Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2013, 04:02:56 PM
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May as well start a thread on him as it seems genuine.
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Welcome. Strange as it may sound I love us signing players I know nothing about. I wonder if one day Lambert will sign someone i've heard of?
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He looks a big chap on their website.
Yes, welcome Leandro.
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Welcome! It is genuine it's on FC Groningen website.
*Link expired
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Edit: Beaten to it by Goldie.7
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The futures bright,the futures Villa!!!Lambert has played a blinder so far,got to admit half way through last season I was 1 of the haters but he has now proved why we were right to keep him.UTV.
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Seems ideal- box to midfielder , chips in with a few goals and can play either side wing back or out wide - a much better option than the likes of bannan or Holman.
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6'2 as well. We need a couple of bigger lads in there. Welcome to the revolution Leandro
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According to Dutch football fans on Twitter, he is almost James Milner like. In that he is quite versatile but is best in a central role. Due to his versatility, he has been played out of position quite a bit which has slowed his progress.
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Bloody hell they aren't hanging about this year are they!
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Edit: Beaten to it by Goldie.7
;)
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Welcome. Strange as it may sound I love us signing players I know nothing about.
Although there is an element of risk to it, yes so do i.
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One thing with Lambert's signings is they are not always universally rated. I heard some pretty unfavorable reviews on Benteke, Westwood & Lowton before they signed. Yet they have delivered big time.
So hearing some dutch fans voice their surprise doesnt worry me too much
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Welcome. Strange as it may sound I love us signing players I know nothing about.
Although there is an element of risk to it, yes so do i.
I guess for me it's because when you sign players you know about, say a James Collins type, you know exactly what you are getting. With these unknown (to me) youngsters you never know if one of them is going to be a superstar.
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Bloody hell they aren't hanging about this year are they!
I wonder if he tried to bring these in during the January transfer window but could'nt. It would explain why only Sylla came in permantley.
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From the Groningen website:
(http://www.fcgroningen.nl/typo3temp/pics/2_c5746d5ca0.jpg)
I wonder who that disappointed defender is?
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We've signed Jores Okore now as well according to our twitter feed. I'm always bored by speculation but when the deals done I then have to find out about these players and it's quite good fun.
Again, nice to get deals done early and in a dignified and professional manner.
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blimey Villa....great work !!
UTV
the Doc
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Welcome Leandro.
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I'm glad we have a real artist in the midfield, proper box-to-box.
Good stuff.
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This is a bit like opening birthday and christmas presents at once while on speed . what will we talk about in July and August ?
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This is a bit like opening birthday and christmas presents at once while on speed . what will we talk about in July and August ?
that's what i said earlier. In a funny way we might have fuck all to do in August on the transfer front. It will seem like MON all over again ;)
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Another 6'+ player!
We'll have the youngest and tallest team in the Prem ;D
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This is a bit like opening birthday and christmas presents at once while on speed . what will we talk about in July and August ?
that's what i said earlier. In a funny way we might have fuck all to do in August on the transfer front. It will seem like MON all over again ;)
Lambert said he wanted all his squad in by the time they go to Germany fro the training camp. 7th July isn't it.
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Sky Sports News reckon he's signed.
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This is a bit like opening birthday and christmas presents at once while on speed . what will we talk about in July and August ?
that's what i said earlier. In a funny way we might have fuck all to do in August on the transfer front. It will seem like MON all over again ;)
Lambert said he wanted all his squad in by the time they go to Germany fro the training camp. 7th July isn't it.
Has to be the best way to do it too!
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Good stuff. Sounds an ideal sort of player for us. Probably a useful option to fit in over several positions depending on form/injuries etc. Kind of an upgrade on Holman I'd guess. I fully trust Lambert and the scouts any how. They've been mostly right so far.
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Jaysus, I can't keep up!!
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All this activity must be shouting a clear message to CB - why the feck would you want to go anywhere else, look what is being built here.
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All this activity must be shouting a clear message to CB - why the feck would you want to go anywhere else, look what is being built here.
Correct, and furthermore if we can keep Gary Gardner fit what an environment for him to properly kick off his senior career!
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Think this is more of a punt than Okore, squad filler this season. You're more than welcome anyhow Leandro. UTV. Good day.
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Could somebody post the translation from the FC Groningen website please? I keep getting an error message.
Ta
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Welcome Leandro.
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Confirmed.
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Aston Villa FC @AVFCOfficial 7m
BREAKING NEWS: Dutch U21 midfielder Leandro Bacuna has signed for Villa from Groningen on a three-year deal. http://bit.ly/10fuqBF #AVFC
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Paul Lambert believes that Leandro Bacuna's energy and versatility will be "a real asset" next season as the Dutch Under-21 international completed a move from FC Groningen.
The 21-year-old wide midfield player put pen to paper on a three-year deal to 2016 and manager Lambert insists he will fit well into his young, emerging side.
"Leandro's energy and versatility will be really good for us," said Lambert.
"He's a good player, he has bags of energy and he will make an impact.
"He's another player we believe will do well for us. He has played in big games and he has lots of experience for a player so young."
Bacuna is an attacking midfield player from Groningen. He made his debut for his hometown team FC Groningen in August 2009, coming on as a substitute against PSV Eindhoven. He has played 126 times for the Euroborg-based club in all competitions, scoring 17 times.
In the 2012/13 season he started 30 times and came on for seven more appearances for Groningen and scored five goals. In 2011/12 he played 33 times with 28 starts and scored seven goals.
He has also played for Holland's prestigious under-21 team 10 times, scoring once against Bulgaria in Maastricht in June 2012.
"It feels great. It's a new beginning for me and I'm looking forward to being part of this young, hungry team we have at Villa," Bacuna said.
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Ive found an issue with this player, i texted my brother on the signing and the predictive text on my smart phone turns Bacuna into Vagina
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/bac_zps90d67862.jpg)
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I've got to admit I'm dissappointed. He's gone from being unheard of, to a rumour, to officially signed and now photographed in a shirt, yet no-one has managed to post a youtube montage to some eurodance beep beep music. This is not the way it works!
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/bac_zps90d67862.jpg)
Best of luck to him with giving up the fags too.
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I've got to admit I'm dissappointed. He's gone from being unheard of, to a rumour, to officially signed and now photographed in a shirt, yet no-one has managed to post a youtube montage to some eurodance beep beep music. This is not the way it works!
I tried but I couldn't copy and paste the link quick enough to beat Lambert.
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Another one who has really good technique, we're going to be an excellent sie once all these lads settle, having a squad full of players who are good on the ball, work hard and can grow together is really exciting, much happier with this than with signing cast offs and players from the relegated sides.
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yep, and we've also gone and got deals done for players that the other clubs didn't want to lose.
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Reminds me a bit of Antonio Valencia from the youtube video I saw.
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Welcome Leandro, this is gonna be a much younger squad than even last season.
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Another one who has really good technique, we're going to be an excellent sie once all these lads settle, having a squad full of players who are good on the ball, work hard and can grow together is really exciting, much happier with this than with signing cast offs and players from the relegated sides.
We also seem to have some tremendous athletes in the squad. I think it's going to be a nightmare for some players facing up to people like Sylla, Okore, Gabby and (hopefully) Benteke next season.
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My guess is that Lambert is content with the 11 that played well at the end of last season, confident that them alone would get 14-16th. With that confidence I'd imagine that these players will be considered squad players rather than first teamers.
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My guess is that Lambert is content with the 11 that played well at the end of last season, confident that them alone would get 14-16th. With that confidence I'd imagine that these players will be considered squad players rather than first teamers.
I don't think he was content with the defence - okore will be in the first team i believe on day one.
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@MatKendrick: Bacuna would love to become a Dutch version of Lampard. "Players like that fight and show themselves and I’m a type of player like that."
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Another one who has really good technique, we're going to be an excellent sie once all these lads settle, having a squad full of players who are good on the ball, work hard and can grow together is really exciting, much happier with this than with signing cast offs and players from the relegated sides.
We also seem to have some tremendous athletes in the squad. I think it's going to be a nightmare for some players facing up to people like Sylla, Okore, Gabby and (hopefully) Benteke next season.
If you watch that video people have posted of Okore, he's some athlete, you're right there.
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Another one who has really good technique, we're going to be an excellent sie once all these lads settle, having a squad full of players who are good on the ball, work hard and can grow together is really exciting, much happier with this than with signing cast offs and players from the relegated sides.
We also seem to have some tremendous athletes in the squad. I think it's going to be a nightmare for some players facing up to people like Sylla, Okore, Gabby and (hopefully) Benteke next season.
If you watch that video people have posted of Okore, he's some athlete, you're right there.
The missus has taken the i-pad to the hairdressers, so I will watch it when she gets back. Didn't want to torrment myself by watching it before he'd signed.
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Have to say, you were right to wait Percy. The video of him bearing in mind it is an away game at Chelsea, makes you realise why there is so much fuss. Looks a total beast of a player.
This Bacuna fella looks a real athlete and good player too. The ability to be flexible in formation is something Lambert was famed for at Norwich, I think personnel dictated much of last season. Now he is giving himself as many options as he can.
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By Mat Kendrick
Leandro Bacuna would love to become Aston Villa’s answer to Chelsea’s Frank Lampard.
Bacuna, who has arrived on a three-year deal, claims the Chelsea legend is the English player he most admires.
“I’m a player who plays box-to-box, I like to run and I look to shoot,” said Bacuna, who has joined for an undisclosed fee from Dutch club Groningen.
“Conditioning is a big thing, too, and I look forward to doing my best for Villa.
“As far as heroes are concerned, I have a lot of heroes, people like Messi and Ronaldo. But they are in a different league. Players such as Frank Lampard, they fight and they show themselves and I’m a type of player like that.
“I’m fully focused to show myself at my new club. My mentality is that you start at the bottom and you show yourself. This is what I intend to do.”
Bacuna, who is 21 and is a Dutch under-21 international, is excited to be joining Paul Lambert’s emerging young claret and blue squad and is relishing the challenge of proving himself in the Premier League.
“It feels great,” he added. “It’s a new beginning for me, a new step and I’m looking forward to being part of this young, hungry team we have at Villa.
“This is a dream come true for me and also for my parents who are delighted for me. It’s a tremendous league to be a part of, the Premier League, and we want to show that Aston Villa can take its place among the top teams.
“I’m really excited to come here. Villa Park looks magnificent and the training facilities at Bodymoor Heath are first class. I’m really impressed with the set-up here and I’m proud to be a part of this club.
“The manager is trying to create a new generation, to build something here and make a lot of young guys show what they can do. I’m up for the challenge.
“For every player who’s coming in, it’s good to find themselves in a team and an environment such as this. We will get the opportunity to show that we want to play and what we can do. It’s always good to try to better yourself.”
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Somebody make Lambo stop! I can't take all this positivity...
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I am glowing from head to toe. We are starting the process which Man Utd used many years ago, with a young talented team growing together. Players like Ireland will never exist at Villa Park again as long as PL is in charge. This is a revolution and I am very excited ......
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@MatKendrick: Bacuna would love to become a Dutch version of Lampard. "Players like that fight and show themselves and I’m a type of player like that."
Nah dont need a dutch version of Lampard that I want a more Rafael van der Vaart, Seedorf or Davids...Total football Lambo style!
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@MatKendrick: Bacuna would love to become a Dutch version of Lampard. "Players like that fight and show themselves and I’m a type of player like that."
Nah dont need a dutch version of Lampard that I want a more Rafael van der Vaart, Seedorf or Davids...Total football Lambo style!
Yeah, why want someone who scores over 200 goals from midfield and has won every trophy going.
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Huh?
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@MatKendrick: Bacuna would love to become a Dutch version of Lampard. "Players like that fight and show themselves and I’m a type of player like that."
Nah dont need a dutch version of Lampard that I want a more Rafael van der Vaart, Seedorf or Davids...Total football Lambo style!
Yeah, why want someone who scores over 200 goals from midfield and has won every trophy going.
yeh, Lampard's shit isn't he? Why would we ever want somebody with those kind of stats.
I get opinions and all that, but I really, really do not get people who don't rate Lampard.
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@MatKendrick: Bacuna would love to become a Dutch version of Lampard. "Players like that fight and show themselves and I’m a type of player like that."
Nah dont need a dutch version of Lampard that I want a more Rafael van der Vaart, Seedorf or Davids...Total football Lambo style!
Yeah, why want someone who scores over 200 goals from midfield and has won every trophy going.
Yeah whos better Lampard VDV Davids or Seedorf. For me Seedorf is number 1
And what im saying is dutch players are dutch players so pointless comparing to an english 'one off' no one is like lamps certainly not dutch players as they are far better technically. Lamps just has an instinct and work ethic as well as great shooting and dedication -if thats what the idea is then yeah BUT for me id rather we signed the new seedorf !!
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@MatKendrick: Bacuna would love to become a Dutch version of Lampard. "Players like that fight and show themselves and I’m a type of player like that."
Nah dont need a dutch version of Lampard that I want a more Rafael van der Vaart, Seedorf or Davids...Total football Lambo style!
Yeah, why want someone who scores over 200 goals from midfield and has won every trophy going.
yeh, Lampard's shit isn't he? Why would we ever want somebody with those kind of stats.
I get opinions and all that, but I really, really do not get people who don't rate Lampard.
Well, he's far too fat, that's the problem with Frank.
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Seedorf is what Bacuna wants to be like i would imagine or maybe Davids? The Lampard thing is just so people understand he wants to be a top premier league player. Lampard is the best midfielder of english origin in premier league history only scholes can come close. This is both fact and my opinion.
Seedorf is a world class player won the Champions League 4 times 3 different clubs you can score as many goals as you like frank you aint never gonna be as good as Clarence we all know this!
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Seedorf is what Bacuna wants to be like i would imagine or maybe Davids? The Lampard thing is just so people understand he wants to be a top premier league player. Lampard is the best midfielder of english origin in premier league history only scholes can come close. This is both fact and my opinion.
Seedorf is a world class player won the Champions League 4 times 3 different clubs you can score as many goals as you like frank you aint never gonna be as good as Clarence we all know this!
seeing as he didn't even mention Seedorf have you through some form of telepathy or witchcraft got into his head and are now enlightening us all with what he's actually thinking?
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Not only does my smart phone think Bacuna is spelt Vagina, but my two year old daughter calls him Bacuna Matata. He is already a legend in our house
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wow, what I would have given to have "fat Frank " in our team.
I hate to look in the mirror and think, Fuck and he is fat !!!
When he moved from Wet Spam there was talk about us bidding, we can only dream.
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Steamer, i remember when we were linked with him, and was gutted that nothing happened. Every season it seemed even worse!
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Welcome to Aston Villa Leandro.
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Do you reckon this could be the end of KEA as well as Holman ?
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For Holman, yes
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Blimey, Brice, turn it in!
Signed him and all have we? I might do an unfortunate sex wee in my boxers if we aren't careful.
And nobody wants to sit in that all the way back to London.
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Wilkkomen
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@MatKendrick: Bacuna would love to become a Dutch version of Lampard. "Players like that fight and show themselves and I’m a type of player like that."
If he becomes half the player Lampard was/is we'll still have a great player on our hands.
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He could be one to potentially pop up with a few goals. I'd expect him to fit in when one of Sylla, Westy, or Delph is out injured/suspended/off for. KEA still has a future here. I can't see Lambo giving up on him. He'll be useful next season, and the more confidence we play with as a team, the better for him to settle in.
Perhaps one more option for CM, maybe Murphy, and we're set in midfield and attack I reckon (assuming Helenius is finalised as expected).
Add Cresswell and a sub keeper and we'll be in good nick.
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Has anyone seen the AVTV interviews with bacuna and Okore? They both seem like level-headed young lads but I'm a bit concerned by their apparent desire to "show themselves". Bacuna in particular seems obsessed with it.
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Has anyone seen the AVTV interviews with bacuna and Okore? They both seem like level-headed young lads but I'm a bit concerned by their apparent desire to "show themselves". Bacuna in particular seems obsessed with it.
Here's hoping he's no flasher in the pan.
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Has anyone seen the AVTV interviews with bacuna and Okore? They both seem like level-headed young lads but I'm a bit concerned by their apparent desire to "show themselves". Bacuna in particular seems obsessed with it.
Gronigen is not that far from Amsterdam. Bacuna might want his own window with a red light behind him ........
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He could be one to potentially pop up with a few goals. I'd expect him to fit in when one of Sylla, Westy, or Delph is out injured/suspended/off for. KEA still has a future here. I can't see Lambo giving up on him. He'll be useful next season, and the more confidence we play with as a team, the better for him to settle in.
Perhaps one more option for CM, maybe Murphy, and we're set in midfield and attack I reckon (assuming Helenius is finalised as expected).
Add Cresswell and a sub keeper and we'll be in good nick.
what about gards and herdy? Another 2 midfielders we can't forget about certainly looking competitive now
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Lambert doesn't see Herd as a midfielder. Gardner's like a new signing himself after all this time - with the right players around him it could be interesting to see if he can finally fulfil his potential.
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Welcome Leandro.
I'm starting to lose count now....!
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I have never heard of him and, with Lambert around, I find that frankly a little exciting. I hope he's the best signing since Benteke.
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He could be one to potentially pop up with a few goals. I'd expect him to fit in when one of Sylla, Westy, or Delph is out injured/suspended/off for. KEA still has a future here. I can't see Lambo giving up on him. He'll be useful next season, and the more confidence we play with as a team, the better for him to settle in.
Perhaps one more option for CM, maybe Murphy, and we're set in midfield and attack I reckon (assuming Helenius is finalised as expected).
Add Cresswell and a sub keeper and we'll be in good nick.
As it stands I don't really see us having a like for like replacement for Westwood if he gets injured, so if we are to bring in another midfielder it may be someone more in that mould.
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He could be one to potentially pop up with a few goals. I'd expect him to fit in when one of Sylla, Westy, or Delph is out injured/suspended/off for. KEA still has a future here. I can't see Lambo giving up on him. He'll be useful next season, and the more confidence we play with as a team, the better for him to settle in.
Perhaps one more option for CM, maybe Murphy, and we're set in midfield and attack I reckon (assuming Helenius is finalised as expected).
Add Cresswell and a sub keeper and we'll be in good nick.
As it stands I don't really see us having a like for like replacement for Westwood if he gets injured, so if we are to bring in another midfielder it may be someone more in that mould.
I actually think KEA will provide that cover. As could, dare I say it, Bannan for a one off game, one thing he did impress me with was his workrate last season, and he worked his nads off for Scotland the other night.
Anyhow, we currently have
Westwood
Delph
Sylla
KEA
Gardner
Bannan
Bacuna
I think 1 more comes and 1 will leave. Probably Bannan actually. But I would understand not signing anyone else in there until late August now and see how this lot gel together.
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Welcome Leandro and the best of luck... now can we have a left back please, pretty please?
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He could be one to potentially pop up with a few goals. I'd expect him to fit in when one of Sylla, Westy, or Delph is out injured/suspended/off for. KEA still has a future here. I can't see Lambo giving up on him. He'll be useful next season, and the more confidence we play with as a team, the better for him to settle in.
Perhaps one more option for CM, maybe Murphy, and we're set in midfield and attack I reckon (assuming Helenius is finalised as expected).
Add Cresswell and a sub keeper and we'll be in good nick.
As it stands I don't really see us having a like for like replacement for Westwood if he gets injured, so if we are to bring in another midfielder it may be someone more in that mould.
I actually think KEA will provide that cover. As could, dare I say it, Bannan for a one off game, one thing he did impress me with was his workrate last season, and he worked his nads off for Scotland the other night.
KEA could cover for Westwood, though I don't know whether he is good enough on the ball to play that role. I think Westwood's importance to the team was highlighted when he was cup tied for the games against Bradford. Granted KEA wasn't there either, but we missed Westwood in those games and Bannan showed why he shouldn't be plaing in that position.
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We're building competition in all positions now which is great. Never heard of him but I've no reason to doubt Lambert's ability to spot a player. Welcome aboard.
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Welcome to Villa, Leandro. May you make a position your own and inspire the Villa to achieve beyond our dreams.
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Welcome Leandro, live the dream for us.
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Lambert doesn't see Herd as a midfielder. Gardner's like a new signing himself after all this time - with the right players around him it could be interesting to see if he can finally fulfil his potential.
Quite right too. I see him as a championship player at best.
Gardner's the hope. But I'd put him on loan unless he's outstanding in pre season.
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I think we're done in midfield.
Westwood, Sylla, Delph, KEA, Bacuna, Gardner, Johnson - With Carruthers probably deserving a look as well. I've also ignored Bannan because I think he's off but I'd be happy to keep him as well.
If we finalise Helenius we're pretty much done in attack.
which means some cover at full back and a young keeper to battle for the spot on the bench with Seigrist and I'll be happy.
After that I think we're only really needing to look for the exceptional talents, if Will Hughes was interested, for example.
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I'm an old softy me but, I loved it when he said in interview"my parents are very proud" I took that to mean his move to the Villa.
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I think we're done in midfield.
Westwood, Sylla, Delph, KEA, Bacuna, Gardner, Johnson - With Carruthers probably deserving a look as well. I've also ignored Bannan because I think he's off but I'd be happy to keep him as well.
You forgot Holman.
I reckon it might be worth sending Johnson on loan until maybe January. Gardner might benefit from some playing time as well to get him back into the swing of things so maybe a couple of months away somewhere would do him good as well.
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I think we're done in midfield.
Westwood, Sylla, Delph, KEA, Bacuna, Gardner, Johnson - With Carruthers probably deserving a look as well. I've also ignored Bannan because I think he's off but I'd be happy to keep him as well.
You forgot Holman.
I reckon it might be worth sending Johnson on loan until maybe January. Gardner might benefit from some playing time as well to get him back into the swing of things so maybe a couple of months away somewhere would do him good as well.
The word you're looking for is ignored. I think he'll be off. We're building a side where technique is important, Gabby will get away with it for the time being because he can be very effective even though his first touch is woeful (but this is why he's used out wide) but I don't think Holman will unless he moves into being a backup for the 'wide forwards'.
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Leandro Bacuna joined the early summer influx of promising foreign youngsters when he arrived at Villa from FC Groningen last night.
Michiel Jongsma, an expert on Dutch football, gives Mat Kendrick the lowdown on the Holland under-21 international midfielder.
Tell us about how and when Bacuna first burst on to the scene in Holland...
Bacuna was handed his debut quite surprisingly aged 18 and nine days. He is a youth product of FC Groningen. He was first handed a role as an attacking midfielder and impressed under Ron Jans.
He played 20 games in his debut season, most of them as a starter. He’s now 21 and has already played 109 league games (in a 34-game league) and scored 14 times.
He has nine caps at under-21 level. Bacuna was selected for the preliminary squad of the Euro Under-21s, but missed the cut.
We hear Bacuna is quite versatile – what is his best position?
Bacuna originally broke through as an attacking midfielder or a winger, but that was mainly due to personnel problems in that position.
He has been unlucky from that perspective, as he had three different managers in four seasons, which offered him no continuity and hampered his development.
He has played as a striker under Jans’ successor, Pieter Huistra, and has been a right-back under Robert Maaskant this season.
However, he’s most comfortable in the middle of the park, in a box-to-box role or a controlling role.
He has stated lately that he wants to develop in those positions instead of being shipped out to the wing, something that has regularly happened.
How is he regarded in Holland?
Fans in Holland sometimes say he has been inconsistent, but I think he has been good in central midfield throughout his career.
At the moment I am not sure he is of Villa’s level, but I think he can develop spectacularly and prove to be a bargain and most informed FC Groningen-watchers would agree.
What stage of his development is Bacuna at and how would you describe his playing style?
Bacuna is basically a piece of raw talent. He is right-footed, very strong, with a high workrate, energetic and quite pacy.
He has the ability to play a full game with intensity and he comes across very eager. His passing is good, but not outstanding. He has a good long ball and a thunderous right foot.
Bacuna has developed himself as quite the free-kick specialist, although he powers them more than he places them.
He has been good against top teams and was instrumental in wins against, for example, PSV, in which he nullified Kevin Strootman, and Feyenoord. I think he can learn a lot from Lambert.
Villa had high hopes for Karim El Ahmadi when he arrived from the Eredivisie, but he has flattered to deceive. How will Bacuna fair in the Premier League?
El Ahmadi is tactically and technically more astute, but has disappointed for Villa. Bacuna is a completely different player who can ‘take on’ the whole of the midfield.
He would be best suited as a box-to-box midfielder. The tempo will be a test for him, but his style should suit the Premier League.
He can be infuriating, because he still needs to harness his attacking strengths and can occasionally waste possession with ambitious long passes and shots. Sometimes the execution does not match the intention.
He should suit Villa’s game, though, and provide something more exciting than El Ahmadi and Stephen Ireland.
Is there anything else of interest you can tell us about Bacuna?.
Most of his goals have been penalties – he is quite the specialist. He is the regular penalty taker, which tells you he is able to handle pressure. He is eager. He demonstrated this by using the summer of ‘11 to develop his left foot.
Michiel Jongsma is the editor of Benefoot.net, a website specialising in the Dutch and Belgian footballing leagues.
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Leandro Bacuna joined the early summer influx of promising foreign youngsters when he arrived at Villa from FC Groningen last night.
Michiel Jongsma, an expert on Dutch football, gives Mat Kendrick the lowdown on the Holland under-21 international midfielder.
Tell us about how and when Bacuna first burst on to the scene in Holland...
Bacuna was handed his debut quite surprisingly aged 18 and nine days. He is a youth product of FC Groningen. He was first handed a role as an attacking midfielder and impressed under Ron Jans.
He played 20 games in his debut season, most of them as a starter. He’s now 21 and has already played 109 league games (in a 34-game league) and scored 14 times.
He has nine caps at under-21 level. Bacuna was selected for the preliminary squad of the Euro Under-21s, but missed the cut.
We hear Bacuna is quite versatile – what is his best position?
Bacuna originally broke through as an attacking midfielder or a winger, but that was mainly due to personnel problems in that position.
He has been unlucky from that perspective, as he had three different managers in four seasons, which offered him no continuity and hampered his development.
He has played as a striker under Jans’ successor, Pieter Huistra, and has been a right-back under Robert Maaskant this season.
However, he’s most comfortable in the middle of the park, in a box-to-box role or a controlling role.
He has stated lately that he wants to develop in those positions instead of being shipped out to the wing, something that has regularly happened.
How is he regarded in Holland?
Fans in Holland sometimes say he has been inconsistent, but I think he has been good in central midfield throughout his career.
At the moment I am not sure he is of Villa’s level, but I think he can develop spectacularly and prove to be a bargain and most informed FC Groningen-watchers would agree.
What stage of his development is Bacuna at and how would you describe his playing style?
Bacuna is basically a piece of raw talent. He is right-footed, very strong, with a high workrate, energetic and quite pacy.
He has the ability to play a full game with intensity and he comes across very eager. His passing is good, but not outstanding. He has a good long ball and a thunderous right foot.
Bacuna has developed himself as quite the free-kick specialist, although he powers them more than he places them.
He has been good against top teams and was instrumental in wins against, for example, PSV, in which he nullified Kevin Strootman, and Feyenoord. I think he can learn a lot from Lambert.
Villa had high hopes for Karim El Ahmadi when he arrived from the Eredivisie, but he has flattered to deceive. How will Bacuna fair in the Premier League?
El Ahmadi is tactically and technically more astute, but has disappointed for Villa. Bacuna is a completely different player who can ‘take on’ the whole of the midfield.
He would be best suited as a box-to-box midfielder. The tempo will be a test for him, but his style should suit the Premier League.
He can be infuriating, because he still needs to harness his attacking strengths and can occasionally waste possession with ambitious long passes and shots. Sometimes the execution does not match the intention.
He should suit Villa’s game, though, and provide something more exciting than El Ahmadi and Stephen Ireland.
Is there anything else of interest you can tell us about Bacuna?.
Most of his goals have been penalties – he is quite the specialist. He is the regular penalty taker, which tells you he is able to handle pressure. He is eager. He demonstrated this by using the summer of ‘11 to develop his left foot.
Michiel Jongsma is the editor of Benefoot.net, a website specialising in the Dutch and Belgian footballing leagues.
Interesting; thanks for posting.
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While watching both the Bacuna and Okore interviews, I kept thinking 'for God's sake Woodward, ask some interesting questions!'. He always speaks to players like he's addresing primary school children.
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Everybody got their passports ready for 2014-2015 European adventures.
Mine is done and ready.
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The bit at the bottom about him using a summer to improve his weaker foot is my favourite part of that. I want players to get to the end of the season and have a plan of what they need to do over the summer to get better, particularly when they're in their early 20s. Too many players get into the first team and think they've done it but we seem to be signing players who have that drive to keep improving.
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Looks like a good piece of business.
As has been oft said much prefer the younger, technically adept player with lower outlay and potential higher return than the deadwood MON, Houllier and McLeish brought in
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Everybody got their passports ready for 2014-2015 European adventures.
Mine is done and ready.
See you in Rome for the final ;)
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I'm an old softy me but, I loved it when he said in interview"my parents are very proud" I took that to mean his move to the Villa.
Ye me to dave. There was something very genuine and respectfully old fashion about mentioning his parents. Think he is going to have a big impact in this exciting squad ........
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While watching both the Bacuna and Okore interviews, I kept thinking 'for God's sake Woodward, ask some interesting questions!'. He always speaks to players like he's addresing primary school children.
you'll be waiting such a long time for that Pete. In fact I'll bet you and I will be long gone by the time he asks a decent question, or not the same question 4 times in a different way.
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The worst thing in those AVTV interviews was Woodward using English terms/clichés he really should know that as a journalist, players with English as a second language might struggle with ("you must be champing at the bit", a few others that I can't recall but near made me cringe).
As for Bacuna, take away his penalty goals and has he scored many? Also, that he didn't make the Dutch U21 squad for the Euro's suggests he's still quite raw.
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Also, that he didn't make the Dutch U21 squad for the Euro's suggests he's still quite raw.
To be fair though, Holland did what England couldn't and have lots of their senior players in the team. With the likes of Strootman, Clasie, Maher, Wijnaldum, Leerdam, Fer etc to compete with in midfield, you can see why he missed out.
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Jack Woodward - nice enough bloke - but a bit of a plum. Always strikes me that he is trying to do a Jim Rosenthal impersonation - because talking in that stilted way is how sports broadcasting is supposed to be done. But a good heart and plenty of enthusiasm carry him through where his knowledge and understanding let him down.
Interesting article on Leandro here
http://www.myoldmansaid.com/leandro-bacuna-aston-villas-versatilty-dutch-insider-view/ (http://www.myoldmansaid.com/leandro-bacuna-aston-villas-versatilty-dutch-insider-view/)
Dutch guy gutted that Leandro left - rates him very highly - a real box to box midfielder - creative and destructive - just what we haven't had for so long.
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I'm quite curious to see how he gets on, sounds like a promising player. All of the players we've signed have had very good things to say as well, which is promising.
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Hopefully PL has him pencilled for one of the midfield three positions as that looks to be by far his best position judging by that article.
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Leandro Bacuna can't wait for the start of pre-season training on Monday as he looks to form an important part of Villa's "new generation."
Bacuna recognises the work done by boss Paul Lambert to create a young, emerging team which is striving to improve.
Lambert has snapped up Jores Okore, Antonio Luna, Aleksandar Tonev and Niklas Helenius too as he aims to build on the progress made in his first term in charge.
Bacuna wants to be part of that exciting set-up and stresses that he will fight with everything he's got to be a success in claret and blue.
He said: "It's a new beginning for me. It's a new step for me. I'm looking forward to being part of this young, hungry team we have at Villa.
"The manager is trying to create a new generation, to build something here and improve us all as players. He wants the guys to go out there and show what they can do. I'm up for the challenge.
"For every player who's coming in, it's good to find themselves in a team and an environment such as this.
"We will get the opportunity to show that we want to play and what we can do. We need to show the manager what we can do. You have to show the very best of yourself. That's what I will be looking to do.
"I'm fully focused to show myself at my new club. My mentality is that you start at the bottom and you prove yourself. This is what I intend to do."
Bacuna is relishing meeting his new team-mates - and beginning life in the Barclays Premier League which he says is "the top level."
He added: "I can't wait to get started because it's a good group of players here - nice guys. I'm looking forward to meeting all of them and starting this new journey together.
"In training, I will do my very best every day. I will go out there and try to show what I can do.
"I want to develop a good bond with the fans too. I fight. I always fight for the team. If you do that, you get a lot of supporters behind you. That's a huge thing.
"I can't wait to get started in the Premier League. It's a high standard and it will be really good to be part of it.
"It's another level. The Premier League is the very top. Everyone wants to play in it. This is a nice time to join it. I can't wait to get started."
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I'll say one thing for Lambert's new signings. They all speak remarkably good English.
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I'll say one thing for Lambert's new signings. They all speak remarkably good English.
For schure.
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Interested to get a good look at Bacuna in action. There's a real gap in the Villa team for an attacking midfielder just ahead of the deeper two central midfielders and everything I've read about this lad suggests he's got bags of drive and energy and a great shot on him too. Could be what we're missing.
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I'll say one thing for Lambert's new signings. They all speak remarkably good English.
Hopefully Gabby's will start to improve as a result
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I'll say one thing for Lambert's new signings. They all speak remarkably good English.
Hopefully Gabby's will start to improve as a result
You can tell that Gabby and Andi are mates by the laters ever thicker Erdington Brummie accent.
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I'll say one thing for Lambert's new signings. They all speak remarkably good English.
Hopefully Gabby's will start to improve as a result
I reckon Gabby has been getting elocution lessons.
There is an interview with him as an extra on the on the Season Review DVD and I was able to understand everything he said.
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I'll say one thing for Lambert's new signings. They all speak remarkably good English.
Hopefully Gabby's will start to improve as a result
Deffinutleeeeee
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Just giving him a bump as he did well yesterday. Some wicked set-pieces and looked the part in open play too (apart from that mad back-pass).
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Yep he played really well. Nice to see a whipped in set piece for a change!
Still think lowton is ace though and will reclaim his place.
Bacuna looks a lot better wide at the moment. I we did revert to 4411, perhaps bacuna could take tonev's place and give more protection to lowton, come inside to support the midfield and allow lowton to overlap.
Still not convinced by the 4411 though.
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Yep he played really well. Nice to see a whipped in set piece for a change!
Still think lowton is ace though and will reclaim his place.
Bacuna looks a lot better wide at the moment. I we did revert to 4411, perhaps bacuna could take tonev's place and give more protection to lowton, come inside to support the midfield and allow lowton to overlap.
Still not convinced by the 4411 though.
I think it was a needs must formation when Westwood got injured and with the Norwich wide players in mind to protect the full back. Weimann put a hell of a shift in, but I though Bacuna was our best outfield performer by a street. Put Redmond and then the missing link Pilkington in his pocket. Pace gets him out of trouble, and I agree he could sit very effectively in front of Lowton. Looks a snip for what we paid considering his versatility.
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Did well, looked strong defensively and his set pieces were good.
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When Bacuna gets fully up to speed, he and Delph in midfield will be very hard to handle. I think he may become the pick of the 2013 signings.
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When Bacuna gets fully up to speed, he and Delph in midfield will be very hard to handle. I think he may become the pick of the 2013 signings.
That's what I was hoping, assuming that saturday's performance can become his consistent level.
The pace and energy of Delph and Bacuna either side of the Westwood would be pretty frightening and would certainly protect the back 4 (without having an out and out destroyer). It'd probably mean that creativity would have to come from Gabby or Weimann (or to replace one of these)but a pretty dynamic team nonetheless.
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If we'd started Lowton with Bacuna in place of Tonev it might have been far more comfortable.
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Bacuna impresses me far more as a right back than a midfielder. I'm not sure his passing is disciplined enough for a central role but his pace and aggression trumps Lowton as a full-back so I'd keep him there for the time being and make Lowton fight for his place.
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Did well, looked strong defensively and his set pieces were good.
I wasn't convinced at all during the first 20 odd minutes on Saturday but he got better as the game went on.
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Did well, looked strong defensively and his set pieces were good.
I wasn't convinced at all during the first 20 odd minutes on Saturday but he got better as the game went on.
Worthy of retaining his place would you say clampy ? I was away at the weekend and saw only brief highlights.
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Did well, looked strong defensively and his set pieces were good.
I wasn't convinced at all during the first 20 odd minutes on Saturday but he got better as the game went on.
Worthy of retaining his place would you say clampy ? I was away at the weekend and saw only brief highlights.
Definitely. As Clampy said, he had a tough start and gave a way a few fouls but after that he had the beating of Redmond and Pilkington. On a completely unrelated note, after watching Redmond on Saturday I was so pleased we hadn't signed him. A very arrogant little shit. Very Small Heath.
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Even though all of his family are Villa fans.
Thought Lowton had a very poor performance against Newcastle. Was probably due one to be fair, Bacuna may be moved into midfield though if Delph really is out and Tonev continues to be crap.
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Bacuna impresses me far more as a right back than a midfielder. I'm not sure his passing is disciplined enough for a central role but his pace and aggression trumps Lowton as a full-back so I'd keep him there for the time being and make Lowton fight for his place.
I thought his passing against Liverpool was dreadful. It is this giving the ball away that continuously puts pressure on us, it's not just him but that game I really thought he was shocking but it is great to see defensively he was sound. We are not in it for the short term, most of these guys will take a while to settle unfortunately.
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Did well, looked strong defensively and his set pieces were good.
I wasn't convinced at all during the first 20 odd minutes on Saturday but he got better as the game went on.
Worthy of retaining his place would you say clampy ? I was away at the weekend and saw only brief highlights.
Definitely. As Clampy said, he had a tough start and gave a way a few fouls but after that he had the beating of Redmond and Pilkington. On a completely unrelated note, after watching Redmond on Saturday I was so pleased we hadn't signed him. A very arrogant little shit. Very Small Heath.
I like Redmond but I didn't realise he was on the pitch on Saturday which says a lot for Bacuna's performance I suppose. I prefer Lowton out of the two but it's good that Lambert's not afraid to drop players who are not doing it.
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Bacuna impresses me far more as a right back than a midfielder.
In the first half against Liverpool he seemed a bit light weight for a midfielder and gives the ball away too often. On the other hand he got better in the second half so it might just be a case of giving him more opportunities and playing time.
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I'm assuming Lowton was injured rather than dropped. Surely he would have been on the bench given our lack of reinforcements in defence if he was fit.
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I'm assuming Lowton was injured rather than dropped. Surely he would have been on the bench given our lack of reinforcements in defence if he was fit.
According to chap on the radio tonight he was dropped rather than injured.
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Reckon he was carrying a knock personally but I guess we'll never know.
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Bacuna was OK, after the first 30 mins, on Saturday against what is a very ordinary Norwich team. Looked completely out of his depth against Liverpool, but I see him as a utility player.
I would be very wary about him as a right back against anyone decent. I would certainly not use an OK performance, in a single game, as evidence that he is a match for Lowton; who has performed consistently well over a whole season.
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Wasn't inpressed by any of his pre-season games in midfield, except for his wonder goal.
Was impressed with his games at full-back where he seems to play better with a narrow area to cover in front of him and largely one way to play the ball. Thought he played really well on Sat once he'd settled in to the pace of the game.
I expect him to play tomorrow.
In fact, if any more get injured I expect I'll be playing myself!!! ;-)
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I think bacuna and Luna will provide perfect foil for citi's wide men providing we don't play too deep.
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I immediately took a dislike towards Redmond when I saw him ask the referee to book Bacuna because he dared to tackle him.
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I think bacuna and Luna will provide perfect foil for citi's wide men providing we don't play too deep.
I think Bacuna and Luna will form the perfect rhyming couplet once I can get the metre sorted.
Just hope Tony Moon can stop Jesus from getting a decent cross in!
;-)
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Bacuna impresses me far more as a right back than a midfielder. I'm not sure his passing is disciplined enough for a central role but his pace and aggression trumps Lowton as a full-back so I'd keep him there for the time being and make Lowton fight for his place.
I thought his passing against Liverpool was dreadful. It is this giving the ball away that continuously puts pressure on us, it's not just him but that game I really thought he was shocking but it is great to see defensively he was sound. We are not in it for the short term, most of these guys will take a while to settle unfortunately.
Agree that he struggled against Liverpool in a more central role. Wouldn't mind seeing him out wide on the right, with Tonev switched to the left.
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Bacuna impresses me far more as a right back than a midfielder. I'm not sure his passing is disciplined enough for a central role but his pace and aggression trumps Lowton as a full-back so I'd keep him there for the time being and make Lowton fight for his place.
I thought his passing against Liverpool was dreadful. It is this giving the ball away that continuously puts pressure on us, it's not just him but that game I really thought he was shocking but it is great to see defensively he was sound. We are not in it for the short term, most of these guys will take a while to settle unfortunately.
Agree that he struggled against Liverpool in a more central role. Wouldn't mind seeing him out wide on the right, with Tonev switched to the left.
You want to see Tonev in a Villa shirt again?
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Bacuna impresses me far more as a right back than a midfielder. I'm not sure his passing is disciplined enough for a central role but his pace and aggression trumps Lowton as a full-back so I'd keep him there for the time being and make Lowton fight for his place.
I thought his passing against Liverpool was dreadful. It is this giving the ball away that continuously puts pressure on us, it's not just him but that game I really thought he was shocking but it is great to see defensively he was sound. We are not in it for the short term, most of these guys will take a while to settle unfortunately.
Agree that he struggled against Liverpool in a more central role. Wouldn't mind seeing him out wide on the right, with Tonev switched to the left.
You want to see Tonev in a Villa shirt again?
Yes. I certainly haven't given up on him.
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I wouldn't be writing off Tonev yet. Its far too early. You can't put down Bacuna as a great piece of business after a couple of games, if you're not gonna give Tonev a fair shake. I think he'll come good. Though I do think Bacunas adaptability means that he'll really have a big impact this season.
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Bacuna impresses me far more as a right back than a midfielder. I'm not sure his passing is disciplined enough for a central role but his pace and aggression trumps Lowton as a full-back so I'd keep him there for the time being and make Lowton fight for his place.
I thought his passing against Liverpool was dreadful. It is this giving the ball away that continuously puts pressure on us, it's not just him but that game I really thought he was shocking but it is great to see defensively he was sound. We are not in it for the short term, most of these guys will take a while to settle unfortunately.
Agree that he struggled against Liverpool in a more central role. Wouldn't mind seeing him out wide on the right, with Tonev switched to the left.
You want to see Tonev in a Villa shirt again?
That's the spirit.
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There is one big upside with some of the players mentioned and that is they cost very little and if they don't make the grade Lambert will move them on with little lost. The market we are shopping in will have more misses than hits.
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The market we are shopping in will have more misses than hits.
will it?
Lambert - so far - has proved more than capable of spotting the hits.
Bacuna looks like a decent player who - at 21 - is finding his feet in the P'ship. He was wayward against Liverpool but also showed that he likes the ball at his feet, has real pace and is prepared to attack defenders (all similar to Delph). When moved to full back he looked cool and combative.
I cannot speak for Saturday, since I missed the game; but comments here are really encouraging.
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I wouldn't be writing off Tonev yet. Its far too early. You can't put down Bacuna as a great piece of business after a couple of games, if you're not gonna give Tonev a fair shake. I think he'll come good. Though I do think Bacunas adaptability means that he'll really have a big impact this season.
Are you saying that less than 90 minutes on the pitch is not enough time to make bellend comments about writing a player off?
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I wouldn't be writing off Tonev yet. Its far too early. You can't put down Bacuna as a great piece of business after a couple of games, if you're not gonna give Tonev a fair shake. I think he'll come good. Though I do think Bacunas adaptability means that he'll really have a big impact this season.
Are you saying that less than 90 minutes on the pitch is not enough time to make bellend comments about writing a player off?
Yes. Too early to write off, too early to think we've got the next Pele/Maradona.
A few people were writing off Benteke this time last year.
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I wouldn't be writing off Tonev yet. Its far too early. You can't put down Bacuna as a great piece of business after a couple of games, if you're not gonna give Tonev a fair shake. I think he'll come good. Though I do think Bacunas adaptability means that he'll really have a big impact this season.
Are you saying that less than 90 minutes on the pitch is not enough time to make bellend comments about writing a player off?
Yes. Too early to write off, too early to think we've got the next Pele/Maradona.
A few people were writing off Benteke this time last year.
You're mad. We have had five minutes to judge him. He was knocked off the ball TWICE!!!1! and undercooked TWO passes!!!111!!!
Plus he kept shooting, which no Villa midfielder is allowed to do.
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I wouldn't be writing off Tonev yet. Its far too early. You can't put down Bacuna as a great piece of business after a couple of games, if you're not gonna give Tonev a fair shake. I think he'll come good. Though I do think Bacunas adaptability means that he'll really have a big impact this season.
Are you saying that less than 90 minutes on the pitch is not enough time to make bellend comments about writing a player off?
Yes. Too early to write off, too early to think we've got the next Pele/Maradona.
A few people were writing off Benteke this time last year.
You're mad. We have had five minutes to judge him. He was knocked off the ball TWICE!!!1! and undercooked TWO passes!!!111!!!
Plus he kept shooting, which no Villa midfielder is allowed to do.
You've persuaded me.
Ship him off!
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The market we are shopping in will have more misses than hits.
will it?
Probability suggests so, yes. That's not to say PL is doing a bad job but in reality we cannot expect every signing to come off.
I also think it'll become harder as we improve as there'll be less opportunities for the fringe players to play and prove themselves.
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The market we are shopping in will have more misses than hits.
will it?
Probability suggests so, yes. That's not to say PL is doing a bad job but in reality we cannot expect every signing to come off.
I also think it'll become harder as we improve as there'll be less opportunities for the fringe players to play and prove themselves.
I disagree. Its not as though these players are random punts, plucked from minor leagues on the off chance that they'll come good. Remember, we had a 30-game dossier on Westwood when we signed him, and its probably fair to assume that every other sigining will have had a similar level of scouting done one them too. The management/scouting team will have done everything possible to ensure they've got the right players.
Will they all be good enough? No. But I'd say so far Lamberts signings have been more hit than miss.
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Bacuna looked decent at right back against Liverpool and had a really good game against Norwich, not giving Redmond a kick. Norwich's biggest threat comes from their flanks and between Guzan and the defence, we dealt with everything. On the evidence of what I've seen from Bacuna so far, I would have full confidence of playing him at right back and in time, he could make a good midfielder too but I wouldn't rush to make that his permanent role.
Tonev was very wasteful and must be very frustrating with someone who shoots whenever they get the ball. I've played with people who did that and it does piss you off. That's not to say I'm writing him off though - he just needs to learn. With experience he will learn when to hold onto the ball, when a pass is on and when to shoot. If it wasn't for injuries, I would give him a little break to think about this and to learn from Saturday's game but he will probably have to play tonight. Hopefully he's a quick learner.
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I really couldn't work Tonev out on Saturday. It was almost like he'd been told to shoot whenever he got the ball. He also played in almost the exact role that would have suited Brett Holman- and with much less effect on the game.
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I really couldn't work Tonev out on Saturday. It was almost like he'd been told to shoot whenever he got the ball. He also played in almost the exact role that would have suited Brett Holman- and with much less effect on the game.
Some of Lambert's signings from last summer turned out to be slow burners and improved as the season went on. I'm hoping Tonev will turn out to be in this category, because I must say I haven't been overly impressed so far.
As for Bacuna, if nothing else we now know we have a genuine alternative to Lowton at RB.
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The market we are shopping in will have more misses than hits.
will it?
Probability suggests so, yes. That's not to say PL is doing a bad job but in reality we cannot expect every signing to come off.
I also think it'll become harder as we improve as there'll be less opportunities for the fringe players to play and prove themselves.
"More misses than hits"? - probability actually suggests 50:50, in totally random slections.
They are not random: PL has shown in his first 12 months or so that he can select more hits than misses: of the ones he's bought so far, which ones have been given enough pitch-time to show that they are complete duffers?
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I really couldn't work Tonev out on Saturday. It was almost like he'd been told to shoot whenever he got the ball. He also played in almost the exact role that would have suited Brett Holman- and with much less effect on the game.
Some of Lambert's signings from last summer turned out to be slow burners and improved as the season went on. I'm hoping Tonev will turn out to be in this category, because I must say I haven't been overly impressed so far.
As for Bacuna, if nothing else we now know we have a genuine alternative to Lowton at RB.
And to think after the Liverpool game some were writing off Bacuna.
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I really couldn't work Tonev out on Saturday. It was almost like he'd been told to shoot whenever he got the ball. He also played in almost the exact role that would have suited Brett Holman- and with much less effect on the game.
Some of Lambert's signings from last summer turned out to be slow burners and improved as the season went on. I'm hoping Tonev will turn out to be in this category, because I must say I haven't been overly impressed so far.
As for Bacuna, if nothing else we now know we have a genuine alternative to Lowton at RB.
And to think after the Liverpool game some were writing off Bacuna.
I'm not sure where he was supposed to have played v Liverpool.
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I'm not sure where he was supposed to have played v Liverpool.
CM (where he wasn't that good) until Lowton got subbed off. Then he moved to RB and looked pretty handy.
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The market we are shopping in will have more misses than hits.
will it?
