Ongoing Defensive Frailties

[pauliewalnuts]

SSN are showing the goals today.

Well worth recording it and FFing through to see them.

The second one was as comedically calamitous as any goal we conceded last season.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Most people seem to expect a right back to come in, it would be good if said player is equally adept at centre half too, a Micah Richards type player (but obviously not him) that would seem the most sensible approach to me, although God knows who there is in Europe that would fit this profile.

An out and out right back would be good - Lowton can also play CB, and if things don't improve once the season is underway it's possible he could fill that role.

Whenever I've seen Lowton a centre half he doesn't look great, it's a bit like saying Cuellar can play right back, he can, but you wouldn't want to see him there.

Agreed bob, but having watched the last two games Vlaar and Clark don't look great either! Baker was our best CB at Wycombe and Luton for winning the ball in the air. A sound defender alongside him - Okore? (Lowton if necessary) - might be a more effective pairing. Then in comes our full-back!

[Dante Lavelli]

What spooks me is that there does not seem to be the same concern from PL; although of course it's impossible to know whether he's scouring the world for a new CB.

Apologies for selecting what was probably a throw away comment Mister E, but this mentality that the solution to our problems is always to "buy" our way out of it needs to change.  If Villa are to progress we need to (also) maximise other ways of improving the team.  Primarily coaching.

With Okore, Clark and Baker they're all likely to get better as they gain more experience and strength.  With patience they could become good enough.  Thankfully Lambert appears to appreciate this fact (certainly compared to MON) however I think us fans need to sometimes recognise this.

[PaulWinch again]

It's not just about buying players, it's about coaching the ones we currently have. That's my issue, it doesn't look like there is any coaching to address our issues at the moment.

[Monty]

SSN are showing the goals today.

Well worth recording it and FFing through to see them.

The second one was as comedically calamitous as any goal we conceded last season.

Haven't seen the Luton goals, but the penalty concession at home v Southampton will take some beating for me.

[supertom]

You could have two of the best defenders in the world and they could struggle to play together. Sometimes chemistry plays a part. Two players who can naturally read each others game. What we see with Vlaar in tandem with Clark is that there is no cohesion whatsoever. They're like two pandas being prodded into a pen to go and procreate but both would rather sit under a bamboo tree scratching their own bits.

[saunders_heroes]

What spooks me is that there does not seem to be the same concern from PL; although of course it's impossible to know whether he's scouring the world for a new CB.

Apologies for selecting what was probably a throw away comment Mister E, but this mentality that the solution to our problems is always to "buy" our way out of it needs to change.  If Villa are to progress we need to (also) maximise other ways of improving the team.  Primarily coaching.

With Okore, Clark and Baker they're all likely to get better as they gain more experience and strength.  With patience they could become good enough.  Thankfully Lambert appears to appreciate this fact (certainly compared to MON) however I think us fans need to sometimes recognise this.

I've seen nothing from either Clark or Baker to suggest they'll ever become top class centre backs, and Vlaar has been a major disappointment ever since he signed. The 3 of them make ridiculous mistakes time and time again and their comedy defending put our PL status at risk last season and this pre season (so far) suggests they haven't really improved much if at all.
At least one more centreback signing is a must in my opinion.

[supertom]

My guess is that Lambert may well be in need of a center half in January. If Vlaar, Clark and Baker continue to be a liability he may have to. I'm very hopeful about Okore but who knows how he'll settle.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

You could have two of the best defenders in the world and they could struggle to play together. Sometimes chemistry plays a part. Two players who can naturally read each others game. What we see with Vlaar in tandem with Clark is that there is no cohesion whatsoever. They're like two pandas being prodded into a pen to go and procreate but both would rather sit under a bamboo tree scratching their own bits.

Love the analogy tom!
I'm sure the pandas do a bit of grunting to let each other know how they feel. Vlaar and Clark talking to each other could work just as well! ;-)

[villa `cross the mersey]

It's only a friendly, pride in the shirt sounds a bit extreme in that context.

The comedy defending, though, I've had enough of that already!

I would like to think that a "professional" would have enough pride and committment not to wish to lose to a non- league side or maybe I am overestimating what a guy on £20k per week should be doing to "earn" such a ridiculous sum.
Rather than spend any more on players I suggest Randy Lerner employs a defensive coach to improve this lot - it seems blatant that after 32 (?) games without a clean sheet Lambert  and his team are not up to it.
2

[Phil from the upper holte]

SSN are showing the goals today.

Well worth recording it and FFing through to see them.

