Antonio Manuel Luna Rodríguez

[saunders_heroes]

But in the real world we're more likely to be on the end of a thrashing than the ones dishing them out. Our defence is still a worry.

...But...the point is that we play a risky attacking style which is as likely to thrash as to get thrashed. How are you not getting the point?

Our defenders make basic mistakes that cost us games. Better defenders might not make those mistakes.

[Monty]

But in the real world we're more likely to be on the end of a thrashing than the ones dishing them out. Our defence is still a worry.

...But...the point is that we play a risky attacking style which is as likely to thrash as to get thrashed. How are you not getting the point?

Our defenders make basic mistakes that cost us games. Better defenders might not make those mistakes.

Well, that would either cost a lot of money or you have to use the approach we're using, buying players like Okore.

[saunders_heroes]

But in the real world we're more likely to be on the end of a thrashing than the ones dishing them out. Our defence is still a worry.

...But...the point is that we play a risky attacking style which is as likely to thrash as to get thrashed. How are you not getting the point?

Our defenders make basic mistakes that cost us games. Better defenders might not make those mistakes.

Well, that would either cost a lot of money or you have to use the approach we're using, buying players like Okore.

I like the look of Okore, but he's young and bound to make mistakes. Not been impressed with Luna so far, but its early days. Strengthening the defence should have been the number 1 priority this summer but I'm not sure if we've done enough, yet.

[PeterWithesShin]

If we had a good attack and defence we'd be CL contenders. We're not so i'll settle for consecutive scores along the lines of 5-2, 2-2, 1-5, 6-0, 3-3, 0-4 etc rather than a  bunch of 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 and so on. I'm old and I want to be entertained.

I don't see anything entertaining in getting thrashed every few weeks. It's embarrassing.

We conceded 4 or more the same number of times last season as we did in 07/08 when we scored 71 and conceded 51. Wasn't 07/08 season entertaining?

[Mister E]

Our defenders make basic mistakes that cost us games. Better defenders might not make those mistakes.

I do agree with this; and the Sunday Times had their pre-season 'homage to the Sky Four' today in the form of their predictions: they had us 15th (behind the mighty Fulham, and others). The reason? - in their words "defence, defence, defence."

Unless Vlaar, Lowton, Bennett and Baker have dramatically improved (and I haven't seen massive evidence of that yet), we will rely on the MF three to work incredibly hard covering our defensive frailties.

I am really looking forward to the season - I think we'll play some great football - but I do not see evidence of having dealt with the defensive issues of the last three previous seasons.

[PeterWithesShin]

Stoke conceded only 2 more goals than Champions Manure last season. Most people would prefer to gouge their eyes out than watch Stoke last season. Having a good defence isn't the be all.

[dave.woodhall]

If we had a good attack and defence we'd be CL contenders. We're not so i'll settle for consecutive scores along the lines of 5-2, 2-2, 1-5, 6-0, 3-3, 0-4 etc rather than a  bunch of 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 and so on. I'm old and I want to be entertained.

I don't see anything entertaining in getting thrashed every few weeks. It's embarrassing.

How did you miss the bit about winning 5-2 and 6-0 as well?

But in the real world we're more likely to be on the end of a thrashing than the ones dishing them out. Our defence is still a worry.

Why is it more likely?

[saunders_heroes]

If we had a good attack and defence we'd be CL contenders. We're not so i'll settle for consecutive scores along the lines of 5-2, 2-2, 1-5, 6-0, 3-3, 0-4 etc rather than a  bunch of 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 and so on. I'm old and I want to be entertained.

I don't see anything entertaining in getting thrashed every few weeks. It's embarrassing.

How did you miss the bit about winning 5-2 and 6-0 as well?

But in the real world we're more likely to be on the end of a thrashing than the ones dishing them out. Our defence is still a worry.

Why is it more likely?

Just an opinion based on what I saw last season, Dave. Nothing more than that.

[saunders_heroes]

If we had a good attack and defence we'd be CL contenders. We're not so i'll settle for consecutive scores along the lines of 5-2, 2-2, 1-5, 6-0, 3-3, 0-4 etc rather than a  bunch of 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 and so on. I'm old and I want to be entertained.

I don't see anything entertaining in getting thrashed every few weeks. It's embarrassing.

We conceded 4 or more the same number of times last season as we did in 07/08 when we scored 71 and conceded 51. Wasn't 07/08 season entertaining?

Yeah and let in 69 league goals. I don't see what's so entertaining about being cannon fodder for the opposition.

[PeterWithesShin]

Was 07/08 entertaining?

[dave.woodhall]

If we had a good attack and defence we'd be CL contenders. We're not so i'll settle for consecutive scores along the lines of 5-2, 2-2, 1-5, 6-0, 3-3, 0-4 etc rather than a  bunch of 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 and so on. I'm old and I want to be entertained.

I don't see anything entertaining in getting thrashed every few weeks. It's embarrassing.

How did you miss the bit about winning 5-2 and 6-0 as well?

But in the real world we're more likely to be on the end of a thrashing than the ones dishing them out. Our defence is still a worry.

Why is it more likely?

Just an opinion based on what I saw last season, Dave. Nothing more than that.

It was certainly not based on young players gaining an extra season's experience, a full pre-season working with the manager, a more solid midfield and two new defenders.

[Ian.]

Was 07/08 entertaining?

It was, but so was last season from February. We can only get better.

[saunders_heroes]

Was 07/08 entertaining?

Yes. We scored 71 league goals and conceded just 51 and finished 6th. Not bad. Much better than last season's humiliations.

[PeterWithesShin]

Was 07/08 entertaining?

Yes. We scored 71 league goals and conceded just 51 and finished 6th. Not bad. Much better than last season's humiliations.

So we're agreed then that a good defence isn't a necessity for an enjoyable and/or entertaining season. Which was my original point.

[saunders_heroes]

If we had a good attack and defence we'd be CL contenders. We're not so i'll settle for consecutive scores along the lines of 5-2, 2-2, 1-5, 6-0, 3-3, 0-4 etc rather than a  bunch of 0-0, 1-0, 0-1 and so on. I'm old and I want to be entertained.

I don't see anything entertaining in getting thrashed every few weeks. It's embarrassing.

How did you miss the bit about winning 5-2 and 6-0 as well?

But in the real world we're more likely to be on the end of a thrashing than the ones dishing them out. Our defence is still a worry.

Why is it more likely?

Just an opinion based on what I saw last season, Dave. Nothing more than that.

It was certainly not based on young players gaining an extra season's experiene, a full pre-season working with the manager, a more solid midfield and two new defenders.

All well and good, but I still don't think the defence is strong enough.