Probability suggests so, yes. That's not to say PL is doing a bad job but in reality we cannot expect every signing to come off.
I also think it'll become harder as we improve as there'll be less opportunities for the fringe players to play and prove themselves.
"More misses than hits"? - probability actually suggests 50:50, in totally random slections.
They are not random: PL has shown in his first 12 months or so that he can select more hits than misses: of the ones he's bought so far, which ones have been given enough pitch-time to show that they are complete duffers?
"More misses than hits" and "50/50" are both factually correct, each individual is 50/50 but that doesn't mean that picking up 100 young players will give you 50 good and 50 bad, if it did everyone would just do a Parma and sign half the kids in their city.
Given that both are true you can't bring probability into it, uncertainty is a far more important concept here, if we do our research and target players based on measurable skills, which seems to the way Lambert does his business, then we limit the uncertainty to being about mental adaptation rather than technical ability. By doing that, so long as the 'data collection' is valid and suitable (i.e. we've got good scouts) then we move well into a more hits than misses situation. The current record suggests that we're doing things right so it's fair to assume that 5-6 of the new guys will turn out well, which is roughly in line with last season.
From last year there's only really Bennett and possibly KEA with question marks, Benteke, Lowton, Westwood and Sylla are universally accepted as being good signings who strengthened the squad and Vlaar has mostly turned people round now after a few iffy performances last season.
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The market we are shopping in will have more misses than hits.
will it?
Probability suggests so, yes. That's not to say PL is doing a bad job but in reality we cannot expect every signing to come off.
I also think it'll become harder as we improve as there'll be less opportunities for the fringe players to play and prove themselves.
"More misses than hits"? - probability actually suggests 50:50, in totally random slections.
They are not random: PL has shown in his first 12 months or so that he can select more hits than misses: of the ones he's bought so far, which ones have been given enough pitch-time to show that they are complete duffers?
"More misses than hits" and "50/50" are both factually correct, each individual is 50/50 but that doesn't mean that picking up 100 young players will give you 50 good and 50 bad, if it did everyone would just do a Parma and sign half the kids in their city.
Given that both are true you can't bring probability into it, uncertainty is a far more important concept here, if we do our research and target players based on measurable skills, which seems to the way Lambert does his business, then we limit the uncertainty to being about mental adaptation rather than technical ability. By doing that, so long as the 'data collection' is valid and suitable (i.e. we've got good scouts) then we move well into a more hits than misses situation. The current record suggests that we're doing things right so it's fair to assume that 5-6 of the new guys will turn out well, which is roughly in line with last season.
From last year there's only really Bennett and possibly KEA with question marks, Benteke, Lowton, Westwood and Sylla are universally accepted as being good signings who strengthened the squad and Vlaar has mostly turned people round now after a few iffy performances last season.
Good post Paul e. I do think there is a third dimension of supply and demand, well price which should be factored in. By this I mean that the players we are generally buying are very cheap so they must have a question mark against there ability somewhere, whether that is age, the league they've come from, or skill levels. For example a player can look quick when watching third division football/polish but less so when tested against premier league players.
I agree completely with you and the other posters that Lambert's scouting and research reduces this risk but the context he watches the players means he cannot be certain they'll succeed (beyond just the mental aspect you rightly identify).
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... the context he watches the players means he cannot be certain they'll succeed (beyond just the mental aspect you rightly identify).
And most enlightened coaches believe that the mental aspect is most important; it's not 'just' as an afterthought.
That's why the "more misses than hits" comment is such an interesting one to discuss.
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Thought he showed promise in the second half tonight. I was impressed with his confidence, he looks to be quite a burly character and ran his socks off. Put in a couple of good balls along with Albrighton and doesn't suffer from the physical frailty of some of our other players.
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Thought he showed promise in the second half tonight. I was impressed with his confidence, he looks to be quite a burly character and ran his socks off. Put in a couple of good balls along with Albrighton and doesn't suffer from the physical frailty of some of our other players.
I hope he comes good as he seems to have the right ingredients to really compliment Delph and Westwood in a midfield 3.
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Don't think his ball control and mental awareness is quick enough for midfield at the present time. Is too way off the pace. Perhaps with half a season under his belt he improves and, as with all the others, he has youth on his side.
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... the context he watches the players means he cannot be certain they'll succeed (beyond just the mental aspect you rightly identify).
And most enlightened coaches believe that the mental aspect is most important; it's not 'just' as an afterthought.
That's why the "more misses than hits" comment is such an interesting one to discuss.
I'm not really sure why you've highlighted just in that way, or really what the point of your post is but just in case I'll clarify:
take 100 random people from the street and you may get 1 who has the technical ability or potential to play professional football. Do the same with 100 14 year olds who all have youth terms with top flight clubs and you're increasing the amount who have the technical skills. Go further buy players who are playing professionally and are well regarded in their league for having good technical skills and you get much closer to 100% in terms of technical ability. Only at that point does mental aptitude become important. So yes, for a professional coach, dealing with professional football players the mental aspect is key, that's because the technical 'filtering' has largely already happened when the players get to them.
Dante: Cost is mostly a combination of the 2, with a bit of reputation thrown in.
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... the context he watches the players means he cannot be certain they'll succeed (beyond just the mental aspect you rightly identify).
And most enlightened coaches believe that the mental aspect is most important; it's not 'just' as an afterthought.
That's why the "more misses than hits" comment is such an interesting one to discuss.
I'm not really sure why you've highlighted just in that way, or really what the point of your post is but just in case I'll clarify:
take 100 random people from the street and you may get 1 who has the technical ability or potential to play professional football. Do the same with 100 14 year olds who all have youth terms with top flight clubs and you're increasing the amount who have the technical skills. Go further buy players who are playing professionally and are well regarded in their league for having good technical skills and you get much closer to 100% in terms of technical ability. Only at that point does mental aptitude become important. So yes, for a professional coach, dealing with professional football players the mental aspect is key, that's because the technical 'filtering' has largely already happened when the players get to them.
Dante: Cost is mostly a combination of the 2, with a bit of reputation thrown in.
My point - commenting on Dante's post - was the one you rehashed: in the context of pro football selection, the mental aspect is key.
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... the context he watches the players means he cannot be certain they'll succeed (beyond just the mental aspect you rightly identify).
And most enlightened coaches believe that the mental aspect is most important; it's not 'just' as an afterthought.
That's why the "more misses than hits" comment is such an interesting one to discuss.
I'm not really sure why you've highlighted just in that way, or really what the point of your post is but just in case I'll clarify:
take 100 random people from the street and you may get 1 who has the technical ability or potential to play professional football. Do the same with 100 14 year olds who all have youth terms with top flight clubs and you're increasing the amount who have the technical skills. Go further buy players who are playing professionally and are well regarded in their league for having good technical skills and you get much closer to 100% in terms of technical ability. Only at that point does mental aptitude become important. So yes, for a professional coach, dealing with professional football players the mental aspect is key, that's because the technical 'filtering' has largely already happened when the players get to them.
Dante: Cost is mostly a combination of the 2, with a bit of reputation thrown in.
My point - commenting on Dante's post - was the one you rehashed: in the context of pro football selection, the mental aspect is key.
I have heard Wenger say a few times that no matter how young you get a player, this is the one quality you cannot coach.
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I thought he played well with Sylla in a 4-4-2 last night, take on board that we need a more creative player, possibly 2 in the team, but the basis of a hard working, strong, physical, aggressive midfield was there last night for me.Looks a good buy for £2m.
Not sure , on saturdays evidence, that Bacuna would'nt have covered Defoes run for their goal, better than Lowton did.
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That free kick, goddamn. About time we had someone capable of doing that.
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I'm going to play this out regularly, in the summer I called Bacuna as the new signing that would prove to be the biggest impact this season and I see nothing to suggest I wasn't right in my judgement, his pass for the 1st was very well weighted and the free kick was superb, on top of that he defended really well, they got very little joy down their left all game. I think he'll become a top drawer centre-mid in a few years, he's got all the attributes to be a very successful player in this league.
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I'm going to play this out regularly, in the summer I called Bacuna as the new signing that would prove to be the biggest impact this season and I see nothing to suggest I wasn't right in my judgement, his pass for the 1st was very well weighted and the free kick was superb, on top of that he defended really well, they got very little joy down their left all game. I think he'll become a top drawer centre-mid in a few years, he's got all the attributes to be a very successful player in this league.
Good shout. I'll admit, Bacuna was probably the player I was least excited about signing (and i'm normally super optimistic about everyone we bring in) but so far he's been a very pleasant suprise.
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He got a lot of stick after Liverpool but I think he did ok that game as well, cracking free kick
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He got a lot of stick after Liverpool but I think he did ok that game as well, cracking free kick
Better at right back than in midfield in my opinion.
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Played well today. Has a fair bit of potential and man of the match for me today closely followed by Fabian and KEA. Luna deserves credit after the stick he has received.
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He got a lot of stick after Liverpool but I think he did ok that game as well, cracking free kick
Better at right back than in midfield in my opinion.
Right now, yes but like paul_e I think he will end up being a top central midfielder.
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He got a lot of stick after Liverpool but I think he did ok that game as well, cracking free kick
Better at right back than in midfield in my opinion.
Not sure. His positional pay as fullback is rubbish. He will revery to midfield soon.
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I think he is a genuine right sided midfield player, but his pace and defending ability makes up for positional efficiency at right back. He does look, after a very lost 45 minutes against Liverpool, like being a really impressive find from Lambert.
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He got a lot of stick after Liverpool but I think he did ok that game as well, cracking free kick
Better at right back than in midfield in my opinion.
Not sure. His positional pay as fullback is rubbish. He will revery to midfield soon.
Like a lot of players from Holland it's going to take him a while to get used to the speed of the game in England, his advantage is that he's versatile enough that we can put him at right back where he'll get more time than he does in midfield. Give it 6months-1year and I think he'll be established and will be a genuine option centrally. Whatever happens I think he'll play a lot because his set pieces are very effective.
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I think centre midfield will be his position, but great to have someone who can play in a few positiions. Has the energy and physique to play centre mid and will probably end up there, am sure he will prove to be another good signing
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Brilliant player who I think will get even better.
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Brilliant player who I think will get even better.
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Was sceptical that he might be the runt of the summer's litter, having not been able to even get into the Dutch U21 squad. There was also a reported general bemusement from Dutch fans that we had bought him. His debut against Liverpool didn't dispel any of that but his performances over the past week have been very encouraging. And a set-piece specialist is worth his weight in gold - which is why Baines will displace Cashley for the World Cup.
Also good to see he doesn't take no shit from nobody (like the moody dude in Cool Runnings). Delph aside, we're far too nice and have been going back to Dolly O'Dreary's days of honest lads and fickle sugarbags.
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I thought he was decidedly dodgy in the first half, but superb in the second.
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If that had been Lampard scoring the freekick then MOTD would have spent half a fucking hour fawning over it.
Bacuna, fucking class. Shove it up your arse City. UTV.
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He got a lot of stick after Liverpool but I think he did ok that game as well, cracking free kick
Better at right back than in midfield in my opinion.
He and Delph could be a magic combo in CMF over the next couple fo years: both like the ball at feet, are feisty and technically sound.
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Brilliant player who I think will get even better.
So good you said it twice :-)
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I really like him, he's settling in pretty quickly which is a bonus. He didn't seem to have a clue where he was playing against Liverpool but since then he's found his feet.
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Sitting in centre upper Witton End I jumped up as soon as the ball cleared the wall. It was a goal as Hart was nowhere near it and about a foot in from both bar and post. I am sure initially everyone around me thought what's wrong with this NUTTER! Brilliant. I then felt we could not lose this match.
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I can see him becoming a Frank Carrodus type cult player, I used to pretend to be Frank in Sunday kick abouts with my mates on the Stray in Harrogate when it was Leeds Utd vs the rest, of which most were Yanited fans
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I can see him becoming a Frank Carrodus type cult player, I used to pretend to be Frank in Sunday kick abouts with my mates on the Stray in Harrogate when it was Leeds Utd vs the rest, of which most were Yanited fans
I remember those days well, it seemed that well over half the kids at my school were Leeds fans and most ot the rest united - i wonder if those glory hunters still follow Leeds :)
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I can see him becoming a Frank Carrodus type cult player, I used to pretend to be Frank in Sunday kick abouts with my mates on the Stray in Harrogate when it was Leeds Utd vs the rest, of which most were Yanited fans
I remember those days well, it seemed that well over half the kids at my school were Leeds fans and most ot the rest united - i wonder if those glory hunters still follow Leeds :)
I suspect they probably do Eastie, they were all pretty committed 'we are yorkshire' types and hard as nails. I used to get a right kicking from them at school in their doc martins and scarves tied round their necks and wrists when it snowed
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He's looking very good, and his set pieces will potentially be a real added bonus.
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Great free kick and getting better with every game.
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Great free kick and getting better with every game.
Yep Lowton has a hell of a fight on his hands now, which is good.
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I can see him becoming a Frank Carrodus type cult player, I used to pretend to be Frank in Sunday kick abouts with my mates on the Stray in Harrogate when it was Leeds Utd vs the rest, of which most were Yanited fans
Never saw Frank take a free kick like that, never saw him take a free kick actually lol
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To the tune of Alejandro by Lady Gaga:
Oh-Le-andro! Oh-Le-andro! Oh-le Oh-Le-andro!
Oh Le-andro! Bacuuuuuna
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Me and my two year old have been singing Bacuna Matata. No worries!
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It's a tremendous ability to score from a free kick like that. He must have been doing it consistently in training for Lambert to give him the responsibility, it bodes well for future games.
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He's better at full back than midfield imo.
And agree with Eamon, and said it last week after the Norwich game - he takes no shit. Gets stuck in and enjoys remaining "cool" in the storm of the game.
Cracking free kick - cracking goal!
Interesting that he ran over to Lambert and gave him a big hug!
(in a manly, we're in this together Boss, kinda way!)
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Still no song for this chap? Seems a shame not to be producing a wall of noise for him if he's going to keep banging in free-kicks of that type!
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Developing nicely - could be an outside bet for the Dutch World Cup squad .
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Developing nicely - could be an outside bet for the Dutch World Cup squad .
Was only saying this yesterday evening.
I'm sure Vlaar will be putting in a good word
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Still no song for this chap? Seems a shame not to be producing a wall of noise for him if he's going to keep banging in free-kicks of that type!
Jane & I developed the Macarena complete with dance routine just before the free kick yesterday. It is now a lucky dance so we'll have to do it for every free kick!
Dadadadada Leandro Bacuna
Dadadadada Leandro Bacuna
Dadadadada Leandro Bacuna
Leandro Bacuna
aaaay!
Sadly, we don't really know the moves, but chances are we will usually be pissed enough to try it anyway!
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When we signed him I thought he'd be utility cover. He's turned himself into a guaranteed starter who regularly performs to a high level and his free-kicks are magnificent.
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To the tune of Rock the Casbah, by The Clash.
Leandro Bacuna, ooh, ahh.
Rock the Holte End
Rock the Holte End.
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He's better at full back than midfield imo.
I agree completely. He isn't bad in midfield, but he's got a great cross on him, good first touch, powerful and a bit of pace. Far better option than a currently off form Lowton.
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Must be an amazing feeling for him to have scored 2 magnificent free kicks into the Holte end.
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To the tune of Fernando.
'When he strikes the ball Leandro' - no idea what to put next.
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Apologies - posted in match thread but probably more apt here -
Leandro Bacuna may soon be knocking on neighbour Christian Benteke’s front door asking for his job as Aston Villa's penalty taker.
Bacuna lives next to striker Benteke in a Birmingham apartment block.
The pair are big pals - and Bacuna has now started to emulate Benteke’s scoring heroics.
His perfect free-kick broke the deadlock in the 2-0 win over Cardiff and was his second crucial set-piece of the season.
He also curled in a brilliant free-kick against Man City in September in the Villans' other home win.
And now the versatile defender-cum-midfielder, admits he fancies taking penalties too.
Bacuna, 22, played up-front as a kid and had a 100 per cent record from the spot for old club Groningen.
Benteke, on the other hand, missed a costly penalty in the home loss to Everton a fortnight ago.
Overall, the Belgium international striker’s goals have dried up since his fourth of the season went in on September 14.
Bacuna said: “The gaffer makes the decisions and Christian’s been taking the penalties. I won’t go there and start a fight!
“Christian lives next door to me. We hook up a lot and he’s a good guy. Sometimes we chill out together, we watch a lot of football on TV.
“I was taking penalties in Holland but I only just came to Aston Villa, Benteke takes the penalties here. I’m not going to be like saying: ‘I’m taking the penalties’.
“But I didn’t miss any in Holland and if I was asked I would take them here. If you take a penalty well then the ball is faster than the keeper.”
Bacuna’s 76th-minute strike after Gary Medel had brought him down finally broke Cardiff’s dogged resistance.
With keeper David Marshall again in top form, Cardiff were hard to break down with five across the middle and 10 men behind the ball.
It frustrated the hosts who had gone seven-and-a-half hours without finding the net.
But Cardiff had to open up after conceding and Libor Kozak headed in a second goal late on.
Victory leaves Villa level on points behind Midland rivals West Brom, who they visit next.
And boss Paul Lambert is delighted with Bacuna, a bargain £1million summer signing from Groningen - the Dutch club that developed Arjen Robben and first brought Luis Suarez to Europe.
The Scot said: “We got him for a really low figure and I’m pretty sure he’s not worth that anymore so his value - like a lot of them - has probably gone up.
“The way he is playing his confidence has gone up and he’s enjoying it. His free-kicks have certainly helped us. They came at critical times in games.”
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Surprised "Bacuna Matata" hasn't caught on as a chant yet.
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A few renditions of 'Bacuna Bacuna he loves a Chicken Bhuna..' were on Holte yesterday. Its not my fault!
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A few renditions of 'Bacuna Bacuna he loves a Chicken Bhuna..' were on Holte yesterday. Its not my fault!
I like that. I much prefer an irrelevant chant to a negative chant about a neighbouring club.
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Cardiff's Caulker being nice about Leo's corker. "It was a fantastic free-kick and Villa finished strongly over the last 15 minutes. Our defensive wall for the free-kick was pretty tall – I’m 6ft 3ins for a start – but the ball went over us and dipped in."
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-captain-steven-caulker-6290190
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Less than a million? Another bargain - more of those please.
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Surprised "Bacuna Matata" hasn't caught on as a chant yet.
ditto
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Less than a million? Another bargain - more of those please.
I reckon Lambert's our best talent-spotting manager since Sir Graham.
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Less than a million? Another bargain - more of those please.
I reckon Lambert's our best talent-spotting manager since Sir Graham.
Maybe not so much him but his scouting network which does seem impressive .
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The scouts will present Lambert with options based on a given requirement. It's still Lambert who decides which one the club should sign. He's made some very good calls. There are more obvious names but I thought the Sylla signing in particular took vision and balls. To sanction the signing of a midfielder from the French second division and throw him into the middle of a Premier League survival battle proved to be excellent judgment.
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The scouts will present Lambert with options based on a given requirement. It's still Lambert who decides which one the club should sign. He's made some very good calls. There are more obvious names but I thought the Sylla signing in particular took vision and balls. To sanction the signing of a midfielder from the French second division and throw him into the middle of a Premier League survival battle proved to be excellent judgment.
I agree , he has assembled a good team of scouts and of course makes the final decision - regarding sylla it was very much low risk with the pittance we paid for him but it has turned out well.
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The scouts will present Lambert with options based on a given requirement. It's still Lambert who decides which one the club should sign. He's made some very good calls. There are more obvious names but I thought the Sylla signing in particular took vision and balls. To sanction the signing of a midfielder from the French second division and throw him into the middle of a Premier League survival battle proved to be excellent judgment.
I agree , he has assembled a good team of scouts and of course makes the final decision - regarding sylla it was very much low risk with the pittance we paid for him but it has turned out well.
It was a massive risk. We were in danger of going down and he could easily have spent millions on a more experienced player who contributed a lot less than Sylla did.
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The biggest risk was not bringing in a central defender in my opinion - I am delighted with sylla and find it hard to see why he has missed out so often this season when we clearly look a better side with him in midfield.
When referring to sylla as low risk I was referring more to the fee we paid .
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Cardiff's Caulker being nice about Leo's corker. "It was a fantastic free-kick and Villa finished strongly over the last 15 minutes. Our defensive wall for the free-kick was pretty tall – I’m 6ft 3ins for a start – but the ball went over us and dipped in."
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-captain-steven-caulker-6290190
I thought caulker played well! spuds fans not happy he was sold off.
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The scouts will present Lambert with options based on a given requirement. It's still Lambert who decides which one the club should sign. He's made some very good calls. There are more obvious names but I thought the Sylla signing in particular took vision and balls. To sanction the signing of a midfielder from the French second division and throw him into the middle of a Premier League survival battle proved to be excellent judgment.
Agree with this. He's done very very well to pay the kind of fees he has. Okore for instance was looking an absolute snip for £4m.
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The scouts will present Lambert with options based on a given requirement. It's still Lambert who decides which one the club should sign. He's made some very good calls. There are more obvious names but I thought the Sylla signing in particular took vision and balls. To sanction the signing of a midfielder from the French second division and throw him into the middle of a Premier League survival battle proved to be excellent judgment.
Agree with this. He's done very very well to pay the kind of fees he has. Okore for instance was looking an absolute snip for £4m.
Indeed , he has - benteke , Vlaar, bacuna, Lowton , Westwood , sylla , to name a few would all more than double or treble any outlay on them now - there is no question that his transfer activity in the main has been exceptional and its good to see him put together such a network of scouts after the years of mon mostly ignoring Europe.
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The scouts will present Lambert with options based on a given requirement. It's still Lambert who decides which one the club should sign. He's made some very good calls. There are more obvious names but I thought the Sylla signing in particular took vision and balls. To sanction the signing of a midfielder from the French second division and throw him into the middle of a Premier League survival battle proved to be excellent judgment.
Agree with this. He's done very very well to pay the kind of fees he has. Okore for instance was looking an absolute snip for £4m.
Indeed , he has - benteke , Vlaar, bacuna, Lowton , Westwood , sylla , to name a few would all more than double or treble any outlay on them now - there is no question that his transfer activity in the main has been exceptional and its good to see him put together such a network of scouts after the years of mon mostly ignoring Europe.
He might have to cash in one or two of those chips next sumner if he wants to continue with this policy. It'll provide him with a bit of extra cash to speculate (maybe at a level above) and crucially free up some space in the squad. Loans would also be a good way of ensuring all/most of his signings get regular football and maximum opportunity to improve.
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What a contrast the skill and attitude of this number 7 to the previous one.
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What a contrast the skill and attitude of this number 7 to the previous one.
Big time. Though I note he seems to have rediscovered his scoring touch. Still his efforts at stopping Rooney's header a few weeks back show he is as gutless as ever.
Would prefer to see Bacuna stay at right back but suspect he will have to be thrown into midfield because of our problems there.
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Would prefer to see Bacuna stay at right back but suspect he will have to be thrown into midfield because of our problems there.
Also because we now we have a good right back in Lowton too, so the risk v reward of moving Bacuna is in our favour.
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Would prefer to see Bacuna stay at right back but suspect he will have to be thrown into midfield because of our problems there.
Also because we know we have a good right back in Lowton too, so the risk v reward of moving Bacuna is in our favour.
I would say Lowton is a good footballer but a poor defender. We miss him more going forward when he isnt playing that at the back. I think Bacuna's influence in 3 of the 4 clean sheets can be underestimated (he was crap at left back v West Ham). He didnt give Redmond a sniff of it v Norwich, nor Bellamy v Cardiff, cant remember who Hull had up against him.
Can only remember one mistake from Bacuna so far that has cost us, he was one of a few players culpable in Lukaku's goal. Going forward he probably isnt as effective as Lowton yet but still gets in good positions and creates chances when he does. Cant remember if it was v Spurs or Everton where he was wide open for a tap in but Benteke went alone and missed.
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I would rather have Lowton in the team than kea.
Bacuna add something to our midfield which is too static with kea , Lowton is a decent enough right back who could work well in tandem with bacuna on the right.
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I would rather have Lowton in the team than kea.
Bacuna add something to our midfield which is too static with kea , Lowton is a decent enough right back who could work well in tandem with bacuna on the right.
I think as a combination the two of them could be awesome. They compliment each other in many ways.
My biggest concern would be having Bacuna in the KEA/Sylla role (I'm not sure he has the strength/height for the middle - although hopefully he would mirror delph who is a similar build/athlete). Therefore I'd prefer that he takes the Weimann role for the immediate future and see how he adapts.
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Bacuna is a more effective all-round player than Lowton because he's faster, and pace is everything in English football. It means he can get back and clean up when he makes a mistake.
Having said that, Lowton is by some distance the best crosser of the ball we have at the club. I'd almost be inclined to play Bacuna at right back, Lowton in front of him, and have them overlap.
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Bacuna is a more effective all-round player than Lowton because he's faster, and pace is everything in English football. It means he can get back and clean up when he makes a mistake.
Having said that, Lowton is by some distance the best crosser of the ball we have at the club. I'd almost be inclined to play Bacuna at right back, Lowton in front of him, and have them overlap.
I'd be tempted with this. I think not only is Lowton our best crosser he's actually one of our better footballers. He's comfortable on the ball, quite clever and reads the game well. I think he'd make a better midfielder than KEA to be honest, and Westy isn't pulling up trees at the moment either.
I'd have no problems playing Lowts slightly advanced of Bacuna, because it would allow Lowton not to have to worry quite as much defensively, where positionally he's still suspect. I think like Barry he could make the step into midfield.
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It would be nice if Bacuna and Lowton could emulate the telepathy Baines and Pienaar have got going for Everton on their left side.
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Does Lowton have any experience playing in midfield?
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It sounds like a good idea playing Lowton further up the field, but one of the reasons he gets in good positions for crossing is the fact that he runs from deep to deliver them,so if he's already advanced i dont think he'd get the same amount of room. If he's playing behind Bacuna he would get this, plus Bacuna has the speed and brains to cover Lowton runs, something worth looking at i think.
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I think them overlapping and interchanging is the best approach. Lowton always crosses best from deeper too, so moving him forward might nullify that.
But they should, in theory, make a very, very effective pairing down the right hand side.
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When the ball hits the net
From a free-kick you can bet
its bacuna
nah, that's shit.
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I think them overlapping and interchanging is the best approach. Lowton always crosses best from deeper too, so moving him forward might nullify that.
But they should, in theory, make a very, very effective pairing down the right hand side.
I wouldn't mind seeing Bacuna playing in a CAM type role, his creativity and flair is everything we've been missing in recent weeks, and when he got into those central positions against Cardiff, the game changed and we got our two goals. Keep Lowton at Right Back, and keep the 4-3-3 system, with Bacuna playing ahead of Delph and Sylla.
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I think them overlapping and interchanging is the best approach. Lowton always crosses best from deeper too, so moving him forward might nullify that.
But they should, in theory, make a very, very effective pairing down the right hand side.
I wouldn't mind seeing Bacuna playing in a CAM type role, his creativity and flair is everything we've been missing in recent weeks, and when he got into those central positions against Cardiff, the game changed and we got our two goals. Keep Lowton at Right Back, and keep the 4-3-3 system, with Bacuna playing ahead of Delph and Sylla.
Bacuna's pass success rate against Cardiff was 67%. That's not CAM material.
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That includes crosses though.
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Westwood, Delph and Bacuna in the middle for me, Lowton right back. Think Bacuna is a better bet than Sylla and we need one of Westy or KEA to screen the defence imo as Delph, Sylla and Bacuna are quite similar in that they all like charging around a lot/have great engines, but i don't see any of them as being disciplined enough to playing holding midfield, it would also not be playing to their strengths imo.
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Personally I don't think Bacuna is ready yet for a midfield role. I think he is better playing at the back where everything is happening in front of him and he can attack into the area in front of him. I don't think he has developed the vision to be a decent midfielder and gets caught in possession too often.
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He's doing a very good job at right back, why mess around with that right now? He's better defensively than Lowton so I wouldn't change that going into the Albion game. It's an option in home games like Sunderland though.
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He's doing a very good job at right back, why mess around with that right now? He's better defensively than Lowton so I wouldn't change that going into the Albion game. It's an option in home games like Sunderland though.
Primarily because the balance of our midfield and attack is not quite right at the moment. Furthermore Lowton proved last year that he is a premiership quality player (we can't afford to have too many out of the side). It's tough on Bacuna, as he's playing well, but its an experiment worth trying.
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Personally I don't think Bacuna is ready yet for a midfield role. I think he is better playing at the back where everything is happening in front of him and he can attack into the area in front of him. I don't think he has developed the vision to be a decent midfielder and gets caught in possession too often.
Yes I agree with that. Against Liverpool he looked totally lost in MF. But he has gained confidence since and I think will get better all round as the season moves on .....
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Matt Lowton and Leandro Bacuna are the right men for Aston Villa's derby trip to West Bromwich Albion next week.
Paul Lambert has generally preferred to play either/or during the first quarter of the Premier League season with Lowton losing his right-back berth to Bacuna for the most part.
But the pair proved they can be effective together during a satisfying finish in the 2-0 victory over Cardiff and Lambert should be tempted to play them both from the start at The Hawthorns on Monday – Lowton at right-back and Bacuna at right midfield.
Lowton’s arrival from the bench for the final 16 minutes was a crucial moment in the win over Malky Mackay’s men and his presence on the field played a part in the long-awaited first and second goals.
His introduction freed Bacuna, who had been playing as a conventional full-back, to operate further up the field in a midfield role with Lowton coming on at right-back. Within two minutes of the change, Bacuna’s forward burst resulted in the 30-yard free-kick from which the Dutch star whipped in Villa’s first goal in more than seven-and-a-half hours.
Lowton was directly involved in the goal that sealed the victory, getting into the box to nod the ball back into the path of Libor Kozak, who made it two with a close-ranger header.
At a time when Villa are not overly blessed with in-form options down their right flank, it seems the Lowton-Bacuna axis could be the solution.
With Andi Weimann suffering a lull and a hamstring problem, Villa are deprived of the player who marauded down the right last season. Even if the Austrian is passed fit, so far he has not carried the same threat this term.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/feature-matt-lowton-leandro-bacuna-6318549?
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Personally I don't think Bacuna is ready yet for a midfield role. I think he is better playing at the back where everything is happening in front of him and he can attack into the area in front of him. I don't think he has developed the vision to be a decent midfielder and gets caught in possession too often.
is the correct answer. Much better at right back (at the moment) - might possibly develop into a decent midfielder but is already a good full back
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He is a really good FB, but then so is Lowton. And when you factor in that we've been struggling further forward, it's worth seeing what a player of Bacuna's versatility can do there.
I'd be trying him in Weimann's spot against Albion.
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We've seen Bacuna in central midfield for what 2 hours so far, Seems a bit soon to be suggesting he can't cut it there and we should keep him at full back. He didn't have a great game against Liverpool, but their midfield has been one of the srongest in the league this year so it's a bit harsh to write him off because of it.
I'd like to see Bacuna tucked in on the right of a 3 in the middle with Delph the same on the left and Westwood holding, I think Bacuna can offer the same drive and aggression that Sylla did last year but also has a bit more about him going forward, add in that he's clearly going to be a goal threat from free-kicks (and hopefully in open play soon) and it's well worth him getting a run of 4-5 games in there, especially seeing as Lowton looked much better than he had earlier in the season when he came on.
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If Gabby's out I'd play Weimann jus off Benteke with a 4 behind of Bacuna Delph Westie and Tonev. Lowton right back.
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Seems strange to suggest that Bacuna lacks the vision to play in midfield, when we are essentially playing Gabby and Weiman there, both of whom are unquestionably weak in this department. Give him a go, looks very prmoising IMO.
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If Gabby's out I'd play Weimann jus off Benteke with a 4 behind of Bacuna Delph Westie and Tonev. Lowton right back.
If we went with that team, I'd tweak it slightly and play it as a midfield diamond. Even if Gabby is fit, we could still try it with him in for Weimann.
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We could move between a flat 4 and a diamond with a midfield of Bacuna, Westwood, Delph and Tonev. It might be a bit static with Benteke and Kozak up front though.
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A diamond midfield would be a really bad idea.
We don't have anyone to play the forward role in there. At least with a 433 we have Gabby and Weimann drifting into there sometimes.
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It's where Tonev started v Cardiff. Though I agree that's not an entirely convincing prospect and as a general rule I don't like the formation. But if we're going to play benteke and kozak then lambert would either play 352 or a diamond I'm sure (or maybe two wide players tucked in quite narrow). He'd never play a MON-style 442 with two wingers I don't think?
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Bit of a bump for Leandro. What we reckon folks? He's been a snip at (apparently) just under a million.
5 goals and counting. He's fitted in well where-ever he's been asked to play. He did have a poor spell at right back around Nov-Dec time, but at his age and in a secondary position that will happen. That said he's looked good again since the turn of the year. Defensively his pace has helped him cover up for any positional issues, but he's also got forward well at times.
We had several discussions raging a few weeks back about most of Lamberts cheap signings not turning a profit. However I don't think anyone could argue that Bacuna's value has probably skyrocketed. He's adaptable, he's a goal threat, quick and works very hard. He's probably a £5 mill player now and counting.
Hope he keeps it up for the remainder of this season and into next. The funny thing is I don't think Lambert may have expected Bacuna to feature quite so predominently in his first season. He seemed to be a young utility player who could cover for the absences of players in 2-3 positions. As it happens, Lowtons poor start has seen Bacuna feature a lot and he's risen to it well. In all honesty I think he's been better this season than Lowton was last.
That goal was brilliantly taken as well it must be said.
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I think he is a good player with the promise to be very good. He is quick, has good technique and has done really well to bag 5 goals from full back.
I think he is more a midfielder though. His pace helps him out of a lot of trouble, but I would like to see him wide or in the hole.
A good signing and perhps typifies the risk in buying £1 million players; Tonev and Luna look quite poor at the moment, where as Bacuna has done very well. For every Bacuna and Westwood who are up to it, there will be three or four who aren't.
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I thought he took the goal very well yesterday. Nice to have a full back/midfielder who can finish.
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Very early in the summer I called him as the summer signing who'd have the biggest impact, there was just something I liked about the footage I'd seen of him and I thought he'd adapt well. I also loved his early interviews, he seemed so happy to be here. I'm really pleased for him that things have gone so well and I like having someone who we can genuinely move into 2-3 positions and get a good performance.
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I thought he took the goal very well yesterday. Nice to have a full back/midfielder who can finish.
Versatile and also chipping in with a few goals and set pieces - excellent value for money - delighted .
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I reckon between Lowton and Bacuna we could have the right back slot sorted for the next 5 years. Neither is perfect but they're likely to improve due to their age and experience. Not bad for about 2-3m quid.
Hopefully the competition between the pair will push them both forward. Alternatively if Lowton has the hump for whatever reason we could cash in for a small profit. It's an area where Lambert has done well.
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What did he cost us, £1.5m? He's not always looked totally convincing in some games but that's to be expected in his first season in English football. I think he's been a super buy for the money.
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Seems to be improving week by week and probably has the best first touch at the club.
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I'd rather see Lowton at RB and Bacuna RM. We'd see the best out of both of them. And it would mean Weimann not playing out of position.
Bacuna is good, especially going forward, not sure about him as defensively.
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Bacuna is one we would make a profit on.
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He is only 22 as well isn't he? He looks a good prospect indeeed. His goal yesterday was really well taken.
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I like him going forward but I'm not a huge fan of his defensively. We definitely need a new right back, Bacuna can play further up then.
One thing that annoys me, and it's probably a criticism of Lambert too, is his tendency to hoof it aimlessly. I've noticed a few times where he's just smacked it up the pitch to no-one in particular. Really gets on my nerves!
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I'd rather see Lowton at RB and Bacuna RM. We'd see the best out of both of them. And it would mean Weimann not playing out of position.
Bacuna is good, especially going forward, not sure about him as defensively.
Me too but it seems Lowton is not involved recently - last season I thought Lowton was very good but seems to have lost his way somewhat - the Lowton bacuna right sided combination is a potent threat.
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Yer get Lowton in for me, marginally better than KEA.
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I like him going forward but I'm not a huge fan of his defensively. We definitely need a new right back, Bacuna can play further up then.
It would be well down on my list of priorities. Both are likely to improve and getting anyone in ahead of them will only hamper their progress.
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This young man could become as legendary as Ian Taylor.
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This young man could become as legendary as Ian Taylor.
Oh affers , you do make me smile :)
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I like him going forward but I'm not a huge fan of his defensively. We definitely need a new right back, Bacuna can play further up then.
It would be well down on my list of priorities. Both are likely to improve and getting anyone in ahead of them will only hamper their progress.
Possibly but I'd like to have a RB we know is good and also one who might be good in the future!
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I like him going forward but I'm not a huge fan of his defensively. We definitely need a new right back, Bacuna can play further up then.
It would be well down on my list of priorities. Both are likely to improve and getting anyone in ahead of them will only hamper their progress.
Possibly but I'd like to have a RB we know is good and also one who might be good in the future!
More important areas to sort than right back - it would be well down on my list of priorities.
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This young man could become as legendary as Ian Taylor.
Oh affers , you do make me smile :)
Monday morning, bright day, full week ahead to sort out worlds problem and a smiling eastie...what could be better?
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The minute he stopped and cut inside the Norwich player in the box yesterday, I knew he'd score. He is an excellent finisher, and has definitely got technique.
I'd rather he were played in midfield, though.
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That finish was class, he's such a strange player in that he does things of utter quality and then does stuff that's unbelievably bad.
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That finish was class, he's such a strange player in that he does things of utter quality and then does stuff that's unbelievably bad.
Still learning the game - he will make mistakes but he's developing nicely.
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I like the fact that when we get a free kick around the box I think Bacuna, for years I just knew we would not score.
I thought he played very well yesterday. The fact that he kept Redmond quiet was important.
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I like the fact that when we get a free kick around the box I think Bacuna, for years I just knew we would not score.
I thought he played very well yesterday. The fact that he kept Redmond quiet was important.
The last bit is important for me, Redmond was the worst player on the pitch, utterly anonymous and no shock when he went off, that's something Bacuna deserves credit for, he's done it to a few good left wingers this year, he's been made to looka mug a few times as well, but when he gets it right he completely closes down that side of the pitch.
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I thought he was excellent. His touch to wrong foot the defender before shooting was really top-drawer stuff. I just wish we could put him in more positions to have a shot on goal.
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Would be interested if someone could tell me how many goals this season have come from outside the front three in comparison to last season - it was very few last season , but this season bacuna, Delph and even Westwood have scored crackers.
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He's done very well this season, but remember that some of the young players from last year have suffered 'second season syndrome' so some caution and patience is still needed IMO.
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His defending admittedly against Norwich, was great yesterday, didnt go lunging in, and pressured and shadowed players constantly. It would be nice to have stats to back it up, but I counted numerous times when the attacker couldnt get past him, got frustrated and had to pass back to other players. He had a great game yesterday
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I thought he was excellent. His touch to wrong foot the defender before shooting was really top-drawer stuff. I just wish we could put him in more positions to have a shot on goal.
I just loved the fact he was there. Great run and superb finish. He seems to enjoy himself and has a great attitude, given time he really could be a very important player for us. The fact he's physically strong is another great advantage and for his first season, considering the price we paid, he looks to be another good signing.
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It was the second-time this season that he completely shackled Redmond.
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It was the second-time this season that he completely shackled Redmond.
I didn't realise he was playing until he went off.
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Allow me to pile on with the love in. I love his pace. Some point in the second half he sprinted back to cover Vlaar and stopped a breakthrough with a lovely tackle. Yesterday was one of the few times recently where I thought both our wingbacks were a huge asset to us. Speaking of which Bertrand also had an excellent game, fast, reads the game well. I hope he wants to be signed and we do sign him up in the summer.
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I say it quietly as it's not a formation I like but 352 may suit the players we currently have.
Okore / Vlaar / Clark compliment each other and are all reasonably comfortable on the ball. The new and improved Baker ready to fill in for either Clark or Vlaar, Herd/Lowton/Donnacien maybe for Okore. Bacuna is arguably a perfect wing back and Bennet and Luna would be less exposed.
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I don't think he's a full back. He's liable to drop a bollock, and was lucky to get away with that stupid handball at Newcastle. He has a punchable face too. Apart from all that he's alright.
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He definitely has a punchable face. But it's our face.
I really like him. I do think he'll be a regular midfielder for us eventually. Pacy, good technique and has an eye for goal. Is probably worth 5 times what we paid for him.
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Just realised his goal was with his weaker foot too.
It's Leandro
You know
Hard to believe it's not Ronaldo
Any good?
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We first saw him at Bochum and he really shone in that warm up game. He looked the pick of our summer signings.
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He does not have a punchable face. He is dashing and handsome and good at football and your all just jealous.
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Jesus if he has a punchable face most people I know need tackling with a baseball bat!
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I don't think he has a punchable face either. Has a boyish cuteness about him.
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Pardew is a punchable face. Bacuna's isn't.
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He does not have a punchable face. He is dashing and handsome and good at football and your all just jealous.
Gonna have to agree with the jealousy bit. I have it on good authority from two girlies that he is, in fact, "beautiful".
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If he wasn't a footballer he'd be in a boy band.
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Pardew is a punchable face. Bacuna's isn't.
Especially so if he puts the nut on you.
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He does not have a punchable face. He is dashing and handsome and good at football and your all just jealous.
Gonna have to agree with the jealousy bit. I have it on good authority from two girlies that he is, in fact, "beautiful".
I am a straight man and he gives me feelings that have me both confused and uncomfortable.
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I think it's time to sing
Can you hear the fans Leandro
To the tune of ABBA's Fernando
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He does not have a punchable face. He is dashing and handsome and good at football and your all just jealous.
Gonna have to agree with the jealousy bit. I have it on good authority from two girlies that he is, in fact, "beautiful".
My missus surprised me the other day as I watched the Leeds game on telly by walking into the room and exclaiming "Who is THAT handsome man??!" while Stephen Warnock was on screen. So apparently he is a good looking bloke.
For current Villa she has indicated she thinks Clark is a beautiful man.
Then again she married me so her tastes maybe suspect.
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If he wasn't a footballer he'd be in a boy band.
And if he weren't in a boy band he'd be in a Fiat 500 advert.
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Really good signing for under a 1m especially as he sort of replaced Holman.
I'd prefer him long term in midfield but he'll do at RB for now.
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He's really come on since I 1st saw him in pre season,obviously still quite raw & learning but he's now adapting to the pace of the English game & last 6 weeks has really improved.
Defiantly 1 of Lambert's better buys.
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I think it's time to sing
Can you hear the fans Leandro
To the tune of ABBA's Fernando
Bacuna Matata!!
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There has got to be someone who can come up with a ditty with the chorus Bacuna Matata.
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Coming up with it is one thing, getting it going is another.
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Bacuna Matata, what a wonderful face
Bacuna Matata, he looks underage
Right foot or left foot, his free kicks are ace
He's our prodigy, at AVFC, Bacuna Matata
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Bacuna Matata, what a wonderful face
Bacuna Matata, he looks underage
Right foot or left foot, his free kicks are ace
He's our prodigy, at AVFC, Bacuna Matata
Come on lads critique my attempt, is it shit or not >:(.
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Bacuna has been a very good signing in fairness to Lambert.
Still some very raw edges but lets face if he didnt have those he wouldnt be with us.
Playing right back most of the season and has more goals than Gabby or Weimann. Those five goals have been critical for us with our forwards not firing.
Good technically, quick, physically strong and follows up the play well. Think box to box midfielder role would suit him better and his positional sense needs a lot of work at right back.
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Bacuna Matata, what a wonderful face
Bacuna Matata, he looks underage
Right foot or left foot, his free kicks are ace
He's our prodigy, at AVFC, Bacuna Matata
Come on lads critique my attempt, is it shit or not >:(.
Sort out the last line and it'll be pretty good.
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Last line is a bit tricky. Help me out lads.
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What's with the signature Smirker?
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What's with the signature Smirker?
I liked the original post and tried to sig it in it's entirety but it wouldn't fit because of the character limit. Then I just couldn't be arsed to change it.
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It's like ayour Grandad is about to tell a tale but then forgets what he's talking about and just stops.
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I think the point where it cuts off is perfect, if that's not intended then it's a great coincidence.
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I'm starting to think Lambert has mental issues, the number of players who suddenly become out of favour is very odd. I wonder if leandro gave him a funny look.
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I'm starting to think Lambert has mental issues, the number of players who suddenly become out of favour is very odd. I wonder if leandro gave him a funny look.
Good point Malandro. I reckon there is much looking askance at BH these days. If they are not being given the slant eyes, then they are getting the scissor tackle, the dead leg, the virus infection, the tibia fracture or the querulous frown.
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Would have thought he would have been more involved than what he has been. To think of how well he played off the striker when we played Albion at home last season and how we've struggled in the final third this season.
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What's with the signature Smirker?
I liked the original post and tried to sig it in it's entirety but it wouldn't fit because of the character limit. Then I just couldn't be arsed to change it.
I love it.
I read it in a Rowely Birkin QC voice.
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What's with the signature Smirker?
I liked the original post and tried to sig it in it's entirety but it wouldn't fit because of the character limit. Then I just couldn't be arsed to change it.
I love it.
I read it in a Rowely Birkin QC voice.
.......... I'm afraid I was very drunk. It's the flatulence you see, errrr...
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Cairo!
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I thought he looked pretty lively in his cameo today. Nearly scored a screamer and actually took on and beat defenders.
I'd definitely have him in starting over Weimann or Gabby.
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I thought he looked pretty lively in his cameo today. Nearly scored a screamer and actually took on and beat defenders.
I'd definitely have him in starting over Weimann or Gabby.
Cameo being the important word. Not sure he can do it over 90 mins and def not at full back.
Back up player at best
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What's with the signature Smirker?
I liked the original post and tried to sig it in it's entirety but it wouldn't fit because of the character limit. Then I just couldn't be arsed to change it.
It is my favourite sig on here. Seriously.
Makes me laugh every time.
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I thought he looked pretty lively in his cameo today. Nearly scored a screamer and actually took on and beat defenders.
I'd definitely have him in starting over Weimann or Gabby.
Cameo being the important word. Not sure he can do it over 90 mins and def not at full back.
Back up player at best
"Not sure" - well, let's find out. He has done well and deserves a start or two. In a 3-5-2, I'd certainly have him in the mix somewhere.
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What's with the signature Smirker?
I liked the original post and tried to sig it in it's entirety but it wouldn't fit because of the character limit. Then I just couldn't be arsed to change it.
I love it.
I read it in a Rowely Birkin QC voice.
I think it's like Michael explaining to Alan Partridge about ladyboys when Lynne walks in, so I carry it on with "it lands on its wheels, and it starts first time and they just drive away."
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I thought he looked pretty lively in his cameo today. Nearly scored a screamer and actually took on and beat defenders.
I'd definitely have him in starting over Weimann or Gabby.
Cameo being the important word. Not sure he can do it over 90 mins and def not at full back.
Back up player at best
"Not sure" - well, let's find out. He has done well and deserves a start or two. In a 3-5-2, I'd certainly have him in the mix somewhere.
I agree. We look weak in wide areas and I have always liked him so wouldn't mind seeing him at least get some playing time over the Christmas period.
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Has had a fair share of stick but has played out of position(not sure what his best is)
Turned in his best performance yesterday in my opinion at right back such that Hutton may even find it difficult to displace him
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Was impressed with Bacuna v Sunderland. Hutton might struggle to win his place back.
Sherwood likes attacking full backs, which means we'll see less of Cissokho.
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I would still worry about him defensively against better sides than Sunderland.
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Leandro Carlos Bacuhino played like a Brazillian full back from the 70's yesterday. Long may it continue!
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Yesterday and in the second half against West Brom in the Cup, Bacuna has done well. Yesterday was his best game since joining. The key thing is getting him to attack. Lowton stays reasonably disciplined on the left, which gives Bacuna more freedom on the opposing side. But that is how to get the best out of Bacuna. Get him attacking, pushing the opposition back and using his pace.
I think we could well see a good future for him there. Defensively too he was also pretty solid yesterday, that one silly yellow card aside. When Leandro plays with a bit of confidence he looks a good player.
Perhaps we could play Leo against the mid-bottom half opposition and Hutton against the top 8 sides.
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Leandro Carlos Bacuhino played like a Brazillian full back from the 70's yesterday. Long may it continue!
More like Cafu according to Sir Tim
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Perhaps we could play Leo against the mid-bottom half opposition and Hutton against the top 8 sides.
I think the key is working with him on the training ground to get the defensive side right. Do that and we really would have a player on our hands.
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Think you are all getting carried away. He had one good 45 mins. There have been plenty of dire performances over the last 18 months. I prefer Hutton for his defensive strengths
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I'd agree right now, but there is certainly a player there in Bacuna and, if he's to be a RB, working with him to become more defensively solid is worth a try.
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I've always liked Bacuna, and it's worth remembering he is still only 23.
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Leandro Carlos Bacuhino played like a Brazillian full back from the 70's yesterday. Long may it continue!
