Antonio Manuel Luna Rodríguez

[PeterWithesShin]

Again as you seem to be missing the point, I don't think we'll concede as many as last season, but as i've said I think we will concede 50+ then that also doesn't qualify as having a good defence. I also think we'll score at least 55. So, for example, scoring 55 and conceding 54 makes for an entertaining season don't you think?

[saunders_heroes]

Again as you seem to be missing the point, I don't think we'll concede as many as last season, but as i've said I think we will concede 50+ then that also doesn't qualify as having a good defence. I also think we'll score at least 55. So, for example, scoring 55 and conceding 54 makes for an entertaining season don't you think?

Conceding 55 goals might not be a good defence in the grand scheme of things but compared to last season's defence it's f#ckin brilliant.

[RussellC]

I don't think I'd find the slightest bit of entertainment in watching us defend like we did last year.

[Monty]

The point is this:

Teams other than the possession-hoggers focus on either attack or defence as their calculated imbalance. They do this mostly with positioning and choice of midfielders and full-backs (as well as formation, though pretty much everyone plays 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 now). For ourselves, we don't have the best defenders but we do have some very good attackers, so we go pretty much all out trying to play to our strengths. The midfield three does tend to play fairly deep as cover, but with considerable license to get forward.

If we had the kind of defenders who could concede 40-odd goals in the season just by their sheer quality (as, for example, Man Utd have done when Ferdinand and Vidic were at their peak) then we'd have paid Monaco money for them. The same applies if we were positionally very defensive but had a few attacking players who could break down defenders by their sheer quality (more Man City's approach). When defenders are left more exposed because of attacking systems they are always going to make more mistakes individually - look at Barca! - in the same way that defensive teams can look short when they go forward, like we did in that annus horribilis 2011-12. Our lack of attacking threat was a right pain in the annus all year.

At our end of the market don't have the options that the mega-clubs do, so we buy as well as we can and set up the system to play to our strengths. And while that's risky, going for the wins is clearly the best thing to do in a three-points-for-a-win system, because it's better to lose one then win one than to draw two.

[RussellC]

I think we're over-complicating the point. I don't think it's ever a manager's chosen tactic to 'not defend very well, because we've got attackers.'

No-one's expecting our back 4 to suddenly become Top 4 standard, but they were an absolute shambles at times last year.  Vlaar was supposed to be an upgrade on James Collins and, as yet, he hasn't been anywhere near as good as him.

[Dante Lavelli]

No-one's expecting our back 4 to suddenly become Top 4 standard, but they were an absolute shambles at times last year.  Vlaar was supposed to be an upgrade on James Collins and, as yet, he hasn't been anywhere near as good as him.

I suppose we'd hope that would be the case. But I'd bet vlaar is earning less than Collins and only cost Ł3m from memory which is similar to what we paid to buy Collins x years ago. Based on that I'd say its hard and unfair to describe him as an upgrade. I think Lambert wanted a better personality around the place (compared to Collins). If he was a better player he'd be costing a lot more than what we paid.

[Monty]

I think we're over-complicating the point. I don't think it's ever a manager's chosen tactic to 'not defend very well, because we've got attackers.'

No-one's expecting our back 4 to suddenly become Top 4 standard, but they were an absolute shambles at times last year.  Vlaar was supposed to be an upgrade on James Collins and, as yet, he hasn't been anywhere near as good as him.

No, that's not it. It's accepting that we might concede more if we try and score more.

[Dave]

I think we're over-complicating the point. I don't think it's ever a manager's chosen tactic to 'not defend very well, because we've got attackers.'

No, but it is a manager's chosen tactic to put two strikers on the wing (Gabby and Weimann) and then encourage the full backs to support them in attack in an attempt to score more goals.

We've recently had a manager who chose to put Hutton and Heskey on the wings and told them to support the full back in defence rather than encouraging the unit to attack.

The latter choice is likely to be more solid defensively, but you're quite obviously going to sacrifice a bit of attacking flair.

[RussellC]

I'm not disputing the

I think we're over-complicating the point. I don't think it's ever a manager's chosen tactic to 'not defend very well, because we've got attackers.'

No, but it is a manager's chosen tactic to put two strikers on the wing (Gabby and Weimann) and then encourage the full backs to support them in attack in an attempt to score more goals.

We've recently had a manager who chose to put Hutton and Heskey on the wings and told them to support the full back in defence rather than encouraging the unit to attack.

The latter choice is likely to be more solid defensively, but you're quite obviously going to sacrifice a bit of attacking flair.

In theory I agree with what you're saying. However, I don't think our tactics were as responsible for most of the defensive horror-shows of last season as individual defensive errors were.

For example, we conceded a shit-load of goals from set-pieces. This has no correlation to playing 2 wingers and 2 attacking full-backs.

[Monty]

I agree with you there Russell. Some of the individual errors last season were quite unbelievable. However, once again that comes from prioritising attacking over defending, this time in the transfer market. We can only afford to do one really really well - if we could do both we'd be in the CL. They're just going to have to work hard in training and hope that Okore turns out to be brilliant. He's certainly quick enough to make up for a few individual errors.

[RussellC]

I think we're going to need Okore to hit the ground running. All 3 of our CBs spent time in the treatment room last season which meant both Herd and Lowton playing there at various times. We can't afford to do that again this season if we've any hope of climbing the table.

[PeterWithesShin]

Hopefully a years experience, plus some confidence, will help rid a number of the individual errors. I reckon the experience of last season, plus the confidence of coming through it okay in the end will have improved the youngsters both mentally and ability wise.

[RussellC]

I hope so. When people talk about our tactics meaning that we'll concede a lot of goals, it's worth noting that Swansea play a very similar system (with a side put together on a similar budget) and conceded 18 less goals than us in the league last year.

[Monty]

I hope so. When people talk about our tactics meaning that we'll concede a lot of goals, it's worth noting that Swansea play a very similar system (with a side put together on a similar budget) and conceded 18 less goals than us in the league last year.

They don't though. They're much more cautious in possession and use ball-rotation as a form of defence. Besides, they've been doing that consistently, manager-after-manager, for as many years as we've gone from MON to GH to Eck to Lambert. that sort of system takes time to implement - and we're not really implementing that system anyway.

[PeterWithesShin]

I hope so. When people talk about our tactics meaning that we'll concede a lot of goals, it's worth noting that Swansea play a very similar system (with a side put together on a similar budget) and conceded 18 less goals than us in the league last year.

They also only finished 5 points ahead of us. Which considering how many folks spent months saying how poor we were and that we were going to finish bottom means that either a) they aren't actually that good or b) we aren't that bad. Is how I see it anyway.