point.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I think Clark and perhaps vlaar have one more year to prove themselves. But a more ruthless manager might have decided to ship both.

My praise for Pubehead is as rare as us keeping a clean sheet but at least when he realised he'd bought rubbish, he had the common sense and balls (plus money) to replace them. I do wonder if Lambert is too stubborn to replace one of his purchases.

Can somebody confirm if Vlaar is a left or right sided central defender as I'm half sure he prefers the left but was pushed over to the right side to accommodate either Clark or Bennett due to Dunne's injury. Hopefully the right sided Jores can allow Marshmellow Ron to return to his favourite side. Even then I'm still not convinced he's good enough, he's too much of a passenger when what we need is a leader.

[WALTERS WARRIORS]

Cueller>Vlaar. (Even given how horrific he was against us last season).

Alpay>Vlaar. (Ron wins on attitude to be fair).

Knight>Vlaar.

Collins-Vlaar.  No score draw. Collins was good his first season, surprisingly so, but probably overperforming, whilst Vlaar has underperformed. But both on their day? It would be a close call.

There I said it. That's where I have Vlaar in the grand scheme of Villa center halfs of the last 10-15 years. A hell of a long way off guys like Martin and Olof. Not as terrible as some either, but in a sort of mediocre group, yet to achieve some stretches of consistency that even those above did at some point.

I would swap Vlaar for Collins no problem. Collins positioning was suspect but his dominance in the air was very good. Vlaar lacks both .....

[adrenachrome]

I think Clark and perhaps vlaar have one more year to prove themselves. But a more ruthless manager might have decided to ship both.

My praise for Pubehead is as rare as us keeping a clean sheet but at least when he realised he'd bought rubbish, he had the common sense and balls (plus money) to replace them. I do wonder if Lambert is too stubborn to replace one of his purchases.

Can somebody confirm if Vlaar is a left or right sided central defender as I'm half sure he prefers the left but was pushed over to the right side to accommodate either Clark or Bennett due to Dunne's injury. Hopefully the right sided Jores can allow Marshmellow Ron to return to his favourite side. Even then I'm still not convinced he's good enough, he's too much of a passenger when what we need is a leader.

Soccer Wiki sez Ron's preferred foot is the right one' Rudy.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I think Clark and perhaps vlaar have one more year to prove themselves. But a more ruthless manager might have decided to ship both.

My praise for Pubehead is as rare as us keeping a clean sheet but at least when he realised he'd bought rubbish, he had the common sense and balls (plus money) to replace them. I do wonder if Lambert is too stubborn to replace one of his purchases.

Can somebody confirm if Vlaar is a left or right sided central defender as I'm half sure he prefers the left but was pushed over to the right side to accommodate either Clark or Bennett due to Dunne's injury. Hopefully the right sided Jores can allow Marshmellow Ron to return to his favourite side. Even then I'm still not convinced he's good enough, he's too much of a passenger when what we need is a leader.

Soccer Wiki sez Ron's preferred foot is the right one' Rudy.

We're buggered then. Hang on, that Soccer Wiki also says he has Aerial Ability. What am I to believe?