More like Cafu according to Sir Tim
We already have Cafu on the books :)
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Mail yesterday
Aston Villa boss Tim Sherwood: We've almost had to teach Leandro Bacuna to play right-back - and it's worked!
Leandro Bacuna has completed a video crash course in becoming a right-back - and passed with flying colours, according to Tim Sherwood.
With Aston Villa down to just Ciaran Clark, Jores Okore and Matt Lowton in terms of specialist senior defenders, Bacuna has deputised at the back for the FA Cup victory over West Bromwich Albion and the Premier League win at Sunderland.
Bacuna has played there before under the previous management regime, but Sherwood acknowledges that it is not the Dutch utility man's natural position.
However, the new boss has been impressed with how Bacuna has taken tactical advice on board after watching footage of his own performances - and believes he could thrive at right-back in future.
"I thought Bacuna was excellent bearing in mind we have three fit defenders at the club," said Sherwood.
"Bacuna isn’t one of them. We’ve almost had to teach him to play right-back.
"Him being a stodgy, stay-where-you-are right-back isn’t his game so we’ve shown him some videos of how he plays and how we want him to play.
"He’s enjoying it and he could be a very good right-back for the future of this club."
With Ron Vlaar, Philippe Senderos, Nathan Baker, Aly Cissokho and Kieran Richardson injured and Alan Hutton suspended, Sherwood had to again draft rookie left-back Lewis Kinsella into the matchday squad at Sunderland.
Hutton will be available for next weekend's home match against Swansea after serving a two-match suspension, while Sherwood is hoping at least one of the backline casualties recovers to return to contention.
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Think you are all getting carried away. He had one good 45 mins. There have been plenty of dire performances over the last 18 months. I prefer Hutton for his defensive strengths
Undoubtedly true but Hutton isn't as good in the attacking third as Bacuna showed he could be. Maybe Hutton should play in certain games but I think Sherwood targeted their left flank giving Bacuna licence to get forward as much as possible. You can't drop anyone from yesterday so it'll interesting how Bacuna responds against a different question against Swansea.
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Think you are all getting carried away. He had one good 45 mins. There have been plenty of dire performances over the last 18 months. I prefer Hutton for his defensive strengths
I've liked Bacuna from the start, he does need to work on his concentration in defence but otherwise he's ideal for a fullback, he can run all day, he's fast (both over a couple of yards and longer distance) he's willing and capable with the ball at his feet, he's got a decent cross and scores the odd goal. Add in the fact he'll get 2-3 free kicks a year and he's definitely worth sticking with, I think he's a better long term option than Hutton who I still think is a liability because he loses his temper.
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The two best right backs I've seen at the Villa, Gidman and Swain, were both wingers turned fullback.
If he turns out half as good as that pair we'll have a wonderful attacking right back.
I've been impressed with Hutton this season, but he doesn't seem to have the pace to attack a full back and get a cross in.
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from GB's wiki entry
Bale began his professional career at Southampton, playing at left back and earning acclaim as a free kick specialist. He moved to Tottenham Hotspur in 2007, for an eventual £7 million fee. During his time at Spurs, managerial and tactical shifts saw him transform into a more offensive player.
Otherside I know but mmmm
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A friend of my son's has done some work or delivered something at Bacuna's house. apparently it is covered in Villa memorabilia - he loves the club.
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Was impressed with Bacuna v Sunderland. Hutton might struggle to win his place back.
Sherwood likes attacking full backs, which means we'll see less of Cissokho.
Wouldnt be surprised if we never saw him in a Villa shirt again.
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I'm not ready to ditch Hutton yet. He has been our player of the season by a country mile and he fully deserves to be our first choice at the moment. But if Bacuna keeps the pressure on him or adds an extra option, then that is great too.
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I like Bacuna a lot but I'd still prefer it if he only played RB in games where he isn't likely to do a lot of defending (eg against a terrible Sunderland side, and at home against teams managed by Tony Pulis).
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Yeah, in his first season he'd come in as RB and look good for a couple of games and then teams would catch on and start exposing him. Not saying that trend will definitely continue under Sherwood but I certainly wouldn't be upset if he and Hutton rotated depending on the opponent.
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I'm not ready to ditch Hutton yet. He has been our player of the season by a country mile and he fully deserves to be our first choice at the moment. But if Bacuna keeps the pressure on him or adds an extra option, then that is great too.
I agree. Hutton has been a revelation this year and showed amazing character, he stood up when the majority of players went missing in matches before Sherwood's arrival. He's helped with some assists (the last being cross for the penalty against WBA for example) as well as being solid at the back too.
That said Bacuna has been excellent and brought a real threat going forward. Long may it continue.
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His performance on Saturday was genuinely "excellent"...but I would have Hutton back in there for Swansea and some of the tough away games coming up. I just think Bacuna plays better further forward which he was allowed to do on Sat because Sunderland were so poor.
Hutton's not too bad going forward himself and he's solid defensively.
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I would have Hutton at RB and Bacuna in front of him on the right side of midfield.
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I thought he was brilliant Saturday
I had a moan at him earlier on when he shot instead of passing which I apologize for because the rest of the game he was immense, he worked brilliant with Charlie and TC .
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I would have Hutton at RB and Bacuna in front of him on the right side of midfield.
Not leaving out N'Zogbia. he was outstanding on Saturday, and against West Brom.
I'd keep the same team against Swansea. Bacuna was fantastic.
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His performance on Saturday was genuinely "excellent"...but I would have Hutton back in there for Swansea and some of the tough away games coming up. I just think Bacuna plays better further forward which he was allowed to do on Sat because Sunderland were so poor.
Hutton's not too bad going forward himself and he's solid defensively.
I'm not sure I would change things for the Swansea game, as I think the players who played against Sunderland deserve to keep their places. It makes a nice change to be talking about selection dilemmas though!!
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His performance on Saturday was genuinely "excellent"...but I would have Hutton back in there for Swansea and some of the tough away games coming up. I just think Bacuna plays better further forward which he was allowed to do on Sat because Sunderland were so poor.
Hutton's not too bad going forward himself and he's solid defensively.
I'm not sure I would change things for the Swansea game, as I think the players who played against Sunderland deserve to keep their places. It makes a nice change to be talking about selection dilemmas though!!
I agree
Especially at home against Swansea
You can't drop a player who played that good.
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Think you are all getting carried away. He had one good 45 mins. There have been plenty of dire performances over the last 18 months. I prefer Hutton for his defensive strengths
I've liked Bacuna from the start, he does need to work on his concentration in defence but otherwise he's ideal for a fullback, he can run all day, he's fast (both over a couple of yards and longer distance) he's willing and capable with the ball at his feet, he's got a decent cross and scores the odd goal. Add in the fact he'll get 2-3 free kicks a year and he's definitely worth sticking with, I think he's a better long term option than Hutton who I still think is a liability because he loses his temper.
Same here. He scored about 5 goals last season as well?
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Think you are all getting carried away. He had one good 45 mins. There have been plenty of dire performances over the last 18 months. I prefer Hutton for his defensive strengths
I've liked Bacuna from the start, he does need to work on his concentration in defence but otherwise he's ideal for a fullback, he can run all day, he's fast (both over a couple of yards and longer distance) he's willing and capable with the ball at his feet, he's got a decent cross and scores the odd goal. Add in the fact he'll get 2-3 free kicks a year and he's definitely worth sticking with, I think he's a better long term option than Hutton who I still think is a liability because he loses his temper.
Same here. He scored about 5 goals last season as well?
I've been looking for an excuse to repost this:
(http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/4076097/Bacuna1bLong.gif?_ga=1.89706648.2017877770.1400063008)
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I'm not ready to ditch Hutton yet. He has been our player of the season by a country mile and he fully deserves to be our first choice at the moment. But if Bacuna keeps the pressure on him or adds an extra option, then that is great too.
I think how well Hutton has played has a danger of being overstated because he'd been written off. Player of the season this year is Clark by a long way, with Okore and Hutton fighting for 2nd place and even then Hutton hasn't played as well recently whereas Clark and Okore have just been getting better and better.
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I'm not ready to ditch Hutton yet. He has been our player of the season by a country mile and he fully deserves to be our first choice at the moment. But if Bacuna keeps the pressure on him or adds an extra option, then that is great too.
I think how well Hutton has played has a danger of being overstated because he'd been written off. Player of the season this year is Clark by a long way, with Okore and Hutton fighting for 2nd place and even then Hutton hasn't played as well recently whereas Clark and Okore have just been getting better and better.
Respectfully disagree pal. Clark is rightly getting plaudits, but not 6 months ago he looked like he had no chance of making the grade. He had championship player written all over him. He's suddenly so impressive due to the severity of his improvement. When discussing player of the season I think consistency matters and Hutton more than any other player has consistently performed really well in a largely struggling team.
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I'm not ready to ditch Hutton yet. He has been our player of the season by a country mile and he fully deserves to be our first choice at the moment. But if Bacuna keeps the pressure on him or adds an extra option, then that is great too.
I think how well Hutton has played has a danger of being overstated because he'd been written off. Player of the season this year is Clark by a long way, with Okore and Hutton fighting for 2nd place and even then Hutton hasn't played as well recently whereas Clark and Okore have just been getting better and better.
Respectfully disagree pal. Clark is rightly getting plaudits, but not 6 months ago he looked like he had no chance of making the grade. He had championship player written all over him. He's suddenly so impressive due to the severity of his improvement. When discussing player of the season I think consistency matters and Hutton more than any other player has consistently performed really well in a largely struggling team.
As I say, I think Hutton has dropped off a fair bit, I don't think he's had a particularly good game since the new year. For Clark I think his only truly poor performances have been in the 2 games against Arsenal, the first he looked off the pace and the 2nd the whole team were horrific (including Hutton). He might not get the official award but for me he's been key to us not being cast adrift during the dire performances under Lambert.
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Hutton is a decent right back to have around but he doesn't really have an end product when he gets forward, his crossing is awful.
Bacuna provides a very different option - he can be a threat and scare the life out of opposition when he's bombing forward. He can defend but probably not well enough to sustain it for a long run of games. So the solution probably is to take each game on it's own merit and pick one or the other. Bacuna should certainly start against Swansea. Man Utd away? He would be good on the counter but can he handle the defensive side in a game like that?
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Clark has been our best player since he came into the side. But he did miss the first third of the season
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His performance on Saturday was genuinely "excellent"...but I would have Hutton back in there for Swansea and some of the tough away games coming up. I just think Bacuna plays better further forward which he was allowed to do on Sat because Sunderland were so poor.
Hutton's not too bad going forward himself and he's solid defensively.
I'm not sure I would change things for the Swansea game, as I think the players who played against Sunderland deserve to keep their places. It makes a nice change to be talking about selection dilemmas though!!
I agree
Especially at home against Swansea
You can't drop a player who played that good.
As Damo says, ideally I'd have Bacuna further forward from the start, but that would mean other changes to the team and it's good to have the problem of who to leave out/put in after the team played so well on Saturday.
TS's selection will be interesting to see.
Bacuna in at full-back would clearly show an intent to go at Swansea from the off.
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Think you are all getting carried away. He had one good 45 mins. There have been plenty of dire performances over the last 18 months. I prefer Hutton for his defensive strengths
I've liked Bacuna from the start, he does need to work on his concentration in defence but otherwise he's ideal for a fullback, he can run all day, he's fast (both over a couple of yards and longer distance) he's willing and capable with the ball at his feet, he's got a decent cross and scores the odd goal. Add in the fact he'll get 2-3 free kicks a year and he's definitely worth sticking with, I think he's a better long term option than Hutton who I still think is a liability because he loses his temper.
Same here. He scored about 5 goals last season as well?
I've been looking for an excuse to repost this:
(http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/4076097/Bacuna1bLong.gif?_ga=1.89706648.2017877770.1400063008)
Superb!! I love the way he's got up there so quickly he has time to outstretch his hands - "C'mon! Where's the pass?" before he pings it in the corner.
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That goal comes from a fantastic first touch, took the defender out of the game completely.
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He's a talent. Still a bit raw, but has a good turn of pace. A bargain signing really.
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I've thought since we signed Bacuna that there is a decent player in there, it's just been a case of figuring out his best position. Up until now he's quite frankly been an absolute defensive liability at right back, but I'm convinced this can be overcome with decent coaching, which he's not had before. Same with Lowton, undoubtedly a talented player, but let himself down too often doing his primary job of defending. If Lowton & Bacuna can be coached to be more solid & consistent defensively then we have 3 very good right backs on our hands.
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Lowton seems quite capable at left back too so it might be him or Bennett playing there next season with funds being used on more creative types.
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Lowton seems quite capable at left back too so it might be him or Bennett playing there next season with funds being used on more creative types.
I doubt we'll ever see Bennett in the Villa team again. A Premier League standard player he ain't.
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When he arrived I remember an interview that suggested he didn't feel comfortable defensively when playing at RB, even though he often found himself covering there. There was also a suggestion that he would be open to playing in the middle of the park. It's obvious to anyone that watches him that his talents lie in getting forward and supplying forwards and running at defenders. However The Sainted Tim obviously feels he can rehabilitate CN'Z so I can't see that he will get too many chances out wide, sadly. One of those players that have been inhibited by their flexibility and, often, there good nature in not demanding to play where they want.
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When he arrived I remember an interview that suggested he didn't feel comfortable defensively when playing at RB, even though he often found himself covering there. There was also a suggestion that he would be open to playing in the middle of the park. It's obvious to anyone that watches him that his talents lie in getting forward and supplying forwards and running at defenders. However The Sainted Tim obviously feels he can rehabilitate CN'Z so I can't see that he will get too many chances out wide, sadly. One of those players that have been inhibited by their flexibility and, often, there good nature in not demanding to play where they want.
Another thing I noticed during the Sunderland and Albion game's is Bacuna and N'Zogbia appear to have developed an understanding. There were times when N'Zogbia tracked back when Bacuna bombed forwards. There will definitely be times when we might look a bit short at the back, but it's refreshing to see players with a zest and the ability to run forwards instead of looking for the sideways pass.
Bacuna should play on Saturday for me. You can't punish a player that played so well by dropping him.
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Lowton seems quite capable at left back too so it might be him or Bennett playing there next season with funds being used on more creative types.
I doubt we'll ever see Bennett in the Villa team again. A Premier League standard player he ain't.
I dunno - maybe Sherwood can get something out of him?
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Bacuna was excellent the other day, but he faced virtually no threat from the opposition. His defence will need work.
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Lowton seems quite capable at left back too so it might be him or Bennett playing there next season with funds being used on more creative types.
I doubt we'll ever see Bennett in the Villa team again. A Premier League standard player he ain't.
It wasn't long ago that people were saying the same about Baker and Clark. Even Delph had that a couple of years ago.
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Lowton seems quite capable at left back too so it might be him or Bennett playing there next season with funds being used on more creative types.
I doubt we'll ever see Bennett in the Villa team again. A Premier League standard player he ain't.
Bennett never looked like he thought he belonged at this level, when things went for him there were sparks of quality but as soon as he made a mistake his head went. If Sherwood can get him confident that he's good enough he probably is (if that makes sense).
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I'd like to see Bennett back and given a chance under Sherwood. There was glimpses of a good player there, especially going forward.
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Crumbs, Bennett was shit. Sherwood would truly be a miracle worker if he can sort him out.
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Lowton seems quite capable at left back too so it might be him or Bennett playing there next season with funds being used on more creative types.
I doubt we'll ever see Bennett in the Villa team again. A Premier League standard player he ain't.
It wasn't long ago that people were saying the same about Baker and Clark. Even Delph had that a couple of years ago.
Yep, I said that about all of them,
and Nzogbia who's had two really good games now in the last 4 years
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Crumbs, Bennett was shit. Sherwood would truly be a miracle worker if he can sort him out.
I fully expect the resurrection of not only Bennett, but of Tonev, Luna, Sylla and Helenius!
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Lowton seems quite capable at left back too so it might be him or Bennett playing there next season with funds being used on more creative types.
I doubt we'll ever see Bennett in the Villa team again. A Premier League standard player he ain't.
It wasn't long ago that people were saying the same about Baker and Clark. Even Delph had that a couple of years ago.
I am almost at a point where I think I need to erase my memory of how our players played under Lambert. The fact that N'Zogbia has come in and looked excellent, as well as Gabby, then pretty much everyone deserves another chance. Maybe even Tonev will get a shot on target.
Ok maybe that's a step too far.
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The thing about Tony Moon was, that in the pre-season he looked decent. Then for the first few games (Arsenal in particular) he looked really good. Soon the forward runs began to dwindle (I've no doubt this was down to Lambert) and of course defensively he was incredibly worrying. Particularly that thing he'd do of running backwards with his arms flapping clumsily behind him.
That said there were hints of quality going forward and he's another player that I'd be curious to see what Sherwood could get out of. We'll need to have a good look at both Bennett and Moon again. Cissokho is okay defensively but there's no hiding the fact that he's terrible with the ball at his feet. Luna and Bennett at their best looked comfortable on the ball. Get them confident. Get them attacking they could still work out for us. Lowton has done very well since coming in at left back. A few months ago I thought he was done for at this level. So Sherwood could well get a few others turning their game around.
We'll see. I don't think we actually need to do that much in the summer window now. Make Sinclair and TC permanent. Add 2-3 decent additions and see if we can get something out of 2-3 of bomb-squad 2.
As for Leo Bacuna. The more confident he gets, the better he'll get. I think he's done well defensively in the last two games. In no small part because he's pushed the opposing left back, back and been on the front foot. But going forward he's taking players on and he's running at players with a bit of confidence now. He's looking decent.
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The thing about Tony Moon was, that in the pre-season he looked decent. Then for the first few games (Arsenal in particular) he looked really good. Soon the forward runs began to dwindle (I've no doubt this was down to Lambert) and of course defensively he was incredibly worrying. Particularly that thing he'd do of running backwards with his arms flapping clumsily behind him.
That said there were hints of quality going forward and he's another player that I'd be curious to see what Sherwood could get out of. We'll need to have a good look at both Bennett and Moon again. Cissokho is okay defensively but there's no hiding the fact that he's terrible with the ball at his feet. Luna and Bennett at their best looked comfortable on the ball. Get them confident. Get them attacking they could still work out for us. Lowton has done very well since coming in at left back. A few months ago I thought he was done for at this level. So Sherwood could well get a few others turning their game around.
We'll see. I don't think we actually need to do that much in the summer window now. Make Sinclair and TC permanent. Add 2-3 decent additions and see if we can get something out of 2-3 of bomb-squad 2.
As for Leo Bacuna. The more confident he gets, the better he'll get. I think he's done well defensively in the last two games. In no small part because he's pushed the opposing left back, back and been on the front foot. But going forward he's taking players on and he's running at players with a bit of confidence now. He's looking decent.
This really is tosh - talk about about a positive spin on things. I'm surprised you haven't said that we ought to resign Bowery next just to prove Sherwood could get something out of him too.
Luna was hopeless. Incredibly hopeless in a long line of hopeless full backs. Bennet wasn't much better.
Lowton was always half decent on the ball and the best of a bad lot but that's not saying anything. As for the Bacuna/Hutton debate, I'd say neither are good enough for what we hope might be a comfortable mid table side next season.
Hopefully we'll get rid of the lot of them at the end of the season (and yes, I realise Hutton has got a new contract).
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As TS said, he had to teach Bacuna how to play as a full back... which does raise further questions about the previous manager's coaching "talents".
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The thing about Tony Moon was, that in the pre-season he looked decent. Then for the first few games (Arsenal in particular) he looked really good. Soon the forward runs began to dwindle (I've no doubt this was down to Lambert) and of course defensively he was incredibly worrying. Particularly that thing he'd do of running backwards with his arms flapping clumsily behind him.
That said there were hints of quality going forward and he's another player that I'd be curious to see what Sherwood could get out of. We'll need to have a good look at both Bennett and Moon again. Cissokho is okay defensively but there's no hiding the fact that he's terrible with the ball at his feet. Luna and Bennett at their best looked comfortable on the ball. Get them confident. Get them attacking they could still work out for us. Lowton has done very well since coming in at left back. A few months ago I thought he was done for at this level. So Sherwood could well get a few others turning their game around.
We'll see. I don't think we actually need to do that much in the summer window now. Make Sinclair and TC permanent. Add 2-3 decent additions and see if we can get something out of 2-3 of bomb-squad 2.
As for Leo Bacuna. The more confident he gets, the better he'll get. I think he's done well defensively in the last two games. In no small part because he's pushed the opposing left back, back and been on the front foot. But going forward he's taking players on and he's running at players with a bit of confidence now. He's looking decent.
This really is tosh - talk about about a positive spin on things. I'm surprised you haven't said that we ought to resign Bowery next just to prove Sherwood could get something out of him too.
Luna was hopeless. Incredibly hopeless in a long line of hopeless full backs. Bennet wasn't much better.
Lowton was always half decent on the ball and the best of a bad lot but that's not saying anything. As for the Bacuna/Hutton debate, I'd say neither are good enough for what we hope might be a comfortable mid table side next season.
Hopefully we'll get rid of the lot of them at the end of the season (and yes, I realise Hutton has got a new contract).
No I wouldn't go as far as Bowery. Or Tonev, or Sylla.
But I'd still be giving one of Bennett or Luna another chance. They've had their moments. I agree they've been largely poor, but they've also had games where they looked the business. Luna looked a snip for the first few games, then it all went a bit pear shaped.
Again though, TS has done well to get some players playing well. He may do it for 2-3 others, he might not.
We're short of options at left back. Money will be tight, so much depends on the form at the end of this season and into pre-season, though what I will say is that a new first choice Left back is still one of the key signings we need to make. I'm only talking about possibly re-evaluating Luna or Bennett as second or third choice.
As for right back. I think that's the least of our worries. If Hutton, Lowton and Bacuna keep up their form, we've got good enough options for a mid-table side. The fact is we have a mid-table quality squad as it is, it's just our previous manager wasn't getting the best out of the players.
Okay the idea of Moon and Bennett being given another go might seem like overly optimistic tosh, but binning Lowton, Hutton and Bacuna? That's the flip side of the coin and most certainly tosh.
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Bacuna has always looked IMO that there's a good player in him, he's just been inconsistent and at least at times suspect defensively. I think he'd make a good right midfielder, but he might lack necessary dribbling skills.
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The thing about Tony Moon was, that in the pre-season he looked decent. Then for the first few games (Arsenal in particular) he looked really good. Soon the forward runs began to dwindle (I've no doubt this was down to Lambert) and of course defensively he was incredibly worrying. Particularly that thing he'd do of running backwards with his arms flapping clumsily behind him.
That said there were hints of quality going forward and he's another player that I'd be curious to see what Sherwood could get out of. We'll need to have a good look at both Bennett and Moon again. Cissokho is okay defensively but there's no hiding the fact that he's terrible with the ball at his feet. Luna and Bennett at their best looked comfortable on the ball. Get them confident. Get them attacking they could still work out for us. Lowton has done very well since coming in at left back. A few months ago I thought he was done for at this level. So Sherwood could well get a few others turning their game around.
We'll see. I don't think we actually need to do that much in the summer window now. Make Sinclair and TC permanent. Add 2-3 decent additions and see if we can get something out of 2-3 of bomb-squad 2.
As for Leo Bacuna. The more confident he gets, the better he'll get. I think he's done well defensively in the last two games. In no small part because he's pushed the opposing left back, back and been on the front foot. But going forward he's taking players on and he's running at players with a bit of confidence now. He's looking decent.
This really is tosh - talk about about a positive spin on things. I'm surprised you haven't said that we ought to resign Bowery next just to prove Sherwood could get something out of him too.
Luna was hopeless. Incredibly hopeless in a long line of hopeless full backs. Bennet wasn't much better.
Lowton was always half decent on the ball and the best of a bad lot but that's not saying anything. As for the Bacuna/Hutton debate, I'd say neither are good enough for what we hope might be a comfortable mid table side next season.
Hopefully we'll get rid of the lot of them at the end of the season (and yes, I realise Hutton has got a new contract).
No I wouldn't go as far as Bowery. Or Tonev, or Sylla.
But I'd still be giving one of Bennett or Luna another chance. They've had their moments. I agree they've been largely poor, but they've also had games where they looked the business. Luna looked a snip for the first few games, then it all went a bit pear shaped.
Again though, TS has done well to get some players playing well. He may do it for 2-3 others, he might not.
We're short of options at left back. Money will be tight, so much depends on the form at the end of this season and into pre-season, though what I will say is that a new first choice Left back is still one of the key signings we need to make. I'm only talking about possibly re-evaluating Luna or Bennett as second or third choice.
As for right back. I think that's the least of our worries. If Hutton, Lowton and Bacuna keep up their form, we've got good enough options for a mid-table side. The fact is we have a mid-table quality squad as it is, it's just our previous manager wasn't getting the best out of the players.
Okay the idea of Moon and Bennett being given another go might seem like overly optimistic tosh, but binning Lowton, Hutton and Bacuna? That's the flip side of the coin and most certainly tosh.
Hutton has shown some improvement but is still an accident waiting to happen most games. We've been woeful at full back for the past 3 or more seasons whoever's played, so sorting it out in the summer seems a priority to me.
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Bacuna has always looked IMO that there's a good player in him, he's just been inconsistent and at least at times suspect defensively. I think he'd make a good right midfielder, but he might lack necessary dribbling skills.
He's a curious mix. For most of the match he looks like he can't kick a moving ball, then goes on a run and produces a good pass or cross for a goal.
For me that typifies many of the players Lambert bought. They flatter to deceive in that they produce odd moments but don't do it consistently.
We simply have to move these players on, no matter of coaching is going to improve them at this stage of their careers.
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Again, most on here were saying the same about Clark and Baker 6 months or so ago. There is no guarantee that Bacuna, Bennett etc will be good enough, but we should have learnt by now not to always state as fact that a young player isn't good enough.
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If 6/7 different fullbacks have all looked largely woeful you have to question the system they're playing in as much as their own ability. Given how poor Lambert was at some parts of the game I think making the assumption that anyone who played badly under him is automatically a bad player is totally unfair.
As I've said before if you genuinely think the squad is crap and is where it should be you have to accept that Lambert was doing an ok job. I outright refuse to accept that to be the case which means the players are capable of more. If that's the case for the guys in the squad no then it may well be the case for a few of the guys who are out on loan as well.
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I've felt that of all the Lambarse write-offs Bacuna, Bennett and Helenius have needed the most consideration - we need to cut them some slack.
I hold with that view under the new manager. We'll see in due course.
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Bacuna or Hutton this weekend. Perhaps that decision is a bit of a marker?
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If 6/7 different fullbacks have all looked largely woeful you have to question the system they're playing in as much as their own ability. Given how poor Lambert was at some parts of the game I think making the assumption that anyone who played badly under him is automatically a bad player is totally unfair.
As I've said before if you genuinely think the squad is crap and is where it should be you have to accept that Lambert was doing an ok job. I outright refuse to accept that to be the case which means the players are capable of more. If that's the case for the guys in the squad no then it may well be the case for a few of the guys who are out on loan as well.
This is my feeling. I mean if Sherwood can get Zogbia of all people playing well again, then who knows what he can do.
In terms of some of our failed full-backs, Lamberts tactics for the vast majority of his tenure involved inviting an enormous amount of pressure on our defence. The full-backs in particular suffered. Lets face it, if 90% of the game you have to be defending, often being attacked 2 on 1, then even some of the best fullbacks in the business would struggle to look good.
We might as well re-appraise a few players this summer. One of Bennett or Luna could be useful. My money would be on Bennett as he's played most games for Brighton this season and appears to have got better as the seasons gone on. Luna hasn't played much on loan. I feel for Tony as his confidence took a huge battering last season. He'd started brightly but after a run of bad games he never recovered. The roasting he took from Ben Arfa in particularly killed his season IMO.
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Bacuna or Hutton this weekend. Perhaps that decision is a bit of a marker?
We're at home, Swansea aren't in great form. I'd stick with Bacuna and remain attacking.
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Crumbs, Bennett was shit. Sherwood would truly be a miracle worker if he can sort him out.
I fully expect the resurrection of not only Bennett, but of Tonev, Luna, Sylla and Helenius!
Surely Helenius would deserve a chance? He definitely had potential. He had a few issues which came out later on. I'm still convinced Bennet could be useful player too. You can keep Tonev and Sylla though.
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If 6/7 different fullbacks have all looked largely woeful you have to question the system they're playing in as much as their own ability. Given how poor Lambert was at some parts of the game I think making the assumption that anyone who played badly under him is automatically a bad player is totally unfair.
As I've said before if you genuinely think the squad is crap and is where it should be you have to accept that Lambert was doing an ok job. I outright refuse to accept that to be the case which means the players are capable of more. If that's the case for the guys in the squad no then it may well be the case for a few of the guys who are out on loan as well.
This is my feeling. I mean if Sherwood can get Zogbia of all people playing well again, then who knows what he can do.
In terms of some of our failed full-backs, Lamberts tactics for the vast majority of his tenure involved inviting an enormous amount of pressure on our defence. The full-backs in particular suffered. Lets face it, if 90% of the game you have to be defending, often being attacked 2 on 1, then even some of the best fullbacks in the business would struggle to look good.
We might as well re-appraise a few players this summer. One of Bennett or Luna could be useful. My money would be on Bennett as he's played most games for Brighton this season and appears to have got better as the seasons gone on. Luna hasn't played much on loan. I feel for Tony as his confidence took a huge battering last season. He'd started brightly but after a run of bad games he never recovered. The roasting he took from Ben Arfa in particularly killed his season IMO.
I pointed out a fair few times that in the first 2 seasons one of the regular ways we got caught out was teams switching play quickly. The reason was the defensive shape we adopted when attacked on the wing was to try to crowd them in, so the fullback closes the player and the Centre half, centre mid and winger/wide forward on that side all try to block his options. This meant the other centre half came across to cover the front post and the other fullback has to step in and cover the back post.
The concept works really well but like a lot of things Lambert tried to implement he got it wrong and despite crowding the ball we never actually put enough pressure on the ball and we let the fullback get in and support too easily so they had 2 on 1 with the fullback on that side and 2 on 1 on the other side as well, meaning we constantly had our fullbacks forced into deciding whether to stick or twist and then being blamed every time they made the wrong choice.
This season Lambert addressed it by getting the midfield flatter and keeping the centre backs closer together in the middle. It did help defensively, too an extent, but the flat line and reduced closing meant we had close to fuck all of the ball and did nothing with it on the odd occasion we did win it back. This got followed up by the 'if you've got the ball you don't concede' pass it between the defenders phase that eventually saw the back of him.
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Bacuna or Hutton this weekend. Perhaps that decision is a bit of a marker?
We're at home, Swansea aren't in great form. I'd stick with Bacuna and remain attacking.
Nice problem to have isn't it? :)
I think sherwood may change formation again though. It will be interesting to see how he sets us up.
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The difference in coaching approaches -
With Luna, Lambert - having Butterfield shout at him every time he's out of position during a match (presumably this happened in training too).
With Bacuna, Sherwood - showing him videos of what he had been doing in matches and videos of what he wanted him to do as a full-back and give him praise in post-match interviews.
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Again, most on here were saying the same about Clark and Baker 6 months or so ago. There is no guarantee that Bacuna, Bennett etc will be good enough, but we should have learnt by now not to always state as fact that a young player isn't good enough.
Agree.
Bennett was improving in the final few games of last season, and was actually impressive in the Chelsea home game.
He's always looked a tidy footballer and, for me, was a great crosser of the ball.
It didn't help him playing in a struggling side.
If, like Lowton, he's now given the chance to play without fear of making mistakes I reckon he'll become a very useful player for us.
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I've always liked Lowton. I think he'd be better in a more forward position.
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It's possible that Hutton will start at right-back and Bacuna right-mid, shifting NZog across and dropping Sinclair.
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Again, most on here were saying the same about Clark and Baker 6 months or so ago. There is no guarantee that Bacuna, Bennett etc will be good enough, but we should have learnt by now not to always state as fact that a young player isn't good enough.
Agree.
Bennett was improving in the final few games of last season, and was actually impressive in the Chelsea home game.
Bennett was a contender for MOM in that match in my opinion. I could see he was up for it from the kick off.
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I've always liked Lowton. I think he'd be better in a more forward position.
It's not an absolutely crazy idea but I guess the problem with that is that he's slow compared to your average wide player; and that lack of general pace as well as recovery speed probably also contributed to him losing his starting spot at RB. Obviously pace isn't everything but it's really important in the modern game and you have to be good in a lot of other areas to make that up. Lowton's delivery is excellent of course and he looks fairly comfortable in possession, but he needs more than that to be a competent wide midfielder.
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I've always liked Lowton. I think he'd be better in a more forward position.
It's not an absolutely crazy idea but I guess the problem with that is that he's slow compared to your average wide player; and that lack of general pace as well as recovery speed probably also contributed to him losing his starting spot at RB. Obviously pace isn't everything but it's really important in the modern game and you have to be good in a lot of other areas to make that up. Lowton's delivery is excellent of course and he looks fairly comfortable in possession, but he needs more than that to be a competent wide midfielder.
I actually think playing on the left has had to make him stay sharper when it comes to concentrating on his positioning. He's not leaving huge expansive gaps like he did on the other side at times (again, good coaching would help that anyway). Obviously playing on the left too, he picks and chooses more when he comes forward and sits back sometimes to let whoever is in front of him (normally Sinclair) express themselves. I think defensively he's actually looked better on the left that he ever did on the right.
I do wonder whether the switch may become more long term. We've all of a suddenly got a lot of options on the right hand side with Bacuna, Hutton and Lowton all playing well.
I don't merely see Lowton as filling in at the moment. I'd be happy to see him stay at LB for the remainder of the season. The big test of course will be the away games against the top 6 sides.
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Yeah, I'm happy to see him get an extended run at LB as well, given that Cissokho and Richardson, while both competent, are guaranteed mediocrity. Certainly it's been encouraging so far, but the right midfielders he's faced have been Gabriel Obertan, James Morrison, and whoever could be arsed to stroll over to the right side for Sunderland on Saturday. An assured performance at Old Trafford or WHL would get me feeling much better about it as a more permanent solution.
What I do like about him playing left though is that he's putting in inswinging crosses. We haven't had that sort of thing since the days of Young and Downing.
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It's possible that Hutton will start at right-back and Bacuna right-mid, shifting NZog across and dropping Sinclair.
I wouldn't do that either. Sinclair was great against Sunderland and played well against WBA. off the ball, the movement from Gabby, Sinclair, Benteke and N'Zogbia was great to see.
I really would be annoyed if we changed the team from last Saturday. Hutton's unfortunate, that's football.
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I've always liked Lowton. The kid has something and was harshly treated by some who made him a scape goat for other people's failings. I think he's decent and wouldn't be rushing him out the door anytime soon.
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You don't change a winning team and Tactics Tim has said he will make any decisions based on the best interests of the club not the individual. Leave Hutton on the bench.
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I actually think Sherwood will change a winning team if he thinks there is a better combination of personnel to beat the next opponents, for example no one would have thought Westwood would be dropped after the cup game, and yet he was in favour of a more attacking line up.
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It will be a bit different for him today from last week because I think Swansea play with two wingers (i stand correct on that though). He had acres of room against Sunderland. Taking nothing away from him though, he was bloody good. It'll be an interesting call for Sherwood.
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Would actually be my MOTM from last week. The cross for the 4th goal was excellent.
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Good crosses and all that, but I doubt if Bacuna will ever have that amount of time and space in a football match again.
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Good crosses and all that, but I doubt if Bacuna will ever have that amount of time and space in a football match again.
This.
As good as we were, there were large parts of that game where Sunderland literally stood ten feet away from all our players and let us do whatever we wanted.
In some ways it was a bit of a freak result, because Sunderland literally couldn't have tried any less.
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Good crosses and all that, but I doubt if Bacuna will ever have that amount of time and space in a football match again.
This.
As good as we were, there were large parts of that game where Sunderland literally stood ten feet away from all our players and let us do whatever we wanted.
In some ways it was a bit of a freak result, because Sunderland literally couldn't have tried any less.
Very true, it doesn't get any easily than it was last weekend. But to fair he has been impressive in more than one game recently. I have always liked him and with a bit of luck this is where his Villa career takes off.
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He reverted to type today.
I dont rate him. His dead balls are consistently poor and a couple of good crosses last week dont fool me.
One free kick late on in a dangerous position was appalling
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He reverted to type today.
I dont rate him. His dead balls are consistently poor and a couple of good crosses last week dont fool me.
One free kick late on in a dangerous position was appalling
He hadn't faced pace in the last two games. Today he did and he struggled.
He also failed to exploit space that their left back was leaving and didn't seem confident enough to take him on. He opted for the hopeful (poor) early cross 9 times out of 10.
I'm not entirely sure, long term, what Bacuna's best position will be. He's looked at his best and his worst at right back. Other than that he's been anonymous as a wideman and out of his depth in CM. We'll see but ultimately we've got to be ruthless. He's probably not good enough. If we're playing sides lacking in pace he may do okay, but that limits him to about 4-5 sides he can play.
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If he's going to play right back, he has to play right back. It's as simple as that.
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If 6/7 different fullbacks have all looked largely woeful you have to question the system they're playing in as much as their own ability. Given how poor Lambert was at some parts of the game I think making the assumption that anyone who played badly under him is automatically a bad player is totally unfair.
As I've said before if you genuinely think the squad is crap and is where it should be you have to accept that Lambert was doing an ok job. I outright refuse to accept that to be the case which means the players are capable of more. If that's the case for the guys in the squad no then it may well be the case for a few of the guys who are out on loan as well.
The full backs have been woeful because they aren't good players - it's as simple as that. Bacuna occasionally produces something which suggests he might have something going for him, but most of the time he struggles to kick a moving ball. I maintain that Hutton isn't up to much either.
The squad isn't crap but it isn't as good as many are claiming either. It's a fair few players short of achieving mid table.
If you want any further proof of that then you only have to look at today's game. The full backs were useless, Sanchez made Cleverly seem like a major loss. Okore made so many mistakes I lost count. Benteke is a shadow of his former self.
Too many players are simply not good enough. Major rebuilding is needed - anything else is delusional.
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If 6/7 different fullbacks have all looked largely woeful you have to question the system they're playing in as much as their own ability. Given how poor Lambert was at some parts of the game I think making the assumption that anyone who played badly under him is automatically a bad player is totally unfair.
As I've said before if you genuinely think the squad is crap and is where it should be you have to accept that Lambert was doing an ok job. I outright refuse to accept that to be the case which means the players are capable of more. If that's the case for the guys in the squad no then it may well be the case for a few of the guys who are out on loan as well.
The full backs have been woeful because they aren't good players - it's as simple as that. Bacuna occasionally produces something which suggests he might have something going for him, but most of the time he struggles to kick a moving ball. I maintain that Hutton isn't up to much either.
The squad isn't crap but it isn't as good as many are claiming either. It's a fair few players short of achieving mid table.
If you want any further proof of that then you only have to look at today's game. The full backs were useless, Sanchez made Cleverly seem like a major loss. Okore made so many mistakes I lost count. Benteke is a shadow of his former self.
Too many players are simply not good enough. Major rebuilding is needed - anything else is delusional.
If you look at the mid-table sides we've played, we've honestly looked short of what they've got. Thinking of Stoke, and more so Swansea.
Swansea in particular look 2-3 players from possibly pushing for Top 6. In particular they need a suitable replacement for Bony. Gomis is a brute but if it's gonna take him 5-6 chances to score, they need more.
We are gonna need 4-5 good players in and players who have the quality to make a difference now, not in 2-3 years (if we're lucky).
Bacuna can look okay in certain circumstances or woefully out of his depth in others. At this stage I think that probably makes him a write off. Okore will get better, but I do think one more good senior CH is essential. I'm not sure Okore should be a first choice at the moment.
Delph's the only player who looks top half quality in the middle. Cleverley of late has too, and I wouldn't be adverse to getting him on a free. As for Westwood and Sanchez? I don't think they cut it for one reason or another. So we need a couple more good players in CM.
A new left back and another attacking option to replace Weimann are also essential.
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I'd love someone like Neil Taylor who regularly gets linked with 3m moves to the likes of Palace and West Brom. Good player though for Swansea, defensively solid and gets forward alright, a 7/10 man most weeks. I suppose Cissokho was looking like that in the first part of the season but has regressed since then.
Swansea just have a better midfield than us. They all know and are effective at their jobs, Ki holding effectively infront of the back 4 like Petrov used to do for us, Shelvey chipping in with goals from midfield and Sigurdsson playing the number 10 role.
I
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I'd love someone like Neil Taylor who regularly gets linked with 3m moves to the likes of Palace and West Brom. Good player though for Swansea, defensively solid and gets forward alright, a 7/10 man most weeks. I suppose Cissokho was looking like that in the first part of the season but has regressed since then.
Swansea just have a better midfield than us. They all know and are effective at their jobs, Ki holding effectively infront of the back 4 like Petrov used to do for us, Shelvey chipping in with goals from midfield and Sigurdsson playing the number 10 role.
I
You don't mention Cork, who along with Ki bossed the match and Villa let them do it. They played good football but we let them and that is the most annoying thing.
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Cork's a decent enough player who fits into their system well but I wouldn't say signing him on his own and expecting him to instantly transform our midfield would happen as it hasn't with Cleverley.
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A bump for Bacuna. I thought he was superb yesterday, and somebody will have to remind me of a better pass than the one for Cleverley's goal yesterday. The vision and the precision was top drawer.
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A bump for Bacuna. I thought he was superb yesterday, and somebody will have to remind me of a better pass than the one for Cleverley's goal yesterday. The vision and the precision was top drawer.
It was a great ball as was the run from Cleverley that prompted it.
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I still don't think he can defend but when you keep the ball most of the game and put the opposition under a lot of pressure then you don't really need to!
I like the lad
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I like him as well. For the money we paid, he's been a decent buy.
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I like him, but he's one of those players who's very frustrating to watch because he tends to mix moments of utter brilliance with some really poor decision-making.
Still, we could be doing a lot worse at our fullback positions than him.
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And another player who bizarrely got frozen out after a decent first season
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He seems to me a player who wants to please. When he does something good like his pass to Cleverley it boosts his confidence. When he makes errors he tends to string several together. Much better playing for Sherwood on the front foot than Lambert's last ditch mentality.
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I think we just have to live with the frustrations he brings to us in every game as he produces some great work going forward. His pass for the third yesterday was lovely.
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Be interesting to see if Bacuna continues to get the right back nod for the next game with arguably our most consistant player this year back to fitness, do we sacrifice creativity going forward for some much needed defensive steel?
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I still don't think he can defend but when you keep the ball most of the game and put the opposition under a lot of pressure then you don't really need to!
I like the lad
I agree he can't defend. But I am happier when he is in the side from an attacking point of view.
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A bump for Bacuna. I thought he was superb yesterday, and somebody will have to remind me of a better pass than the one for Cleverley's goal yesterday. The vision and the precision was top drawer.
My favourite goal of this season.
Crucial we scored another as I wouldn't have fancied us hanging on 2-1 for the last 20 minutes.
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I think Sherwood will play him and others based on the situation. There will be times Hutton, a very good defender, but not as good in attack is the better option based on the opponent and venue. Right now we need wins and goals and Bacuna has played well enough in Hutton's absence. Won't surprise me to see him play next week and then Hutton at Southampton.
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Be interesting to see if Bacuna continues to get the right back nod for the next game with arguably our most consistant player this year back to fitness, do we sacrifice creativity going forward for some much needed defensive steel?
He could always be moved to the current N'Zog position and have Hutton in behind.
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Yeah, why can't we move him to right midfield with Hutton behind him?
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Yeah, why can't we move him to right midfield with Hutton behind him?
Bacuna's never quite done it from a more advanced position. He does seem to relish bombing forward from right back and getting a run on. I dunno, with more confidence at the moment he might be better in an advanced role now.
In terms of Bacuna vs Hutton. I don't think there's a game left that we particularly need a more cautious approach with. Going for it seems to be the best way of getting the results, so I'd stick with Leandro for now. I would possibly consider Hutton for the final though, but if Leandro keeps his performance levels up, it would be harsh to drop him.
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I think Bacuna is a player in transition, ostensibly a mid-fielder but learning the full-back trade. If given time, I'm sure he will turn into a very good player. That's probably a stating the bleeding obvious observation but I can't help noticing the similarity to Kenny Swain and, look how that turned out.
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I hope when he becomes more consistent with age and experience that it isn't because he eliminates the brilliance from his game to become a good but mediocre player. He is our best provider at the moment, so it would be great to see him keep his end product but eliminate the lazy touches and errant passes that happen a little to regularly between the killer balls.
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Yeah, why can't we move him to right midfield with Hutton behind him?
Bacuna's never quite done it from a more advanced position. He does seem to relish bombing forward from right back and getting a run on. I dunno, with more confidence at the moment he might be better in an advanced role now.
In terms of Bacuna vs Hutton. I don't think there's a game left that we particularly need a more cautious approach with. Going for it seems to be the best way of getting the results, so I'd stick with Leandro for now. I would possibly consider Hutton for the final though, but if Leandro keeps his performance levels up, it would be harsh to drop him.
completely agree
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Increasingly assured. His range of passing alone warrants a place in the first 11, the ball for Cleverley couldn't have been played better, and Tekkers loves him. The problem for me is that he is caught between two roles, he's a decent right back that can get forward but is suspect from time to time in coverage, he's a competent midfielder but doesn't seem to offer any more than he would from RB. Hutton is certainly a better defender, but what Bacuna offers us in terms of creativity is far more important. Keep playing him, please.
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I think he's wonderful.
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The pass to Cleverley for the goal was almost sexual.
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That, as well
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It's likely that Hutton will not make the starting 11 between now and the end of the season unless Bacuna gets injured/suspended.
Lowton has surely played his last game for the club unless Sherwood gets the elbow before he can be offloaded. We may well buy the rounded right back that we need in the summer. In which case Hutton could find himself back in the chilly zone.
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With delph, grealish and benteke favouring the left hand side or play is focused down that flank
Bacuna' energy and crossing ability means he's very well suited to providing a balance to that down the right in the current formation which is why I'd keep him in there
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You can coach a creative player how to defend but you can't teach a defensive player to be creative.
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You can coach a creative player how to defend but you can't teach a defensive player to be creative.
There was a quote from Sherwood that he was giving bacuna extra lessons/showing videos in order to teach him to be a right back. This was a few months back but hopefully shows that; 1. Bacuna's defending will improve 2. we have a thorough manager prepared to properly coach players.
He and Hutton could be a pretty perfect pair over the next few years, Hutton is your meat and potatoes defender whereas, with time bacuna could develop into a very adapt modern full back (with a mean free kick too). I certainly would not be looking to buy a new one in the summer.
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He's like a UDLC who can actually play football.
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He's like a UDLC who can actually play football.
I'll see your UDLC and raise you one Habib Beye
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Others will have said it but that pass for Cleverley's goal was just brilliant and set him up to have the shot to score from - in almost the same way that Delph's cross invited The Beast to ram that header past Howard for the first goal.
Things of beauty!
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In almost the same way as Grealish's corner for the second was as accurate as I've seen and could have been put in first time by Vlaar before Benteke got on the end of it.
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I hope Leandro starts tomorrow, I think his crosses are really going to cause issues for West Ham, they'll be focusing on picking up the more obvious creative players and I think with accurate crosses Benteke will thrive against their defence.
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Still waiting for Lady Gaga's Alejandro: "Oh-Le-an-dro, Oh-Le-an-dro, Oh-Le-Oh-Le-andro, Oh-Le-an-dro, Bacuuuuna" to catch on.
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Still waiting for Lady Gaga's Alejandro: "Oh-Le-an-dro, Oh-Le-an-dro, Oh-Le-Oh-Le-andro, Oh-Le-an-dro, Bacuuuuna" to catch on.
Can you whistle that for us? Doesn't ring any bells...
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I don't know that one either. Plus, I love a fucking bhuna.
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Still waiting for Lady Gaga's Alejandro: "Oh-Le-an-dro, Oh-Le-an-dro, Oh-Le-Oh-Le-andro, Oh-Le-an-dro, Bacuuuuna" to catch on.
Can you whistle that for us? Doesn't ring any bells...
I know it, well, my lad's Gaga's biggest fan ;D
It would work, but it would have to be just 'Leandro'
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Aston Villa is delighted to announce Leandro Bacuna has signed a new five-year contract.
Bacuna, who turns 24 tomorrow, put pen to paper on the long-term deal this afternoon.
The Dutchman - who can play in defence or midfield - joined Villa in June 2013 on the same day that Jores Okore arrived.
Leo, who joined from Groningen, impressed many with his debut season and made a name for himself as a free-kick expert.
He said: "I am absolutely thrilled to sign a new contract and continue my time at Aston Villa.
"I love it here and am really excited about my future in claret and blue under the manager.
"I feel I can really develop here and show my worth to the team and I think there are bright times ahead for us all."
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Pretty surprised at this.
Am I the only person who really doesn't rate him.
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No. I think he's just okay but more like a player is who would be the best of a poor Lambert team but nothing special.
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I rate him....just not as a defender. Better crosses from United would have seen him beaten several times for goals. He was consistently letting his man sneak in off his back shoulder.
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Pretty surprised at this.
Am I the only person who really doesn't rate him.