The second one was as comedically calamitous as any goal we conceded last season.

I watched that at 6am this morning, it pissed me off probably more than it should have, it was appaulling

[Brend'Watkins]

What spooks me is that there does not seem to be the same concern from PL; although of course it's impossible to know whether he's scouring the world for a new CB.

Apologies for selecting what was probably a throw away comment Mister E, but this mentality that the solution to our problems is always to "buy" our way out of it needs to change.  If Villa are to progress we need to (also) maximise other ways of improving the team.  Primarily coaching.

With Okore, Clark and Baker they're all likely to get better as they gain more experience and strength.  With patience they could become good enough.  Thankfully Lambert appears to appreciate this fact (certainly compared to MON) however I think us fans need to sometimes recognise this.

Any player 14 + given the position of CH will have some attribute to suggest that he's capable of that position.  All our existing CH's have certain attributes but not all the attributes for the position. With what I've see last season there's only Baker who attacks a ball in the air from set pieces.  A strong CH has to make the box his responsibility, he has to know who is marking, where his keeper is, where his other defenders are around him.  None of this needs coaching it's straight forward as it's what a CH does. Hopefully Okore has some of this box responsibility about him.  If he hasn't we will struggle.  Clark as I've said many a time isn't a CH. Vlaar, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as he's only had a season and that was mucked about with injury. I think Baker can get better but is injury prone, too injury prone.  We need another CH as I don't think Herd though better in the air than Clark and as good in the air as Vlaar isn't still a good enough stand in.

[Dante Lavelli]

My guess is that Lambert may well be in need of a center half in January. If Vlaar, Clark and Baker continue to be a liability he may have to. I'm very hopeful about Okore but who knows how he'll settle.

That'd be my strategy too.  All our CBs have certain positive qualities but as yet we've not managed to find a pairing which works. 

Clark, Baker and Okore should natuarlly improve with experience/age whereas you'd also hope Vlaar will improve as this will be in his second season in the Premier League/abroad, so all of them deserve the benefit of the doubt at least until christmas.

Sounds strange but they should be given the opportunity to fail, as at the moment it'd be hard to know with certainty which one is the weak link which would need to be sold.

[SoccerHQ]

SSN are showing the goals today.

Well worth recording it and FFing through to see them.

The second one was as comedically calamitous as any goal we conceded last season.

The second goal was comical, I really don't want to see Vlaar and Clark as a combination this season at all. Baker has his faults but I feel the defence looks slightly more secure with him in there.

Posted this in the transfer thread but felt it should be in here aswell:

Yeah as I've said elsewhere Norwich didn't even have the best defensive record when they romped league one or were promoted from the championship, it's not a strength of Lambert's management it's fair to say.

That said would it really be much different to 07/08 (4-4 at Chelsea and 4-4 at Spurs amongst others or 08/09 (5-0 at Liverrool, 3-3 at home to Everton). Conceded plenty of goals that season (and that was with Laursen in there) but our very effective attack got us plenty of wins so I see the same happening here.

In the first half of last season we weren't actually that bad defensively, look at the run from October 20th to December 22nd:

1-0 Fulham
1-1 Norwich
0-1 Sunderland
2-3 Man. United
5-0 Man. City
0-0 Arsenal
1-0 Reading
1-1 QPR
0-0 Stoke
1-3 Liverpool

O.k we were playing some dross in that period but that's a 10 game sample of the season including a few games when we were playing the dreaded 5 at the back. Take away 30 minutes of brilliant individual Hernandez finishing and when we collapsed at City after that ridiculous penalty award and it shows you a spell when we actually weren't conceding a bucketload of goals, 12 goals conceded in 10 games.

Certainly Chelsea completely destroyed that and we've been conceding 2 goals a game on average since.

That said we'll be playing teams who have powderpuff attacks so we can outscore them. For example if the best Crystal Palace can do is resign Kevin Phillips and sign Carlton Cole then I'd be confident even we can keep a clean sheet against them.

[supertom]

The irony about last season was probably our best defensive spell happened over a 6 (inc league cup) game unbeaten spell when we had Herd, Baker and Clark in a back three. They looked very solid in that period. Unfortunately it was followed up with our most horrific spell. Lol. In all honesty the presence of Vlaar probably wouldn't have helped during that horrific run either. He got injured in the Arsenal game, and it almost seemed like we'd suddenly turned a corner with 6 games unbeaten which culminated in a 4-1 win in the cup followed by a 3-1 against Liverpool, both away from home.
Then we had the rug pulled out from us.