Leandro Bacuna - Sold

[PeterWithesShin]

True but there are degrees of slating. Trying to line himself up for a move to pretty unrealistic clubs after being utterly, utterly shite this season and appearing to not give a shite would line him up for a pretty heavy slating. I think as football fans we just want a player to sign, do their best, preferably contribute something, not talk to the media about transfers and only move on if the Villa accept a bid for them. Surely not too much to ask but sadly this happens less and less these days.

For the most part that sounds like Westwood. Who gets slated a lot on here.

Don't get me wrong, i'm as guilty as anyone for doing it, i've done it before and will no doubt do it again to players.

[nigel]

It's a knob comment to make, but at the same time I want players at the club that want to better themselves rather than just be happy picking up their wages at the Villa regardless of how we're doing, whether they are playing etc. Ideally though I want them to do it with us first and foremost.

Agree.
All he's said is that he wants to improve over the next two years, then, if the opportunity arose, why not.
If he gets a move to Ajax or PSV then he would have improved significantly, which, surely, is good for us? 

[oswald funkletrumpet]

It's a knob comment to make, but at the same time I want players at the club that want to better themselves rather than just be happy picking up their wages at the Villa regardless of how we're doing, whether they are playing etc. Ideally though I want them to do it with us first and foremost.

Agree.
All he's said is that he wants to improve over the next two years, then, if the opportunity arose, why not.
If he gets a move to Ajax or PSV then he would have improved significantly, which, surely, is good for us?

improve over the next two years 

after he has spent the last 3 getting shitter

[nigel]

It's a knob comment to make, but at the same time I want players at the club that want to better themselves rather than just be happy picking up their wages at the Villa regardless of how we're doing, whether they are playing etc. Ideally though I want them to do it with us first and foremost.

Agree.
All he's said is that he wants to improve over the next two years, then, if the opportunity arose, why not.
If he gets a move to Ajax or PSV then he would have improved significantly, which, surely, is good for us?

improve over the next two years 

after he has spent the last 3 getting shitter

At least he realises that he must improve.
I couldn't read anything in that interview that indicated that he was blowing smoke up his own arse.

[ChicagoLion]

Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.

[supertom]

Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.

This. He's coasted for 2 years now, having started reasonably promisingly. Too many of our players have done this, particularly many who weren't brilliant to start with who only managed to get worse.

[PeterWithe]

As Uncle Junior wisely said.

'And I want to fuck Angie Dickinson, lets see who gets lucky first'.

[PeterWithesShin]

Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.

This. He's coasted for 2 years now, having started reasonably promisingly. Too many of our players have done this, particularly many who weren't brilliant to start with who only managed to get worse.

How has he coasted? Or rather, how do we know he's coasting? For all we know he could be working his bollocks off in training in an attempt to get his form/confidence back. Which can't be an easy thing to do when he's in and out a crap team and getting stuck playing in different positions.

He may be a right lazy scrote with a woeful attitude in training, or he may work his balls off to improve himself and us, none of us know as we aren't there so I don't get how folks state stuff as though it's fact about his attitude, what he thinks of himself, that he's coasting etc when we don't have the slightest clue if it's true.

[ChicagoLion]

Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.

This. He's coasted for 2 years now, having started reasonably promisingly. Too many of our players have done this, particularly many who weren't brilliant to start with who only managed to get worse.

How has he coasted? Or rather, how do we know he's coasting? For all we know he could be working his bollocks off in training in an attempt to get his form/confidence back. Which can't be an easy thing to do when he's in and out a crap team and getting stuck playing in different positions.

He may be a right lazy scrote with a woeful attitude in training, or he may work his balls off to improve himself and us, none of us know as we aren't there so I don't get how folks state stuff as though it's fact about his attitude, what he thinks of himself, that he's coasting etc when we don't have the slightest clue if it's true.

We can only go on what we see on the pitch. His smiling when he has messed up, his general demeanour, body language and consistantly below par performances is enough to draw some less than flattering conclusions. Now we can add he thinks he should be playing Champios League football.
Like quite a few, I really do not like Bacuna at all, I think his attitude stinks.

[Steve67]

PWS, watch the Stoke City goals. The half arsed attempts that he makes.  It's happening time and time again. Don't watch the goals, just watch him. Shockingly embarrassing player.

[PeterWithesShin]

So as I said, it's not fact at all. Loads of sportsmen smile when they fuck up, watch the darts and see how many smile when they miss a double as an example.

Didn't read to me that he thinks he should be playing in the CL, just that within a couple of years he'd hope to. Maybe people would be happier if he, or any player, said "As long as I get paid i'll happily sit on the bench in the Championship and see out my contract, Zog is my hero!"?

There will be very few players that have reached playing at PL level that won't be full of self confidence in their own ability. They need it to get this far. I bet the vast majority even playing in Division 3 think they are better than they are and believe they could play at a higher level.

[PeterWithesShin]

PWS, watch the Stoke City goals. The half arsed attempts that he makes.  It's happening time and time again. Don't watch the goals, just watch him. Shockingly embarrassing player.

Nowhere have I defended his ability, simply pointing out that his self belief is no different to nearly every other professional player and that I don't why people state stuff as fact that they are simply guessing at.

[PeterWithesShin]

If it helps clarify, I quite like him and have said so before, but he has been utter gash for most of this season. Especially in defence, although in a bit fairness to him, he is a winger. I bet Daley/Walters/Young/Morley etc would have caused us all to have nightmares if it was decided to stick him as a fullback on a regular basis. And yes, I know that even as a winger Bacuna isn't anywhere near their level, they are used as examples.

[supertom]

We don't see on the training pitch granted. And granted it may be a confidence matter but some players grab a chance and kick on, regardless of how the team itself is doing. Some players maintain some consistency. Some players you can see an improvement season on season. For me Bacuna, from what I've seen on the pitch is a player who isn't short of confidence, more the skill required and he's not worked enough on his game. We can blame coaching but some players need to be willing to give more to improve as players. Not that quoting the Birmingham Mail would stand up in a court of law but Bacuna was openly questioned by Garde in the press. Garde hasn't been shy about lamenting our squad's application either. So I'm not just pissing in the wind. But like I say, I'm not gonna take too much notice of the media but Leo doesn't help himself sometimes between chillaxing on a sunlounger or angling for a move. These things will be taken out of context, it's football fan forum law.

Bacuna and Westwood are examples of players who very quickly hit a brick wall having shown flashes of potential. They've since almost fallen into the team, time and time again without having to do much to warrant their place. To me that's coasting. It's not all on them, it's of course down to the way the club has been run, the squad accumulated, the managers who have come in, but there's no danger of Bacuna giving the impression that he's giving his absolute all for the club. No danger at all. Facts or not he's got to go.
Leo also came into the club billed as a utility man, yet he's been mostly poor in every position. In fact he's only ever played well as a right back in a brief run in his first season and the odd game here and there since (usually in games where we're inexplicably comfortable in defence). Seeing him lose runners consistently and also fail to make too much effort to track back is a sight I don't want to see next season. And yes to be fair when it comes to standing idly while we're getting shredded to pieces at the back, he's certainly not alone. He's got to go though. That's definitely a (Benitez impression) FACT.

[villadelph]

Just read his interview mentioning playing in the Champions League for PSV or Ajax in two years time.

Shit for brains this kid..