No.
As a right back he is dire, as a midfield player he is not up to the required standard.
Christ knows what TS sees in him
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I like him. Useful enough to have in the squad.
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I don't really mind him and I'd rather have him in the squad than Richardson.
That's says it all for me.
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I like him. Useful enough to have in the squad.
But good enough to be first choice right back for the next 5 years?
Not for me.
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Happy with this, I like him and always have done, I did think he'd end up in midfield rather than fullback but he never looked like a winger to me, I still think he'd be a centre mid in most leagues but it's a bit quick for him in there in the PL.
If we can concentrate on his defensive positioning he's young enough to still improve massively as a defender, I'd much rather see us work with him than bring Hutton back in.
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I like him. Useful enough to have in the squad.
But good enough to be first choice right back for the next 5 years?
Not for me.
Who says that is what he's meant to be? It is about the squad rather than just a fixed 11 who go straight into the team.
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He is very good going forward. I presume TS sees enough quality in him to presume he can get the defending side up to scratch.
I see him and Amavi as an extremely exciting full back pairing from an attacking perspective if they can get the defence well enough organised.
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I don't really mind him and I'd rather have him in the squad than Richardson.
That's says it all for me.
I'd agree with that.
I'd rather he got used in midfield than at full back, mind.
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I like him. Useful enough to have in the squad.
But good enough to be first choice right back for the next 5 years?
Not for me.
His previous contract ended at the end of the season, should we have left it for him to leave for free? Plus there is no guarantee that just because he's signed a 5 year deal that he'll A) still be here in 5 years or B) Be first choice every game for those 5 years.
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Pretty surprised at this.
Am I the only person who really doesn't rate him.
No.
As a right back he is dire, as a midfield player he is not up to the required standard.
Christ knows what TS sees in him
Forgotten how young he is: will be his 24th birthday tomorrow.
Plenty of fans did not rate Kenny Swain at first when Ron Saunders converted him from winger to right back. Bacuna has time still to develop, if he has the talent.
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I like him. Useful enough to have in the squad.
But good enough to be first choice right back for the next 5 years?
Not for me.
Who says that is what he's meant to be? It is about the squad rather than just a fixed 11 who go straight into the team.
I'm not saying he's going to play every game from the start. I see him and Hutton battling it out but I personally don't think either are all that and judging that Bacuna seems to be the preferred option then who knows, he might be.
I just don't think he's a right back. Poor marking, poor positioning, looks a bit panicky on the ball and turns in on himself and is closed down easily.
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Pretty surprised at this.
Am I the only person who really doesn't rate him.
No.
As a right back he is dire, as a midfield player he is not up to the required standard.
Christ knows what TS sees in him
Forgotten how young he is: will be his 24th birthday tomorrow.
Plenty of fans did not rate Kenny Swain at first when Ron Saunders converted him from winger to right back. Bacuna has time still to develop, if he has the talent.
Believe me, he's no Kenny Swain
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As Paulie said, nobody said it was to be our first choice right back. He's been a fairly useful utility player for his first couple of years at the club and I'd imagine that's how he'll remain.
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He's young, versatile, by PL standards was pretty cheap to buy and I would imagine he's not exactly breaking the bank wages wise, i'm happy to keep him for now.
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And of course, if he has a good season and fecked off in the summer for nowt the club would have been slaughtered for that.
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Interesting. He hasn't really mucked up at right-back this season so far, though, so maybe Tactim prefers him to Hutton. It would be a more attacking choice.
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No. I think he's just okay but more like a player is who would be the best of a poor Lambert team but nothing special.
A squad member who can occasionally look the part in midfield but doesn't cut the ice at right back. A five year contract seems a little extortionate but I assume its low wages. He is a lucky boy.
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Like been stated above,I'd expect he's quite cheap in premiership terms & can play in a few positions.
I'm quite happy he's in & around the squad never a world beater but can never knock his effort or commitment to the club
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Interesting. He hasn't really mucked up at right-back this season so far, though, so maybe Tactim prefers him to Hutton. It would be a more attacking choice.
I thought he did really well in the first game. Was comfortable until Gradel came on, got turned a couple of times by him and then marked him out of it for the rest of the game. I thought it was pretty similar against Man U, he had a couple of ropey moments but generally his positioning and marking was a lot better than it has been, given he was marking Memphis or Young for most of it I'm happy with that.
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Don't really know why people are complaining at all, so long as the wages aren't anything out of this world. The fact that we could do better than him starting most games at RB doesn't change the fact that there's little downside to this: because he's a very useful utility player who's young enough that, barring a catastrophic loss of form, he can probably be shifted easily for a couple of million if we want to at some later stage.
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I find Bacuna to be a very useful player to have on the bench or as part of the squad. Solid pro, very coachable. He'll not let us down, but if we want to improve he's got one of the positions that we should be upgrading.
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Pleased with this. I couldn't understand why Lambert left him out of the side in his last season.
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Seems like a no brainer to me. He's young, probably not on enourmous wages, knows the club and the league, can play a number of positions, always gives 100% and generally performs pretty well on the pitch.
I'd much rather we signed him up than spend more money on somone else who may or may not be as good. I expect we'll be getting an upgrade at RB in a window or two anyway.
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Baker, Westwood, Bacuna - times they are a changing.
However, I am absolutely dreading tomorrow's news......
Aston Villa is delighted to announce that club Captain, Gabriel Agbonlahor has agreed a new five year contract that ties him to the club until 2020. Fans favourite Gabby started life as an Academy graduate and got his first team break against Everton in 2005. A scorer of vital goals over the years has seen Gabby elevated to hero status amongst the claret and blue faithful.
Speaking after signing the deal Gabby said 'It was a no brainer really, no one else would go near me, and the club have this ludicrous notion that the fans all love me, so I thought why not. This is a club going places after all.'
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Baker, Westwood, Bacuna - times they are a changing.
However, I am absolutely dreading tomorrow's news......
Aston Villa is delighted to announce that club Captain, Gabriel Agbonlahor has agreed a new five year contract that ties him to the club until 2020. Fans favourite Gabby started life as an Academy graduate and got his first team break against Everton in 2005. A scorer of vital goals over the years has seen Gabby elevated to hero status amongst the claret and blue faithful.
Speaking after signing the deal Gabby said 'It was a no brainer really, no one else would go near me, and the club have this ludicrous notion that the fans all love me, so I thought why not. This is a club going places after all.'
He only signed a new contract last September.
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I know so it's about time he signed another.
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I would have Hutton over him at right-back and I would have any number of people over him in right-midfield. Squad player at best.
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I really like Bacuna. I think he's dynamic and growing into a good player.
Good job club and Leo!
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Ending last season with 5 assists from a limited amount of games at right back was a pretty good effort. There's plenty of room for improvement defensively though. He still offers way more to the team than Hutton ever will imo.
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According to Dutch football fans on Twitter, he is almost James Milner like. In that he is quite versatile but is best in a central role. Due to his versatility, he has been played out of position quite a bit which has slowed his progress.
The above was said about him on the very first page of this thread when we were signing him. I think they made a fairly accurate assessment of him.
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Glad he's renewed. I like Leo.
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I can't decide if I'm that bothered about a new deal for Bacuna. Half of me thinks he's being played in the wrong position and the other half thinks that doesn't really make that much difference.
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"Um"
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I'm glad Sherwood seems to rate him, hopefully much higher than Hutton. He is a bit dodgy defensively but adds a lot going forward.
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Probably got a new contract on the strength oh his appearance on The Rose of Tralee. Think Father Teds 'Lovely Ladies Competition'
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/watch-aston-villas-leandro-bacuna-makes-truly-bizarre-rose-of-tralee-appearance/36468
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It's brilliant what a game of opinions football is - my view on Bacuna is that no Premiership player should be incapable of getting their head up when on the ball - he might be vaguely adequate as a wing back but he is bang average as either a full back or a winger.
Sits in the group with Gabby for me....whilst they are first team regulars this team does not improve enough to compete away from bottom 6/7
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Well he was decent enough against that chap from Man Utd who reading the press yesterday must be the love child of George Best and Bobby Charlton with Stanley Matthews as his uncle.
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I really like Bacuna. For what we paid for him, he's been well worth the money and overall he's not really let us down when he's played so i'm pleased he's got his new contract.
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I have appreciated Bacuna's passes from the wing which always seem to set somebody up for a run on goal. He's great at the overlapping back/ wing thing and not too shabby at the full back thing.
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I just don't see it, I'm not a fan, and with the new players, he looks even more out of place.
Maybe he will benefit with a better team around him, fingers crossed.
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I just don't see it, I'm not a fan, and with the new players, he looks even more out of place.
Maybe he will benefit with a better team around him, fingers crossed.
How has he looked out of place in the first 2 games, I honestly can't see how you'd come to that conclusion.
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I think Tim is pretty brutal with players - if he thinks LB is good enough for this deal then that's good enough for me.
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Well he was decent enough against that chap from Man Utd who reading the press yesterday must be the love child of George Best and Bobby Charlton with Stanley Matthews as his uncle.
Wasn't Depay the one who easily got in behind Bacuna for that chance to make it 2-0? ;)
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Good news.
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Well he was decent enough against that chap from Man Utd who reading the press yesterday must be the love child of George Best and Bobby Charlton with Stanley Matthews as his uncle.
Wasn't Depay the one who easily got in behind Bacuna for that chance to make it 2-0? ;)
You mean the one that got played that fantastic cutting ball that my dead granny could have put in?
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Well he was decent enough against that chap from Man Utd who reading the press yesterday must be the love child of George Best and Bobby Charlton with Stanley Matthews as his uncle.
Wasn't Depay the one who easily got in behind Bacuna for that chance to make it 2-0? ;)
Surely that was caused by Ayew losing the ball just inside our half catching everyone on the back foot. We'd pushed forward from the back at that point and the ball through was good that should have been converted.
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I like Leo, he's not as bad as some make out at RB and going forward.
Even if he isn't first choice in the future we still need those types as squad players so no problem with this.
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Well he was decent enough against that chap from Man Utd who reading the press yesterday must be the love child of George Best and Bobby Charlton with Stanley Matthews as his uncle.
Wasn't Depay the one who easily got in behind Bacuna for that chance to make it 2-0? ;)
Surely that was caused by Ayew losing the ball just inside our half catching everyone on the back foot. We'd pushed forward from the back at that point and the ball through was good that should have been converted.
Yeah, it probably was. Bacuna pushes up a bit too much for my liking though.
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Didn't someone post before about him going berserk in the club shop buying Villa stuff? Nice young lad, lovely smile, give him a ball and a yard of grass he'll make the move for the perfect pass.
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I'm surprised he's got a new contract as I only see him as a squad player and not a regular first teamer. I was hoping that we could get in a decent right back rather than pay Bacuna. Good luck to him though, Tim obviously sees him in training daily and knows what he's capable of.
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Easily got behind Bacuna? FFS once in 90 minutes when that chap is regarded the reincarnation of Johan Cruyff and it was an excellent through ball!
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I'm surprised he's got a new contract as I only see him as a squad player and not a regular first teamer. I was hoping that we could get in a decent right back rather than pay Bacuna. Good luck to him though, Tim obviously sees him in training daily and knows what he's capable of.
Should we have let him go for nothing next summer when he would have been out of contract?
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Well he was decent enough against that chap from Man Utd who reading the press yesterday must be the love child of George Best and Bobby Charlton with Stanley Matthews as his uncle.
Wasn't Depay the one who easily got in behind Bacuna for that chance to make it 2-0? ;)
Surely that was caused by Ayew losing the ball just inside our half catching everyone on the back foot. We'd pushed forward from the back at that point and the ball through was good that should have been converted.
Yeah, it probably was. Bacuna pushes up a bit too much for my liking though.
you might be right. He's still part midfielder so his natural inclination is to push up. It's a weakness in employing attacking full backs to some extent, but certainly where the defender is actually a converted wide midfielder. Almost asking for that to happen.
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Anyway good decision on new contract. Now is your time Leandro to make your mark. You have had two full seasons in the premier league so express yourself.
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Hes a decent player, and has been one of our better players over the past couple of years (although that doesnt really say a lot!). Deserves a new contract, and has a part to play in the coming years for sure.
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I'm surprised he's got a new contract as I only see him as a squad player and not a regular first teamer. I was hoping that we could get in a decent right back rather than pay Bacuna. Good luck to him though, Tim obviously sees him in training daily and knows what he's capable of.
Should we have let him go for nothing next summer when he would have been out of contract?
If we had a better player to replace him I wouldn't be to bothered, the strength of the team is more important than how much Randy gets back on the player to me.
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I think Bacuna Matata has made more positive contributions to the team than negative and I think he has improved since joing so I am happy about this!
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I'm surprised he's got a new contract as I only see him as a squad player and not a regular first teamer. I was hoping that we could get in a decent right back rather than pay Bacuna. Good luck to him though, Tim obviously sees him in training daily and knows what he's capable of.
Should we have let him go for nothing next summer when he would have been out of contract?
Did we originally only sign him up for 3 years?
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I'm surprised he's got a new contract as I only see him as a squad player and not a regular first teamer. I was hoping that we could get in a decent right back rather than pay Bacuna. Good luck to him though, Tim obviously sees him in training daily and knows what he's capable of.
Should we have let him go for nothing next summer when he would have been out of contract?
Did we originally only sign him up for 3 years?
Correct.
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Whether good enough or not he, Westwood, Baker, Clark are now signed up and if we choose to let them go in the next couple of years means we'll get something for them. All good work by our new contracts man if you ask me, protecting the club.
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I think his best is very good, and he has shown that he can dribble, pass, cross, beat defenders and read the ball in the box. He's 6' and strong, and he's only been a defender for 2 years and apparently only taught to defend 6 months ago so at 24 I don't think it is silly to give him a 5 year contract.
The only thing he lacks in my eyes is consistency, but as far as right backs go I haven't seen many that can actually produce dangerous balls as often as he does for looking a bit ropey most of the time. He feels to me like the type of player that when the gap between his best and his worst narrows with consistency it isn't going to be shaving much off his ceiling.
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I'm surprised he's got a new contract as I only see him as a squad player and not a regular first teamer. I was hoping that we could get in a decent right back rather than pay Bacuna. Good luck to him though, Tim obviously sees him in training daily and knows what he's capable of.
Should we have let him go for nothing next summer when he would have been out of contract?
If we had a better player to replace him I wouldn't be to bothered, the strength of the team is more important than how much Randy gets back on the player to me.
You do need squad players though and he does a decent job.
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Well he was decent enough against that chap from Man Utd who reading the press yesterday must be the love child of George Best and Bobby Charlton with Stanley Matthews as his uncle.
Wasn't Depay the one who easily got in behind Bacuna for that chance to make it 2-0? ;)
Surely that was caused by Ayew losing the ball just inside our half catching everyone on the back foot. We'd pushed forward from the back at that point and the ball through was good that should have been converted.
Yeah, it probably was. Bacuna pushes up a bit too much for my liking though.
He does like to get forward and get a cross in. Benteke got on the end of a few of them when he was here.
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5 year contracts all round then!
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5 year contracts all round then!
I suspect that the club are anticipating that player's wages will increase once the new TV deal money starts sloshing around. In which case I think the club are being rather clever here.
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Just don't give another one to the alien from Zog.
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Not good enough, I don't see anything that suggests he should be ahead of Hurton.
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absolutely awful today, gutless in the extreme too reminded me of Stephen Warnock at his worst today which is saying something.
Not that I rate Hutton that much but what is the point of having him on the bench if he isnt deemed worthy of replacing Bacuna on today's performance.
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Garbage today and I'm a fan.
IMO aswell he also lost concentration from that ridiculous age he took to take the throw in he got booked for as he then conceded a stupid corner straight afterwards which eventually lead to the 2nd goal.
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Hope this isn't the curse of the new contract.
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Five year deal....should have been three at best.
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Garbage today and I'm a fan.
IMO aswell he also lost concentration from that ridiculous age he took to take the throw in he got booked for as he then conceded a stupid corner straight afterwards which eventually lead to the 2nd goal.
Garbage today, and pretty much most games, and I'm not a fan. In fact, that's putting it mildly
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Me either. A 5 year contract for a player of his mediocrity is madness.
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Hope this isn't the curse of the new contract.
No it's not because he was shit to begin with.
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Hope this isn't the curse of the new contract.
No it's not because he was shit to begin with.
Oh pipe down. Lots of assists and a few goals last few seasons and only 23.
I agree he's not a right back but he's being asked to play there and a useful squad player
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Hope this isn't the curse of the new contract.
No it's not because he was shit to begin with.
Oh pipe down. Lots of assists and a few goals last few seasons and only 23.
I agree he's not a right back but he's being asked to play there and a useful squad player
Classic utility player, i.e. not very good in a variety of positions. We need a proper right back.
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manu qualified for CL last with two of those "utility" players in Young and Valencia. Our problem is not Leandro.
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manu qualified for CL last with two of those "utility" players in Young and Valencia. Our problem is not Leandro.
He's very much part of the problem, and comparing him to the Man United players you mentioned is utterly baffling. He isn't good enough as either a right back or a right midfielder, both of those players would walk into just about any team in the country.
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manu qualified for CL last with two of those "utility" players in Young and Valencia. Our problem is not Leandro.
No, but it's part of it. We have a better right-back on the bench.
I've noticed in the last two games that when the ball is played out from the back, he does not know what to do. He either hoofs it long, runs it out of play or gives it away. No left foot, no skills to get out of a tight situation - just not good enough.
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Hope this isn't the curse of the new contract.
No it's not because he was shit to begin with.
Oh pipe down. Lots of assists and a few goals last few seasons and only 23.
I agree he's not a right back but he's being asked to play there and a useful squad player
Pardew didn't respond effectively to our early superiority until half time, but one thing he did fairly early on was get Saha to switch over to the right side. It reminded me of when teams would transfer both wingers to one side to attack Lowton or Bennett and you could put your in-play bet on there and then.
This is a sure sign of things to come, and I hope TS addresses the issue. If the opposition have a wide threat, then Bacuna needs substantial cover from the midfield or our right sided front player.
Back in the days of MoN, who seemed to think for a while you could play central defenders at full back, we had a heated debate about whether specialist full backs were even necessary any more, and it was even mooted that there were no longer any wingers in the PL.
There may not be wingers in the old style, but there are tricky speed merchants who like to play wide, and managers who can spot a weakness. Hutton can nullify such a threat, but is not very effective going forward. It's tough for Tim, unless he buys the complete solution.
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There may not be wingers in the old style, but there are tricky speed merchants who like to play wide, and managers who can spot a weakness. Hutton can nullify such a threat, but is not very effective going forward. It's tough for Tim, unless he buys the complete solution.
The best compromise to that would be Hutton / Traore combo.
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Hope this isn't the curse of the new contract.
No it's not because he was shit to begin with.
Oh pipe down. Lots of assists and a few goals last few seasons and only 23.
I agree he's not a right back but he's being asked to play there and a useful squad player
another case of he is only (insert age here) good squad player, does his best etc etc, this time next year we will be millionaires.
players of bacunas standard is the reason why we are in the shit
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He's being asked to play out of position. Not because he's particularly good in that role but because the alternative is a clod hopper. We need a specialist right back. Hutton can cover him and Bacuna can be freed up to do what he does best in midfield.
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this is where ts worries me.
play a midfielder at right back when there is a right back on the bench
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I am more than satisfied with 8 positions, goalie with Guzans distribution worries me, Gabbyshould not be near the team with the talent we have and Bacuna. I like him, he is a trier, but he is not a fecking right back. He worries me all the time.
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With options like Adama, SirClive, Grealish and Gil going forward, there's no real need to compromise at right back. Just play the best defender and let the others (and Amavi) do the attacking.
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I didn't think he was that bad today, and the people around me did not seem to be moaning about him either. What mistakes did I miss?
With Adama seemingly reluctant to track back too much it might be that Hutton is a better bet anyway. Adama seemed to want to hug the touch line - at least that was his starting position - so an attacking RB may not be so vital.
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With options like Adama, SirClive, Grealish and Gil going forward, there's no real need to compromise at right back. Just play the best defender and let the others (and Amavi) do the attacking.
This...........
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With options like Adama, SirClive, Grealish and Gil going forward, there's no real need to compromise at right back. Just play the best defender and let the others (and Amavi) do the attacking.
This...........
this
call me old fashioned but i like a full back who can tackle and defend and not go over the halfway line
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With options like Adama, SirClive, Grealish and Gil going forward, there's no real need to compromise at right back. Just play the best defender and let the others (and Amavi) do the attacking.
This...........
this
call me old fashioned but i like a full back who can tackle and defend and not go over the halfway line
Cissokho spent half a season doing just that and it was decided that he was shit because his crossing and forward passing was rubbish.
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With options like Adama, SirClive, Grealish and Gil going forward, there's no real need to compromise at right back. Just play the best defender and let the others (and Amavi) do the attacking.
This...........
this
call me old fashioned but i like a full back who can tackle and defend and not go over the halfway line
Cissokho spent half a season doing just that and it was decided that he was shit because his crossing and forward passing was rubbish.
Not sure that Cissokho was any good at tackling or defending either to be honest.
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As a full back at a very decent sunday morning standard (bollox), Bacuna worries me every match. Teams will know to target him and he sure has a lot to learn
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Leandro Bacuna...not just a poor right back
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Still never seen him play well in midfield, though his rotation in midfield was good - I think that's mostly good coaching
Get Adama in for him asap.
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very poor today but he has been for the majority of his villa career. we will never improve whilst players of his standard start regularly
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Desperately poor today. Personally, to me, he doesn't look good enough for the top flight. Whether he's better than Hutton at RB is up for discussion, but his lack of brains or basic skills was laughable at times today.
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Pretty certain he won't play in the next game
We're going to struggle to find a place for grealish and Adama and Gil, unless about half of you are right and I'm wrong, and Sinclair can play no 9
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Desperately poor today. Personally, to me, he doesn't look good enough for the top flight. Whether he's better than Hutton at RB is up for discussion, but his lack of brains or basic skills was laughable at times today.
I don't think that's up for discussion. I'd have Hutton at RB over Leandro every time to be honest. It's his specialist position and with Amavi going hell for leather on the left, we need a bit more balance on that right. Hutton will do a solid job most weeks. If you put Traore in front of him with license to attack at will, we'll have some joy.
Bacuna isn't good enough. There's no one position where he excels consistently. He looks hideously awkward with a football at times. Like it's a live hand grenade. Once in a blue moon he'll come up with something good. He was Cafu-esque in a couple of game last season (albeit against dreadful sides) before falling back to his usual ways. He doesn't really score much any more. Those 5 goals in his first season papered over many cracks. They were good goals too leaving one wondering why he doesn't look that composed more often.
We can get by this season, but we'll be desperate for a new right back next summer. For now the priority is CF.
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Bacuna or Gil??? If Carles had started today we would've won for certain. Bacuna was poor today.
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His dead balls were poor today. He seems to have lost that aspect of his game. Will it ever come back..?
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Maybe Crespo will be 1st choice rb when fit.
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I find it increasingly difficult to believe we gave Bacuna a new five year contract last week. He's a squad player at the very best.
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At least TS did the right thing and gave him the hook with enough time left to change the outcome.
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Bacuna should not be our first choice right back. I quite like him as a squad player, but he makes some appalling defensive mistakes.
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He needs a brain transplant. He's got some decent footballing attributes but the stupidity with Vardy leading up to their first goal was unnecessary, and the cross-field pass he played to Sanchez was horrifying and should've got him the hook right then and there.
I still don't have a problem with keeping him around but someone needs to have a word with him.
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He has to be dropped, just has to be. Either play Hutton or move Micah over and put Clark alongside Lescott.
Bacuna is not good enough, plain and simple.
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He needs a brain transplant. He's got some decent footballing attributes but the stupidity with Vardy leading up to their first goal was unnecessary, and the cross-field pass he played to Sanchez was horrifying and should've got him the hook right then and there.
I still don't have a problem with keeping him around but someone needs to have a word with him.
He's put is in trouble with that square ball whilst high up the pitch a few times in the past. He did it against the Baggies a couple fo seasons ago, leading to Shane Long scoring, and then played Westwood into trouble at St.Mary's last season, leading to another Shane Long goal.
There were a number of occasions yesterday when he found himself in cul-de-sacs but instead of playing the ball into one of the channels for Gabby/Sinclair to chase he lost possession and immediately put us under pressure. He just doesn't seem to be learning and needs to be dropped. When Traore is fit we really just need a solid defensive full-back behind him, so hopefully Crespo will tick that box.
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Watching him yesterday when he received the ball in the RB position he turned and passed it back and inside every time...suggests to me that he is clearly uncomfortable in possession when in that situation, which he is obviously going to be in a lot of the time. At least Hutton will occasionally put on a bit of a burst forward, cut inside and use his left foot.
He is often caught on his heels inside the box (and unaware) when attackers are on their toes and inevitably beat him to the ball - eg Vardy goal.
He's simply not a confident defender.
Ilori is surely a considerable upgrade?
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I still think Okore is the better option at RB. He's got pace and power and won't just hoof the ball. Surely a way better defender than Bacuna??
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Ilori, Crespo, Okore, Hutton at least we have options, this time last season we had bugger all past the first choice option in most positions. I think Bacuna will be a prime target for the opposition much in the same way our left backs were last season and it's only going to make him look worse. Not good enough to play in midfield either so I'm not sure what to do with him, strangely I'm not too fussed about his new contract. I doubt it was for a massive pay rise and it guarentees us a fee for him when we do move him on.
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I still think Okore is the better option at RB. He's got pace and power and won't just hoof the ball. Surely a way better defender than Bacuna??
Okore always looks too clumsy in possession to make a decent full-back to me.
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I like Bacuna but he's been very poor the last few games. I'm not entirely sure it's his fault though because as flexible he is, a right back he isn't.
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Pretty sure he'll be dropped for the Baggies and Blues games...only danger with that is that Hutton is likely to get himself sent off. I may be wrong but I think the only reason TS pulled him off yesterday was because he took a knock towards the end of the game rather than his incompetence of doing anything football related.
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I like Bacuna but he's been very poor the last few games. I'm not entirely sure it's his fault though because as flexible he is, a right back he isn't.
His best games have probably come at right back though. I've rarely seen him look good in midfield. I think he's one of those players doomed to be a bit shit no matter where he plays. Not comfortable enough with the ball to be a good winger. Too poor defensively to be a fullback. Not enough awareness or technical ability to play in the middle.
Not good enough.
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I like Bacuna but he's been very poor the last few games. I'm not entirely sure it's his fault though because as flexible he is, a right back he isn't.
You are entirely right. It is not his fault his technique is flawed and that he is too poor for this level - he is doing the best he can. It is the fault of the previous manager for buying him and the current manager for playing him.
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I still think Okore is the better option at RB. He's got pace and power and won't just hoof the ball. Surely a way better defender than Bacuna??
Richards is the best right back at the club
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I like Bacuna but he's been very poor the last few games. I'm not entirely sure it's his fault though because as flexible he is, a right back he isn't.
His best games have probably come at right back though. I've rarely seen him look good in midfield. I think he's one of those players doomed to be a bit shit no matter where he plays. Not comfortable enough with the ball to be a good winger. Too poor defensively to be a fullback. Not enough awareness or technical ability to play in the middle.
Not good enough.
However much his endeavour and ability to do something decent once in a while makes you want him to succeed - this just about sums it up.
A poor mans Ian Taylor - not quite good enough to take us the next level. Kind of sums up the state of recent years when the next level is being to play a moving ball, but there you go.
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I'm not sure why we've persevered with Bacuna when we've got rid of equally crap defenders in Lowton and Luna. He reminds me of Ulises De La Cruz.
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I know thIs is a bacuna thread
But for me with the players we have its crying out for a back three of Richards lescott and okore or Ilori
With Hutton and amavi wing backs
Worked out ok for sir Brian
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Luna was in another league of crapness altogether. At least Bacuna doesn't play with his arms tied behind his back.
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I know thIs is a bacuna thread
But for me with the players we have its crying out for a back three of Richards lescott and okore or Ilori
With Hutton and amavi wing backs
Worked out ok for sir Brian
Amavi is a natural wing back.
Hutton proved against Sunderland when he had the freedom of the park down the right that he isn't.
Am I mad in thinking Westwood might do well there?
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I know thIs is a bacuna thread
But for me with the players we have its crying out for a back three of Richards lescott and okore or Ilori
With Hutton and amavi wing backs
Worked out ok for sir Brian
I agree with this. I'd play with 3 centre backs and 2 wing backs which would take pressure off the problem right back position. We have strong central defenders and I'd love to see 2 wing backs bombing down the flanks. I'm pretty sure this is in Sherwood's long term thinking as well.
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I still think Okore is the better option at RB. He's got pace and power and won't just hoof the ball. Surely a way better defender than Bacuna??
Even more logical for me would be Okore playing at RCB where he's supposed to and Richards at RB where he'd be free to push up the pitch just as he likes to
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With a back three you defend as a five and attack as a midfield five
For me it should be
Guzan
Richards. Lescott. Okore
Hutton. Sanchez. Westwood. Amavi
Gil. Grealish
Gestede/gabby/Kozak
See this manager stuff is easy
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Where do Traore and Gueye fit into that formation?
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Luna was in another league of crapness altogether. At least Bacuna doesn't play with his arms tied behind his back.
Did anyone else notice against Leicester nearly every time the ball came into the box Richards did the same sticking chest out whilst holding arms behind back. I think it's something he learned on the continent about not hand balling
I think it's gash
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With a back three you defend as a five and attack as a midfield five
For me it should be
Guzan
Richards. Lescott. Okore
Hutton. Sanchez. Westwood. Amavi
Gil. Grealish
Gestede/gabby/Kozak
See this manager stuff is easy
Okore is as right footed as Staunton was left footed.
If you really want to play that way it would have to be
Okore Richards Lescott.
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Gueye in for Sanchez then and Sinclair and Traore in for grealish or is it Sinclair in for grealish.
Or shall I leave them on the bench just my thoughts
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Gueye in for Sanchez then and Sinclair and Traore in for grealish or is it Sinclair in for grealish.
Or shall I leave them on the bench just my thoughts
All of them go on the bench before Grealish.
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With a back three you defend as a five and attack as a midfield five
For me it should be
Guzan
Richards. Lescott. Okore
Hutton. Sanchez. Westwood. Amavi
Gil. Grealish
Gestede/gabby/Kozak
See this manager stuff is easy
Okore is as right footed as Staunton was left footed.
If you really want to play that way it would have to be
Okore Richards Lescott.
I think Lescott's lack of pace and mobility would be an issue on the left handside of a back 3. Also, the central player of the 3 really needs to be a decent ball player, so I'd be looking at Ilori to do this if that's a formation we're going to be looking at. My choice (longer term) would be;
Richards - Ilori - Clark
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I know thIs is a bacuna thread
But for me with the players we have its crying out for a back three of Richards lescott and okore or Ilori
With Hutton and amavi wing backs
Worked out ok for sir Brian
I agree with this. I'd play with 3 centre backs and 2 wing backs which would take pressure off the problem right back position. We have strong central defenders and I'd love to see 2 wing backs bombing down the flanks. I'm pretty sure this is in Sherwood's long term thinking as well.
It depends on who we are playing against - It's a formation that stopped being popular (i.e stopped working) when teams starting playing with runners behind a central striker rather than two up front. In Little's day most of the league played a pretty standard 4-4-2.
When you have one focal striker (like most of the league use now) then you have three defenders all covering that same threat. The end result is that your centre-backs are likely to get drawn towards the ball and end up out of position. It's a recipe to make our defence even more confused than it is now.
It's all well and good doing it just because it means Amavi can get forward more, but doesn't allow for what you lose elsewhere. If we're playing against a straightforward 4-4-2 then fine, but against most of the league then we'd likely end up in a bit of a mess.
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Luna was in another league of crapness altogether. At least Bacuna doesn't play with his arms tied behind his back.
Did anyone else notice against Leicester nearly every time the ball came into the box Richards did the same sticking chest out whilst holding arms behind back. I think it's something he learned on the continent about not hand balling
I think it's gash
Agree, it's become fashionable to do it though, Chelsea players do it
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With a back three you defend as a five and attack as a midfield five
For me it should be
Guzan
Richards. Lescott. Okore
Hutton. Sanchez. Westwood. Amavi
Gil. Grealish
Gestede/gabby/Kozak
See this manager stuff is easy
Okore is as right footed as Staunton was left footed.
If you really want to play that way it would have to be
Okore Richards Lescott.
I think Lescott's lack of pace and mobility would be an issue on the left handside of a back 3. Also, the central player of the 3 really needs to be a decent ball player, so I'd be looking at Ilori to do this if that's a formation we're going to be looking at. My choice (longer term) would be;
Richards - Ilori - Clark
To be fair, Gareth Barry wasn't blessed with lightening pace but looked like Carlos Alberto in that position when he first broke into the team.
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he takes a lot of stick on here,
but that first time ball he put over last night was perfection
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That was Amavi.
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That was Amavi.
That was Amavi.
just testing
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I thought the goal from Libor Kozak was pretty special as well
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He looked shit scared for most of the game.
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Where do Traore and Gueye fit into that formation?
Gil Grealish Ayew and Traore will have to fight it out. Not a bad state of affairs from a club point of view.
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Imagine having to play them in 5-a-side...thats what nightmares are made of.
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Bacuna managed to do his usual 'stand there watching as your man goes past you' thing regularly even against absolute shit opposition like Small Heath.
I don't mind him in midfield so much but at right back, defensively, he's an absolute liability.
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I don't think he can be trusted in either role
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In two/three seasons he's had a handful of decent games and scored a couple of good goals.
He's not a full-back and I thought he was a bit of a liability on Tuesday, against pretty poor opposition.
I'd pick Hutton in front of him every time...and hope that when Okore and Ilori are match fit we can improve that RB area by some way.
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Bacuna managed to do his usual 'stand there watching as your man goes past you' thing regularly even against absolute shit opposition like Small Heath.
I don't mind him in midfield so much but at right back, defensively, he's an absolute liability.
It will be interesting to see what happens when we get a proper wide man in the side. Will he keep Bacuna in because he is a better passer of the ball so will get it to the winger more quickly or will he opt for Hutton's defensive qualities? I don't think we are at the stage yet of being able to second guess the manager.
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Bacuna managed to do his usual 'stand there watching as your man goes past you' thing regularly even against absolute shit opposition like Small Heath.
I don't mind him in midfield so much but at right back, defensively, he's an absolute liability.
It will be interesting to see what happens when we get a proper wide man in the side. Will he keep Bacuna in because he is a better passer of the ball so will get it to the winger more quickly or will he opt for Hutton's defensive qualities? I don't think we are at the stage yet of being able to second guess the manager.
My immediate thinking would be that solid but limited Hutton would be preferable behind a flying machine like Traore, with instructions to stay back and kill anyone that looks at Traore the wrong way.
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I suspect that'll be how it's done. As soon as Traore comes in, I reckon Hutton will be needed. As soon as the transfer window comes, a new right back will be needed.
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Where do Traore and Gueye fit into that formation?
Gil Grealish Ayew and Traore will have to fight it out. Not a bad state of affairs from a club point of view.
Agree with the sentiment.
From what we saw the other night, Ayew might have something to offer on the right (and looked better than I have given him credit for). Having him and Traore as options is great.
But Grealish is a class or five above Gill. Serously irriates me when anyone so much as mentions Gill and Grealish in the same breath.
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I suspect that'll be how it's done. As soon as Traore comes in, I reckon Hutton will be needed. As soon as the transfer window comes, a new right back will be needed.
Am I dreaming it or was Hutton largely very good and getting loads of praise last season? I really don't understand the clamor to be shot of him.
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I suspect that'll be how it's done. As soon as Traore comes in, I reckon Hutton will be needed. As soon as the transfer window comes, a new right back will be needed.
Am I dreaming it or was Hutton largely very good and getting loads of praise last season? I really don't understand the clamor to be shot of him.
He was less crap than the rest at the start of the season.
I like his intention to get forward, but doesn't have any quality to a decent ball into the danger area.
In defence he's an accident or a sending off waiting to happen.
Not exactly decent credentials.
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With a back three you defend as a five and attack as a midfield five
For me it should be
Guzan
Richards. Lescott. Okore
Hutton. Sanchez. Westwood. Amavi
Gil. Grealish
Gestede/gabby/Kozak
See this manager stuff is easy
Get rid of Lescott for starters.
If you thought Bacuna was bad, Lescott was awful.
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With a back three you defend as a five and attack as a midfield five
For me it should be
Guzan
Richards. Lescott. Okore
Hutton. Sanchez. Westwood. Amavi
Gil. Grealish
Gestede/gabby/Kozak
See this manager stuff is easy
Get rid of Lescott for starters.
If you thought Bacuna was bad, Lescott was awful.
Wing backs would work well for Amavi - he's weak defensively.
Hutton on the right - oh dear!
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Leandro is a good useful honest player but not quite good enough to improve us so as soon as we have better options he will be a very good sub on the bench.
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With a back three you defend as a five and attack as a midfield five
For me it should be
Guzan
Richards. Lescott. Okore
Hutton. Sanchez. Westwood. Amavi
Gil. Grealish
Gestede/gabby/Kozak
See this manager stuff is easy
Get rid of Lescott for starters.
If you thought Bacuna was bad, Lescott was awful.
Wing backs would work well for Amavi - he's weak defensively.
Hutton on the right - oh dear!
Don't agree. He had probably the best player so far this season, Mahrez, in his pocket for 45 minutes. So much so, they moved him infield so he would get a kick.
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I hope no one minds this thread popping back up.
But this guy has gone from being a possible mid-table player to being one I wouldn't even play in non-league.
His crossing, touch, running are all atrocious.
Or is it i'm just noticing it more now?
Even way I don't think he should be getting anywhere near that teamsheet these days!
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I never want to see his guy in a Villa shirt again.
Play Lyden till the end of the season. Planning for next year is all we can do right now and he shouldn't be in that plan.
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I hope no one minds this thread popping back up.
But this guy has gone from being a possible mid-table player to being one I wouldn't even play in non-league.
His crossing, touch, running are all atrocious.
Or is it i'm just noticing it more now?
Even way I don't think he should be getting anywhere near that teamsheet these days!
I have genuniely disliked him from day one. Awful player
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Death to him. A prick of the highest accolade. Shit player, too
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Bacuna's performance in the first half was the most cowardly I think I've seen in a Villa shirt. He was clearly hiding from the ball, never made a positive run or tried to help Richards when he had it and never even looked for a forward pass when he had it himself.
I can't speak for the second half as I was on my way home but think it's safe to say there was little improvement looking at the score.
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His lack of ability is one thing, the fact that he plays like he dosent give a fuck is what singles him out. I can not wait to see the back of him.
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His lack of ability is one thing, the fact that he plays like he dosent give a fuck is what singles him out. I can not wait to see the back of him.
his hair looks nice
spent time on those razor cuts
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His lack of ability is one thing, the fact that he plays like he dosent give a fuck is what singles him out. I can not wait to see the back of him.
his hair looks nice
spent time on those razor cuts
And those Tatoos, nice throat job and then the hair colour scheme. If the twat cared as much about his appearance
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There is always a scapegoat when things turn to shit.
In Bacuna's case though, it totally and utterly justified.
All the trappings of a premier league player, the orange boots, the Mohican, the tattoos.
All the trappings of a premier league player but with none of the playing qualities of one.
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But that free kick against Man City, though.
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An absolute atrocious footballer! And an absolute wanker.
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Appalling player he's absolutely shocking I hope I never have to see him in a Villa shirt again. The bare minimum you expect is effort and to give your all he couldn't even be bothered doing that, one of the reasons were in this mess buying and playing useless tossers like him.
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Looked like he had been out on the piss, didn't boo him though , like the player I couldn't be bothered.He is on a long contract as well :(
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I would not be surprised if somebody runs onto the pitch and gives him a slap to be honest. Failing that his car should be keyed.
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Well considering we gave him a 5 year contract extension, don't get your hopes up that he'll be leaving anytime soon.
You truly couldn't make it up.
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I've never jumped on the Bacuna hate until now... That was fucking awful, he stood out amongst that pile of wank as easily the worst player, thats some achievement.
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Please don't play him again, Remi. He's utter pish.
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I said in the match thread he could actually be the worst player in the league. Truly awful today, I would be embarrassed to call myself a football player
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Because Liverpool scored yet again and Leo was substituted at that point, he did even have to face the boos from the crowd as he walked off.
Remi should have delayed the substitution to the next stoppage in play so that the crowd could give Bacuna the works individually
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None out of ten. Embarrassing.
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The scary thing is how bad is our set-up if he's the best option. We're not asking for someone who could cut it in the championship or even div.1 standard. Just someone better than Bacuna. If there's really no-one currently playing in the youth who promises more than that plank, then they should close the entire set-up
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In 50 yer a time, when things get bad, we can turn to the young uns and say that at least they've been spared the misfortune of seeing the likes of Bacuna and Westwood play 50-100 plus games for us.
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You are right as usual Ads. The only way I can get through a game like that is by saying " you think Bacuna is bad you should have seen Miller Craddock".
As much as that Villa performance hurt today, and it hurt like hell with bells on, it did not hurt as much as the Cup Final which could easily have been 6-0 or worse.
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I would play Tonev ahead of Bacuna.
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I would play Tonev ahead of Bacuna.
Fabio Ferraresi is free if required. Couldn't be any worse.
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Appalling player, but everyone has known this since he arrived.
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Cheap gamble, one or two performances of note a season which were exagerated and used to hide his limitation, which is pretty much playing football. He should have been thanked for a couple of years work and given a cheerio not given another contract so we didn't have to replace him.
Another with appalling technique. Who scouts these donkeys?
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Another with appalling technique. Who scouts these donkeys?
People with knowledge of our very limited budgets.
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Three words:
Five
Year
Contract
Sleep well, folks...
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Another with appalling technique. Who scouts these donkeys?
People with knowledge of our very limited budgets.
Wollschield, Krkic, Diouff, Pieters, Arnautovic, Clynne, Montero, Michu, Chico, Mahrez, Vardy, Huth. Just off the top of my head, players who cost the same or less than Bacuna, not on big wages. We seem to scout technically some of the worst players in the division.
Luna, Tonev, Crespo, Bacuna, Gestede. All of them utter cloggers who can't get a ball under control.
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Three words:
Five
Year
Contract
Sleep well, folks...
If you ever needed proof that a fool and his money are soon parted, then that's it. A five year contract. Who on god's earth decided that that was a good idea? On top of the similarly ridiculous contracts fior Westwood and Agbonlahor as well. It's when you see the stupidity of things like that, that you realise just how buggered we are, and probably for a good while to come.
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Three words:
Five
Year
Contract
Sleep well, folks...
If you ever needed proof that a fool and his money are soon parted, then that's it. A five year contract. Who on god's earth decided that that was a good idea? On top of the similarly ridiculous contracts fior Westwood and Agbonlahor as well. It's when you see the stupidity of things like that, that you realise just how buggered we are, and probably for a good while to come.
Poor old Lowton, why didn't he get a 6 year deal for his screamer?
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Lowton signed a new 4 year deal that summer.
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Lowton signed a new 4 year deal that summer.
Genius!
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Even Bennett got chucked another year didn't he?
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Lowton signed a new 4 year deal that summer.
He should have hired a decent agent
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A lot of our players are so bad they must have been signed in the dark but I now suspect Bacuna is a Small Health plant.
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Even Bennett got chucked another year didn't he?
Wish they'd all chuck a seven.
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Bacuna plays every week and is completely useless.what the fuck does the club see in him? Jeez.
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
I thought it was a call-up with Curaçao?
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
I thought it was a call-up with Curaçao?
Looks a nice place
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
My guess is Van Gaal tipped off Dutch Coach, Danny Blind about Bacuna in the hope that Holland have a shit Euros and he gets the job.
Either that or Blind by nature, Blind by name.
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
My guess is Van Gaal tipped off Dutch Coach, Danny Blind about Bacuna in the hope that Holland have a shit Euros and he gets the job.
Either that or Blind by nature, Blind by name.
I'll bet anything the Dutch don't do well at the Euros!
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
My guess is Van Gaal tipped off Dutch Coach, Danny Blind about Bacuna in the hope that Holland have a shit Euros and he gets the job.
Either that or Blind by nature, Blind by name.
I'll bet anything the Dutch don't do well at the Euros!
I'll bet they lose less games than England
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Just shows being half-arsed, jumping out of challenges, being positionally poor and just generally crap is no barrier to an International career!
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Might make him easier to off load at the end of the season.
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Might make him easier to off load at the end of the season.
He isn't leaving and I bet he'll do fine in the Championship. When he was doing well at times he looked a really good signing. As the team struggled he has really fallen off the map in terms of form. But I think at a lower level and if the team starts to enjoy playing again, he'll look decent again.
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Might make him easier to off load at the end of the season.
He isn't leaving and I bet he'll do fine in the Championship. When he was doing well at times he looked a really good signing. As the team struggled he has really fallen off the map in terms of form. But I think at a lower level and if the team starts to enjoy playing again, he'll look decent again.
Agree, TV.
I think he gets more than a fair share of stick considering the whole team are playing poorly.
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Fucking abysmal player. Out!
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
I thought it was a call-up with Curaçao?
It is. They're managed by Patrick Kluivert. Which is probably a fairly nice managerial gig.
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Jesus! Call up to Holland squad
wow! how bad are Holland now ???
I thought it was a call-up with Curaçao?
It is. They're managed by Patrick Kluivert. Which is probably a fairly nice managerial gig.
better than managing chasetown :-)
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Ha ha, so not the Netherlands at all. Bit like confusing a call up for England with Jamaica.
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Ha ha, so not the Netherlands at all. Bit like confusing a call up for England with Jamaica.
"Great news, I've been given an international call-up by the US...
...Virgin Islands."
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Ha ha, so not the Netherlands at all. Bit like confusing a call up for England with Jamaica.
"Great news, I've been given an international call-up by the US...
...Virgin Islands."
Mom, Dad I'm making my debut next month for the Dutch
...Antilles
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Lends a whole new meaning to Dutch Cap!
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Ha ha, so not the Netherlands at all. Bit like confusing a call up for England with Jamaica.
"Great news, I've been given an international call-up by the US...
...Virgin Islands."
I've just been called up for the Scottish......senior football team.
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He'd personally be my first choice at right back ahead of Hutton and Richards.
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He'd personally be my first choice at right back ahead of Hutton and Richards.
I agree, he's got flaws but he can put a decent cross in and when your main forward is a head on a stick that's an important attribute.
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Like poor Jules Joachim holding out for England but eventually flying out to play for St Vincent and the Grenadines only to be told he was ineligible cos of England U21 caps.
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Bacuna sums up this Villa era, overpaid idiot , long contract, shocking attitude and no where near good enough.
I can't wait to see the back of this cheat.
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Like poor Jules Joachim holding out for England but eventually flying out to play for St Vincent and the Grenadines only to be told he was ineligible cos of England U21 caps.
I bet that trip was hell.
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Ooh good. Are we talking about Leandro again? He's great isn't he?
-
a top, top tool
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He'd personally be my first choice at right back ahead of Hutton and Richards.
I agree, he's got flaws but he can put a decent cross in and when your main forward is a head on a stick that's an important attribute.
One thing that annoyed me so much yesterday was Hutton finding himself with the ball in great attacking positions and not putting a cross in. It was as though he'd been instructed "you're not allowed to cross the ball. You must pass it back".
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It's all much of a muchness isn't it? Like the people who call for Guzan when Bunn was in goal and now the people calling for Bunn to return.
Clue...they're all a load of shite.
In fairness Bacuna has had good spells at RB for us, he did well there first season and in the run in last year. When you look at it though all his assists were pretty much due to how brilliant a forward Benteke was for us.
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This lad is fucking shit at football.
-
A five year contract? Who in their right mind......
Apart from Gallagher, Ormsby and Callaghan, Bacuna is the worst I have seen in a Villa shirt.
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This lad is fucking shit at football.
this
when you have players like bacuna and westwood starting regularly you end up exactly where we are now
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Brendan Ormsby was a pillar of reliability compared to Leandro Bacuna.
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We love a scapegoat at times don't we? I've seen worse players down there.
-
Westwood is far worse than Bacuna. But it is like saying which piece of shit stinks less
-
Curaçao eh? I bet his agent agitates for a move to a big club at the end of the season. Which would be a real shame.
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Curaçao eh? I bet his agent agitates for a move to a big club at the end of the season. Which would be a real shame.
Always happens on international duty doesn't it? A player gets into their international setup and all of a sudden they're angling for a move to the likes of Centro Dominguito or SV Hubentut Fortuna.
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http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-player-im-looking-11100410
I've only just stopped laughing.
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I don't mind paying if air fare if he promises never to come back
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Hahaha I can't stop laughing either. Champions league he's having a laugh.
Good riddance to the poor excuse of a football player. The sooner the better!!!!
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Champions League eh? It's on BT Sport Leandro.
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As ludicrous as it sounds it's not impossible. Just needs to play for a team in a weaker (less challenging) league that provides him the opportunity to qualify for the competition. He's not good enough for the PL, but what if ends up at a team in Holland or Austria or Denmark?
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Dear Leandro
I have checked Wikipedia and the Champions League first qualifying round matches for next season commence 28-29 June. So, on the downside this may interfere with your summer holidays. You could consider a move to whoever wins the domestic league in places such as Gibralter, Armenia, the Faroes Islands or Andorra.
However, I have further checked and it appears The New Saints are presently 8 points clear in the Welsh League. On the upside this would mean you wouldn't have to move house as it's only about an hour and half drive from Birmingham along some pleasant A roads. Perhaps your agent could put out some feelers ?
Bora Da !
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So, did he have these plans when he recently penned a 5 year contract extension?
Bacuna is one of our 'players' that I actually fucking despise.
I don't like most of them. I hate a lot of them, and despise a few.
Bacuna is right up there with the worst.
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Another ridiculous story. Is there anyone sane at the club who has been there longer than 2 months? They're all absolutely off their rockers.
-
It speaks volumes about the commitment and collective thinking of the squad that a player - regardless of who - can so brazenly declare when they plan to leave. Shouldn't the sole objective (at least publicly) be to optimise the player's current club?
Can you imagine how Ferguson would react to this sort of comment?
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Learn how to control a football first leandro! Then learn wot to do with the football when one day u might have it under control my friend!! Then if u can master these two simplest of tasks. Learn how to get the fuck out of villa park and never come back! U shirt wasting time wasting waste of space!
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More often than not this type of behaviour seems to affect Dutch and Belgian players, must be something in the water I reckon.
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Two years? The sooner this incompetent grinning halfwit clears the hell off the better.
-
The last player to live off a free kick as much as he has was Roberto Carlos.
-
It was a fabulous free kick mind you and a great result.
-
It's a knob comment to make, but at the same time I want players at the club that want to better themselves rather than just be happy picking up their wages at the Villa regardless of how we're doing, whether they are playing etc. Ideally though I want them to do it with us first and foremost.
-
Delusional
-
Ta ra
-
Curaçao eh? I bet his agent agitates for a move to a big club at the end of the season. Which would be a real shame.
Always happens on international duty doesn't it? A player gets into their international setup and all of a sudden they're angling for a move to the likes of Centro Dominguito or SV Hubentut Fortuna.
The other thing that seems to happen regularly as well is these type of comments are made to the local press. Do the players think that these stories will not be translated and passed around.
Further proof, sadly that our players just don't give a fuck about Aston Villa.
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Get rid. Fucking bellend. He's just a bloody appalling player and evidently rates himself a bit too much. I'm all for arrogance in the Ronaldo way, where you can back it up with quality. But Bacuna is one of the worst players we've ever had. Okay, granted he could go and play for Ajax and PSV, they're bloody shit. The Dutch league is crap. But he'll be made to look bloody horrendous playing in the Champions League. What a clogger.
Bugger off. I don't want to see that irksome grin and stupid haircut on the Villa Park turf ever again. Waster.
-
Seriously, I'm seeing this as very good news. I was fearful that much of the dead wood on long contracts would simply sit it out (a la N'Zog), however statements like these give me heart that they'll get themselves a move and we can begin to rebuild.
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It just goes to show what a collection of twats we've accumulated in our squad. Most of them are so far up their own arse they've turned themselves inside out. We've got to turf these assholes out. This squad needs shredding.
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What a joker. He'll be doing us a favour so the sooner he goes the better.
-
Reminds me of when Coker reckoned he was on his way to Inter (?). That said Bacuna isn't fit to lace Coker's boots. It's like comparing a non-league clogger to Beckenbauer. And Coker was bang average.
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Balaban, Gallagher, Ormsby and Bacuna. Total shit. Never fit for a Villa shirt. Diabolical excuse for a footballer and whoever gave him that five deal is also a complete tool.
-
Reminds me of when Coker reckoned he was on his way to Inter (?). That said Bacuna isn't fit to lace Coker's boots. It's like comparing a non-league clogger to Beckenbauer. And Coker was bang average.
I was with you until the last sentence and then you go and over estimate Cokers abilities.
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Reminds me of when Coker reckoned he was on his way to Inter (?). That said Bacuna isn't fit to lace Coker's boots. It's like comparing a non-league clogger to Beckenbauer. And Coker was bang average.
I was with you until the last sentence and then you go and over estimate Cokers abilities.
Okay, Bang average is a little generous. Bacuna still makes him look like Zidane though
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I guess his claim in not that laughable if he moves to Dutch League. May be not Ajax but PSV or 20 in shade could see him playing European football.
-
What a Twat
-
Love his weird sense of humour.....probably in 3 years he be telling the Dutch FA he wants to Captain the national side and lead them on a bus ride around Amsterdam with the world cup in tow.....Complete Tosser.
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What a twat...perhaps he should be reminded of this...
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Club should call his bluff and treat this as a transfer request and accept it
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What a twat...perhaps he should be reminded of this...
😂😂😂😂 never seen this. Sums him up nicely
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Club should call his bluff and treat this as a transfer request and accept it
Actually that's not a bad shout.
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You have to laugh at just how deluded some professional footballers actually are.
-
Balaban, Gallagher, Ormsby and Bacuna. Total shit. Never fit for a Villa shirt. Diabolical excuse for a footballer and whoever gave him that five deal is also a complete tool.
A bit harsh on Gallagher and Ormsby who, as I recall, never gave less than their best.
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(http://maryevanspicturelibrary.typepad.com/.a/6a017d4254a056970c017c387fa165970b-800wi)
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Things like this always make me think how we as football fans often have double standards about players, and i'd imagine we're all guilty of it.
If he was happy to stay and just pick up his wages despite not playing like Zog, he'd be slated. He plays and isn't good enough, not his fault he was signed by Villa and given a new contract or isn't up to the standard we expect, he gets slated. He has belief he's better than we think he is, he gets slated. If he was as good as he thinks he is and was off like Benteke was, he'd be slated.
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Balaban, Gallagher, Ormsby and Bacuna. Total shit. Never fit for a Villa shirt. Diabolical excuse for a footballer and whoever gave him that five deal is also a complete tool.
A bit harsh on Gallagher and Ormsby who, as I recall, never gave less than their best.
Fair comment Ian. They were poor players but, yes, they never just gave up like Bacuna has done, sever times.
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Clubs going through a relegation have inevitably have one or two players who publically plan their escape route. I'm glad it's someone saying this whom 99% of the fan base have mutual feelings about!
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True but there are degrees of slating. Trying to line himself up for a move to pretty unrealistic clubs after being utterly, utterly shite this season and appearing to not give a shite would line him up for a pretty heavy slating. I think as football fans we just want a player to sign, do their best, preferably contribute something, not talk to the media about transfers and only move on if the Villa accept a bid for them. Surely not too much to ask but sadly this happens less and less these days.
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Balaban, Gallagher, Ormsby and Bacuna. Total shit. Never fit for a Villa shirt. Diabolical excuse for a footballer and whoever gave him that five deal is also a complete tool.
A bit harsh on Gallagher and Ormsby who, as I recall, never gave less than their best.
Fair comment Ian. They were poor players but, yes, they never just gave up like Bacuna has done, sever times.
To be fair to Bosko too, he did alright after he left us and I'm fairly sure Bacuna won't do nearly half as well when he moves on. In addition Bacuna has had chance upon chance and persistently failed us. Bosko had a handful of games and never lived up to his potential.
But as we all know we've put ourselves in a position where a lot of players who'd in the past would not have got near our team, or done much more than made a couple of fleeting, unimpressive appearances, have ended up playing well over 50 games for the club despite quite obviously having nowhere near the talent required.
If we were signing someone like Bosko in the last couple of years he'd have had 50 games by now.
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I admire his self belief, if only he could live up to this and help lift the team off the bottom.
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Seriously, I'm seeing this as very good news. I was fearful that much of the dead wood on long contracts would simply sit it out (a la N'Zog), however statements like these give me heart that they'll get themselves a move and we can begin to rebuild.
Exactly what I think. I read it and thought 'great... maybe he will actually f**k off'.
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I've often heard it said on here that Westwood is the worst player to play over 100 games for Villa. Well, I've just read that Bacuna has reached 92 appearances...
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True but there are degrees of slating. Trying to line himself up for a move to pretty unrealistic clubs after being utterly, utterly shite this season and appearing to not give a shite would line him up for a pretty heavy slating. I think as football fans we just want a player to sign, do their best, preferably contribute something, not talk to the media about transfers and only move on if the Villa accept a bid for them. Surely not too much to ask but sadly this happens less and less these days.
For the most part that sounds like Westwood. Who gets slated a lot on here.
Don't get me wrong, i'm as guilty as anyone for doing it, i've done it before and will no doubt do it again to players.
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It's a knob comment to make, but at the same time I want players at the club that want to better themselves rather than just be happy picking up their wages at the Villa regardless of how we're doing, whether they are playing etc. Ideally though I want them to do it with us first and foremost.
Agree.
All he's said is that he wants to improve over the next two years, then, if the opportunity arose, why not.
If he gets a move to Ajax or PSV then he would have improved significantly, which, surely, is good for us?
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It's a knob comment to make, but at the same time I want players at the club that want to better themselves rather than just be happy picking up their wages at the Villa regardless of how we're doing, whether they are playing etc. Ideally though I want them to do it with us first and foremost.
Agree.
All he's said is that he wants to improve over the next two years, then, if the opportunity arose, why not.
If he gets a move to Ajax or PSV then he would have improved significantly, which, surely, is good for us?
improve over the next two years :o
after he has spent the last 3 getting shitter
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It's a knob comment to make, but at the same time I want players at the club that want to better themselves rather than just be happy picking up their wages at the Villa regardless of how we're doing, whether they are playing etc. Ideally though I want them to do it with us first and foremost.
Agree.
All he's said is that he wants to improve over the next two years, then, if the opportunity arose, why not.
If he gets a move to Ajax or PSV then he would have improved significantly, which, surely, is good for us?
improve over the next two years :o
after he has spent the last 3 getting shitter
At least he realises that he must improve.
I couldn't read anything in that interview that indicated that he was blowing smoke up his own arse.
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Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.
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Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.
This. He's coasted for 2 years now, having started reasonably promisingly. Too many of our players have done this, particularly many who weren't brilliant to start with who only managed to get worse.
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As Uncle Junior wisely said.
'And I want to fuck Angie Dickinson, lets see who gets lucky first'.
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Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.
This. He's coasted for 2 years now, having started reasonably promisingly. Too many of our players have done this, particularly many who weren't brilliant to start with who only managed to get worse.
How has he coasted? Or rather, how do we know he's coasting? For all we know he could be working his bollocks off in training in an attempt to get his form/confidence back. Which can't be an easy thing to do when he's in and out a crap team and getting stuck playing in different positions.
He may be a right lazy scrote with a woeful attitude in training, or he may work his balls off to improve himself and us, none of us know as we aren't there so I don't get how folks state stuff as though it's fact about his attitude, what he thinks of himself, that he's coasting etc when we don't have the slightest clue if it's true.
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Bacunas first problem is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is, and people that are deluded about thier ability tend not to spend much time doing something about it.
These are not the words of someone looking to improve, these are the words of an arrogant, self opiniated tosser with ideas well above his station.
This. He's coasted for 2 years now, having started reasonably promisingly. Too many of our players have done this, particularly many who weren't brilliant to start with who only managed to get worse.
How has he coasted? Or rather, how do we know he's coasting? For all we know he could be working his bollocks off in training in an attempt to get his form/confidence back. Which can't be an easy thing to do when he's in and out a crap team and getting stuck playing in different positions.
He may be a right lazy scrote with a woeful attitude in training, or he may work his balls off to improve himself and us, none of us know as we aren't there so I don't get how folks state stuff as though it's fact about his attitude, what he thinks of himself, that he's coasting etc when we don't have the slightest clue if it's true.
We can only go on what we see on the pitch. His smiling when he has messed up, his general demeanour, body language and consistantly below par performances is enough to draw some less than flattering conclusions. Now we can add he thinks he should be playing Champios League football.
Like quite a few, I really do not like Bacuna at all, I think his attitude stinks.
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PWS, watch the Stoke City goals. The half arsed attempts that he makes. It's happening time and time again. Don't watch the goals, just watch him. Shockingly embarrassing player.
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So as I said, it's not fact at all. Loads of sportsmen smile when they fuck up, watch the darts and see how many smile when they miss a double as an example.
Didn't read to me that he thinks he should be playing in the CL, just that within a couple of years he'd hope to. Maybe people would be happier if he, or any player, said "As long as I get paid i'll happily sit on the bench in the Championship and see out my contract, Zog is my hero!"?
There will be very few players that have reached playing at PL level that won't be full of self confidence in their own ability. They need it to get this far. I bet the vast majority even playing in Division 3 think they are better than they are and believe they could play at a higher level.
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PWS, watch the Stoke City goals. The half arsed attempts that he makes. It's happening time and time again. Don't watch the goals, just watch him. Shockingly embarrassing player.
Nowhere have I defended his ability, simply pointing out that his self belief is no different to nearly every other professional player and that I don't why people state stuff as fact that they are simply guessing at.
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If it helps clarify, I quite like him and have said so before, but he has been utter gash for most of this season. Especially in defence, although in a bit fairness to him, he is a winger. I bet Daley/Walters/Young/Morley etc would have caused us all to have nightmares if it was decided to stick him as a fullback on a regular basis. And yes, I know that even as a winger Bacuna isn't anywhere near their level, they are used as examples.
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We don't see on the training pitch granted. And granted it may be a confidence matter but some players grab a chance and kick on, regardless of how the team itself is doing. Some players maintain some consistency. Some players you can see an improvement season on season. For me Bacuna, from what I've seen on the pitch is a player who isn't short of confidence, more the skill required and he's not worked enough on his game. We can blame coaching but some players need to be willing to give more to improve as players. Not that quoting the Birmingham Mail would stand up in a court of law but Bacuna was openly questioned by Garde in the press. Garde hasn't been shy about lamenting our squad's application either. So I'm not just pissing in the wind. But like I say, I'm not gonna take too much notice of the media but Leo doesn't help himself sometimes between chillaxing on a sunlounger or angling for a move. These things will be taken out of context, it's football fan forum law.
Bacuna and Westwood are examples of players who very quickly hit a brick wall having shown flashes of potential. They've since almost fallen into the team, time and time again without having to do much to warrant their place. To me that's coasting. It's not all on them, it's of course down to the way the club has been run, the squad accumulated, the managers who have come in, but there's no danger of Bacuna giving the impression that he's giving his absolute all for the club. No danger at all. Facts or not he's got to go.
Leo also came into the club billed as a utility man, yet he's been mostly poor in every position. In fact he's only ever played well as a right back in a brief run in his first season and the odd game here and there since (usually in games where we're inexplicably comfortable in defence). Seeing him lose runners consistently and also fail to make too much effort to track back is a sight I don't want to see next season. And yes to be fair when it comes to standing idly while we're getting shredded to pieces at the back, he's certainly not alone. He's got to go though. That's definitely a (Benitez impression) FACT.
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Just read his interview mentioning playing in the Champions League for PSV or Ajax in two years time.
Shit for brains this kid..
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If only he were as good as he seems to think he is .
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Sounds to me like he would quite like to go back home to Holland, and if possible play for one of the top two or three teams there. This isn't beyond the realms of possibility given that the Dutch league isn't exactly of the highest standard.
The Mail have just picked up the Champions League bit as a rod for Villa fans to batter him with. Yes, he's been awful this season (who hasn't in that squad) and note he did say he would have to improve his game, but it's hardly a deluded wish to want to play for Ajax or PSV is it? He has been called up to the Dutch squad, and while I doubt they'd pay much of fee for him (or match the wages we pay him, which is why I assume he wants to wait a few years first), he'd probably do an okay job in the Eredivisie.
It's not as if he's talking about joining Barcelona is it?
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He has been called up to the Dutch squad...
Erm... not quite.
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Did Bacuna play for Curaçao in either game over the weekend?
I can find the results but not the teams
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After reading some of these posts which included the words, wanker, tosser, fuck off etc, I was half tempted check to see if Bacuna had got himself caught up in some trouble off the pitch. So, he said he'd like to play Champions League football someday, so what? It's hardly the crime of the century. Someone said to me on here a while back that Bacuna's an easy target and he was absolutely right. He's been poor this season, but so have many others.
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All he needed to say to any reporter was: "Right now I'm an Aston Villa player, and all I'm thinking about at the moment is doing my best for my club."
Dream all you like in private, but you've been elevated to a state of privilege unimaginable to most Villa fans. Respect that and respect the club that put you there.
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Sorry, I forgot to add:
... you grinning halfwit.
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If it was a one off I could let it go but it isn't. Leandro, you are one of the reasons we are where we are you stupid fucktard.
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Did Bacuna play for Curaçao in either game over the weekend?
I can find the results but not the teams
OS says that he "tasted success" so presumably he played.
Or they don't know either and just saw that Curacao won.
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He started according to Transfermarkt.
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Curacao?? Where the ruddy hell is that? It sounds nice though. Maybe it's what Bacuna daydreams about when he drifts off on the pitch.
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Curacao?? Where the ruddy hell is that? It sounds nice though. Maybe it's what Bacuna daydreams about when he drifts off on the pitch.
I worked out there 13 years ago and hadn't heard of it before I went. Next to Aruba off the Venuzualen coast with an oil refinery. Majority of drugs from South America come through there to Amsterdam (it's in the Netherlands Antilles).
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(it's in the Netherlands Antilles).
Or for us old farts the Dutch Antilles
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Thinking about it, The New Saints (TNS) in the Welsh Premier will qualify for Champions League
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(it's in the Netherlands Antilles).
Or for us old farts the Dutch Antilles
It's always been the Netherlands Antilles, since it was formed as a group in 1954 until the were officially separated into different countries in 2010.
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(it's in the Netherlands Antilles).
Or for us old farts the Dutch Antilles
It's always been the Netherlands Antilles, since it was formed as a group in 1954 until the were officially separated into different countries in 2010.
I seem to remember the Dutch Antilles on news reports in the 70's.
They were always "informally called" the Dutch Antilles according to Wikki
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Well, at least Bacuna is playing international football, albeit for a country that would struggle to beat Lundy (although they'd easily defeat Villa). It's not as if he was ever going to be selected for the Dutch team from Holland in The Netherlands.
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Stoke is about his level, in fact scrub that, Hull, he can get a ferry to Europe from Hull. The mans an arse.
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Well, at least Bacuna is playing international football, albeit for a country that would struggle to beat Lundy (although they'd easily defeat Villa). It's not as if he was ever going to be selected for the Dutch team from Holland in The Netherlands.
You say that but they called up Van Arnholt for the England match.
A couple of flukey goals over xmas isn't going to convince me he isn't one of the worst starting regular players in the premier league along with Bacuna.
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I don't get the vitriol for Bacuna. He's not the best player we've ever had but he's also nowhere near the worst. I hadn't actually looked at this thread for ages and when I clicked the new posts button it took me to May last year where almost every post was singing his praises.
I suspect the change in under a year has been in terms of perception rather than his ability.
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He's had good spells for under Lambert and Sherwood.
This season he's been dreadful but like so many without Benteke bailing them out they all look so poor.
I actually think he'll be alright for us in the championship if he stays, will score and assist a bit down there with the poorer quality.
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Stoke is about his level, in fact scrub that, Hull, he can get a ferry to Europe from Hull. The mans an arse.
At the moment Stoke are streets ahead of us, so that's quite a complement
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Stoke is about his level, in fact scrub that, Hull, he can get a ferry to Europe from Hull. The mans an arse.
At the moment Stoke are streets ahead of us, so that's quite a complement
He wouldn't get into Hull's side either. Mumbles might have him at Blackburn if he's not been sacked
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His desire to play CL football has alerted Real Madrid - they are hoping they draw whomever he goes to play for in the first round so they can put their U17 team out and still comfortably dominate down the left!
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Champions League!!! Haha. Is this the same bacuna who played against Wycombe this season and following a pathetic display laughed in the faces of angry Villa fans???? What planet is he on in his tiny mind??? League 1 or 2 is more his level and that's being kind to one of the poorest footballers I've ever seen represent my team in terms of ability, skill, work ethic and attitude. Unfortunately most, if not all of the others currently play for AVFC now!!!!
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Glad to see he got booed every time he touched the ball. Wanker
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As I said in the match thread, I can see why he got hammered, but I think it's a tad unfair he was singled out while the likes of Richards and Lescott who are at least as big a pair of wankers as Bacuna got away scot free.
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Glad to see he got booed every time he touched the ball. Wanker
Fully deserved. Shame Richards, Lescott and Guzan didn't too.
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As I said in the match thread, I can see why he got hammered, but I think it's a tad unfair he was singled out while the likes of Richards and Lescott who are at least as big a pair of wankers as Bacuna got away scot free.
You're probably right, but when emotions are running high, logic goes out of the window.
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As I said in the match thread, I can see why he got hammered, but I think it's a tad unfair he was singled out while the likes of Richards and Lescott who are at least as big a pair of wankers as Bacuna got away scot free.
you are right , I thought it would have been a great idea to have had Gabby in the squad and bought him on , can just imagine the shit he would have got.
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In fact i'd definitely have Richards higher than Bacuna on the Wanker-o-meter.
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Bacuna isn't a wanker. He's just not very good at PL level and he's shot of all confidence. The timing of his comments were just naive, but it shouldn't be a criticism for him to have ambition. Even if it is somewhat misguided and nonsensical.
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I booed the fuck out of the grinning gobshite. He's an embrassement to the club. ******.
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I booed the fuck out of the grinning gobshite. He's an embrassement to the club. c***.
top work
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Half hearted, smirking goon, give him pelters everytime he walks on the pitch.
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Never has 'champions league - you're having a laugh' been sung so fittingly.
He is a wanker - a smug , smirking, shithouse of a player.
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Yeah I've stuck up for Bacuna in the past. He did show flashes in a Villa shirt, but has become another one who just hasn't been good enough. I agree that he is not one you can claim has a lack of committment just a lack of quailty perhaps.
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I booed the fuck out of the grinning gobshite. He's an embrassement to the club. c***.
You, me and many others mate!
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It comes to something when the only person in football that I dislike more than Bacuna is Robbie Savage. Called the comments naïve if you like, but they show me that the man is just not in touch with reality, not in touch with how he is playing and clearly thinks that none of the current malaise at Villa is his fault. Total fool. Terrible player.
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It comes to something when the only person in football that I dislike more than Bacuna is Robbie Savage. Called the comments naïve if you like, but they show me that the man is just not in touch with reality, not in touch with how he is playing and clearly thinks that none of the current malaise at Villa is his fault. Total fool. Terrible player.
We were discussing if Steve H***e was more hated than LB? Don't think he got as much abuse during matches? as I recall
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He deserved the scorn heaped on him but in comparison Richards, Agbonlahor and Lescott should be needing ear plugs next time they set foot on the pitch.
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Bacuna is nowhere near Richards in the wanker stakes for me, never mind some of the other tossers we've had over the years.
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he's the tallest dwarf amongst the dwarfs
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Bacuna is one of those players who would be fine at Championship level but needs now to move on.
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Bacuna is one of those players who would be fine at Championship level but needs now to move on.
Fixed that for you
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I think there is very good reasons why Bacuna got the stick he got.
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I think there is very good reasons why Bacuna got the stick he got.
No shit Sherlock
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Bacuna is one of those players who would be fine at Championship level but needs now to move on can go and fuck himself.
Fixed that for you
And I have fixed it for you.
And please don't call be Jim.
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I think there is very good reasons why Bacuna got the stick he got.
No shit Sherlock
thanks Doctor, fills pipe, removes deer stalker.
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Bacuna is one of those players who would be fine at Championship level but needs now to move on.
Even though we're soon to be at Championship level?
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I took it as TV meaning the fans have turned too much on him for him to have a future with us even if could do a job for us next season.
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Can't believe I'm typing this but I'd be perfectly comfortable with individual players getting targeted for some real vocal abuse. Let Richards know what a twat he is, give Bacuna the full treatment. What's the worst thing that could happen? Their form couldn't drop any lower and they couldn't give less of a shit already. And seeing them on the pitch while thousands of fans are giving it to them with both barrels would provide the only comfort I can think of at this point in time. It's the only time in their privileged, cocooned careers that they actually have to listen to the fans.
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I took it as TV meaning the fans have turned too much on him for him to have a future with us even if could do a job for us next season.
Yes. There are some players who need to find a new place of employment. I'm sure Richards would be fine too though instead of another club, I would rather see him tied to a train track at New Street.
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Bacuna is unfortunate with the timing of his champions league chat. He doesn't deserve to be singled out too much. At least he tries, unlike local boy Gabby.
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Chelsea fans singing "Joleyon Lescott''s got a new car" was funny. He reminds me of a school kid who would next week bring a note in from his Mom saying he can't do games 'cos he's got a verucca.
As for Bacunna. This is the first game I've seen him involved in where he hasn't had that stupid grin. I hope I never see him in the shirt again. He's never been anywhere near good enough.
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Bacuna is unfortunate with the timing of his champions league chat. He doesn't deserve to be singled out too much. At least he tries, unlike local boy Gabby.
Sorry to pick on this post my friend but I violently disagree with this. Bacuna tries? I have never known a player try less. Have a look through some of the goals we have conceded this season and just watch Bacuna, not the ball or the goal, just te player. He is a chronic worthless player.
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Bacuna is unfortunate with the timing of his champions league chat. He doesn't deserve to be singled out too much. At least he tries, unlike local boy Gabby.
if that is trying i dread to think what a half arsed performance would look like. :o
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Just take one aspect of Bacuna's play. He bottles every 50/50 ball. Every one. He refuses to put himself remotely near pain. For that single reason alone he deserves what he gets. He makes Downing look like Nathan Baker he is such a coward.
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Chelsea fans singing "Joleyon Lescott''s got a new car" was funny. He reminds me of a school kid who would next week bring a note in from his Mom saying he can't do games 'cos he's got a verucca.
As for Bacunna. This is the first game I've seen him involved in where he hasn't had that stupid grin. I hope I never see him in the shirt again. He's never been anywhere near good enough.
Kids didn't do games with veruccas because they are highly infectious. Kind of apt in Lescott's case...
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Hopefully we can find a Dutch side to take him off our hands in the summer.
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Bacuna is unfortunate with the timing of his champions league chat. He doesn't deserve to be singled out too much. At least he tries, unlike local boy Gabby.
Be honest, are you trying to get me banned from here?
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The only thing I was disappointed about was that Bacuna was the only one singled out. Why didn't Richards get pelters too after his tweet last week.
Hopefully the last 2 home games (with relegation confirmed) will just be constant booing of the cretins who deserve it.
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I'm clearly in the minority here but it seems that Bacuna's major failing in most people's eyes is that he's crap. If that's the case it's hardly grounds to boo him. He doesn't pick the team so if you're that pissed off he's playing boo the fella who's picked him.
I don't really get singling out individual Villa players. I have very rarely booed the Villa at all but when I have its been a collective booing - they're a team after all. Save individual abuse for opposition players. I just don't see what good it does to boo individual Villa players. You might think those players can't get any worse but imagine what seeing that does to the other players. It's hardly motivational.
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Oh I'd hate to think demotivated the poor love. Maybe he won't play very well anymore?
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Oh I'd hate to think demotivated the poor love. Maybe he won't play very well anymore?
Maybe re-read my post and have another go?
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Bacuna is ostentatiously crap, what with the Champions League comments and daft hair. Westwood is just as rubbish but doesn't stand out as much.
Also, Bacuna is often coming off the bench and thus the centre of attention. WestPoint (do you like his new nickname?) is always on the pitch (seriously, how crap does he have to be to get dropped?), so not as conspicuous
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Hopefully we can find a Dutch side to take him off our hands in the summer.
Maybe team up with Vlaar at AZ Alkmaar?
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What for? Booing that smug whopper Bacuna will make poor Ashley Westwood cry or demotivate Captain Fantastic? You've been watching this shite. They've had our support in numbers all season, but they've got nowhere left to hide now. It's not just Bacuna. The ****** list includes Gabby, Guzan, Richards and Lescott who all deserve individual treatment.
I found it cathartic today. I booed and turned the air blue. I felt very relaxed on the M6 and as a result I found I tailgated fewer people. It was truly liberating.
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Bacuna is unfortunate with the timing of his champions league chat. He doesn't deserve to be singled out too much. At least he tries, unlike local boy Gabby.
Be honest, are you trying to get me banned from here?
[/quote
Bacuna is unfortunate with the timing of his champions league chat. He doesn't deserve to be singled out too much. At least he tries, unlike local boy Gabby.
Be honest, are you trying to get me banned from here?
No. You have a point, maybe 'try' was too strong a word. But the guy has at least been on the pitch for us. Gabby, a local lad, through one thing or other hasnt been out there fighting to save his club. He more deserving of our ire than Bacuna. Bacuna is an okay player devoid of confidence. He has no leader on the pitch to guide him. This is where Gabby should have been, cajoling the players around him and generally giving a fuck. He's the one that needs booing. Bacuna made some stupid comments, but he is just one of a team of players that are going through the motions and I think singling him won't help anyone at this stage.
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I thought the booing for Bacuna was ridiculous personally. We boo him and we boo Delph. Who's done worse?
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Some ****** are big, some ****** are small. They're still ****** though regardless of the small differences.
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Bacuna is fucking hopeless. Shouldn't be anywhere near a football pitch
Champions league, he's having a laugh.
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Normally I'd condemn booing our players, but I'm afraid all bets are off with this fucking lot.
It's the only thing left, and it may actually benefit us if just one of the useless shites decides he can't hack it and will fuck off to the first club that offers.
Keep up the good work Ads.
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I thought the booing for Bacuna was ridiculous personally. We boo him and we boo Delph. Who's done worse?
Exactly, I love booing the Snake. Same for Downing and back in the day, Savage.
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He wasn't laughing today was he the wanker.
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The c*** list includes Gabby, Guzan, Richards and Lescott who all deserve individual treatment.
These lot are a a disgrace.
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Boo the fucking lot. They're morons.
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I've never booed one of my own before.
None of these are one of ours though, they're only pretending to be so they're fair game now. I wish Westwood would come out with some nonsense in the press. I'd enjoy making him cry.
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I think they are fair game for plenty of abuse, if they don't like it they can refuse to be picked and have wages docked.
Bacuna deserves everything he gets.
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Bacuna is nowhere near Richards in the wanker stakes for me, never mind some of the other tossers we've had over the years.
Agreed
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Leo, mate...your best (and possibly only) chance of playing in the Champs League is to buy Football Manager 2016, pick Barcelona to manage, then buy yourself and play in every game - be sure to ignore your assistant's advice about dropping Bacuna cause he's shit.
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Bacuna, Guzanm Flabby, Richards and Lescott have all had the opportunity to show that Aston Villa means something to them, they have all at some point rubbed the supporters noses in it, whether by press releases, twatter or at Wycombe, now is the time for Karma to raise it's ugly head and the supporters of Aston Villa can let it be heard exactly what we think of this classless bunch of leeches. Boo, Boo and more Booing between now and the end of the season, support the club, fuck the players.
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I may be wrong about this but didn't Okore say something similar early on this season? I don't remember him being booed every time he touched the ball afterwards.
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Clampy maybe it is because Okore does not go round with a grin on his face like a demented chimp every time he fails to do what he is being paid to do, i.e. play football.
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Do you think that the stupid grin of his is because he is in some sort of pain. It's very much a sort of cosmo smallpiece grin.
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I hate the thought of booing any Villa player and have honestly never done so. It pains me to say that this lot are different though. But I don't think that they give a damn if we boo them and why would they?? They don't care about the club and are not fans. The sooner we are shot of Bacuna and the rest the better
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I think making life as uncomfortable as possible for these clowns is doing the club a service.
It needs to be known that sitting here on a fat contract is not an option.
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I may be wrong about this but didn't Okore say something similar early on this season? I don't remember him being booed every time he touched the ball afterwards.
Yes but we were further away from doom at that point. He should be booed for being so daft as to not realise the way his comments would be interpreted at this stage.
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I may be wrong about this but didn't Okore say something similar early on this season? I don't remember him being booed every time he touched the ball afterwards.
Yes but we were further away from doom at that point. He should be booed for being so daft as to not realise the way his comments would be interpreted at this stage.
So it was ok to state you wanted champions League football 2 months ago? Maybe Bacuna should have spoken sooner.
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I would imagine constant chorus's of: You're shit and you know you are, would pretty well cover it. You get 'em all with that.
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Shining beacons of honesty, the pair of them.
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I may be wrong about this but didn't Okore say something similar early on this season? I don't remember him being booed every time he touched the ball afterwards.
Yes but we were further away from doom at that point. He should be booed for being so daft as to not realise the way his comments would be interpreted at this stage.
Okore is maybe better equipped to play in the Champions League.
Bacuna got booed as he sums up the mindset of the modern bang average professional.
To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
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Exactly my take on it, LeeB. I'm not for booing any player in a Villa shirt (nor opposition players for that matter: I've seen it be counter productive to the Villa cause on too many occasions), but this lot are the exception to the rule on so many levels. Make their working environment as uncomfortable and miserable as they've made the fan' leisure environment. If it has them on the phone to their agents agitating for a move sooner rather than later, it'll be a job well done.
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I may be wrong about this but didn't Okore say something similar early on this season? I don't remember him being booed every time he touched the ball afterwards.
Yes but we were further away from doom at that point. He should be booed for being so daft as to not realise the way his comments would be interpreted at this stage.
Okore is maybe better equipped to play in the Champions League.
Bacuna got booed as he sums up the mindset of the modern bang average professional.
To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
in no way, shape or form is okore equipped to play in the champions league
totally unable to read the game and imo vastly overated
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I really don't want to hear from any of our players in the press, these meaningless platitudes before getting stuffed every week annoy me.
Whatever crap they come out with bares little relation to the lack of any kind of application I see with my own eyes every week.
The 'distance run' statistic completely damns the team, they dont work as hard as the other teams so they are getting relegated.
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To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
A Dutch TV interviewer asked him if he would be interested in playing for Ajax or PSV if they wanted to sign him. He said yes. He hardly sent out a press release saying that he should be the next player that Barcelona bring in.
It's not like he's taking a dump in front of the Holte steps or burning Gordon Cowans.
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Exactly my take on it, LeeB. I'm not for booing any player in a Villa shirt (nor opposition players for that matter: I've seen it be counter productive to the Villa cause on too many occasions), but this lot are the exception to the rule on so many levels. Make their working environment as uncomfortable and miserable as they've made the fan' leisure environment. If it has them on the phone to their agents agitating for a move sooner rather than later, it'll be a job well done.
Exactly.
I've always had the same opinion. Never really booed anyone ( well maybe Alpay when he scored that goal) because of my concern of how it affects others in the team.
But now I think all bets are off although we can still support the guys who are putting a shift in.
Saturday will be fascinating. We're playing a so called "relegation certainty" at the start of the season who are comfortably safe.
And the players thought yesterday was bad! What's it going to be like if Bournmouth give us a footballing lesson??
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He avoids hard work far better than he avoids questions, it really wasn't a tough question to sidestep.
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I really don't want to hear from any of our players in the press, these meaningless platitudes before getting stuffed every week annoy me.
Whatever crap they come out with bares little relation to the lack of any kind of application I see with my own eyes every week.
The 'distance run' statistic completely damns the team, they dont work as hard as the other teams so they are getting relegated.
The general lack of professionalism that permeates through the squad is unparalleled imo. In most cases when a club is suffering like this you'd hear all manner of stories about senior pro's going off their tits and bust ups galore. The difference for us is that some clown made the worst perpetrators captains. You can't can't make up the story of our recent demise.
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He avoids hard work far better than he avoids questions, it really wasn't a tough question to sidestep.
It wasn't really a question that he needed to side-step.
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I may be wrong about this but didn't Okore say something similar early on this season? I don't remember him being booed every time he touched the ball afterwards.
Yes but we were further away from doom at that point. He should be booed for being so daft as to not realise the way his comments would be interpreted at this stage.
Okore is maybe better equipped to play in the Champions League.
Bacuna got booed as he sums up the mindset of the modern bang average professional.
To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
in no way, shape or form is okore equipped to play in the champions league
totally unable to read the game and imo vastly overated
To be fair to both of them, Alan Hutton has played in the Champions League so I doubt that gives them the impression it's way beyond their abilities.
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Okore has played Championship League football and was very impressive.
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Here's what he said Whatever way you look at it , it's deluded given he is shit
“Within two years now I try to make my next move. Where this is going to be, I don’t know at the moment, but I want to grow in two years,” Bacuna revealed to Netherlands broadcasters NOS.
“That does not necessarily have to be in England.
“Ajax or PSV? I think so. If you look at those clubs, they play Champions League football almost every year. If you do you get a chance, why not?”
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To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
A Dutch TV interviewer asked him if he would be interested in playing for Ajax or PSV if they wanted to sign him. He said yes. He hardly sent out a press release saying that he should be the next player that Barcelona bring in.
It's not like he's taking a dump in front of the Holte steps or burning Gordon Cowans.
Dutch TV interviewers clearly have a great sense of humour then.
He might not be taking a dump in front of the Holte End but in footballing terms he is.
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I may be wrong about this but didn't Okore say something similar early on this season? I don't remember him being booed every time he touched the ball afterwards.
Yes but we were further away from doom at that point. He should be booed for being so daft as to not realise the way his comments would be interpreted at this stage.
Okore is maybe better equipped to play in the Champions League.
Bacuna got booed as he sums up the mindset of the modern bang average professional.
To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
in no way, shape or form is okore equipped to play in the champions league
totally unable to read the game and imo vastly overated
To be fair to both of them, Alan Hutton has played in the Champions League so I doubt that gives them the impression it's way beyond their abilities.
Aly Cissokho was in the first eleven of a team that reached a Champions League semi-final.
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Here's what he said Whatever way you look at it , it's deluded given he is shit
“Within two years now I try to make my next move. Where this is going to be, I don’t know at the moment, but I want to grow in two years,” Bacuna revealed to Netherlands broadcasters NOS.
“That does not necessarily have to be in England.
“Ajax or PSV? I think so. If you look at those clubs, they play Champions League football almost every year. If you do you get a chance, why not?”
Deluded or not, he's giving the stock response to the question he's just been asked.
He's obviously not going to answer "you're joking aren't you? Why would they want to sign me, I'm rubbish".
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Here's what he said Whatever way you look at it , it's deluded given he is shit
“Within two years now I try to make my next move. Where this is going to be, I don’t know at the moment, but I want to grow in two years,” Bacuna revealed to Netherlands broadcasters NOS.
“That does not necessarily have to be in England.
“Ajax or PSV? I think so. If you look at those clubs, they play Champions League football almost every year. If you do you get a chance, why not?”
Deluded or not, he's giving the stock response to the question he's just been asked.
He's obviously not going to answer "you're joking aren't you? Why would they want to sign me, I'm rubbish".
Maybe, I'm not sure where I will be in two years as at the moment I am contracted to Aston Villa, I think that would have been a bit more respectful , rather than giving the impression he is the one in control not us
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Here's what he said Whatever way you look at it , it's deluded given he is shit
“Within two years now I try to make my next move. Where this is going to be, I don’t know at the moment, but I want to grow in two years,” Bacuna revealed to Netherlands broadcasters NOS.
“That does not necessarily have to be in England.
“Ajax or PSV? I think so. If you look at those clubs, they play Champions League football almost every year. If you do you get a chance, why not?”
Deluded or not, he's giving the stock response to the question he's just been asked.
He's obviously not going to answer "you're joking aren't you? Why would they want to sign me, I'm rubbish".
You're right of course. Would be funny if he did though.
" I feel that I'm limited in my ability as a footballer to reach such levels. Sadly I must continue to play FIFA 16 to fulfill my ambitions in the game"
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
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It's not like he's taken a dump on the Holte steps
Symbolically, that's exactly what he's done. I'm pleased that the fans have finally given up on feeling obliged to show blind loyalty to these aresholes. Bacuna is in no way the worst offender but is still a shyster of the highest order. I'm actually looking forward to the next few aways to give these fuckers a reminder that we pay their wages and they will listen to what we say, whether they like it or not. I hope they all take some real vitriol from people who have had enough. I see fans giving the players stick as a sort of mass Victim Statement.
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I'd like to know who thought it a good idea to bring him on yesterday anyway?. What a terrible decision.
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He avoids hard work far better than he avoids questions, it really wasn't a tough question to sidestep.
It wasn't really a question that he needed to side-step.
The club didn't need another player showing a lack of awareness, the fans are looking for targets, Bacuna painted one on his own forehead. The media training, or his understanding of it, is poor.
An entirely avoidable episode.
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He avoids hard work far better than he avoids questions, it really wasn't a tough question to sidestep.
It wasn't really a question that he needed to side-step.
The club didn't need another player showing a lack of awareness, the fans are looking for targets, Bacuna painted one on his own forehead. The media training, or his understanding of it, is poor.
An entirely avoidable episode.
Yes completely avoidable.
We're compiling an impressive list of avoidable episodes.
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I'd like to know who thought it a good idea to bring him on yesterday anyway?. What a terrible decision.
TSM3 I guess.
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To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
A Dutch TV interviewer asked him if he would be interested in playing for Ajax or PSV if they wanted to sign him. He said yes. He hardly sent out a press release saying that he should be the next player that Barcelona bring in.
It's not like he's taking a dump in front of the Holte steps or burning Gordon Cowans.
Exactly, but he's the current scapegoat isn't he though? He answered a question about where he sees his long term future, nothing more. It's just very strange that fans felt the need to dish out the same treatment as they did to an ex-player who said he wanted to stop with us twice and still fucked off.
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To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
A Dutch TV interviewer asked him if he would be interested in playing for Ajax or PSV if they wanted to sign him. He said yes. He hardly sent out a press release saying that he should be the next player that Barcelona bring in.
It's not like he's taking a dump in front of the Holte steps or burning Gordon Cowans.
Exactly, but he's the current scapegoat isn't he though? He answered a question about where he sees his long term future, nothing more. It's just very strange that fans felt the need to dish out the same treatment as they did to an ex-player who said he wanted to stop with us twice and still fucked off.
You make it sound as if the fans are somehow to blame here. As usual, Villa fans have been absolutely unbelievable this season. They've reached the end now though, in terms of blind support, and some of these players are going to feel the anger. Bacuna can fuck off he he can't take it.
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But Bacuna was dumb enough to come out with it when the fans need a lightening rod. The Board has changed so with Lerner not present it's hard to attack them, Garde has gone, step forward Leandro Bacuna.
Maybe Gabby made sure there were photos of him with the pipe to get out of any potential firing line for a while, just that the plan didn't quite work for Richards.
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To think that he feels he's good enough to play on the same stage as the Footballing elite is farcical. To state his desire after his performances in public is an insult to our club.
A Dutch TV interviewer asked him if he would be interested in playing for Ajax or PSV if they wanted to sign him. He said yes. He hardly sent out a press release saying that he should be the next player that Barcelona bring in.
It's not like he's taking a dump in front of the Holte steps or burning Gordon Cowans.
Exactly, but he's the current scapegoat isn't he though? He answered a question about where he sees his long term future, nothing more. It's just very strange that fans felt the need to dish out the same treatment as they did to an ex-player who said he wanted to stop with us twice and still fucked off.
You make it sound as if the fans are somehow to blame here. As usual, Villa fans have been absolutely unbelievable this season. They've reached the end now though, in terms of blind support, and some of these players are going to feel the anger. Bacuna can fuck off he he can't take it.
Not at all. Fans have every right to voice their opinion after the season we've had and you're right, the support has been phenomenal, especially on the road. They're all worthy of it though, not just one player who was a being honest in where he see's his future. Besides, he's played no worse than anyone else this season.
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Bacuna isn't getting stick from one comment. It's a combination of many things from seemingly finding the anger and discontent of his clubs fans somehow amusing, to posting a picture of himself sunbathing without a care in the world not long after another shower of shite performance he contributed to, to the champions league comment...but above all the biggest problem many of us have is having to to see this fucker in a Villa shirt, week after week, year after c**ting year, like some sort of nightmare you can't escape. He's a bloody awful player who is stealing a living from the club and doesn't even make an effort on the pitch anymore. He's certainly not seemed to make any effort on improving himself as a player. There's no inclination whatsoever that he's learnt anything about trying to improve his abilities as a fullback.
He should never, ever player for us again. That isn't fan over-reaciton. It's the McGrath honest truth. He's not good enough to play for this club, but the fact he is, so regularly is one contributing factor in a whole raft of factors that have lead to us being relegated.
The fact is it's not merely 7-8 players letting his down. It's almost the entire bloody squad. A mixture of players lacking the talent, or desire, or application, or in some cases all of the above.
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I think if he'd started he wouldn't have been booed It was the fact he was considered our best option when we were 0-4 down. It was sheer and utter frustration and with his " honest" comments he made himself an easy target.
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I think if he'd started he wouldn't have been booed It was the fact he was considered our best option when we were 0-4 down. It was sheer and utter frustration and with his " honest" comments he made himself an easy target.
In truth I'm surprised almost every player isn't getting booed.
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I think if he'd started he wouldn't have been booed It was the fact he was considered our best option when we were 0-4 down. It was sheer and utter frustration and with his " honest" comments he made himself an easy target.
In truth I'm surprised almost every player isn't getting booed.
[/quoteI think if he'd started he wouldn't have been booed It was the fact he was considered our best option when we were 0-4 down. It was sheer and utter frustration and with his " honest" comments he made himself an easy target.
In truth I'm surprised almost every player isn't getting booed.
There were a few renditions of you're not fit to wear the shirt, but Richards and Lescott were looking round wondering who it was aimed at.
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I'm surprised Richards didn't get a bit more stick yesterday after calling a fan a clown in the week and although he hasn't come out and said it, you can bet he's already got his agent putting his name around a few clubs for next season.
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We were only ever a stepping stone for Richards. He had his moves away from us the day he came. Thought he would be the new centre back sensation with the help of his little friend Timmy. Bacuna is just stupid, lazy, cowardly and puts his boots on the wrong feet. Richards is much worse, his agenda is Villa payback for not facilitating his plans. See above.
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I'm surprised Richards didn't get a bit more stick yesterday after calling a fan a clown in the week and although he hasn't come out and said it, you can bet he's already got his agent putting his name around a few clubs for next season.
Good luck with that
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I'm surprised Richards didn't get a bit more stick yesterday after calling a fan a clown in the week and although he hasn't come out and said it, you can bet he's already got his agent putting his name around a few clubs for next season.
Anything we get, in cash terms for him, is an absolute bonus. How he ever played for England is beyond me. I agree with you by the way. Such a poor player he has turned out to be. Dreadful representative of our football club.
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I hope Richards has talked himself into a move. If his agent can get that malingering wanker a new payday off the back of his lack of talent, he could sell ice to eskimos.
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I've said this before i'm sure but the first 6-7 games, I thought he was outstanding but the interest seemed to go when Sherwood went. Is it any wonder we let in goals when we have him and Hutton in the same defence?
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Here's what he said Whatever way you look at it , it's deluded given he is shit
“Within two years now I try to make my next move. Where this is going to be, I don’t know at the moment, but I want to grow in two years,” Bacuna revealed to Netherlands broadcasters NOS.
“That does not necessarily have to be in England.
“Ajax or PSV? I think so. If you look at those clubs, they play Champions League football almost every year. If you do you get a chance, why not?”
Deluded or not, he's giving the stock response to the question he's just been asked.
He's obviously not going to answer "you're joking aren't you? Why would they want to sign me, I'm rubbish".
"I'd love to play in the Champions League, who wouldn't? But at the moment all my attentions are on trying to stay in the Premier League with Aston Villa. I've grown up watching teams like Ajax play in the Champions League and sure that's where I want to be and there's time for me to develop. Maybe in a couple of years or so".
It's not too difficult for him to have said the same thing a little bit more sensibly and cleverly.
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He did say in two years time though. It's not as if he said he's out the door as soon as we're down. That's where the difference is for me.
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The difference is that he's not very good.
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There are plenty of players in claret and blue at the moment who are not very good footballers Bacuna being one of them and he deserves dogs abuse for not only being crap but also deluded, but the real hate should be reserved for two players, who not only sum up everything wrong with Aston Villa at the moment, also a sure reflection of what has been wrong for the last 5 years, but Professional Football in general, step forward Richards and Gabby. Hate and despise their attitude and the underhand way they go about their business.
If Lamberts boys Kulver whatever, Keane as well, were really bullies, my god do I wish they were here now, we saw nothing at that time of Gabby on the pitch, but we also did not have to look at the pricks face in the front of papers either.
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I've said this before i'm sure but the first 6-7 games, I thought he was outstanding but the interest seemed to go when Sherwood went. Is it any wonder we let in goals when we have him and Hutton in the same defence?
Richards you're talking about here, he's been rubbish since he joined. He's a, clumsy, slow, lazy, arrogant, conceited twat of the highest order; and needs to be got rid of as a number one priority.
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Bacuna, rubbish footballer. Bacuna, even worse self analyst.
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He deserves dogs abuse for not only being crap but also deluded
I'm sorry but I just don't get this. I'm sure that during your career you've come across people who don't think you're as good at your job as someone else is at theirs. I'm sure you don't think that. Does that make you deluded?
If they then think you're crap and deluded and decide to give you 'dogs abuse' is that going to make you any better at your job?! Is that going to make anyone around you any better at their job? Or is everyone just going to think that person's a twat?
If you really want to boo a player for not putting the effort in, being a twat off the pitch, whatever, so be it. But to boo a player because you don't think he's good enough - it's hardly his fault is it. He didn't force Villa to sign him, nor does he pick the team.
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He deserves dogs abuse for not only being crap but also deluded
I'm sorry but I just don't get this. I'm sure that during your career you've come across people who don't think you're as good at your job as someone else is at theirs. I'm sure you don't think that. Does that make you deluded?
If they then think you're crap and deluded and decide to give you 'dogs abuse' is that going to make you any better at your job?! Is that going to make anyone around you any better at their job? Or is everyone just going to think that person's a twat?
If you really want to boo a player for not putting the effort in, being a twat off the pitch, whatever, so be it. But to boo a player because you don't think he's good enough - it's hardly his fault is it. He didn't force Villa to sign him, nor does he pick the team.
I agree and why I would not boo Westwood , it is not his fault that he is not quite good enough. The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
Hairdo, Tatoos, Stupid Grin?
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
f
We've only got 7 games left
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He's a ponce who's half arsed attitude, laziness and stupid smirk would have been sorted out by a a proper captain who gave a shit. Can you imagine this knob waltzing around Villa Park, going through the motions in a team containing Houghton, Teale, Staunton, Rico. He'd have been pinned up the dressing room door and given a rude awakening. The kids a fucking fraud and deserves his abuse.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
I don't really care too much about booing them, they know what we think.
I'll stick with my recurring dream, where I push them off the top of the Rotunda to their deaths, one by one.
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That's my wet dream too.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Yes he is because Richards, Lescott and Gabby have not been booed every time they've touched the ball.
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Getting booed or not getting booed in my view is down to luck. McLeish got the Bolton treatment that would have been just as merited by Pubehead, Lambert, KMac, Sherwood and yes by my man Remi Garde. It was all the more poignant by Alex McLeish being the best bloke among the lot of them. The Villa fans are at the end of their tether, fuck with them at your peril.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
I don't really care too much about booing them, they know what we think.
I'll stick with my recurring dream, where I push them off the top of the Rotunda to their deaths, one by one.
Mine involves a mincer.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
I don't really care too much about booing them, they know what we think.
I'll stick with my recurring dream, where I push them off the top of the Rotunda to their deaths, one by one.
Mine involves a mincer.
Who?
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He's a ponce who's half arsed attitude, laziness and stupid smirk would have been sorted out by a a proper captain who gave a shit. Can you imagine this knob waltzing around Villa Park, going through the motions in a team containing Houghton, Teale, Staunton, Rico. He'd have been pinned up the dressing room door and given a rude awakening. The kids a fucking fraud and deserves his abuse.
Simple fact is that he has never been good enough for top flight football and is very lucky to have played the amount of games he has. When you couple that with his attitude it's not hard to see why he's not liked. Westwood also isn't good enough, but I don't think his attitude can be questioned and that is probably why every manager picks him. Westwood should have gone to a lower league side a while ago, where he would be an integral player at that level.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
I don't really care too much about booing them, they know what we think.
I'll stick with my recurring dream, where I push them off the top of the Rotunda to their deaths, one by one.
Might be a three man job when you come to Gabby's turn.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Yes he is because Richards, Lescott and Gabby have not been booed every time they've touched the ball.
That surprises me. Mind you I suppose part of the frustration yesterday was as much that, at 4-0 down the apparent answer to our problems was "Leandro Fucking Bacuna."
Gabby will (or should) get dogs abuse when he next appears.
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
I don't really care too much about booing them, they know what we think.
I'll stick with my recurring dream, where I push them off the top of the Rotunda to their deaths, one by one.
Mine involves a mincer.
yeah, we're talking about Bacuna!
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
I don't really care too much about booing them, they know what we think.
I'll stick with my recurring dream, where I push them off the top of the Rotunda to their deaths, one by one.
Mine involves a mincer.
Christopher Biggins?
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I think he must have been misquoted
championship league not champions league
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Article on Skysports where he telling everyone the players care, the final paragraph is;
"People might think as we players we don't care, but it's the most horrible thing for any player to go through. We just want to play for our own personal pride and the club's pride."
Didn't see it Saturday
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The difference is I think Westwood does try whereas Bacuna looks like he dosent give a fuck.
Which is fair enough, but then he's hardly the only one who gives that impression so I'm back to struggling to understand why he's singled out.
He's not really singled out though. Is he getting it any worse than Lescott, Gabby, Richards etc? So many wasters. We don't have a scapegoat. We have our squad.
Maybe fans should have a specific player singled out for abuse for each remaining game. Bournemouth could be Micah Richards day. We've got 90 minutes to get everything off our chest. Could be quite cathartic. And a real opportunity to let this dick know what people think of him.
I don't really care too much about booing them, they know what we think.
I'll stick with my recurring dream, where I push them off the top of the Rotunda to their deaths, one by one.
Mine involves a mincer.
Mine involves being sent to Leeds on loan. If Carlsberg did double whammies....
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Bacuna is average at best, I never did rate him, but other than Walsall whose going to come in for him??
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Have I missed the transfer news of him joining a Champions League club? Thinking surely this must be the case since he didn't feature at all in first friendly .......
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Barcelona set to swoop I'm told, with Messi + cash deal imminent.
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Have I missed the transfer news of him joining a Champions League club? Thinking surely this must be the case since he didn't feature at all in first friendly .......
Leo played for Curacao last month. Maybe he's been given extra time off like Brad, Sanchez and Clark
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Have I missed the transfer news of him joining a Champions League club? Thinking surely this must be the case since he didn't feature at all in first friendly .......
Leo played for Curacao last month. Maybe he's been given extra time off like Brad, Sanchez and Clark
he's back training. Maybe he had an injury or he's just bollocks as to why he didn't play.
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He's down on the squad list as a defender which to me is very worrying
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He's down on the squad list as a defender which to me is very worrying
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I really hope that what ever it takes that this bloke is not part of the team.
Please take your stupid hairdo riducolus tats and wanker smile somewhere else.
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I really hope that what ever it takes that this bloke is not part of the team.
Please take your stupid hairdo riducolus tats and wanker smile somewhere else.
I hope he get's back in the squad and has a good season personally.
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I imagine Juventus will want Bacuna to replace Pogba when he joins Man Utd.
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I imagine Juventus will want Bacuna to replace Pogba when he joins Man Utd.
It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
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I imagine Juventus will want Bacuna to replace Pogba when he joins Man Utd.
It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Lighten up a bit :)
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Also, you don't know that my comment was referring back to his "remark"... I could have been referring to his outstanding ability as a footballer... :)
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Also, you don't know that my comment was referring back to his "remark"... I could have been referring to his outstanding ability as a footballer... :)
I didn't see anything in your post about his ability as a footballer, so I guessed it was about his remark.
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It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Agree.
He was far from being our worse player.
One thing I noticed was, even with the crowd on his back, he never went missing from the games
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It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Agree.
He was far from being our worse player.
One thing I noticed was, even with the crowd on his back, he never went missing from the games
you are joking right? On quite a few occasions, he was clearly giving less than 100%
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It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Agree.
He was far from being our worse player.
One thing I noticed was, even with the crowd on his back, he never went missing from the games
never went missing?
did you watch the southampton game?
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It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Agree.
He was far from being our worse player.
One thing I noticed was, even with the crowd on his back, he never went missing from the games
you are joking right? On quite a few occasions, he was clearly giving less than 100%
Tell me the games he went missing from when his every touch was booed?
He should have gone off after his back pass!! vrs Southampton (?) just before h/t. It was horrendous, but could, and should, have been dealt with, but had Richards bothered to rush back to help Guzan and Lescott a goal would not have been scored. Baccuna took the full brunt of the crowds frustration where, imo, Richards was equally, if not more, culpable. But he was back, and booed even more, but still carried on.
I don't happen to buy into the 'not gIving 100%' club. Not good enough, certainly, though.
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I agree Nigel. I think he was constantly selected because he showed that he has great inner strength and was psychologically strong. He was always at the forefront of the team and tried to make things happen. Such was the season that just about everything that could go wrong did. First half an hour at Sunderland he, and us, were brilliant. Top class. Then we shipped goals and he played his part in the unbelievable third goal. Their hands and belief had been dragged out of them.
In that toxic last couple of months he maybe needed to be rested to protect himself from the baying crowd, but to his credit he didn't hide, he did try but suffered from a lack of confidence, a crowd always on his back, a lack of experience on the pitch to put an arm around him, and a situation off the pitch spiralling out of control. Add that to a dysfunctional dressing room and given his age it's little wonder Bacuna looked out of his depth and like a rabbit caught in the headlights.
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This happens a lot from May to August. Lots of fans tend to forget just how shit certain players are. Bacuna is a dreadful footballer woefully out of his depth in the PL and I can't see him being any better in the Championship either. We need to get rid of the rubbish that destroyed our PL status, and boy is he rubbish.
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This happens a lot from May to August. Lots of fans tend to forget just how shit certain players are. Bacuna is a dreadful footballer woefully out of his depth in the PL and I can't see him being any better in the Championship either. We need to get rid of the rubbish that destroyed our PL status, and boy is he rubbish.
Agreed 100% Absolute Garbage get rid
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It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Agree.
He was far from being our worse player.
One thing I noticed was, even with the crowd on his back, he never went missing from the games
you are joking right? On quite a few occasions, he was clearly giving less than 100%
Tell me the games he went missing from when his every touch was booed?
He should have gone off after his back pass!! vrs Southampton (?) just before h/t. It was horrendous, but could, and should, have been dealt with, but had Richards bothered to rush back to help Guzan and Lescott a goal would not have been scored. Baccuna took the full brunt of the crowds frustration where, imo, Richards was equally, if not more, culpable. But he was back, and booed even more, but still carried on.
I don't happen to buy into the 'not gIving 100%' club. Not good enough, certainly, though.
I cant name particular games but it was obvious to me that he wasn't giving 100% in certain games, and I am talking about before the booing started. A number of times when possession was lost, he didn't try 100% to get it back or chase back to try and stop the opposition attack.
And I'm not just singling out Bacuna either. I think it was true of a number of players, Hutton being another prime culprit.
In my mind, the booing started because fans could see that players weren't giving 100%, not the other way round
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This happens a lot from May to August. Lots of fans tend to forget just how shit certain players are. Bacuna is a dreadful footballer woefully out of his depth in the PL and I can't see him being any better in the Championship either. We need to get rid of the rubbish that destroyed our PL status, and boy is he rubbish.
that's a different point though. If a player isn't good enough, then fair enough, not his fault and then he shouldn't be selected in the team. But not giving 100% is inexcusable
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It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Agree.
He was far from being our worse player.
One thing I noticed was, even with the crowd on his back, he never went missing from the games
you are joking right? On quite a few occasions, he was clearly giving less than 100%
Tell me the games he went missing from when his every touch was booed?
He should have gone off after his back pass!! vrs Southampton (?) just before h/t. It was horrendous, but could, and should, have been dealt with, but had Richards bothered to rush back to help Guzan and Lescott a goal would not have been scored. Baccuna took the full brunt of the crowds frustration where, imo, Richards was equally, if not more, culpable. But he was back, and booed even more, but still carried on.
I don't happen to buy into the 'not gIving 100%' club. Not good enough, certainly, though.
I cant name particular games but it was obvious to me that he wasn't giving 100% in certain games, and I am talking about before the booing started. A number of times when possession was lost, he didn't try 100% to get it back or chase back to try and stop the opposition attack.
And I'm not just singling out Bacuna either. I think it was true of a number of players, Hutton being another prime culprit.
In my mind, the booing started because fans could see that players weren't giving 100%, not the other way round
Randomly you pick the prime example of a player I would have picked as never lacking in effort. Granted, I stopped watching most of our games at the very end but ive never noticed Hutton slacking
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Another point, does anyone else wonder why our PR was so shockingly bad last season? A well placed interview with someone like Matt Kendrick saying he was misinterpreted, poor translation, he signed a new deal because he loves the club and is priveleged to pay for Aston Villa etc would have nipped this in the bud early on. I think he made a silly remark off the cuff without thinking about it and was hung out to dry a bit.
Playing devils advocate, he is still young and could possibly develop under the right management. There is a degree of talent in there somewhere
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Bacuna doesn't deserve the fans ire for me. Misinterpreted in an article with probably a leading question that he seemingly answered honestly. I think the Birmingham Mail (surprise surprise) article made it seem like he had plans to jump ship as we were being relegated, whereas to me it sounded like "If someone like Ajax came in for you, would you move? Yeah I probably would".
Bacuna gets the anger that Richards, Lescott and Agbonlahor should have gotten. Guzan is another one who gets hatred for reasons I don't know yet.
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He was asked the same question just not as loaded as Tshibola in his recent interview. he was asked where he wanted to be in 5 years and he made it clear he wanted to progress and that Villa were the right club for him now. Bacuna just expanded that by saying he wanted Champions League football. When the interviewer happily led him down (or up) the garden path by mentioning Ajax et al he gave the journo a story and Bacuna a headache.
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It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Agree.
He was far from being our worse player.
One thing I noticed was, even with the crowd on his back, he never went missing from the games
you are joking right? On quite a few occasions, he was clearly giving less than 100%
Tell me the games he went missing from when his every touch was booed?
He should have gone off after his back pass!! vrs Southampton (?) just before h/t. It was horrendous, but could, and should, have been dealt with, but had Richards bothered to rush back to help Guzan and Lescott a goal would not have been scored. Baccuna took the full brunt of the crowds frustration where, imo, Richards was equally, if not more, culpable. But he was back, and booed even more, but still carried on.
I don't happen to buy into the 'not gIving 100%' club. Not good enough, certainly, though.
I cant name particular games but it was obvious to me that he wasn't giving 100% in certain games, and I am talking about before the booing started. A number of times when possession was lost, he didn't try 100% to get it back or chase back to try and stop the opposition attack.
And I'm not just singling out Bacuna either. I think it was true of a number of players, Hutton being another prime culprit.
In my mind, the booing started because fans could see that players weren't giving 100%, not the other way round
Randomly you pick the prime example of a player I would have picked as never lacking in effort. Granted, I stopped watching most of our games at the very end but ive never noticed Hutton slacking
I didn't pick Hutton randomly, I gave an example of a player who suffers with a similar lack of effort to Bacuna. Hutton is great going forward in terms of being very willing, puts in some tough, full bloodied challenges which the fans love of course. But you watch him when we lose possession. He doesn't exactly bust a gut to get back. You can see opposition players running past him so it's not just the player in possession who he doesn't chase
Bacuna is worse in lack of effort in my opinion, its not just tracking back that he doesn't do but there are also times when he doesn't compete for the ball (unlike Hutton), not just in tackles but if the ball is played into space in front of him and it becomes a 50/50 ball, he seems to give up too easily and doesn't advance towards the ball.
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Smiling when we got relegated at Old Trafford.. should of being fucked off that day.
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
was it Gabby in disguise?
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Smiling when we got relegated at Old Trafford.. should of being fucked off that day.
Often it can be a nervous reaction - I have seen people smile at a funeral
He is not the best and his cock up against Soton was very poor but I think he has got balls to be available to be played anywhere in a struggling team
As for useless
Free kick against Man City
Great breakaway goal versus Norwich
Killer pass for Cleverly to score against Everton
I think too much has gone with the fans for him to stay (In one game he was booed, went on a great run and was cheered, lost the ball and then booed again all at the same time) but certainly not the worst more a symptom rather than the disease of our season
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I imagine Juventus will want Bacuna to replace Pogba when he joins Man Utd.
It's amazing how an innocent remark that he made can cause so much fury, it's ridiculous.
Nothing to do with what he said, his attitude stinks and he should never play for the club again.
I would add Richards and Gabby to that list.
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For Bacuna you could say the same for many players regarding too much has happened for them to stay. But the reality is that it is a) Not really practical to lose a whole swathe of your squad when preparing for the next season; and b) Di Matteo and Clarke will no doubt look at some of those that have been mentioned as players one, or more would like to see going for various reasons (Guzan, Bunn, Hutton, Okore, Lescott, Richards, Cissokho, Veretout, Gana, Sanchez, Westwood, Bacuna, Gabby, Sinclair, Kozak, Gestede) but the stark reality is that the majority are still going to be with us when we kick off in 3 or so weeks time.
The job of those whose job it is is to work out what they can do with those that many want out and what they can bring in to improve us.
I think that we are genuinely a team that no-one can predict at the moment where we'll finish. We were shocking last season but that just wasn't a poor team just not being good enough. That was disparate factions looking like an under-prepared under 11s team that were aimless.
We need to draw a line somewhere and get on with it. Starting at hillsborough and get behind whoever Di Matteo sends out for the start of probably the most important season for us since 1971-72 or 1974-75.
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We need to draw a line somewhere and get on with it. Starting at hillsborough and get behind whoever Di Matteo sends out for the start of probably the most important season for us since 1971-72 or 1974-75.
Agree totally with that sentiment - the booing was cathartic at the end of last season - now we need to look to the future promotion of Aston Villa whoever is in the team - no more heroes anymore...
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The problem PW is that if things do go wrong early on the reaction against Bacuna Gabby and Richards Guzan ? will take us back to where we were last season.
It is such an important season we can not afford to take the risk.The situation could get toxic very quickly.
I think the other players you mention will get a fair chance.
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Bacuna doesn't deserve the fans ire for me.
He's just not good enough, so he felt the fans frustration. Harsh, but that's how it works.
Maybe the championship will be more his standard and he will look half-decent? Doubt it, though.
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When I saw this Bacuna thread on the top of the page for one minute I thought somebody might be buying him , Burnley or Hull maybe.
Bit disappointing now.
this player needs to go before the season starts , he was shocking last season.
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He's down on the squad list as a defender which to me is very worrying
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
Justice for the Bacuna 7
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The problem PW is that if things do go wrong early on the reaction against Bacuna Gabby and Richards Guzan ? will take us back to where we were last season.
It is such an important season we can not afford to take the risk.The situation could get toxic very quickly.
I think the other players you mention will get a fair chance.
I agree but if we perform like we did last season in our first 3 or so games then yes,it'll get toxic quickly. But if there are things to build on and we lose one, or even two, then it'll be disappointment but mixed with hope that we will add to the squad long before the toxicity returns.
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Bacuna doesn't deserve the fans ire for me.
He's just not good enough, so he felt the fans frustration. Harsh, but that's how it works.
Maybe the championship will be more his standard and he will look half-decent? Doubt it, though.
He didn't feel the fan's frustration because he wasn't good enough. NOT SURE IF YOU WENT TO GAMES LAST SEASON BUT THE ATMOSPHERE THROUGH THE LATTER GAMES WAS terrible. Bacumna copped a lot but it was because of the interview he gave not his performances. The fans weren't frustrated but angry and in an unforgiving mood.
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Bacuna doesn't deserve the fans ire for me.
He's just not good enough, so he felt the fans frustration. Harsh, but that's how it works.
Maybe the championship will be more his standard and he will look half-decent? Doubt it, though.
He didn't feel the fan's frustration because he wasn't good enough. NOT SURE IF YOU WENT TO GAMES LAST SEASON BUT THE ATMOSPHERE THROUGH THE LATTER GAMES WAS terrible. Bacumna copped a lot but it was because of the interview he gave not his performances. The fans weren't frustrated but angry and in an unforgiving mood.
And his laissez-faire behavior after each loss, laughing and smiling (and during mistakes).
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i doubt that he laughed and smiled after each loss and smiled during mistakes as a way of sticking to fingers up to the fans.
Rather than just use that as an excuse to attack him try and take a scientific approach as to why he may appear to be laughing or smiling:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/happiness-in-world/201101/why-we-laugh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudobulbar_affect
there is also something that we all do (I'm assuming) and that is nervous laughter. It is triggered by the need to self-reassure and not because you're laughing at the situation.
Bacuna is a young kid with a positive outlook dealing with a situation that he had not dealt with previously. i doubt that there was anyone at the club to help him and so he became more exposed to the fan's ire. That's why I, and some others, think it's to his credit that through the palpable feelings of isolation, the want for acceptance, the drive to be liked, the belief in himself, that he ended up looking like a grinning goon rather than a struggling professional footballer.
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I am sure if RDM picks him fans will give him a fair shake. But lets be fair to the fans here, this is a team (and the previous club management) that surrendered last season. Deciding they could live with relegation and saw no reason to actually try to change course. Bacuna was one of several players that A.) Gave appearances of not giving a damn about Villa on the pitch. B.) Did or said things off the pitch that reinforced that view.
I know its a cliche but if I did a crap job at work and then mentioned in a public interview that I would like to work at a bigger company then I would expect a bad reaction.
If he gets another chance by RDM then fine he will get support to prove himself. Villa fans are not a vindinctive lot, if anything we are over accepting of failure, but also Bacuna and several other players must recognise they carry the burden of last season by their own actions. Its them that need to change not the fans.
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Bacuna doesn't deserve the fans ire for me.
He's just not good enough, so he felt the fans frustration. Harsh, but that's how it works.
Maybe the championship will be more his standard and he will look half-decent? Doubt it, though.
He didn't feel the fan's frustration because he wasn't good enough. NOT SURE IF YOU WENT TO GAMES LAST SEASON BUT THE ATMOSPHERE THROUGH THE LATTER GAMES WAS terrible. Bacumna copped a lot but it was because of the interview he gave not his performances. The fans weren't frustrated but angry and in an unforgiving mood.
sorry, I don't agree with that. I was at the games. He didn't receive the abuse because of the interview, fans took the piss out of him for that
he, and some of the other players, received abuse because of their perceived lack of effort
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Bacuna doesn't deserve the fans ire for me.
He's just not good enough, so he felt the fans frustration. Harsh, but that's how it works.
Maybe the championship will be more his standard and he will look half-decent? Doubt it, though.
He didn't feel the fan's frustration because he wasn't good enough. NOT SURE IF YOU WENT TO GAMES LAST SEASON BUT THE ATMOSPHERE THROUGH THE LATTER GAMES WAS terrible. Bacumna copped a lot but it was because of the interview he gave not his performances. The fans weren't frustrated but angry and in an unforgiving mood.
sorry, I don't agree with that. I was at the games. He didn't receive the abuse because of the interview, fans took the piss out of him for that
he, and some of the other players, received abuse because of their perceived lack of effort
His first game after the interview he was booed first when he appeared (I think he was sub?).
And in response to ciggiebeers, didn't he actually say that he wanted to play in the Champions League before the interviewer said for someone like Ajax? Rather than him saying I want to play in the CL with Ajax? He was naive first and foremost.
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
You work in town as saw a bloke walking through New Street with his name on the back of a Villa shirt a few hours ago!
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Or lots of fat middle-aged blokes like Bacuna.
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Those who are seemingly willing to give Bacuna another chance; have you forgotten he 'offered out' a fan at Villa Park against Southampton at half time?
Irrespective of his 'Champions League quote' or his footballing ability, there is simply no coming back from that from a fans' perspective.
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Wow, forgiving crowd. I remember the lazy, can't be arsed attitude that he displayed in most matches and a great display against Palace, which made me think there was a good player there. If RDM can get him playing well then great, but if an offer did come in for him, I'd ship him out without hestitation. Champions League? 'avin a laugh.
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Those who are seemingly willing to give Bacuna another chance; have you forgotten he 'offered out' a fan at Villa Park against Southampton at half time?
Irrespective of his 'Champions League quote' or his footballing ability, there is simply no coming back from that from a fans' perspective.
I was about 2 metres from where it was. The bloke in question was shouting every foul expletive imaginable. Leo looked at him, gave him a 'come on' but carried on walking. Not a wise thing to do, I agree. Cantona would have kicked the chap into row Z, though.
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Those who are seemingly willing to give Bacuna another chance; have you forgotten he 'offered out' a fan at Villa Park against Southampton at half time?
Irrespective of his 'Champions League quote' or his footballing ability, there is simply no coming back from that from a fans' perspective.
I was about 2 metres from where it was. The bloke in question was shouting every foul expletive imaginable. Leo looked at him, gave him a 'come on' but carried on walking. Not a wise thing to do, I agree. Cantona would have kicked the chap into row Z, though.
I have a real problem with this from some fans. If you're big enough to call anyone the sort of things that get shouted at people in that situation then you have absolutely no grounds to be offended if they respond. Before anyone comes out with setting an example or any of that shit it's the responsibility of fans to act like decent people just as much as it is the players, pretty much every other sport has figured this bit of respect out but in football some see it as perfectly acceptable to act like an animal.
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Or lots of fat middle-aged blokes like Bacuna.
Unless it means bacon in some foreign tongue
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
Unless there were two wandering about today, I saw him as well... About 7 hours later!
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Bacuna's character is in question, the guy is gutless basically
Ability wise he should be a fine player, strong, quick, can deliver a cracking ball, set pieces
He had a handful of games for us where he looked a real player, away at Sunderland for starters
but too many times when up against he threw the towel in under Lambert, Sherwood and whoever else we have had in charge
Get rid
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
Unless there were two wandering about today, I saw him as well... About 7 hours later!
The plot thickens!
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So the reason for Bacuna, Guzan, Richards, Lescott etc... being so crap last season is due to us the crowd booing them! unbelievable, I don't remember anyone on here saying don't boo them, as it will hurt there feelings at the time.
I thought that professional footballers were meant to be made of a lot of resilience.
If as is claimed that these poor souls could not handle the atmosphere at Villa Park last season, then why have NONE of them asked for a transfer?, because playing for Villa is such a nice place to work, with little expectations from the fans or the club.
It will be interesting to see how many of the above & Gabby actually start games for us this season?
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No-one has mentioned, yet, LB's Gabby-like refusal to celebrate his goal v Stoke.
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
Unless there were two wandering about today, I saw him as well... About 7 hours later!
The plot thickens!
Gabby?
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A fat middle aged bloke who ought to know better than to wear a replica shirt was mooching around outside work earlier. Bacuna 7 emblazoned on the back.
You work in town as saw a bloke walking through New Street with his name on the back of a Villa shirt a few hours ago!
I do indeed. Not far from entrance to New Street opposite the Electric Cinema.
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Is Bacuna injured?
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Fully believes we'll be in the Champions League soon....
https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768
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Fully believes we'll be in the Champions League soon....
https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768
That's too funny, how wasted is he. 8)
*edit, he's driving so surely not?
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Fully believes we'll be in the Champions League soon....
https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768
That's too funny, how wasted is he. 8)
*edit, he's driving so surely not?
Pretty sure his G500 has the wheel on the left.
Nope on second look he's driving!!! :o
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Bacuna's character is in question, the guy is gutless basically
Ability wise he should be a fine player, strong, quick, can deliver a cracking ball, set pieces
He had a handful of games for us where he looked a real player, away at Sunderland for starters
but too many times when up against he threw the towel in under Lambert, Sherwood and whoever else we have had in charge
Get rid
I remember someone on here saying a while back that although he hadn't set the world alight, he very rarely had an absolute shocker playing full-back. I would agree with that and would suggest that he concentrates on playing that position. He's got the qualities to be a modern full-back and with a bit of work could do well there.
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Fully believes we'll be in the Champions League soon....
https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768
That's too funny, how wasted is he. 8)
*edit, he's driving so surely not?
Don't want to come across as a killjoy, but if I was RDM I wouldn't be too keen on seeing a player out at that time on a Saturday night with a game on Tuesday. In fact, I know a few lads who have played professionally and that was a no-no.
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After this, I'd say there's no chance of him playing Tuesday now. Stupid thing to do, especially these days with camera phones. Like word won't get back to RDM.
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He just looks happy to me, and there's no proof that he was drinking either. Let him enjoy himself for crying out loud.
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He just looks happy to me, and there's no proof that he was drinking either. Let him enjoy himself for crying out loud.
well said SH
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I agree. We just won our first game in bloody years. And as much as I don't really rate him or like him, he's put his head down ignored the abuse and got on with it.
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I don't have a problem if that's all it was. I just assumed he was pissed looking at the video.
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Apparently his wife's birthday. Driving, so hopefully not drinking. Sunday off. Cannot see too much of a problem, really.
And for all we know, he might even have asked RDM and been given permission.
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Apparently his wife's birthday. Driving, so hopefully not drinking. Sunday off. Cannot see too much of a problem, really.
And for all we know, he might even have asked RDM and been given permission.
Hi Eastie, good to have you back.
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Sorry. You're barking up the wrong tree.
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Sorry. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Fir enough
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What's wrong with that video?
I am far from his biggest fan but he's showing a bit of personality while mixing with fans. Good luck to him
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Sorry. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Fir enough
Just couldn't twig why, that's all. But we'd better leave it.
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Sorry. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Fir enough
Just couldn't twig why, that's all. But we'd better leave it.
Oakay.
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Sorry. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Fir enough
Just couldn't twig why, that's all. But we'd better leave it.
Oakay.
Yew just had to make another pun? I must have been barking to use that particular phrase in the first place.
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Sorry. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Fir enough
Just couldn't twig why, that's all. But we'd better leave it.
Oakay.
Yew just had to make another pun? I must have been barking to use that particular phrase in the first place.
Leaf it out you lot.
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Leaf it out you lot.
Well, punathons does seem rather poplar on here, after all.
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Sorry. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Fir enough
Just couldn't twig why, that's all. But we'd better leave it.
Oakay.
Yew just had to make another pun? I must have been barking to use that particular phrase in the first place.
Leaf it out you lot.
Come on Richard, we've pining for another punfest, but there seems to be a bit of needle in this one.
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I think a mod needs to put a stop to this before it blossoms out of control.
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Think he played well at Sheffield wed and was exceptional yesterday let him be unless you want a team of huttons and division 3
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Apparently his wife's birthday. Driving, so hopefully not drinking. Sunday off. Cannot see too much of a problem, really.
And for all we know, he might even have asked RDM and been given permission.
Might well be the case, but I just find it a bit surprising. As I said before, know a couple of pros and one who has played in the Championship. They would always be in on Sunday if they had played on a Saturday and got a game on a Tuesday.
Edit - would like to add that I'm not trying to find a way to have a go at Bacuna. He had a good game yesterday and if he can continue that kind of form it is time to let bygones be bygones.
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oops - wrong thread
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oops - wrong thread
You wont stop it, it's too deep rooted
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Oh, turns out it was the right thread, so as I was saying (and to make in exile's comment make sense).....
I'm absolutely sick o more punathons - really sapping my strength
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Acorn...y punfest in the offing.
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oops - wrong thread
You made a real ash of that , didn't yew.
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Footballer goes out after his team have lost a game and is castigated for having a social life.
Footballer goes out after his team have drawn a game and is castigated for having a social life.
Footballer goes out after his team have won a game and is castigated for having a social life.
Repeat to fade...
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oops - wrong thread
You made a real ash of that , didn't yew.
I certainly did - no joak
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oops - wrong thread
You made a real ash of that , didn't yew.
I certainly did - no joak
OK, you can put a cork in it now.
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oops - wrong thread
You made a real ash of that , didn't yew.
I certainly did - no joak
OK, you can put a cork in it now.
Whatever floats your boat.
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Might well be the case, but I just find it a bit surprising. As I said before, know a couple of pros and one who has played in the Championship. They would always be in on Sunday if they had played on a Saturday and got a game on a Tuesday.
Edit - would like to add that I'm not trying to find a way to have a go at Bacuna. He had a good game yesterday and if he can continue that kind of form it is time to let bygones be bygones.
Yes, no doubt that's the norm. But Villa hasn't been a 'normal' team for some time now. No league win for half a calendar year... I'm pretty sure I saw a RDM quote from after the match, stating that the players hadn't experienced a win for a long time, and needed to enjoy it before focusing on the next game. To me, that sounds like they might be given some time off.
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Whatever the circumstances, I was impressed to see that interacted with Villa fans while out, and burst into singing 'Villa till I die'.
Fair play to him.
As I said elsewhere, his redemption is nearly complete I reckon.
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Whatever the circumstances, I was impressed to see that interacted with Villa fans while out, and burst into singing 'Villa till I die'.
What surprised me most about his attitude last season was that somebody on here a good while back said he had been in his house and it's full of Villa stuff and he's supposedly become a bit of a Villa nut since he joined us.
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He just looks happy to me, and there's no proof that he was drinking either. Let him enjoy himself for crying out loud.
well said SH
I agree as well.
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Whatever the circumstances, I was impressed to see that interacted with Villa fans while out, and burst into singing 'Villa till I die'.
What surprised me most about his attitude last season was that somebody on here a good while back said he had been in his house and it's full of Villa stuff and he's supposedly become a bit of a Villa nut since he joined us.
I was the same when I worked for BT - my house was full of BT stationery and other bits and pieces.
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He had a very good game on Saturday. If he continues like that, I'm happy to have him here.
New season, fresh start. Just keep it up you smirking git.
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Will be a useful utility player from the bench. Nothing more. Done ok so far but I hope that De Laet comes in.
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Much better than Hutton going forward, defensively against better players he is hugely suspect.
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Much better than Hutton going forward, defensively against better players he is hugely suspect.
But then Hutton is pretty terrible defensively as well.
So we might as well have the one who is alright at something rather than the one who is no good at both parts.
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Much better than Hutton going forward, defensively against better players he is hugely suspect.
But then Hutton is pretty terrible defensively as well.
So we might as well have the one who is alright at something rather than the one who is no good at both parts.
Indeed, or buy someone who can do both, the good Dr is throwing the £££ around.
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I think Bacuna might be my favourite player at Villa. He takes stick for nothing reasons, like smiling/grinning; that Champions League interview was asking that if a Champions League club did come in for him, would he be interested - he said yes, as all footballers would. Yes he was a part of the team that was awful for a long time but for me he never hid away, didn't do an Okore and refuse to play, he's played wherever he's been asked to too.
Good luck to him, I hope his confidence comes back and he shows his best. Loved the vid of him singing.
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Aww, bless
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Much better than Hutton going forward, defensively against better players he is hugely suspect.
But then Hutton is pretty terrible defensively as well.
I agree. This is why I think we need a full-back signing.
So we might as well have the one who is alright at something rather than the one who is no good at both parts.
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He played well last night.
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I'm not a great fan but compared to Hutton and Richards he's doing a decent job at RB at the moment.
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Got a rousing cheer when his name was read out last night, Westwood got a muffled mumble...
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I went on to the Mail site (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leandro-bacuna-issues-message-aston-11780341) for the first time in months to share this. I feel a touch dirty but I won't make a habit of it.
Anyway, nice work Leandro.
Leandro Bacuna issues a message to the Aston Villa fans as he seeks redemption
22:30, 21 Aug 2016
By Gregg Evans
Bacuna determined to go from zero to hero this season
Leandro Bacuna is enjoying a new lease of life at Aston Villa as he strives to win back the trust of the claret and blue faithful.
Bacuna was booed towards the end of last season after a string of disappointing performances followed an interview where he claimed to want Champions League football within two years.
It wasn’t his most memorable period in the Midlands but after knuckling down to win back his starting place, fans have started to appreciate his efforts once again.
He was even filmed joining in with a Villa fan's chant as he drove through Birmingham recently.
“We want to show the fans that we are not playing for ourselves as people have said before and want to do the best for Aston Villa and make sure the fans have a good time and we can win games.” he said
“I think as a team we’re close, playing well and playing to win.”
Bacuna has four years remaining on his Villa Park deal and appears to be happy once again.
Boss Roberto Di Matteo is still searching for a new right-back but Bacuna’s versatility will make him a valuable asset in times ahead.
Asked what he thought of Villa’s start to the season, the 25-year-old said: “We are fighting hard and creating good chances.
“The luck was not on our side at Derby. We’ve been working on our shape first and trying to keep clean sheets.
“From there on we try to create chances and try to get wins. I think we’re playing very well.
“The only thing is that we need to get some wins and keep going higher up the table.”
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I think Bacuna might be my favourite player at Villa. He takes stick for nothing reasons, like smiling/grinning; that Champions League interview was asking that if a Champions League club did come in for him, would he be interested - he said yes, as all footballers would. Yes he was a part of the team that was awful for a long time but for me he never hid away, didn't do an Okore and refuse to play, he's played wherever he's been asked to too.
Good luck to him, I hope his confidence comes back and he shows his best. Loved the vid of him singing.
Link to him singing? Havent seen it.
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Smirker, sorry for the slow reply, here you go: It's on the Twitter feed of the chap who bumped into him.
https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768 (https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768)
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Smirker, sorry for the slow reply, here you go: It's on the Twitter feed of the chap who bumped into him.
https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768 (https://twitter.com/lukehughes97/status/764775952291360768)
No worries, thanks mate.
If Bacuna is willing to try hard I am willing to give him another chance. That video made me smile.
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It's encouraging that RDM and Dr X are looking to close a deal for a new RB this week because it's literally a flip of a coin to decide who is worse between Bacuna and Hutton...although it looks as though Bacuna is ahead of Hutton in the pecking order at the moment. Hopefully one of them will be sold before the end of the window once the new RB is at the club.
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It's encouraging that RDM and Dr X are looking to close a deal for a new RB this week because it's literally a flip of a coin to decide who is worse between Bacuna and Hutton...although it looks as though Bacuna is ahead of Hutton in the pecking order at the moment. Hopefully one of them will be sold before the end of the window once the new RB is at the club.
TBF, Bacuna did OK on Saturday.
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It's encouraging that RDM and Dr X are looking to close a deal for a new RB this week because it's literally a flip of a coin to decide who is worse between Bacuna and Hutton...although it looks as though Bacuna is ahead of Hutton in the pecking order at the moment. Hopefully one of them will be sold before the end of the window once the new RB is at the club.
TBF, Bacuna did OK on Saturday.
He has been OK generally so far. Good enough to cover a couple of positions.
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Playing ok is the minimum expected of any pro footballer, so bacuna's "ok" is nothing to get excited about. Fwiw he was the only player who didn't acknowledge or applaud the Villa fans around the players tunnel at the recent home games. Even Richards responded though he was looking over his shoulder back onto the pitch at the time which just about sums up his positional sense! I'm not convinced by bacuna and I'm really hoping for a new right back in this transfer window and enough right sided players to keep bacuna out of the team.
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I think he's done quite well since he's got back in. The defence overall is not giving too much away so I'd leave it like it is for now.
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I would be quite happy to see Hutton replaced.
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I actually think he's been pretty decent at right back. He gets forward plenty without being a liability at the back.
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I actually think he's been pretty decent at right back. He gets forward plenty without being a liability at the back.
Yeah, would go along with that. He's not been a liability whenever he's played at RB and if he was prepared to knuckle down and work at it, he could have the makings of a decent full-back.
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Still only 25. I thought he was much older than that.
Listed as 6 ft 2 in. I thought he was much shorter than that.
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I actually think he's been pretty decent at right back. He gets forward plenty without being a liability at the back.
All relative - no where near as utterly woeful as the dire Richards who must have the tiniest football brain ever. Or Cruncher Hutton who has been largely very crap.
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I wouldn't go far as to say he wasn't a liability...I distinctly remember a few times against Rotherham and Huddersfield where he has either given possession away or been so far out of position, that if we were playing against better opposition then we would have been punished. It's sloppy and careless mistakes like the ones Bacuna consistently makes that has got us in this position in the first place.
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I actually think he's been pretty decent at right back. He gets forward plenty without being a liability at the back.
All relative - no where near as utterly woeful as the dire Richards who must have the tiniest football brain ever. Or Cruncher Hutton who has been largely very crap.
It is relative, and yes he has been better than the other two which isn't saying much, but even judged entirely on his own merits, I think that his last two performances have been promising, and if continued would be good enough.
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I agree with Risso and if he can play in a settled position in a confident side we may see continued improvement.
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I'd like to see Bacuna and Amavi play wide midfield. I think they'll offer us more in terms of getting crosses in the box and provide better cover for the full backs.
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I think he's always tried reasonably hard, it's just that he's capable of extreme brainlessness, and in some instances, his decision-making is so bizarre that we'll look at it and think the only way a player could do such things is if he doesn't care.
He's been alright so far though, and he tends to produce somewhere between 1-3 moments of genuine quality per game.
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I'd like to see Bacuna and Amavi play wide midfield. I think they'll offer us more in terms of getting crosses in the box and provide better cover for the full backs.
So, we play two shit fullbacks (cos after those two, that's all we've got left) with less-shit fullbacks in front of them as cover, on the off-chance they can get the odd cross in? Seems like a massive waste of four shirts to me.
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Fun quiz! Who was the last team Leandro Bacuna scored against in a competitive game?
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Norwich after a sweeping move?
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Nope.
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Nope.
Got one at Stoke last season, didn't he? Before that, I think it might have been Leicester in the FA Cup.
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Wasn't it Wycombe away?
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He is still shit.
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Didn't he score for that national team he plays for?
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Paulie is correct (well, Leo scored two actually but you're on the right lines).
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As you all got bored...
It was the US Virgin Islands.
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Full marks for effort so far this season
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I'd like to see Bacuna and Amavi play wide midfield. I think they'll offer us more in terms of getting crosses in the box and provide better cover for the full backs.
Doubt McLeish would be as negative to play four full backs in the second division
Bacuna has been decent so far but has rocks for brains. Totally dominant in the first half, first time Russell got the ball in the second half he went straight through back of him and got a deserved yellow. Ayew had to bail him out for 10-15 mins after that.
Same for Cissokho, pulling Keogh for what should have been a stonewall peno late on. Not sure these lads have exorcised the last few seasons from their brains as of yet, more than a few of them still look like crumbling at the first sign of pressure. Elphick really stood for his defiance in the second half v Derby as he probably hasn't got the same mental scars.
Ideally the likes of Bacuna would be on the bench playing 20 odd games this season, with a better right back ahead of him. That better right back ain't Hutton or Richards though.
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I disagree with the stonewall penalty thing. No one on their team appealed and Keogh clearly gave him a 2 handed shove at the same time. Was a 50/50 for me.
I think Bacuna has done enough to deserve a chance to play at RB longer term but I still think we need another because Hutton and Richards are shit and should be out the door.
On the left I think Amavi will be fine and I can live with Cissokho as backup for now.
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I disagree with the stonewall penalty thing. No one on their team appealed and Keogh clearly gave him a 2 handed shove at the same time. Was a 50/50 for me.
I think Bacuna has done enough to deserve a chance to play at RB longer term but I still think we need another because Hutton and Richards are shit and should be out the door.
On the left I think Amavi will be fine and I can live with Cissokho as backup for now.
Agree
I sometimes wonder if RDM would play 3 centre backs and use Bacuna and Amavi as wing back/wide midfield
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As I said a while ago on some other thread, this is the first time we have seen our full backs playing with a properly functioning CB pair. They've effectively just had three clean sheets so I wouldn't be inclined to tinker.
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I have never been a Bacuna fan ....but all credit to him so far this season, its difficult to slate the guy ...lets hope it continues
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well done for eeerrr doing what we pay you to do and has made you a millionaire
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well done for eeerrr doing what we pay you to do and has made you a millionaire
You can say that about every player.
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And a fanzine editor.
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Well done Bacuna. He must have some backbone to move on from last season.
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It's a well known fact that we as humans are slow to praise but quick to anger so, if the lad has turned it round he will see that the Villa supporters will back him all the way. Well done Leandro, keep it up.
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well done for eeerrr doing what we pay you to do and has made you a millionaire
On that basis you could never praise any player
I've never understood the vitriol towards him. I just thought he wasn't good enough
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I think that he should be commended for sticking at it after the stick he has taken but I wouldn't go overboard about his performance today. It was okay but I find his lack of movement off the ball very annoying. He could be doing so much more.
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Looks good at this level. Westwood looks duff at any level.
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Bacuna played very well today, this is his best postion.
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I've always thought he looks best at right back, where he can just run up and down, accept there ball in front of him, and not have to play '360 degree football'
Encouraging he's looking good in midfield. Will take a lot for me to think he can do it in the premier but that's not a problem for today
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Playing Bacuna ahead of them to do the running is the only way that a midfield of Gardner and Jedi can work
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I still think he's best position is right back. The stick he got last season was fucking ridiculous.
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I still think he's best position is right back. The stick he got last season was fucking ridiculous.
Don't look back in anger. ;-)
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HITC (http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/02/26/do-aston-villas-steve-bruce-suggests-leonardo-bacuna-farce-is-no/)
However, Bruce hardly seems surprised by the whole affair.
“He’s overstepped the mark and done something stupid. Unfortunately that’s Leo,” the under-pressure Villa boss told the Birmingham Mail.
“With Leo it’s all about himself. He tests the manager every day, He’s always late. He’s in at 9.29am if we’re in at 9.30am. If it’s 1pm, he’s here at 12.59pm.
“Maybe it’s just his nature.”
Bacuna had started just half of Aston Villa’s Championship fixtures and, according to Bruce, would have been the first name on the team-sheet for the midweek clash with Bristol City.
Although with a potential four-match ban, not to mention a hefty internal fine, hanging over him, the versatile midfielder appears to have been shunted all the way back to square one.
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He is very punctual in that case😊
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How is someone late when they arrive before the appointed time?
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Either Bruce is getting very very confused with everything in life now or Bacuna is 23 hours and 59 minutes late.
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Maybe he means that's when he arrives but doesn't give himself enough time to tog-out and be on the training pitch for the appointed time so is late to join the other players.
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Maybe he means that's when he arrives but doesn't give himself enough time to tog-out and be on the training pitch for the appointed time so is late to join the other players.
That would be the crux of the matter, I would say.
What is interesting, to my mind anyway, is that plenty of posters were asking why the player was not being selected and if there was some kind of issue between the manager and himself, and now we know.
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Cock of the highest order, paid all that money and he gets to training a minute early.
The insolent toe rag was also asked to do 6km on the exercise bike this week, the lazy bastard only managed 6.5.
Fine him.
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How is someone late when they arrive before the appointed time?
That's the time they should be stripped and ready for training, not the time that they turn up at the ground. Managers and coached are funny like that. There are always players whop do it too just unbelievably shit at being able to be there at the appointed time.
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Ex ref Dermot Gallagher, just been on Sky, saying Bacuna's 'chest pump' on the linesman, could result in him getting an increased ban. Gallagher said it would be classed as an assault on an official. No sympathy with him at all, brainless action.
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Bacuna isn't and never has been dedicated to this club, we won't get anywhere with players like him in the squad. Gone in Summer please and replaced with a genuinely hardworking player who wants to do well and make a name with us.
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The longer we are without him the better.
Can't stand the player, offers nothing and takes the piss (especially last season) in my opinion
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I think I read somewhere that Bacuna was played in about seven different positions last season. Also one of his biggest crimes was saying,"yes" when a reported asked if he'd ever move to a Champions League club.
I don't get the hate for Bacuna. As far as I know he's never been drunk, passed out, started a fight with club officials, partied in Dubai after a loss, tweeted silliness, etc.
He's doing okay, why not get behind him - he might even get better.
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Agree, aj and exile, I can't stand him.
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I don't see how someone can be seen as committed and defended when during a very sticky patch, to put it lightly, a player turns up for training 1 minute before training is to start, repeatedly. That in my book is deliberately pushing the boundary. It's an obvious sign that he can't be arsed being here, doing the bare minimum expected to avoid punishment and play by the book.
You wonder why tiny clubs, with players you've never heard of, can compete and on more than a few occassions play and work us off the park? Well this is one of the reasons why. They want to be at their clubs, they train hard and work and play hard. We still have players who do the bare minimum, just to get by.
If we keep the Bacunas et al around then we will stay in the Championship for a long time.
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I think he gas given everything when selected this season. Remains the best crosser of the ball in the club. Plenty of others I would sling out first
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SportsMole (http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/aston-villa/news/bacuna-charged-with-violent-conduct_292708.html)
Aston Villa midfielder Leandro Bacuna charged with violent conduct
By Giuseppe Labellarte, Reporter
Filed: Monday, February 27, 2017 at 18:19 UK
Last Updated: Monday, February 27, 2017 at 18:22 UK
Aston Villa midfielder Leandro Bacuna has been charged with violent conduct by the Football Association following his dismissal against Derby County on Saturday.
The 25-year-old was shown a red card in the 94th minute of Villa's 1-0 win after appearing to chest-barge into an assistant referee in frustration.
It is alleged that Bacuna's behaviour constituted violent conduct in circumstances where the standard punishment of three matches that would otherwise apply is clearly insufficient.
The FA's claim that is the case is now set to be heard by an Independent Regulatory Commission, who could either reject it and keep the ban at three games, or increase the suspension by whatever number of matches it deems appropriate.
Bacuna, who has been with Villa since 2013 and has made 124 appearances for the club, has until 6pm on March 1 to respond to the charge.
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Bham Mail reporting that its a three game ban only.
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Bham Mail reporting that its a three game ban only.
It'll be more. As someone else has said, in the strict letter of the law he physically assaulted an official. They can't let him get away with a "normal" violent conduct ban.
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Bham Mail reporting that its a three game ban only.
It'll be more. As someone else has said, in the strict letter of the law he physically assaulted an official. They can't let him get away with a "normal" violent conduct ban.
Mail had a story earlier saying the ban had come through to Villa and it was three only, can't seem to find it now.
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Bham Mail reporting that its a three game ban only.
It'll be more. As someone else has said, in the strict letter of the law he physically assaulted an official. They can't let him get away with a "normal" violent conduct ban.
Correct, as reported in the Darbeh Telegrapgh:
A statement on the FA website, reads: "Aston Villa's Leandro Bacuna has been charged in relation to his 94th-minute dismissal in the match against Derby County on Saturday [25 February 2017].
"It is alleged that his behaviour constituted violent conduct in circumstances where the standard punishment of three matches that would otherwise apply is clearly insufficient.
"He has until 6pm on Wednesday, March 1, 2017 to respond to the charge."
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Link on the FA website:
http://www.thefa.com/news/2017/feb/27/leandro-bacuna-charged-270217
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Honestly don't know whether to think..." Thank goodness somebody in that team actually cares enough !! ".......OR......" What an idiot ! "
Currently leaning well towards the latter as we surely won't be able to mis-use him for the next 4 or even 5 matches. They'll definitely burn him for that headbut-looking-eyeballing-shove trick.
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He'll get hammered, the plum.
Not only have we been terminally shit at playing the game, we've also been relentlessly thick for far too long. I realise the two are not unrelated.
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Four game ban beckons. Silly boy! Bacuna is his own worst enemy.
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Silly and self-inflicted, but the linesman needs to go to specsavers! A shocking decision when the Derby player clearly got the last touch. Of course, he'll probably face no action for being incompetent.
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I can't blame him for losing his head in that instant however I do blame him for his earlier error that contributed to the sending off. If he had shown a little more composure and slotted in that chance Gary Gardner set up there would have been no tension left in the match and therefore no kerfuffle later on.
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I'd have let it ride for a round of fucks, but bumping him was well out of order, and monumentally stupid.
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From the linesman's point of view it's bad enough being verbally abused but, when that abuse becomes physical there can be no excuses. He doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. Bacuna deserves everything he gets.
Conversely, that full incident should become part of every referee's coaching course. It should be shown to candidates as to what can happen when you get the simple things wrong. I'd be surprised if that linesman isn't taken to one side and spoken to.
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From the linesman's point of view it's bad enough being verbally abused but, when that abuse becomes physical there can be no excuses. He doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. Bacuna deserves everything he gets.
Conversely, that full incident should become part of every referee's coaching course. It should be shown to candidates as to what can happen when you get the simple things wrong. I'd be surprised if that linesman isn't taken to one side and spoken to.
I think he will be made an example of and he cant really have any complaints. The lino is an incompetent twat though. Level of officiating in this league has been an eye opener - really appalling standards and a world away from the standard in the top division
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I'd rather he have been sent off for swearing at an official.
And it to happen repeatedly throughout the game until they learn to shut their traps. Violent conduct is a get out clause. Simplifies it too much.
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Four game ban beckons. Silly boy! Bacuna is his own worst enemy.
I'm going to guess at 5 or 6. They'll take a massively strong line on this I reckon.
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And so it should be a minimum of 6 games, absolute prat!
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Looks like three, but hey, he's a poor player and won't be missed.
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I think he will be made an example of and he cant really have any complaints. The lino is an incompetent twat though. Level of officiating in this league has been an eye opener - really appalling standards and a world away from the standard in the top division
Agree with all that, no problems at all if Bacuna is hit with 4/5 games.
There was an incident in the Derby game where the lino was directly in line with four offside Derby players and didn't flag. We have seen some really piss poor linesmen this year.
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Looks like three, but hey, he's a poor player and won't be missed.
He had a good game on Saturday.
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I keep reading on here that he had a good game on Saturday. I beg to differ. That's not my view, unless chasing shadows constitutes a good performance. He lacks ability with the ball at his feet, which you would think would be a minimum requirement even at this level. He frequently mistimes and misplaces his passes when eventually he does get the ball. One decent ball into the box for Green's header is not enough for 90 mins on the pitch for me.
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He played very well in the context of comparble midfielders for Villa this season. Tallest dwarf syndrome.
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I had quite an argument on the way out of the ground about Bacuna. He was a moralistic rugby fan from the West Country. I was keener on giving Bacuna only the shit he deserves rather than a 20 game ban as he was rattling on about.
We couldn't agree on defining hitting the linesman. If by hitting you mean they came into physical contact with one another then that is where he was. My view was that hitting is viewed differently in football and would imply Bacuna deliberately struck him. It wasn't a Di Nazio type situation after all.
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Looks like three, but hey, he's a poor player and won't be missed.
What a ridiculous comment.
We hardly have a deep squad and he was one of our better players on Saturday.
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I don't mind Bacuna, but he can't seem to keep his head or nail down a regular place. Useful player to have in the squad.
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I don't mind Bacuna, but he can't seem to keep his head or nail down a regular place. Useful player to have in the squad.
Probably the most unlucky one this season in not getting the chances others have. Has performed reasonably well at this level in a few positions. Though Bruce's comments post game indicate that he isn't the greatest pro off the pitch.
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He was brilliant for 30 minutes at Sunderland last season when we were well on top. For the next 60 he was shite though.
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FA statement: six game ban
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Bloody hell - that's harsh
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Maybe we should organise a collection for the linesman's family?
I assume Bacuna must have killed him to get that sort of ban.
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I take it that he'll still be cheerfully picking up his wages throughout the duration of his ban? No wonder he sports that stupid grin on his face.
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Maybe we should organise a collection for the linesman's family?
I assume Bacuna must have killed him to get that sort of ban.
Or at least bitten him.
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Maybe we should organise a collection for the linesman's family?
I assume Bacuna must have killed him to get that sort of ban.
You just can't touch officials, he was always going to cop for a huge ban. Can't say I have any sympathy whatsoever.
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He barely touched him.
If Rooney had done it, he wouldn't have been booked.
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Ridiculous. The more times I've seen it the more I actually don't think he even meant to bump into him, it was more his own momentum caused a little bumping together. While I agree he was an idiot, I wouldn't suggest what he did is much worse than what happens on every football pitch up and down the country every week.
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#prayforblindlinesman
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has to be shown as setting an example, to all footballers what ever age and at any level of the game, you just cannot do that to any referee / linesman etc...
For me he deserved it, because he is just a total prat for doing it. He should have been sent off for abusing the official like he did!
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How is it that Hope Akpan of Blackburn not even a month ago has his ban extended to 4 games from 3, whereas Bacuna's contact attracts an extra 3 game ban? Is Bacuna's any worse than Akpan's?
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/15093225.WATCH__Do_you_think_Blackburn_Rovers_midfielder_Hope_Akpan_deserved_red_card_/ (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/15093225.WATCH__Do_you_think_Blackburn_Rovers_midfielder_Hope_Akpan_deserved_red_card_/)
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I don't dispute that he should have been sent off. Six games is ridiculous. You can get less than that for a genuine headbutt or a leg-breaker.
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One of the bristol city coaching staff did the same to the 4th official in tuesday night.
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Deserves all he gets in my opinion, and whether some think it's harsh or not it was just a stupid thing to do. Bruce said after the game he'd be getting a hefty fine from him (is two weeks' wages the maximum??) but at a time when injuries are kicking in we just don't need the stupidity of Bacuna (and Grealish last month) stretching resources even thinner
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No sympathy whatsoever with him, every footballer knows you cannot make physical contact with the officials. He has let the club, Bruce, his team mates and the fans down badly. If we go on a good run now, he won't be able to get back in the team and may have even played his last game for us.
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I note with interest that the Small Heath veteran thug Robinson had his red card for rabbit punching a prone opponent rescinded.
To be fair though, I did say at the time in the Other Football thread that it was more like a love tap from a grizzly bear. The animal definitely bared his teeth, though.
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Having seen the incident and replayed it several times not surprised in the least that he has received this ban.
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Any word on the linesman's condition? I'm worried out of my mind, here.
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I'm certainly not condoning what Bacuna did - he was stupid in the extreme and deserved his ban, but 6 games? Where is the consistency if Akpan got an extra game ban and Bacuna got an extra 3 for basically the same thing? Just shows how shite the FA are.
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I genuinely think someone at the Football League/FA doesn't like us very much.
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I don't dispute that he should have been sent off. Six games is ridiculous. You can get less than that for a genuine headbutt or a leg-breaker.
Opinions and all that, but I predicted 5 or 6 games, and think it's fully deserved.
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It was utterly fucking stupid. I'm from a rugby background so tend to come from the angle that there should be FAR more respect for officials and punishments for this type of thing should be harsh. But the FA need to get a grip and have some consistency here. There is absolutely no justification for such a difference between the two bans. In fact I think Akpans actions are somewhat worse (albeit the ref made a massive meal of it and fair play for the lino not taking a dive in our game). They have set their precedent and it is unjust to hit us harder just because we are such a high profile club.
I hope we appeal and it gets reduced to 4 and the FA are made to look the incompetent twats they really are.
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I genuinely think someone at the Football League/FA doesn't like us very much.
It's hard not to arrive at this conclusion.
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I don't dispute that he should have been sent off. Six games is ridiculous. You can get less than that for a genuine headbutt or a leg-breaker.
Opinions and all that, but I predicted 5 or 6 games, and think it's fully deserved.
I agree Risso, but why the inconsistency when you look at the Akpan incident, where he pushes the ref in the chest, and yet he gets an extra game ban rather than 3?
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It was utterly fucking stupid. I'm from a rugby background so tend to come from the angle that there should be FAR more respect for officials and punishments for this type of thing should be harsh. But the FA need to get a grip and have some consistency here. There is absolutely no justification for such a difference between the two bans. In fact I think Akpans actions are somewhat worse (albeit the ref made a massive meal of it and fair play for the lino not taking a dive in our game). They have set their precedent and it is unjust to hit us harder just because we are such a high profile club.
I hope we appeal and it gets reduced to 4 and the FA are made to look the incompetent twats they really are.
The ref in the Akpan incident did make a bit of a meal of it, but at least it wasn't the full Alcock stagger, wobble, dramatic slow flop to the ground. I completely agree on the rest of your comments. I have no issue with Bacuna receiving extra punishment, it's just the sense of unfairness due to the lack of consistency. Didn't Wenger get 4 games for pushing an official? Why does Bacuna attract the extra 2?
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Yeah my issue here is that we've seen, for years, players pushing and pulling at refs and getting a 3-4 match ban so why is this one deemed so much worse, I can't help but think that somehow we're seen as a soft target, big enough to make people take notice but not one of the top 4-5 who'd get loads of coverage complaining about it.
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Aston Villa FC
✔
@AVFCOfficial
Steve Bruce: "Leandro overstepped the mark but I think six matches is harsh. We will have a look and decide if we're going to appeal it."
9:50 AM - 3 Mar 2017
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Yeah my issue here is that we've seen, for years, players pushing and pulling at refs and getting a 3-4 match ban so why is this one deemed so much worse, I can't help but think that somehow we're seen as a soft target, big enough to make people take notice but not one of the top 4-5 who'd get loads of coverage complaining about it.
I can't argue with that and it does seem inconsistent with some previous punishments.
But for me, it's about time it was clamped down on and I hope that any player from now on doing anything similar gets the same or worse than Bacuna. I have no sympathy for him at all. If you are aggressive to any authority figure, you should expect severe punishment. Do it to your boss, you get sacked. Do it to a copper, you get nicked. Football should be no different and 'ooh, it's just because I care' is not an excuse.
The behaviour of players and managers at the top level is directly to blame for this in my opinion, it sets the trend for lower level and amateur football.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39150413
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Shelvey got a shorter ban for racially abusing an opponent.
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Shelvey got a shorter ban for racially abusing an opponent.
and that says everything about the ruling body. Appalling.
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The lino said that Bacuna came at him hard like a berserk Barracuda with breast propellers.
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Subject to any appeal, which Bruce, Villa chief executive Keith Wyness and technical director Steve Round are now considering, Bacuna will also miss trips to Huddersfield Town and Wigan Athletic, as well as home games against Sheffield Wednesday, Norwich City and Queens Park Rangers.
"I've had a chat with Steve and Keith and we'll decide in the next few hours whether we're going to appeal," Bruce said. "I do believe when you put it into context with the guy at Blackburn, they were very similar incidents."
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Shelvey got a shorter ban for racially abusing an opponent.
that's modern football for ya
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Shelvey got a shorter ban for racially abusing an opponent.
You can't compare them though. The aggravating factor here was the involvement of the official. Start on the slippery slope that it's fair game to physically assault (and yes, I know this wasn't quite assault but you get my point) the officials and you completely undermine the sport at every level.
If he'd chest bumped another player he could've felt hard done to to have even been booked.
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It's not referee's actual decisions or the FA's in this case that upset fans, it's the inconsistency of the decisions.
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It's not referee's actual decisions or the FA's in this case that upset fans, it's the inconsistency of the decisions.
But how can you say this is inconsistent with the ban Shelvey got when they're incomparable?
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I'm certainly not condoning what Bacuna did - he was stupid in the extreme and deserved his ban, but 6 games? Where is the consistency if Akpan got an extra game ban and Bacuna got an extra 3 for basically the same thing? Just shows how shite the FA are.
There is no consistency in football. From administration to interpretation of the laws. I believe it doesn't exist. If there is any at all, it's the consistency that football continues to shoot itself in the foot.
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I'm certainly not condoning what Bacuna did - he was stupid in the extreme and deserved his ban, but 6 games? Where is the consistency if Akpan got an extra game ban and Bacuna got an extra 3 for basically the same thing? Just shows how shite the FA are.
There is no consistency in football. From administration to interpretation of the laws. I believe it doesn't exist. If there is any at all, it's the consistency that football continues to shoot itself in the foot.
The FA probably completely forgot there was an almost identical incident not more than 3 weeks ago for which a 4 game ban was imposed and just pulled the 6 game ban for Bacuna out of their arses. No wonder the government passed the "no confidence" motion on the FA (which is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, but that's a whole other debate!)
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Bacuna acted like a petulant prat and goodness knows what he thought he was going to gain by barging/rushing towards/shaping at the linesman (or whatever you want to call it). Those idiots clapping him after he'd been sent off were almost as equally idiotic.
Whilst a 3 or 4 game ban is probably more warranted, he can't have too many complaints with the league being more harsh than they could have been. This type of behaviour should be clamped down on at whatever level of football is being played and the fact that Bacuna is being used a deterrent case is simply unlucky for him.
You come into physical contact with an official and you deserve whatever you get.
It's a pity that he'll be paid while sitting on his arse for the next 6 games.
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Jonjo Shelvey banned for 5 games for racsim.
Bacuna banned for 6 games for an altercation with the assistant ref.
How do the FA explain that?
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It's not referee's actual decisions or the FA's in this case that upset fans, it's the inconsistency of the decisions.
But how can you say this is inconsistent with the ban Shelvey got when they're incomparable?
My comment was in general.
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Yeah my issue here is that we've seen, for years, players pushing and pulling at refs and getting a 3-4 match ban so why is this one deemed so much worse, I can't help but think that somehow we're seen as a soft target, big enough to make people take notice but not one of the top 4-5 who'd get loads of coverage complaining about it.
I can't argue with that and it does seem inconsistent with some previous punishments.
But for me, it's about time it was clamped down on and I hope that any player from now on doing anything similar gets the same or worse than Bacuna. I have no sympathy for him at all. If you are aggressive to any authority figure, you should expect severe punishment. Do it to your boss, you get sacked. Do it to a copper, you get nicked. Football should be no different and 'ooh, it's just because I care' is not an excuse.
The behaviour of players and managers at the top level is directly to blame for this in my opinion, it sets the trend for lower level and amateur football.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39150413
I sort of agree but clamping down on something shouldn't mean an arbitrary increase in the punishment for that type of offence in the middle of a season with no warning from the FA that it was coming.
Compare this to the rugby changes with high tackles, they made a very early announcement of what the changes were, why they being made and when they were going live. That removes any doubt from it. Events before and after that date which fit the criteria are incomparable in terms of punishments. Take that away and it feels more like the FA seeing an opportunity and the player being used as a patsy. No matter what you're opinion is on a suitable length of ban for what he did the clear precedence is 4 matches and there's no justification in the event for breaking from that. If we do appeal I find it hard to see how the length of the ban can be upheld given the Akpom one.
If it were down to me I'd put out an incredibly hardline process for this which would involve bans far longer than 6 weeks and be zero tolerance on any act of aggression towards any official.
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I'd send them to the sin bin for swearing and make them drink London tap water for poking or otherwise interfering with the officials. Chest bumping a defenseless lino would result in 96 hours of listening to Bono caterwauling.
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We can bemoan the inconsistencies of this ban from the Football League, but at the end of the day had Bacuna not acted the total dick this wouldn't even be a discussion.
I'd love to see his wages stopped for the duration of the ban but I bet that's not allowed.
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We can bemoan the inconsistencies of this ban from the Football League, but at the end of the day had Bacuna not acted the total dick this wouldn't even be a discussion.
True.
Just as, if the linesman (RIP) could spot a Derby player kicking the ball out from two yards away, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
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Seems excessive to me.
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I'd be tempted to go down the rugby disciplinary route as well. I'd shave Bacuna's eyebrows off, make him drink a pint of his own piss and then rub Deep Heat on his dicky di-do.
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Yeah my issue here is that we've seen, for years, players pushing and pulling at refs and getting a 3-4 match ban so why is this one deemed so much worse, I can't help but think that somehow we're seen as a soft target, big enough to make people take notice but not one of the top 4-5 who'd get loads of coverage complaining about it.
I can't argue with that and it does seem inconsistent with some previous punishments.
But for me, it's about time it was clamped down on and I hope that any player from now on doing anything similar gets the same or worse than Bacuna. I have no sympathy for him at all. If you are aggressive to any authority figure, you should expect severe punishment. Do it to your boss, you get sacked. Do it to a copper, you get nicked. Football should be no different and 'ooh, it's just because I care' is not an excuse.
The behaviour of players and managers at the top level is directly to blame for this in my opinion, it sets the trend for lower level and amateur football.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39150413
Compare this to the rugby changes with high tackles... That removes any doubt from it.
If you're going to pick an example of removing doubt, don't use the high tackle rule change!!! When a coach says its sheer luck whether you get sent off or not you know the rule's not exactly watertight - http://www.rugbyworld.com/tournaments/aviva-premiership/75731-75731.
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
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Jonjo Shelvey banned for 5 games for racsim.
Bacuna banned for 6 games for an altercation with the assistant ref.
How do the FA explain that?
Looking at it another way:
Verbal assault = 5 game ban
Physical assualt = 6 game ban
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Can we appeal to have the ban extended?
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
There's no way this should be on the linesman. Decision aside, he handled himself fine.
The inconsistency in the punishment is the only thing at issue here. That Bacuna deserved one is absolutely not in doubt.
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Jonjo Shelvey banned for 5 games for racsim.
Bacuna banned for 6 games for an altercation with the assistant ref.
How do the FA explain that?
Looking at it another way:
Verbal assault = 5 game ban
Physical assualt = 6 game ban
Valid point. Racism though, I'd be giving six month bans.
It just proves that the disciplinary body is not fit for purpose.
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As soon as he did it I was surprised the ref didn't have the red out of his pocket but maybe he didn't see it. It was a moronic thing to do, heard on the radio this morning that there is a planned strike of amateur referees this weekend to highlight the verbal and physical abuse they are subjected to week in, week out. A six game ban is a decent message to send out.
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As soon as he did it I was surprised the ref didn't have the red out of his pocket but maybe he didn't see it. It was a moronic thing to do, heard on the radio this morning that there is a planned strike of amateur referees this weekend to highlight the verbal and physical abuse they are subjected to week in, week out. A six game ban is a decent message to send out.
My sentiments entirely
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
There's no way this should be on the linesman. Decision aside, he handled himself fine.
This is true. Bacuna's head touched the linesman's face, if it had been a player it's likely they would have gone down and rolled around clutching their head.
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
There's no way this should be on the linesman. Decision aside, he handled himself fine.
It's absolutely on him. He made the initial bad call that had half the ground in uproar, not just Bacuna. He then compounded the error when the ref came over.
The ref had seemingly seen nothing untoward and was uncertain enough to ask the linesman. That was his opportunity when asked what occurred to come out of the thing with a bit of credibility. "A spirited exchange of views," or words to that effect and the whole thing is forgotten.
Instead Bacuna is now Di Canio incarnate, going by the (over) reaction of some here and in the press.
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
There's no way this should be on the linesman. Decision aside, he handled himself fine.
It's absolutely on him. He made the initial bad call that had half the ground in uproar, not just Bacuna. He then compounded the error when the ref came over.
The ref had seemingly seen nothing untoward and was uncertain enough to ask the linesman. That was his opportunity when asked what occurred to come out of the thing with a bit of credibility. "A spirited exchange of views," or words to that effect and the whole thing is forgotten.
Instead Bacuna is now Di Canio incarnate, going by the (over) reaction by some here and in the press.
Absolute shite. A poor decision is no excuse to act the way Bacuna did. Even if the lino had washed over it they would have done him retrospectively.
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Just because the ref didn't see clearly what had happened doesn't change anything. It's one of the reasons they are there, to let the ref know what they saw that he didn't see clearly. The lino made a shit decision on the throw in, it doesn't excuse Bacuna acting like a dick. I like Bacuna but he acted like a dick and has been busted for it.
I have very little doubt that if we'd been 1 down and it was their player behaving as Bacuna did we'd be absolutely livid if the lino said nothing and the player stayed on.
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
There's no way this should be on the linesman. Decision aside, he handled himself fine.
It's absolutely on him. He made the initial bad call that had half the ground in uproar, not just Bacuna. He then compounded the error when the ref came over.
The ref had seemingly seen nothing untoward and was uncertain enough to ask the linesman. That was his opportunity when asked what occurred to come out of the thing with a bit of credibility. "A spirited exchange of views," or words to that effect and the whole thing is forgotten.
Instead Bacuna is now Di Canio incarnate, going by the (over) reaction by some here and in the press.
Absolute shite. A poor decision is no excuse to act the way Bacuna did. Even if the lino had washed over it they would have done him retrospectively.
^^ overreaction.
That sort of po faced moralising would be more suited to lawn bowls. Most games where the stakes were as high as they were on Saturday have the potential to boil over at some point.
You hope in that situation for competent officials, or at least people that can take the heat out of a situation. We got neither on Sat.
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The trouble is as soon as you say it's acceptable for a professional to get carried away in the heat of the moment you open the door to a Sunday morning amateur doing the same thing. Except I bet it's a lot more scary to your average Sunday morning ref.
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Instead Bacuna is now Di Canio incarnate, going by the (over) reaction of some here and in the press.
I'm amazed anybody is attempting to defend or justify what Bacuna did, it's hardly an 'over reaction'. It was moronic and totally unnecessary. The linesman got a throw in decision it wrong, that's all
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Two points:
1. If the lino hadn't made such a blatantly appalling decision in the first place, it would never have happened.
2. I just saw Bacuna getting fairly understandably furious at said decision and moving towards the lino to vent his frustration.
3. I didn't see Bacuna move towards the lino with intention of making physical contact with him; his momentum moved him to within 'bumping' distance.
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I was sat at the other side of the ground and saw Bacuna aggressively move towards the linesman. Might have been his 'momentum' that caused him to make contact but perhaps he should use that 'momentum' to better effect in other areas of his game. Still, he got a standing ovation for showing some PASSION.
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I used to play for a Sunday team and once the lino attacked our manager with his flag, jumped over a hedge and legged it through a field. So it works both ways.
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
There's no way this should be on the linesman. Decision aside, he handled himself fine.
This is true. Bacuna's head touched the linesman's face, if it had been a player it's likely they would have gone down and rolled around clutching their head.
No it didn't, it was chest against chest.
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If this was such a clear, blatant act of thuggery by Bacuna why did the ref need to ask the linesman exactly what had happened?
If he'd cleaned him out so brutally as to warrant a six game ban, surely it would have been obvious to everyone in the ground.
Human nature took over on this one, but more from the linesman than Bacuna. He probably knew as soon as Bacuna reacted the way he did that he'd got the initial decision wrong. But rather than face up to that, when the ref asked him what had occurred, he looked to switch the focus from his crap decision making.
"The big man hit me!" with bottom lip quivering. Total clart. He could have diffused the whole thing there and then.
There's no way this should be on the linesman. Decision aside, he handled himself fine.
It's absolutely on him. He made the initial bad call that had half the ground in uproar, not just Bacuna. He then compounded the error when the ref came over.
The ref had seemingly seen nothing untoward and was uncertain enough to ask the linesman. That was his opportunity when asked what occurred to come out of the thing with a bit of credibility. "A spirited exchange of views," or words to that effect and the whole thing is forgotten.
Instead Bacuna is now Di Canio incarnate, going by the (over) reaction of some here and in the press.
The linesman didn't make the initial bad call though did he? Bacuna did that because he didn't clear the ball properly, he knew that & that frustration coupled with the linesman getting wrong is why he lost the plot....6 games isn't unreasonable although it is inconsistent with the Akpom ban.
Can't be compared to Shelvey because to football racism is something to be disregarded, a minor inconvenience & a t-shirt a couple of times a season...
I was glad Bacuna was sent off because he deserved it but would have been equally happy had the same ref booked Will Hughes for his constant ranting about every decision.
And anyone who applauded him off for letting down his team mates....that just beggared belief
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I thought the initial red card must have been for what he said to the linesman. Figured it must have been some verbal spray to get an instant dismissal.
Having seen the incident a few times from different angles and I am still unconvinced that he intended to make any sort of deliberate contact.
You're on a sticky wicket with any sort of dissent these days, but a more fitting punishment would have been a yellow and a substantial bollocking from Bruce. But he'll have to watch our games now for a bit, so that should be punishment enough. Even the Great Train robbers didn't suffer that sort of retribution.
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I used to play for a Sunday team and once the lino attacked our manager with his flag, jumped over a hedge and legged it through a field. So it works both ways.
That would have been fine too.
Or:
Ref: What happened?
Linesman: Bacuna told me I was rubbish at my job. I told him he's not very good at his.
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Three points:
1. If the lino hadn't made such a brazenly appalling decision in the first place we wouldn't be having this conversation.
2. From my point of view Bacuna had a bit of a paddy-wack in the face of said appalling decision.
3. Bacuna didn't exactly rush over in order to make physical contact with said lino; he moved over and his volition carried him forward to make some kind of contact, more like a slight bump than a full-on assault.
A big fuss out of very little when a firm hand from the ref might have settled everyone down. At most a yellow for me.
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Unless you've ever been a referee, and I'm speaking purely in a football context and not everyday life, it is very difficult to understand how tedious it becomes being abused and insulted on a regular basis. You're expected to stand there and take it and say nothing and then, when you do use the means at your disposal to take action you receive more abuse and total over-reaction. I'm speaking as a very experienced ex-referee and one with a particularly thick skin so I could handle it, others couldn't/can't.
There comes a time when enough is enough and it may just be the unfortunate player who, in the overall scheme of things has committed the most minor of infractions and becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back. Without going over old ground, when it goes as far as having your windows put through by a disgruntled player something has to be done. I know if a player had done to me what Bacuna did to that linesman, then his feet wouldn't have touched, metaphorically speaking. Notwithstanding the incorrect decision made by said linesman. We all make mistakes, the referee on Tuesday didn't fuck Kodija out of it for missing the penalty, and that could have had the same or similar outcome on the match as the Bacuna incident. Bacuna deserves everything he has received.
I love the Villa as much as we all do but I like to think I'm fair-minded when incidents of this or similar nature occur. Bacuna let himself, the club and us down on Tuesday and no amount of abuse towards the officials is going to change that.
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One thing's for sure, the fact that it was preceded by a bad decision has to be irrlevant. Otherwise we're in a moral quagmire.
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Appreciate all your views. Just think it's a mountain out of a molehill that's all. And the whole consistency thing raises its head again. A good debate nevertheless.
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Very interesting to hear a ref's perspective on it Dave so thanks for that. I must admit my initial reaction on seeing the close up footage was that it was no big deal.
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Shit decisions happen all the time but most of the time players manage not to get themselves sent off. Derby should have had a pen and if one of their players had reacted over that as Bauna did we'd be livid if he hadn't been sent off.
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The consistency thing is where we have every right to be pissed off with the length of the ban.
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We all make mistakes, the referee on Tuesday didn't fuck Kodija out of it for missing the penalty, and that could have had the same or similar outcome on the match as the Bacuna incident.
Would have been extremely weird and out of place if he had.
The penalty decision was dubious, could have gone either way. So justice was probably done when Kodjia missed it.
The incorrect throw wasn't dubious, or a 50/50 either way. It was just an out and out rank bad call. Bacuna gets a punishment more befitting of a Shelvey or Barton-like thug. Paul Davis got something like an 8 game ban for breaking Glen Cockerill's jaw back in the late 80s. What Bacuna did (or didn't do) is nowhere near that ballpark, yet he gets a similar chastisement.
The linesman seemingly gets no official sanctioning for his brain fart. We all make mistakes -but only the players should be punished? Is that the take home message?
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We all make mistakes, the referee on Tuesday didn't fuck Kodija out of it for missing the penalty, and that could have had the same or similar outcome on the match as the Bacuna incident.
Would have been extremely weird and out of place if he had.
The penalty decision was dubious, could have gone either way. So justice was probably done when Kodjia missed it.
The incorrect throw wasn't dubious, or a 50/50 either way. It was just an out and out rank bad call. Bacuna gets a punishment more befitting of a Shelvey or Barton-like thug. Paul Davis got something like an 8 game ban for breaking Glen Cockerill's jaw back in the late 80s. What Bacuna did (or didn't do) is nowhere near that ballpark, yet he gets a similar chastisement.
The linesman seemingly gets no official sanctioning for his brain fart. We all make mistakes -but only the players should be punished? Is that the take home message?
Unless you're privvy to the workings of the Referees and Linesmens management organisation you can't say that. My guess is that he will most certainly have been taken aside and have it pointed out to him that particular flashpoint and its consequences. I can't say for definite but it's almost certain it will not have been ignored.
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I've got no issues with the ban. Any physical contact with an official in an aggressive manner is totally unacceptable and should be made an example of.
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I don't think it was that big a deqal and has been made out as far worse than it was. However it's definitely a red card because making contact with the ref or assistant has to be a zero tolerance thing if they want to fix the relationship between players and the refs which has been fundamentally broken for years. My issue is that I don't see how it warranted a 50% increase on the ban that Akpom got for a comparable offence.
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I think it deserved more than the usual 3-game ban, it showed a complete lack of respect for the linesman and although some passion is good it was an OTT reaction from Bacuna. Don't think pointing out that the decision was wrong justifies the reaction. 4 or 5 games would be fair in my view, so I'd consider it slightly harsh but if that's the route they've gone down so be it. The guy who pushed the ref got off lightly only getting 1 game added to the usual ban, so there is a lack of consistency there though.
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If you're going to pick an example of removing doubt, don't use the high tackle rule change!!! When a coach says its sheer luck whether you get sent off or not you know the rule's not exactly watertight - http://www.rugbyworld.com/tournaments/aviva-premiership/75731-75731.
If you didn't change rules because a bellend like Cockerill doesn't understand them nothing would ever change. He was under pressure (and got sacked not long after) and was just spouting shit. Some people got concerned that there'd be a huge increase in bookings because of it but it hasn't happened because that concern caused most teams to focus on tackling alittle lower as a core skill in training and the objective of the rule change was met with barely a ripple. In all honesty there have probably been 2-3 yellows up to reds in total across the top leagues in Europe, that's as good a rule transition as you'll see and a bullshit interview from a wanker a few weeks before it was implemented isn't going to change my mind.
In case anyone's missed it, Cockerill is a complete twat who spent years talking about unfair treatment from refs every few weeks because they dared give penalties against cynical play from his team.
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The linesman seemingly gets no official sanctioning for his brain fart. We all make mistakes -but only the players should be punished? Is that the take home message?
Not at all no. There's a difference between a mistake and violence or intimidation towards someone. If Bacuna for example had failed to make a clearance or a tackle, that's a mistake in the same way as the linesman's decision was. Violent conduct isn't a mistake, it's an offence.
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Unless you've ever been a referee, and I'm speaking purely in a football context and not everyday life, it is very difficult to understand how tedious it becomes being abused and insulted on a regular basis. You're expected to stand there and take it and say nothing and then, when you do use the means at your disposal to take action you receive more abuse and total over-reaction. I'm speaking as a very experienced ex-referee and one with a particularly thick skin so I could handle it, others couldn't/can't.
There comes a time when enough is enough and it may just be the unfortunate player who, in the overall scheme of things has committed the most minor of infractions and becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back. Without going over old ground, when it goes as far as having your windows put through by a disgruntled player something has to be done. I know if a player had done to me what Bacuna did to that linesman, then his feet wouldn't have touched, metaphorically speaking. Notwithstanding the incorrect decision made by said linesman. We all make mistakes, the referee on Tuesday didn't fuck Kodija out of it for missing the penalty, and that could have had the same or similar outcome on the match as the Bacuna incident. Bacuna deserves everything he has received.
I love the Villa as much as we all do but I like to think I'm fair-minded when incidents of this or similar nature occur. Bacuna let himself, the club and us down on Tuesday and no amount of abuse towards the officials is going to change that.
As a young referee, I would feel let-down if the FA didn't use this to make a stand against abusing refs.
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I think an extra 3 games is a bit excessive.
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Unless you've ever been a referee, and I'm speaking purely in a football context and not everyday life, it is very difficult to understand how tedious it becomes being abused and insulted on a regular basis. You're expected to stand there and take it and say nothing and then, when you do use the means at your disposal to take action you receive more abuse and total over-reaction. I'm speaking as a very experienced ex-referee and one with a particularly thick skin so I could handle it, others couldn't/can't.
There comes a time when enough is enough and it may just be the unfortunate player who, in the overall scheme of things has committed the most minor of infractions and becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back. Without going over old ground, when it goes as far as having your windows put through by a disgruntled player something has to be done. I know if a player had done to me what Bacuna did to that linesman, then his feet wouldn't have touched, metaphorically speaking. Notwithstanding the incorrect decision made by said linesman. We all make mistakes, the referee on Tuesday didn't fuck Kodija out of it for missing the penalty, and that could have had the same or similar outcome on the match as the Bacuna incident. Bacuna deserves everything he has received.
I love the Villa as much as we all do but I like to think I'm fair-minded when incidents of this or similar nature occur. Bacuna let himself, the club and us down on Tuesday and no amount of abuse towards the officials is going to change that.
As a young referee, I would feel let-down if the FA didn't use this to make a stand against abusing refs.
Why this one? Why not the multitudes of incidents over the last few years? Why as a Villa fan do you think that a Villa player getting a ban that's totally out of line with the standard punishment for this type of incident is the right time for the FA to take a stand?
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As soon as he did it I was surprised the ref didn't have the red out of his pocket but maybe he didn't see it. It was a moronic thing to do, heard on the radio this morning that there is a planned strike of amateur referees this weekend to highlight the verbal and physical abuse they are subjected to week in, week out. A six game ban is a decent message to send out.
My sentiments entirely
Hear hear. Sunday morning football is dying a death as there's hardly any refs left.
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I too think 6 games is harsh but can't agree with the over reaction from Bacuna to a bad call from the linesman. That's all it was, a bad call and for something as irrelevant as a throw-in. Giving a penalty or a sending off and i can understand. but it was just a bad throw-in call. I understand tje context may have precipitated it, 1 point in 2017, bacuna not playing and starting for a long time, but all it was was a throw-in decision. Linesman and refs get those wrong all the time (not every decision but I mean in every game), the same as goal kicks and corners. Bacuna was probably angry, then playimg to the gallery, and his twattishness has probably cost him his Villa season, and I wouldn't mind betting, his Villa career.
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As soon as he did it I was surprised the ref didn't have the red out of his pocket but maybe he didn't see it. It was a moronic thing to do, heard on the radio this morning that there is a planned strike of amateur referees this weekend to highlight the verbal and physical abuse they are subjected to week in, week out. A six game ban is a decent message to send out.
My sentiments entirely
Hear hear. Sunday morning football is dying a death as there's hardly any refs left.
last week I went to see Stratford town and the stick the ref got from the benches was poor, it made me think why bother if I was him
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I hope Bruce has fined him 6 weeks wages as he wont be any use to us for 6 weeks
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I've got no issues with the ban. Any physical contact with an official in an aggressive manner is totally unacceptable and should be made an example of.
I've got issues with the fact that Hope Akpan of Blackburn got a 4 game ban for PUSHING THE REF! How come Bacuna gets a 6 game ban for 'bumping' the linesman who made a pathetic decision with the throw-in?? Tell me where is the consistency??
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As soon as he did it I was surprised the ref didn't have the red out of his pocket but maybe he didn't see it. It was a moronic thing to do, heard on the radio this morning that there is a planned strike of amateur referees this weekend to highlight the verbal and physical abuse they are subjected to week in, week out. A six game ban is a decent message to send out.
My sentiments entirely
Hear hear. Sunday morning football is dying a death as there's hardly any refs left.
last week I went to see Stratford town and the stick the ref got from the benches was poor, it made me think why bother if I was him
It makes my piss boil, grown men shouting and screaming because they can't get their own way.
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I've got no issues with the ban. Any physical contact with an official in an aggressive manner is totally unacceptable and should be made an example of.
I've got issues with the fact that Hope Akpan of Blackburn got a 4 game ban for PUSHING THE REF! How come Bacuna gets a 6 game ban for 'bumping' the linesman who made a pathetic decision with the throw-in?? Tell me where is the consistency??
Well yes. I wasn't aware of the Akpan incident and it sounds like he got off lightly if that is the case. Agree there has to be some kind of consistency.
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I have a lot of respect for anybody who decides to be a referee, even at junior level they get stick from coaches and parents which makes a mockery of the 'Respect' banners that are on display at each game. I got a mouthful of abuse from a coach reffing an under 8's match. His team were winning 5-0, it was last minute and I stopped the game because an opponent was hurt after a challenge, the team went on to score and he marched across the pitch as I was seeing a kid in tears was okay. It was the last time I allowed myself to be volunteered to ref, it was also the last time his team were invited to the tournament.
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Can't Villa appeal this decision? Surely the Akpan 4 game ban sets some kind of precedent? You could argue what Akpan did was far worse than Bacuna's offence?
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I don't have a problem with a 6 game ban for it, the inconsistency of length of ban is a problem though. Akpan and Bacuna should have received the same punishment.
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I don't have a problem with a 6 game ban for it, the inconsistency of length of ban is a problem though. Akpan and Bacuna should have received the same punishment.
Correct.
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I don't have a problem with a 6 game ban for it, the inconsistency of length of ban is a problem though. Akpan and Bacuna should have received the same punishment.
Correct.
That's it, haven't seen the other incident but Bacuna deserves the 6 game ban and by the sounds of it Akpan deserves similar.
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As soon as he did it I was surprised the ref didn't have the red out of his pocket but maybe he didn't see it. It was a moronic thing to do, heard on the radio this morning that there is a planned strike of amateur referees this weekend to highlight the verbal and physical abuse they are subjected to week in, week out. A six game ban is a decent message to send out.
My sentiments entirely
Hear hear. Sunday morning football is dying a death as there's hardly any refs left.
last week I went to see Stratford town and the stick the ref got from the benches was poor, it made me think why bother if I was him
It makes my piss boil, grown men shouting and screaming because they can't get their own way.
it was ridiculous there was a 50/50 in the air challenge and they both went up for, then went down and then got up . You would have thought that one of them had shot the other with the coaches reaction ???
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I'm not going to be all outraged because it's a Villa player and other players at other clubs have had lesser bans because, frankly, six games is lenient. Any player who lays a hand on a match official should be suspended for three months minimum. This is the area where the F.A. can easily make examples of relatively high profile players for the benefit of the grassroots game. As has been said, the the verbal and physical abuse meted out to officials in youth and Sunday League football is atrocious and the seeds for that abuse are sown with what those responsible witness every time they watch a match played by so-called professionals.
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Ignore the robotic voice on the Bacuna one as it's the best vid I can find on youtube of it.
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Who did the commentary on that? Suri? It's almost worth the six match ban just to hear it.
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I don't have a problem with a 6 game ban for it, the inconsistency of length of ban is a problem though. Akpan and Bacuna should have received the same punishment.
Correct.
That's it, haven't seen the other incident but Bacuna deserves the 6 game ban and by the sounds of it Akpan deserves similar.
Yes, but surely Bacuna should have a 4 game ban based on the precedent set by the Akpan ban? Consistency?? Explain that!
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I can't explain it and don't know why you think I possibly could. Akpan got off lightly by the sounds of it, Bacuna deserves his 6 match ban and possibly got off lightly too. I've noticed the crowding round referees and screaming in their face seems to be making an appearance again, looks great.
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Agreed, a six game ban is fully deserved if only to send the message out that match officials at all levels should be treated with respect, what ever their level of competence. Sunday league is much the worse for the lack of refs, most of them put off for the abuse they gave to suffer. Shite like Bacuna pulled, if ignored, send a message that it's open season on officials. Glad the FA have stamped down on it.
Sorry. Top deck made the same point in a far more lucid manner, I missed it.
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Also, Bacuna has a Badger-like jaw line and a menacing haircut.
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Perhaps Bacuna got more for swearing as well?
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I don't think they really care that much about swearing, Gary O'Neil of Bristol, if my rudimentary lip reading skills are up to much, screamed 'you fucking cheat' into the face of the Lino in the weekday match and he didn't bat an eyelid.
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I don't think they really care that much about swearing, Gary O'Neil of Bristol, if my rudimentary lip reading skills are up to much, screamed 'you fucking cheat' into the face of the Lino in the weekday match and he didn't bat an eyelid.
Garry Barry got sent off for saying something to a lino once.
I met him at a nightclub in Brighton later that season, and he told me what he said to the official. I would love to share it with you all, but I am sworn to secrecy in case he wants to stick it in his ghost-written biography. Bloody nice bloke, by the way, as was Michael Standing.
My opening drunken salvo was "Did you inquire : Are you, you dismal spunk bubble, a ***t without portfolio?". He replied that life was too short for punctuation and subordinate clauses, and that the short and sharp epithet was the essence of modern vernacular. He further ventured that 14 words would be the maximum length of a communication before too long. An idiot savant whose wife rode horses or a man out of time? We may never know.
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Well, quite.
It's very rare that I have even the faintest clue what you are on about but I tend to read anyway.
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I don't think they really care that much about swearing, Gary O'Neil of Bristol, if my rudimentary lip reading skills are up to much, screamed 'you fucking cheat' into the face of the Lino in the weekday match and he didn't bat an eyelid.
Garry Barry got sent off for saying something to a lino once.
I met him at a nightclub in Brighton later that season, and he told me what he said to the official. I would love to share it with you all, but I am sworn to secrecy in case he wants to stick it in his ghost-written biography. Bloody nice bloke, by the way, as was Michael Standing.
My opening drunken salvo was "Did you inquire : Are you, you dismal spunk bubble, a ***t without portfolio?". He replied that life was too short for punctuation and subordinate clauses, and that the short and sharp epithet was the essence of modern vernacular. He further ventured that 14 words would be the maximum length of a communication before too long. An idiot savant whose wife rode horses or a man out of time? We may never know.
Agreed 110%
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Any word yet on the blind linesman's condition?
I'm nominally an atheist but I can't stop praying for him.
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Just out of interest I googled what Michael Ballack's punishment was for chasing a referee down the field, screaming at him all the way and buffeting him with his arms because he didn't give Chelsea a penalty in a champions league game. Nothing happened to him, and from what I can gather Drogba only got into trouble because he swore in front of a TV camera after the game.
The problem here isn't that Bacuna got banned, it's the inconsistency. Governing bodies don't seem to adhere to guidelines for punishing players, don't seem to look at previous precedents set and just make decisions at random, much like the on field officials themselves. If they agreed to embrace video technology it would sort out all of this, offside calls, throw ins, corners, fouls, goal kicks etc. and ensure that every team was treated the same. In every single game I watch, in any league, there are always mistakes made by the officials.
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I just assumed the other two games were for Bacuna's lack of apology after the game....on his twitter and stuff.
I agree given Wenger and Akpan got 4 games that should've been the standard punishment.
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I said at the time I thought he was an idiot, and I stand by that. He can show all the "passion" he likes - squaring up to an official isn't showing passion at all.
Earlier on in the game, David Nugent continually swore at the ref for a good 30 seconds, along the lines of "every fucking time ref, you're giving them fucking everything".
Bacuna would have been much better served trying that instead of acting the tough guy with a lino, now meaning he's out until mid-late April.
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They should have the refs wearing some kind of recording device one weekend without telling the club's and then release them online to shame some of these professional 'sportsmen'. Hughes was non stop whinging at the referee, a yellow card would have soon shut him up.
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Having said that Kevin Friend is having a shocker today!
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Just posted on the other football thread. Classic case of inconsistency. Awful refereeing.
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Man U v Bournemouth: stamp on a players head second yellow probably a one match ban. Elbow player in face not even a yellow. Bacuna six match ban for slight touch if any on Lino. You work it out cos I can't.
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The player, Ming's, was the one doing the stamping is still on. Surman got sent off for two yellow's, the second for pushing Ibrahimovic over. It's farcical and does the game no good whatsoever.
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They should have the refs wearing some kind of recording device one weekend without telling the club's and then release them online to shame some of these professional 'sportsmen'. Hughes was non stop whinging at the referee, a yellow card would have soon shut him up.
Davis Elleray was fitted with a mic for an Arsenal Millwall game in the late 80's and he got dogs' abuse from players like Adams. Seem to remember one of the arsenal players calling him a cheat. Probably be on Yow tube somewhere. Hard to feel sorry for Ellleray though, the smug twat.
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I remember that, Elleray was a pompous bastard, wasn't he a house master at a school?
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I remember that, Elleray was a pompous bastard, wasn't he a house master at a school?
Harrow
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Any word yet on the blind linesman's condition?
I'm nominally an atheist but I can't stop praying for him.
Not much has been said about how he managed to give the wrong decision for that throw in. It was right in front of him.
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They should have the refs wearing some kind of recording device one weekend without telling the club's and then release them online to shame some of these professional 'sportsmen'. Hughes was non stop whinging at the referee, a yellow card would have soon shut him up.
Davis Elleray was fitted with a mic for an Arsenal Millwall game in the late 80's and he got dogs' abuse from players like Adams. Seem to remember one of the arsenal players calling him a cheat. Probably be on Yow tube somewhere. Hard to feel sorry for Ellleray though, the smug twat.
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Any word yet on the blind linesman's condition?
I'm nominally an atheist but I can't stop praying for him.
Through the worst of it now, thank God.
But physical scars heal easily. Hard to tell if he'll be able to put his life together after a really menacing stare from Bacuna and all that potty mouth.
The refs who ran the gauntlet of hate on the rare occasion they gave a decision against Yanited in the 90s and early noughties must be nervous wrecks now.
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He seemed to cope with physical contact far better than many players manage.
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I remember that, Elleray was a pompous bastard, wasn't he a house master at a school?
Harrow
Is it me your looking for, I can see it in your eyes.....
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Not defending Bacuna but the inconsistency is ridiculous. On MOTD last night when the ref gave Burnley the ludicrous penalty one of the Swansea players shoved him in the chest amongst the effing and jeffing in the aftermath and nothing, nothing at all was done.
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You've also got the ridiculous rule that you can't appeal the decision. A nonsense.
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I remember that, Elleray was a pompous bastard, wasn't he a house master at a school?
:)
Harrow
Is it me your looking for, I can see it in your eyes.....
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Graham Poll, ex referee, is today (5th March) calling for Ibrahimovic ("he butted my elbow") and Ming to get retrospective 3 match bans after two violent incidents yesterday. In the first, Ming stood on the Swede's head, in the second, Ibrahimovic elbowed Ming.
Bacuna got a 3 match ban doubled after bumping the linesman. Deserved it in my view, can't have players losing their tempers. But it was not serious violence and I did not see what he had done from my point on the Holte end, had to see it on TV to realize what had happened. The elbow however was seen at the time and led to a player fracas
So what level of ban are the PRemiership players going to get? If less than Bacuna, this will add fuel to the feeling that Villa are picked on by the authorities. Let us hope the punishment fits the crime in these latest incidents.
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The FA have always had it in for Villa, going back to when they banned Bruce Rioch for a month in 1971 for a handful of bookings.
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I remember that, Elleray was a pompous bastard, wasn't he a house master at a school?
Harrow
Is it me your looking for, I can see it in your eyes.....
Hmmm
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It was harsh on Bacuna but I'd still like to see a line drawn under his career now. He's a brain fade waiting to happen and at his best is nothing more than mediocre. The vast majority of the time he's piss poor. I don't want to see him play for the club again. Chance after chance after chance. He's had his time, now we should fuck him off.
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It was harsh on Bacuna but I'd still like to see a line drawn under his career now. He's a brain fade waiting to happen and at his best is nothing more than mediocre. The vast majority of the time he's piss poor. I don't want to see him play for the club again. Chance after chance after chance. He's had his time, now we should fuck him off.
I agree. I've had my fill of stupid footballers, as well as shit ones, and unfortunately he fits both categories.
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It was harsh on Bacuna but I'd still like to see a line drawn under his career now. He's a brain fade waiting to happen and at his best is nothing more than mediocre. The vast majority of the time he's piss poor. I don't want to see him play for the club again. Chance after chance after chance. He's had his time, now we should fuck him off.
Absolutely.
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It was harsh on Bacuna but I'd still like to see a line drawn under his career now. He's a brain fade waiting to happen and at his best is nothing more than mediocre. The vast majority of the time he's piss poor. I don't want to see him play for the club again. Chance after chance after chance. He's had his time, now we should fuck him off.
I agree. I've had my fill of stupid footballers, as well as shit ones, and unfortunately he fits both categories.
I completely agree I file Bacuna along side with Gabby Lescott Richards.
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It was harsh on Bacuna but I'd still like to see a line drawn under his career now. He's a brain fade waiting to happen and at his best is nothing more than mediocre. The vast majority of the time he's piss poor. I don't want to see him play for the club again. Chance after chance after chance. He's had his time, now we should fuck him off.
I agree. I've had my fill of stupid footballers, as well as shit ones, and unfortunately he fits both categories.
I completely agree I file Bacuna along side with Gabby Lescott Richards.
Me too. I can't stand the three of them. They're all crap players with crap attitudes. Bruce would win alot more fans if he just got rid of these ******.
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Bruce has said himself that with Bacuna it's all about him and nothing else, fuck him off in the Summer, he's crap anyway, get a few quid from a mug punter and move on.
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I do like Bacuna. I think he's a useful player to have around the squad bearing in mind he tends to play a lot of his time out of position.
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Bruce has said himself that with Bacuna it's all about him and nothing else, fuck him off in the Summer, he's crap anyway, get a few quid from a mug punter and move on.
Yeah - might as well flog him, we wouldn't miss him.
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I, for one, am shocked that a Manchester United player has had a ban which is half as long, for a much more serious offence than that committed by an Aston Villa player.
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Back in the good ol' days, Yanited could decapitate a referee and a compliant media would downplay it as the sort of spirit required to win titles.
Far easier to throw the book at soft targets such as Aston Villa.
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I, for one, am shocked that a Manchester United player has had a ban which is half as long, for a much more serious offence than that committed by an Aston Villa player.
The FA consider any physical altercation with an official as the most heinous crime.
You can sort of understand it when you consider the example it could set and the problems they are facing with recruiting and retaining referees at grass roots level.
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I, for one, am shocked that a Manchester United player has had a ban which is half as long, for a much more serious offence than that committed by an Aston Villa player.
Not really. I would say both the incidents at Old Trafford would have been red cards had they been seen and would have got an automatic ban. I would say that had serious injury been sustained in either incident, then a further ban would have been merited.
Bacuna's offence was a different type of offence to those two, but given some of the punishments that have been dished out for similar offences, six games does seem a bit extreme on reflection. The four game ban given to the player who pushed the ref at Hillsborough would have sufficed.
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I'm happy with the six game ban if it now sets the precedent and EVERY time a player touches an official when disagreeing with a decision he gets at least a six game ban.
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A rule which, we all know, will be abandoned the second that the offender is wearing a red shirt.
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I'm happy with the six game ban if it now sets the precedent and EVERY time a player touches an official when disagreeing with a decision he gets at least a six game ban.
I think it should be more like 10
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dc dave collett is the only one to raise the bigger issue, how the FA treat the villa. Really this needs to be a separate thread and one should be started, taking up the contrast between Ibrahimovic and Bacuna. Leo was out of order, no one disputes he was and should be punished. But a three match suspension increased to 6? Is that fair? And if not, does this and the history deserve to be questioned?
I think it does, and the punishment for the pitch invasion still rankles. Yes fans should not be on the pitch and the club deserved to be fined. But the comments from the media (another problem for villa) were out of line and need to be put into the pot. This was not a return to the 80s, Villa does not have a violent fan base as the arrest tally shows.
While some of the posts have seen the 6 match ban as appropriate for touching an official, had the Mings - Ibrahimovic incidents resulted in serious injury, then there would have been an outcry. Media comment has been muted. Yet Mings seemed to stand on the head of the swede - and he is contesting the charge, so we need to wait to see what happened - but Ibrahimovic has accepted a charge of violent conduct for elbowing Mings. And got pushed to the ground in what Bournemouth players saw as an outrage.
So the punishments seem out of line, even if as has been said the touching of an official is seen as a higher offence, 4 game ban for a similar offence has been quoted.
The underlying issue is whether VIlla are treated fairly by the authorities and the media, and if we can divorce this from Leo who is not a popular player then lets look at the bigger picture. And just to put the historical perspective into the frame, we are two months away from the 60th anniversary of the last cup win. And the MacParland- Wood clash. Peter Mac has long since been tried and convicted by the media, for an incident which was not his fault and was legal in the rules of the day.
We are likely to hear more about that in May, and be tarnished with winning the cup by foul play. If Villa are now regarded as a dirty club, and may have been given that image 60 years ago, its time to address that image problem. Its gone on too long.
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Did the FA release the reasons for the increased ban...they do that for a lot of disciplinary cases now like Wenger a few weeks back.
I too think 4 games is the precent. I just assumed they added more due to Bacuna not apolgising after the game so lack of contrition means a couple more on top of the standard ban.
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what the FA has said to justify this is obscure, but pales into insignificance against the bans handed out to serious violence missed by the ref in the Man u - Bournmouth game. Mings has now had a 5 match ban for deliberately stamping on the head of the swede. Ibrahimovic has a three match ban for elbowing Mings, presumably in retaliation and leading to him being pushed to the ground and potentially leading to a mass brawl.
Leo gets 6 matches, tho it is said here that perhaps it was increased becauase he didn't say sorry. Like a politician, perhaps? They are always saying sorry.
The issue is not about Bacuna, its about fairness. As with the fine for the crowd invasion and other incidents where villa get stamped on, the authorities and media seem to have it in for the club
Which raises the wider issue, where the club lost its pride. We don't excuse what Leo did, but why there are comments about Leo and not the way the club has been treated over the years is a mystery. The world sees us as a failed institution, and that was so under Lerner. But its time to get our pride back, starting with questioning why we and our players get treated in ways that are out of order.
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Infamy... Infamy...
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Infamy... Infamy...
Stop messin' about!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nf6HVa/kw.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nf6HVa)
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what the FA has said to justify this is obscure, but pales into insignificance against the bans handed out to serious violence missed by the ref in the Man u - Bournmouth game. Mings has now had a 5 match ban for deliberately stamping on the head of the swede. Ibrahimovic has a three match ban for elbowing Mings, presumably in retaliation and leading to him being pushed to the ground and potentially leading to a mass brawl.
Leo gets 6 matches, tho it is said here that perhaps it was increased becauase he didn't say sorry. Like a politician, perhaps? They are always saying sorry.
The issue is not about Bacuna, its about fairness. As with the fine for the crowd invasion and other incidents where villa get stamped on, the authorities and media seem to have it in for the club
Which raises the wider issue, where the club lost its pride. We don't excuse what Leo did, but why there are comments about Leo and not the way the club has been treated over the years is a mystery. The world sees us as a failed institution, and that was so under Lerner. But its time to get our pride back, starting with questioning why we and our players get treated in ways that are out of order.
Nothing to do with lack of pride etc. The club knows how serious a crime it is for a player to physically touch a match official in an aggressive manner, and rightly so. He deserves his long ban and that's that.
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Amen.
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For all we know, Bacuna went hard at the lino like The Crack Fox and chest bumped him with erect nipples on his steroid enhanced pecs threatening all manner of molestation. He was lucky to get away with a 6 game game ban. In Saudi Arabia he'd get a fucking good caning or an amputation.
(http://i.imgur.com/jUjDsyp.gif)
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what the FA has said to justify this is obscure, but pales into insignificance against the bans handed out to serious violence missed by the ref in the Man u - Bournmouth game. Mings has now had a 5 match ban for deliberately stamping on the head of the swede. Ibrahimovic has a three match ban for elbowing Mings, presumably in retaliation and leading to him being pushed to the ground and potentially leading to a mass brawl.
Leo gets 6 matches, tho it is said here that perhaps it was increased becauase he didn't say sorry. Like a politician, perhaps? They are always saying sorry.
The issue is not about Bacuna, its about fairness. As with the fine for the crowd invasion and other incidents where villa get stamped on, the authorities and media seem to have it in for the club
Which raises the wider issue, where the club lost its pride. We don't excuse what Leo did, but why there are comments about Leo and not the way the club has been treated over the years is a mystery. The world sees us as a failed institution, and that was so under Lerner. But its time to get our pride back, starting with questioning why we and our players get treated in ways that are out of order.
Nothing to do with lack of pride etc. The club knows how serious a crime it is for a player to physically touch a match official in an aggressive manner, and rightly so. He deserves his long ban and that's that.
Both post still miss the point that 6 matches for contact with an official has no precedence. Whether he deserves it or not is besides the point (and I find it strange that so many Villa fans seem happy that it's so long) if he deserves it then so do the multitudes of people who have commited similar offences since the respect campaign started. To pick a random player in the middle of a season to make an example of is ridiculous and the club should have appealed on those grounds rather than on whether he was guilty or not. Without precedence it just looks like they've decided that Villa and Bacuna are soft targets for them to make an example of without upsetting anyone in the press. Imagine if it was Rooney and the different reaction it would've received.
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what the FA has said to justify this is obscure, but pales into insignificance against the bans handed out to serious violence missed by the ref in the Man u - Bournmouth game. Mings has now had a 5 match ban for deliberately stamping on the head of the swede. Ibrahimovic has a three match ban for elbowing Mings, presumably in retaliation and leading to him being pushed to the ground and potentially leading to a mass brawl.
Leo gets 6 matches, tho it is said here that perhaps it was increased becauase he didn't say sorry. Like a politician, perhaps? They are always saying sorry.
The issue is not about Bacuna, its about fairness. As with the fine for the crowd invasion and other incidents where villa get stamped on, the authorities and media seem to have it in for the club
Which raises the wider issue, where the club lost its pride. We don't excuse what Leo did, but why there are comments about Leo and not the way the club has been treated over the years is a mystery. The world sees us as a failed institution, and that was so under Lerner. But its time to get our pride back, starting with questioning why we and our players get treated in ways that are out of order.
Nothing to do with lack of pride etc. The club knows how serious a crime it is for a player to physically touch a match official in an aggressive manner, and rightly so. He deserves his long ban and that's that.
Both post still miss the point that 6 matches for contact with an official has no precedence. Whether he deserves it or not is besides the point (and I find it strange that so many Villa fans seem happy that it's so long) if he deserves it then so do the multitudes of people who have commited similar offences since the respect campaign started. To pick a random player in the middle of a season to make an example of is ridiculous and the club should have appealed on those grounds rather than on whether he was guilty or not. Without precedence it just looks like they've decided that Villa and Bacuna are soft targets for them to make an example of without upsetting anyone in the press. Imagine if it was Rooney and the different reaction it would've received.
Amen/ praise McGrath etc.
We still don't know whether he even meant to make contact with the official (and the ref had to ask the blind barsteward in question that, despite only being yards away himself). People in the ground weren't sure. And watching it back on replay doesn't help a whole pile either. There was enough doubt to apply a bit of cop on and leniency, but it's only Aston Villa, so throw the book at them.
I missed the edict that said from now on, any physical contact with the officials will result in an immediate six game ban. I'm not saying it's not there, just don't recall that message being circulated. I'm sure our ref watchers/ amateur referees can clarify.
If this is the start of a zero tolerance approach to such things, so that the next time Yanited or some of the other sky lot get similar sanctions when they surround the ref and inadvertently/deliberately bump into him (it's the same thing now) then aye, being collateral damage in an attempt to clean up the game might be more palatable. I have a weird feeling that isn't going to occur though.
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what the FA has said to justify this is obscure, but pales into insignificance against the bans handed out to serious violence missed by the ref in the Man u - Bournmouth game. Mings has now had a 5 match ban for deliberately stamping on the head of the swede. Ibrahimovic has a three match ban for elbowing Mings, presumably in retaliation and leading to him being pushed to the ground and potentially leading to a mass brawl.
Leo gets 6 matches, tho it is said here that perhaps it was increased becauase he didn't say sorry. Like a politician, perhaps? They are always saying sorry.
The issue is not about Bacuna, its about fairness. As with the fine for the crowd invasion and other incidents where villa get stamped on, the authorities and media seem to have it in for the club
Which raises the wider issue, where the club lost its pride. We don't excuse what Leo did, but why there are comments about Leo and not the way the club has been treated over the years is a mystery. The world sees us as a failed institution, and that was so under Lerner. But its time to get our pride back, starting with questioning why we and our players get treated in ways that are out of order.
Nothing to do with lack of pride etc. The club knows how serious a crime it is for a player to physically touch a match official in an aggressive manner, and rightly so. He deserves his long ban and that's that.
Saying "that's that" is a mature and inclusive way to engage in debate.
He doesn't deserve anything like six games. He hardly touched the official. No one else has got six games for doing what he did.
If it had been a Manchester United player, or even a Blackburn one, the ban would've been far shorter.
ETA: Just noticed Paul E has expressed my points in a far more coherent manner.
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I can't help my dislike of Bacuna influencing whether I think the ban is fair or not.
Maybe he has had that effect on the people at the FA.
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I can't help my dislike of you making me think your view is idiotic.
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>:(
I can't help my dislike of you making me think your view is idiotic.
Grow up.
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Please keep it civil gents.
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The inconsistency in punishment is what fucks people off. Deliberately shove the ref? 4 games. Accidentally bump the lino when having a tantrum? 6 games. Racially abuse someone? 5 games. Clatter into the ref in anger if you play for Man Ure? Not even a red.
There are different parts to the arguments here. Do we want to see extended bans for violent conduct towards officials? I say definitely yes. Should there be a sliding scale of punishment for deliberate as opposed to accidentally touching an official? I think so.
Should these be set as rules and applied across the board to all teams? Absolutely. Should the FA be allowed to just crack Bacuna because they can and balls to what they said for a worse offence a month ago? No.
Should they be allowed to only apply it to clubs of their choosing? Fuck no.
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A rule which, we all know, will be abandoned the second that the offender is wearing a red shirt.
Which contraintuitively would guarantee their demise on Star Trek.
It's a funny old game.
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It should not have been 6 games, absolutely excessive and well out of line with any other ban handed out this season.
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I can't help my dislike of Bacuna influencing whether I think the ban is fair or not.
Maybe he has had that effect on the people at the FA.
So if it was a player you actually liked the ban would have been too harsh then.
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A rule which, we all know, will be abandoned the second that the offender is wearing a red shirt.
Which contraintuitively would guarantee their demise on Star Trek.
It's a funny old game.
Hmmmm... so we just need to find a way to get Man United on Star Trek?
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A rule which, we all know, will be abandoned the second that the offender is wearing a red shirt.
Which contraintuitively would guarantee their demise on Star Trek.
It's a funny old game.
Hmmmm... so we just need to find a way to get Man United on Star Trek?
I don't reckon them against the Klingons.
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A deliberate stamp on the head is worth a game less that putting a hand on an incompetent buffoon.
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One thing that watching Championship football has shown me is how difficult the job of the referee and linesman is. The quality is noticeably worse, when you go down just one level of football. These are not 'incompetent buffoons' but some of the best officials in the country trying to do a very difficult job in trying conditions. As others have noted, if you go down to the amateur leagues then officials often face physical abuse. They have to be protected and allowed to do their job as best they can without fear of abuse.
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As a qualified ref, I've observed the quality of officiating with interest this season. I'd offer that the Championship games seem to be refereed more liberally: compared with the Prem League, there are harder tackles, players seem to be allowed to hold onto each other and even grapple with each other with impunity, and I've seen more off-the-ball interference (blocking runners).
And, more inconsistency; an example being on Tuesday when Jedi was booked for a first cynical tackle after 2 'udders defenders had got away with the same offence.
In the context of Bacuna's offence, I think the ref got some things wrong taking the context of the game and the timing. But the red was the right decision.
It's the FA that has overreacted.
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Agree Mr E but I think the FA is a bumbling organisation that uses instances like Bacuna to shore up its image for no nonsense. The biblical expression about straining at gnats and swallowing camels covers it.
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Just a thought ,if the club as an asset ,is now valued at roughly half of its previous worth, does that mean all the recent players brought are worth a lot less than we paid for them? on paper that is.
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Oops sorry wrong thread
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As a qualified ref, I've observed the quality of officiating with interest this season. I'd offer that the Championship games seem to be refereed more liberally: compared with the Prem League, there are harder tackles, players seem to be allowed to hold onto each other and even grapple with each other with impunity, and I've seen more off-the-ball interference (blocking runners).
And, more inconsistency; an example being on Tuesday when Jedi was booked for a first cynical tackle after 2 'udders defenders had got away with the same offence.
In the context of Bacuna's offence, I think the ref got some things wrong taking the context of the game and the timing. But the red was the right decision.
It's the FA that has overreacted.
The refs in the lower divisions allow far more physical contact than those in the PL. I have seen instances this season where what would probably have been a yellow card in the PL and undoubtedly a free kick, has just been ignored by the ref. The other difference I think is that players do not go down so easily, (probably not got the intelligence!) so they do not force the refs hand as much as in the PL where the meerest of contact usually results in the recipient sprawling to the floor appealing like mad.
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As a qualified ref, I've observed the quality of officiating with interest this season. I'd offer that the Championship games seem to be refereed more liberally: compared with the Prem League, there are harder tackles, players seem to be allowed to hold onto each other and even grapple with each other with impunity, and I've seen more off-the-ball interference (blocking runners).
And, more inconsistency; an example being on Tuesday when Jedi was booked for a first cynical tackle after 2 'udders defenders had got away with the same offence.
In the context of Bacuna's offence, I think the ref got some things wrong taking the context of the game and the timing. But the red was the right decision.
It's the FA that has overreacted.
The refs in the lower divisions allow far more physical contact than those in the PL. I have seen instances this season where what would probably have been a yellow card in the PL and undoubtedly a free kick, has just been ignored by the ref. The other difference I think is that players do not go down so easily, (probably not got the intelligence!) so they do not force the refs hand as much as in the PL where the meerest of contact usually results in the recipient sprawling to the floor appealing like mad.
True, which shows how bad Kodjia's dive was on Tuesday: comedic acting which desrverdly drew the yellow card.
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Think the refs are terrible down here personally, not just poor decisions but they can't control games aswell such as taking ages to signal when a player goes down injured which is why so many games down here have 5-6 minutes added on.
They do have the air of anonymity though...I could barely name one who's reffed us this season while I can still rattle off 3/4 of the prem refs.
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Think the refs are terrible down here personally, not just poor decisions but they can't control games aswell such as taking ages to signal when a player goes down injured which is why so many games down here have 5-6 minutes added on.
They do have the air of anonymity though...I could barely name one who's reffed us this season while I can still rattle off 3/4 of the prem refs.
Totally agree, the refereeing in this division is appalling but the more experienced championship teams use it to their advantage, something we need to catch up with sooner rather than later
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Sky Transfer Centre saying Villa have rejected a £1.5million bid from
Reading. Adding Reading not prepared to increase their offer.
Based on today's game they can have Lansbury instead.
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Lets hope they come back for Bacuna .....make him think they are Champions League
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Not much point selling him for that. Prett good today
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I would love to see him gone!!! I hope Villa can make this happen!
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Bacuna is rank average. Move him on and get better in.
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He has patches where he looks busy and aggressive going forward. Unfortunately, none of the players ahead of him currently are that much better so unless we're getting a Baker-like fee, I'd hold onto him.
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I would love to see him gone!!! I hope Villa can make this happen!
Me too. I'm surprised he's still here really. Let's hope they come in with another offer.
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Lets hope they come back for Bacuna .....make him think they are Champions League
How do people still bang on about this complete non-story?
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He has ambitions to play in the CL. So what? I'm glad he has those goals even if they might appear right now a long way off. But then again a former player of ours who many weren't sad to see the back of is now captain of his Dutch champions in this seasons CL.
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He was asked in an interview if he'd like to play in CL and like every other player in the country he said yes. I'd be more bothered if he didn't want to play in it.
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I don't dislike Bacuna, but he is third choice or lower for all the positions he plays. The offer is for about what we paid for him so given we need to make savings on the wage bill I'd be inclined to take the money. He is pretty disposable.
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Benteke made him look good. Sell if somebody is daft enough to buy.
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He was asked in an interview if he'd like to play in CL and like every other player in the country he said yes. I'd be more bothered if he didn't want to play in it.
Amazingly, it was even more innocuous than that.
He was asked "if you came back to the Eredivisie, would you like to play for someone like Ajax or PSV?"
He said, "sure, they play in the Champions League so who wouldn't?"
What the fuck is he supposed to say? "No, I'm saving myself for Nijmegen or Go Ahead Eagles, because in all honesty I've always thought I'm a bit shit"?
And then a bunch of people who can't read past a newspaper headline wet their knickers.
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We're trying to trim the squad by jettisoning shit players. Bye Leandro.
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Could not give a toss about the CL myth.
Want him gone because of his attitude and ability.
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We're trying to trim the squad by jettisoning shit players. Bye Leandro.
I agree. He's stunk the place out for years. I honestly thought we'd never see him again once we were relegated yet two season later he's still here. It was absolute madness giving a player as limited as him a five year deal.
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I like him, although he isn't the greatest player obviously! He's the kind of player I think you need as a squad player. Was cheap, low(ish) wages and can play a number of positions. Over a 46 game season a player like that is needed especially from the bench.
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I like him, although he isn't the greatest player obviously! He's the kind of player I think you need as a squad player. Was cheap, low(ish) wages and can play a number of positions. Over a 46 game season a player like that is needed especially from the bench.
We've had a massive bench of utter shite ready at a moment's notice to deputise for dreadful mediocrity. It doesn't work Peter.
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I like him, although he isn't the greatest player obviously! He's the kind of player I think you need as a squad player. Was cheap, low(ish) wages and can play a number of positions. Over a 46 game season a player like that is needed especially from the bench.
We've had a massive bench of utter shite ready at a moment's notice to deputise for dreadful mediocrity. It doesn't work Peter.
Yep, that's the nail on the head.
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A side as one paced and unathletic as we are in the centre of the park shouldn't be in such a rush to ditch one of the few mobile players we have. We need legs in there.
By all means get rid if we bring better quality in.
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I like him, although he isn't the greatest player obviously! He's the kind of player I think you need as a squad player. Was cheap, low(ish) wages and can play a number of positions. Over a 46 game season a player like that is needed especially from the bench.
Yup. He can't do a brilliant job anywhere. But he can do a passable job at about six positions.
We've been paying people more money for the last half decade who can't do a passable job in any position.
He's the Division 2 Villa version of Simon Grayson. Not someone to get angry about, just someone to not really worry about whether he is in our squad or in someone else's.
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He was asked in an interview if he'd like to play in CL and like every other player in the country he said yes. I'd be more bothered if he didn't want to play in it.
Spot on.
Once again, had the misfortune of playing in a poor Villa team.
I always felt he's better than credited for.
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I like him, although he isn't the greatest player obviously! He's the kind of player I think you need as a squad player. Was cheap, low(ish) wages and can play a number of positions. Over a 46 game season a player like that is needed especially from the bench.
We've had a massive bench of utter shite ready at a moment's notice to deputise for dreadful mediocrity. It doesn't work Peter.
We're a division 2 side hit with FFP problems, we're going to have average players on the bench. I'd prefer to have a versatile one that as KG says is at least mobile and has something approaching pace.
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I like him, although he isn't the greatest player obviously! He's the kind of player I think you need as a squad player. Was cheap, low(ish) wages and can play a number of positions. Over a 46 game season a player like that is needed especially from the bench.
We've had a massive bench of utter shite ready at a moment's notice to deputise for dreadful mediocrity. It doesn't work Peter.
We're a division 2 side hit with FFP problems, we're going to have average players on the bench. I'd prefer to have a versatile one that as KG says is at least mobile and has something approaching pace.
I think his mobility is a factor, as other some of the other options we have don't have that. Bruce seems to like him as he has used him a bit.
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He's the Division 2 Villa version of Simon Grayson. Not someone to get angry about, just someone to not really worry about whether he is in our squad or in someone else's.
Oh to be damned with faint praise. That's absolutely spot on. He did ok yesterday, he always does ok, never any more.
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He's the Division 2 Villa version of Simon Grayson. Not someone to get angry about, just someone to not really worry about whether he is in our squad or in someone else's.
Oh to be damned with faint praise. That's absolutely spot on. He did ok yesterday, he always does ok, never any more.
If he was a regular starter then I think we might have problems, as backup for a number of positions he is fine and probably as good as we will get at this level.
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He's the Division 2 Villa version of Simon Grayson. Not someone to get angry about, just someone to not really worry about whether he is in our squad or in someone else's.
Oh to be damned with faint praise. That's absolutely spot on. He did ok yesterday, he always does ok, never any more.
If he was a regular starter then I think we might have problems, as backup for a number of positions he is fine and probably as good as we will get at this level.
Agree. Bearing in mind he can do a job in several positions, selling him for that amount would have been pointless.
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I like him, although he isn't the greatest player obviously! He's the kind of player I think you need as a squad player. Was cheap, low(ish) wages and can play a number of positions. Over a 46 game season a player like that is needed especially from the bench.
Yup. He can't do a brilliant job anywhere. But he can do a passable job at about six positions.
We've been paying people more money for the last half decade who can't do a passable job in any position.
He's the Division 2 Villa version of Simon Grayson. Not someone to get angry about, just someone to not really worry about whether he is in our squad or in someone else's.
We've paid shed loads for so called specialist players who can't bring what he can offer even though that's limited.
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Get some money in for him. Someone will pay 2 million. Get the squad size down and rely on the kids to fill the gaps. I think we are Peter Crouch away from a decent side.
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He's shite, sell.
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I wouldn't sell him for pennies to a rival. I'd want at least £3 million, I reckon.
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£1.5m wasn't too bad considering we only paid £1m. If they go to £2m or higher we simply must sell. He's alright covering RB but offers very little anywhere else.
He's averaging two goals a season, he's dispensable.
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£1.5m wasn't too bad considering we only paid £1m. If they go to £2m or higher we simply must sell. He's alright covering RB but offers very little anywhere else.
He's averaging two goals a season, he's dispensable.
That's more than Gabby's managed.
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Not quite. That waste of space is averaging three goals over the same time.
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£1.5m wasn't too bad considering we only paid £1m. If they go to £2m or higher we simply must sell. He's alright covering RB but offers very little anywhere else.
He's averaging two goals a season, he's dispensable.
That's more than Gabby's managed.
So don't sell a Bacuna because Gabby is shit? How does that work.
Ideally sell them both, they're garbage but we know there are no mug punters around to take a gorm like Gabby off our hands.
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£1.5m wasn't too bad considering we only paid £1m. If they go to £2m or higher we simply must sell. He's alright covering RB but offers very little anywhere else.
He's averaging two goals a season, he's dispensable.
That's more than Gabby's managed.
So don't sell a Bacuna because Gabby is shit? How does that work.
Where have I said that exactly?
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Lets hope they come back for Bacuna .....make him think they are Champions League
How do people still bang on about this complete non-story?
Sorry I forgot nobody is allowed to have a different view on things than Dave .......... not a non story at all ....it was a factual statement made
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£1.5m wasn't too bad considering we only paid £1m. If they go to £2m or higher we simply must sell. He's alright covering RB but offers very little anywhere else.
He's averaging two goals a season, he's dispensable.
That's more than Gabby's managed.
So don't sell a Bacuna because Gabby is shit? How does that work.
Where have I said that exactly?
A poster mentions that he's averaged 2 goals a season and is dispensable, your reply is Gabby scores less? What is your point? Is there one?
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As others have said, Bacuna's versatility sets him apart form the likes of Gardner, Tshibola, etc. He's a useful player to have around. Much like Baker, if an offer of £3-£4m came-in, I think it'd be debate-worthy, but for £1.5m, not a chance. You could just see him going to Reading, and Stam turning him into a consistently good player too.
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How do people still bang on about this complete non-story?
There forums are all about mis-facts, half truths, made up stuff and loose interpretations and most of all opinionated comments. Keep banging on I say.
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He was asked in an interview if he'd like to play in CL and like every other player in the country he said yes. I'd be more bothered if he didn't want to play in it.
Amazingly, it was even more innocuous than that.
He was asked "if you came back to the Eredivisie, would you like to play for someone like Ajax or PSV?"
He said, "sure, they play in the Champions League so who wouldn't?"
What the fuck is he supposed to say? "No, I'm saving myself for Nijmegen or Go Ahead Eagles, because in all honesty I've always thought I'm a bit shit"?
And then a bunch of people who can't read past a newspaper headline wet their knickers.
I think the larger issue which has allowed this to become an urban legend is when it was said. It was when the wheels were well and truly coming off at the club. Tensions were incredibly high, and then add to the comment was the Twitter post and photo where he's on holiday somewhere (I think) with a grin on his face. Completely innocuous but given the circumstances surrounding the club, coupled with the CL comment became a stick to continuously beat him with.
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£1.5m wasn't too bad considering we only paid £1m. If they go to £2m or higher we simply must sell. He's alright covering RB but offers very little anywhere else.
He's averaging two goals a season, he's dispensable.
That's more than Gabby's managed.
So don't sell a Bacuna because Gabby is shit? How does that work.
Where have I said that exactly?
A poster mentions that he's averaged 2 goals a season and is dispensable, your reply is Gabby scores less? What is your point? Is there one?
It was just a comment that it was more than Gabby had managed. I wasn't suggesting we keep him on the back ofit like you suggested i was.
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Part of the reason why we conceded so many late goals during Di Matteo's tenure (in my opinion) is that as well as the mental fragility easily enough associated with a recently relegated side we also looked unfit.
From about the 70th minute onwards, we played as if someone had taken the wind out of our sails. Bacuna -when he came in for that first win in about 25 years against Reading- played a part in our turnaround. One of the reasons for that is he was one of the few players we had who could last 90 minutes.
I would have gladly seen him potted last summer, but he responded well last season. Without ever truly hitting top form. I think we could get even more from him. Which would be better for us than a derisory £1.5 million or whatever.
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The problem is it looks like we have bought 3 players that are not really improvements on Bacuna.
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£1.5m wasn't too bad considering we only paid £1m. If they go to £2m or higher we simply must sell. He's alright covering RB but offers very little anywhere else.
He's averaging two goals a season, he's dispensable.
That's more than Gabby's managed.
So don't sell a Bacuna because Gabby is shit? How does that work.
Where have I said that exactly?
A poster mentions that he's averaged 2 goals a season and is dispensable, your reply is Gabby scores less? What is your point? Is there one?
It was just a comment that it was more than Gabby had managed. I wasn't suggesting we keep him on the back ofit like you suggested i was.
Everyone has contributed more than Gabby the last few years.
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He was asked in an interview if he'd like to play in CL and like every other player in the country he said yes. I'd be more bothered if he didn't want to play in it.
Amazingly, it was even more innocuous than that.
He was asked "if you came back to the Eredivisie, would you like to play for someone like Ajax or PSV?"
He said, "sure, they play in the Champions League so who wouldn't?"
What the fuck is he supposed to say? "No, I'm saving myself for Nijmegen or Go Ahead Eagles, because in all honesty I've always thought I'm a bit shit"?
And then a bunch of people who can't read past a newspaper headline wet their knickers.
I think the larger issue which has allowed this to become an urban legend is when it was said. It was when the wheels were well and truly coming off at the club. Tensions were incredibly high, and then add to the comment was the Twitter post and photo where he's on holiday somewhere (I think) with a grin on his face. Completely innocuous but given the circumstances surrounding the club, coupled with the CL comment became a stick to continuously beat him with.
He also got embroiled in a few confrontations with fans around that time. I remember him playing a horrendous backpass at Villa Park which gifted Southampton a goal just before half time and then having a frank exchange of opinions with some fans in the Trinity Road stand on his way off.
I wouldn't be too disappointed if he was sold for a decent price but he wouldn't be on the list of priorities to move out at the moment. I remember Alex Ferguson saying that he always wanted at least a couple of players in his squad that could play in a number of positions and I do get the impression that Bruce has time for him.
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not putting all the blame on him as the whole lot of them were crap but the reason we are a mid championship team after being relegated is because we keep playing the likes of bacuna etc. We need to get rid of more and he is one of them. He is crap.
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As others have said, Bacuna's versatility sets him apart form the likes of Gardner, Tshibola, etc. He's a useful player to have around. Much like Baker, if an offer of £3-£4m came-in, I think it'd be debate-worthy, but for £1.5m, not a chance. You could just see him going to Reading, and Stam turning him into a consistently good player too.
If we could swap Bacuna for Stam??
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Bruce's main issue with him has been Bacunas bad time-keeping when it comes to training.
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Bruce's main issue with him has been Bacunas bad time-keeping when it comes to training.
That really doesn't surprise me, he just gives out that impression. Wouldn't lose any sleep if he were to leave.
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Should move him in with McCormack. When he hears Ross kicking the gates it's time to go to Bodymoor Heath.
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Part of the reason why we conceded so many late goals during Di Matteo's tenure (in my opinion) is that as well as the mental fragility easily enough associated with a recently relegated side we also looked unfit.
Didn't seem to affect Newcastle. I would say a big difference between us and Newscastle last season was, from the very start, they went into every game knowing they would win. For whatever reason we seemed to go in thinking that maybe we could win. It's been our problem since MON left. Under him, no matter who we played against, the players went in expecting to win (even I did). Can Bruce change this? I thought he had in that really good run of games he had, but then it fell apart.
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Have we seriously been offered money for Bacuna and turned it down?!
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Have we seriously been offered money for Bacuna and turned it down?!
Stunningly, yes.
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Have we seriously been offered money for Bacuna and turned it down?!
Stunningly, yes.
Apparently Reading offered £1.5 but we are holding out for two quid.
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Is this going to be like last year with Sinclair when everyone moans that we don't take the first offer then disappears when we sell the player for more money later on during the window?
£1.5 million will be their starting offer, they'll probably offer more. What's the rush?
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Is this going to be like last year with Sinclair when everyone moans that we don't take the first offer then disappears when we sell the player for more money later on during the window?
£1.5 million will be their starting offer, they'll probably offer more. What's the rush?
No, they wont be back
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If they're not, someone else will be. We could get way more than £1.5 million. I'm not necessarily keen to sell, mind.
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I would have snatched their hands off. Bacuna is a waste of space, offers so very little and would weaken Reading. One of my all time hated players, even more so than Savage and Hodge, at least they put a shift in.
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If you'd have snatched their hands off after an offer of £1.5 million, I'm glad you're not in charge of the club's finances.
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No one is saying he's a great player, but I think he's worth more to us than £1.5m plus £1m or so saved in wages. With him on the bench you have someone you can call on to do a job in 5 or 6 different positions. I kind of think of him as mainly 3rd choice in those positions, but you're only paying 1 player to be 3rd choice in so many. Sell him and you need 3 or 4 players to be the third choices for those positions. Which costs more than you save by selling Bacuna. When you have that spell of injuries/suspensions taking it's toll I always think it's more than useful to have a player that can cover that many positions, especially from the bench, even if he is only an average player.
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Is this going to be like last year with Sinclair when everyone moans that we don't take the first offer then disappears when we sell the player for more money later on during the window?
£1.5 million will be their starting offer, they'll probably offer more. What's the rush?
No, they wont be back
Yeah, like Burnley never turned up ever again with Westwood or Celtic with Sinclair.
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I'd take 500k for him to be honest.
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I would have snatched their hands off. Bacuna is a waste of space, offers so very little and would weaken Reading. One of my all time hated players, even more so than Savage and Hodge, at least they put a shift in.
You hate one of your own players more than Villa Bashing Robbie Savage? Who did Savage put a shift in for that helped us?
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I would have snatched their hands off. Bacuna is a waste of space, offers so very little and would weaken Reading. One of my all time hated players, even more so than Savage and Hodge, at least they put a shift in.
You hate one of your own players more than Villa Bashing Robbie Savage? Who did Savage put a shift in for that helped us?
I don't think 'Never pus a shift in' could be aimed at Bacuna, I always thought he did, even when he had his own supporters on his back.
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I don't understand the dislike of Bacuna.
At times he has appeared to think that he's better than he is but I'd say that's true of most, if not all, players.
His versatility off the bench or during times of injuries / suspensions means that the club can have better but less adaptable players around and, as Mr Shin says, thus saving money and squad places.
He has had the occasional strop but again, so do most other players.
I don't think that anyone is claiming that Bacuna is a player you want in a team challenging for the top half of the Premier League but as a sub / occasional starter in the Championship, I think that he's an acceptable choice.
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Probably one of Lambert's better buys. Although that isn't exactly high praise considering most of the rest.
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Bacuuna is Ok- no more, no less. One of too many we've got that are like that
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I'd take 500k for him to be honest.
You'd take 500k when someone has offered £1.5 million? Can I buy your house, please? I'll give you twenty quid.
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I'd take 500k for him to be honest.
£500k for Bacuna and Grealish is shit?
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The majority which includes me would rather see the back of him .....
He is a footballer with limited ability who believes he his better than he is .....good luck to him but he should take a reality check
Secondly he was part of that wonderful side that totally failed for us
Finally I question his attitude ...cant recall game towards end of last season but we had a free kick close to penalty area Holte End .....he was not allowed to take it and you clearly saw him walk off and proceed to sulk like a little kid
I hold no grudge against him but think if we can get money for him we have plenty of others in his areas
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Bacuuna is Ok- no more, no less. One of too many we've got that are like that
That and he's on a very good wage. Get rid.
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Probably one of Lambert's better buys. Although that isn't exactly high praise considering most of the rest.
Was Benteke his only decent signing?
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Probably one of Lambert's better buys. Although that isn't exactly high praise considering most of the rest.
Was Benteke his only decent signing?
Given some of the insane fees I'd say Vlaar for 3m wasn't too bad. Yes very injury prone and not on a patch of Mellberg, Laursen etc but a few that low for a regular for one of the top international teams (at the time) was very good value.
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I miss Leo's worldy free-kicks. Be good to get them back.
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I don't understand the dislike of Bacuna.
At times he has appeared to think that he's better than he is but I'd say that's true of most, if not all, players.
His versatility off the bench or during times of injuries / suspensions means that the club can have better but less adaptable players around and, as Mr Shin says, thus saving money and squad places.
He has had the occasional strop but again, so do most other players.
I don't think that anyone is claiming that Bacuna is a player you want in a team challenging for the top half of the Premier League but as a sub / occasional starter in the Championship, I think that he's an acceptable choice.
I still remember him going on strike against Brighton, when Hourihane insisted on taking a free kick in front of the Holte. Firstly, he tried to wrestle the ball from Hourihane. When Bruce indicated he wanted Hourihane to take it, he stropped off to the halfway line and did nothing meaningful for several minutes. As in, he stopped trying.
He's all about the haircuts and crap tattoos and yet adds nothing as a footballer, except he is adequate in a variety of positions.
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SELL HIM!
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He wasn't that bad last season.
However he's just one of those that has been with us so long now that I just don't expect us to achieve anything significant if the likes of him and Hutton are starting. Westwood was another before we finally sold him.
All three have Villa losing games in their DNA I'm afraid.
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I'd take 500k for him to be honest.
You'd take 500k when someone has offered £1.5 million? Can I buy your house, please? I'll give you twenty quid.
Hate to gazump you but I'm willing to pay fifteen quid.
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I'd take 500k for him to be honest.
You'd take 500k when someone has offered £1.5 million? Can I buy your house, please? I'll give you twenty quid.
Hate to gazump you but I'm willing to pay fifteen quid.
I'm also happy to pay fifteen quid but I will spread the payments over twenty-five years.
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I bid £14 over 30 years.
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I'm willing to offer £13 with a £6 bonus if we get promoted and an extra £100 if we win the FA Cup before 2057.
So, £13.
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Is he a midfielder? Is he a winger ? is he a full back ?
Nope, he's a 'Bacuna' :)
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I'd take 500k for him to be honest.
You'd take 500k when someone has offered £1.5 million? Can I buy your house, please? I'll give you twenty quid.
Hate to gazump you but I'm willing to pay fifteen quid.
Wouldn't that be gazundering?
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For all his faults and he has many, he still merits a place in the starting line up as much as if not more than the midfielders brought in to supposedly improve us.
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For all his faults and he has many, he still merits a place in the starting line up as much as if not more than the midfielders brought in to supposedly improve us.
Would not surprise me to see him start in central midfield on Saturday.
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For all his faults and he has many, he still merits a place in the starting line up as much as if not more than the midfielders brought in to supposedly improve us.
I agree. He gets a lot of shit on here (and other fan sites) but I've never really understood why. He's technically better than Gabby, Hutton and Baker, has never taken the piss out of the club like the former and makes far less mistakes than the other 2 but because he doesn't fit into exactly the right spot on the 'grumpy but not too grumpy' scale people seem determined to slag him off over everything and go out of their way to find offence in anything he does.
Seeing people sulk about Baker being sold for a decent fee and then moaning at us not accepting a low ball offer for Bacuna is just another case of fans having a very narrow view of what 'putting a shift in' means and being willing to forgive people being poor so long as they fit that view and anyone who doesn't fit is a waster/hollywood/showpony/whatever. I don't think Bacuna is great by any means but given the prices going round right now less than £3-4m for him is taking the piss, much the same as when the rumours about Baker were £2m it felt too low but £4m seemed ok.
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For all his faults and he has many, he still merits a place in the starting line up as much as if not more than the midfielders brought in to supposedly improve us.
I agree. He gets a lot of shit on here (and other fan sites) but I've never really understood why. He's technically better than Gabby, Hutton and Baker, has never taken the piss out of the club like the former and makes far less mistakes than the other 2 but because he doesn't fit into exactly the right spot on the 'grumpy but not too grumpy' scale people seem determined to slag him off over everything and go out of their way to find offence in anything he does.
Seeing people sulk about Baker being sold for a decent fee and then moaning at us not accepting a low ball offer for Bacuna is just another case of fans having a very narrow view of what 'putting a shift in' means and being willing to forgive people being poor so long as they fit that view and anyone who doesn't fit is a waster/hollywood/showpony/whatever. I don't think Bacuna is great by any means but given the prices going round right now less than £3-4m for him is taking the piss, much the same as when the rumours about Baker were £2m it felt too low but £4m seemed ok.
Not sure how Hutton or Baker ever took the piss out the club .....
It would be in his own interests to move on .....I will be in Berkshire on Wednesday if he wants a lift to Reading
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He didn't say they did take the piss, he said "former" meaning Gabby. And makes less mistakes than Hutton and Baker.
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For all his faults and he has many, he still merits a place in the starting line up as much as if not more than the midfielders brought in to supposedly improve us.
Would not surprise me to see him start in central midfield on Saturday.
He will pop up in goal one day
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For all his faults and he has many, he still merits a place in the starting line up as much as if not more than the midfielders brought in to supposedly improve us.
I agree. He gets a lot of shit on here (and other fan sites) but I've never really understood why. He's technically better than Gabby, Hutton and Baker, has never taken the piss out of the club like the former and makes far less mistakes than the other 2 but because he doesn't fit into exactly the right spot on the 'grumpy but not too grumpy' scale people seem determined to slag him off over everything and go out of their way to find offence in anything he does.
Seeing people sulk about Baker being sold for a decent fee and then moaning at us not accepting a low ball offer for Bacuna is just another case of fans having a very narrow view of what 'putting a shift in' means and being willing to forgive people being poor so long as they fit that view and anyone who doesn't fit is a waster/hollywood/showpony/whatever. I don't think Bacuna is great by any means but given the prices going round right now less than £3-4m for him is taking the piss, much the same as when the rumours about Baker were £2m it felt too low but £4m seemed ok.
Not sure how Hutton or Baker ever took the piss out the club .....
They haven't. But then again, Paul doesn't claim that they did.
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I'm willing to offer £13 with a £6 bonus if we get promoted and an extra £100 if we win the FA Cup before 2057.
So, £13.
I'm out, I'm going to buy Bacuna instead.
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Willing to offer £500 right now if we get promoted.
PM me if interested.
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It actually rate him when his mind is set on it can block move the ball and is a decent crosser but on his bad days we all know how poor he can be
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I like him, I see all his bad points too like the free kick strop but maybe it's a sign of how far we've fallen that I see him like others do in the starting eleven as he puts a shift in IMO
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When everyone's on form and fit I'm hoping he may not even make the bench. Lansbury or hourihane should offer more
But I think I might start him on saturday
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When everyone's on form and fit I'm hoping he may not even make the bench. Lansbury or hourihane should offer more
But I think I might start him on saturday
I would say both are better on the ball than him, but they don't offer his mobility which I think could be a deciding factor in him potentially starting on Saturday. I'm beginning to think more and more that if we are going to play 4-4-2, we are going to need a more athletic and dynamic player alongside Whelan and that we might have to look to bring one in as Bacuna is not the long term answer in there.
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At the moment, I'd pick him over Houlihane, hes more mobile and physical. He really needs to improve if he's to make his mark here.
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At the moment, I'd pick him over Houlihane, hes more mobile and physical. He really needs to improve if he's to make his mark here.
I don't think he is good enough on the ball to be a long term fixture in central midfield. His best bet is at right back, but is way down the pecking order in that position.
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At the moment, I'd pick him over Houlihane, hes more mobile and physical. He really needs to improve if he's to make his mark here.
This says more about the success of Bruce's transfers than anything, not many hands up for starting Hogan either.
Bacuna should be no where near the starting X1 by now.
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At the moment, I'd pick him over Houlihane, hes more mobile and physical. He really needs to improve if he's to make his mark here.
I'm not surprised, Hot Lips was born in 1937.
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At the moment, I'd pick him over Houlihane, hes more mobile and physical. He really needs to improve if he's to make his mark here.
I'm not surprised, Hot Lips was born in 1937.
I though she was alda than that
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Would be dubious about him in a four man midfield (with only two central midfielders).
But on the right of a midfield three, he gives us a turn of pace and physicality we otherwise don't possess.
He is capable of putting a good ball in (and putting some utterly dreadful ones in too, in fairness), dropping in to cover the full-back if Elmo is bombing forward and has shown in previous seasons that he can finish from in and around the penalty area.
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Aston Villa midfielder Leandro Bacuna wants to leave the Championship club and was disheartened by a section of the home faithful booing him as he was substituted at the weekend, according to Football Insider.
The 25-year-old was given the nod by Steve Bruce to start the 1-1 draw against Hull City on Saturday evening, with the Curacao international replaced by Andre Green in the 70th minute.
With Bacuna splitting the fans’ opinions due to inconsistency during his time with Villa, he was not treated to the warmest reception upon his substitution.
The report suggests that the former Groningen man is angling for a move to Championship rivals Reading, who are believed to have had an offer for the right-sided midfielder rejected earlier in the summer.
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Its quite simple with Bacuna .....sell him to reading and what ever they offer and get him off the wage bill
He offers AVFC nothing apart from a new hair cut every week
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Brand new season - same old Bacuna
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Aston Villa midfielder Leandro Bacuna wants to leave the Championship club and was disheartened by a section of the home faithful booing him as he was substituted at the weekend, according to Football Insider.
Good
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He's nowhere near good enough to start for us.
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I thought he was fairly average, and any other player that hadn't been made scapegoat of choice wouldn't have got the same reaction. The only justification for booing individuals is if they aren't trying, and I never get that impression with Bacuna. Booing him was a twattish move.
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A side with Bacuna as a regular starter will never get promoted.
I don't even think he's good enough as squad cover. Get rid as soon as possible and find another way of setting the team up if we're struggling with injuries.
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I thought he was fairly average, and any other player that hadn't been made scapegoat of choice wouldn't have got the same reaction. The only justification for booing individuals is if they aren't trying, and I never get that impression with Bacuna. Booing him was a twattish move.
Tend to agree. He lacks quality and composure, but I thought the effort was there.
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I thought he was fairly average, and any other player that hadn't been made scapegoat of choice wouldn't have got the same reaction. The only justification for booing individuals is if they aren't trying, and I never get that impression with Bacuna. Booing him was a twattish move.
I didn't hear any booing when he went off, just cheering which I suppose is worse in some ways. He did play some poor passes yesterday, as did some others, but I suppose there is previous with Bacuna that means he will get singled out more.
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I thought he was fairly average, and any other player that hadn't been made scapegoat of choice wouldn't have got the same reaction. The only justification for booing individuals is if they aren't trying, and I never get that impression with Bacuna. Booing him was a twattish move.
I didn't hear any booing when he went off, just cheering which I suppose is worse in some ways. He did play some poor passes yesterday, as did some others, but I suppose there is previous with Bacuna that means he will get singled out more.
Apparently his name was booed when the team was read out.
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I thought he was fairly average, and any other player that hadn't been made scapegoat of choice wouldn't have got the same reaction. The only justification for booing individuals is if they aren't trying, and I never get that impression with Bacuna. Booing him was a twattish move.
I didn't hear any booing when he went off, just cheering which I suppose is worse in some ways. He did play some poor passes yesterday, as did some others, but I suppose there is previous with Bacuna that means he will get singled out more.
The "previous" seems to be him saying that he'd like to play in the Champions League, much like every other player on the planet. People still bearing a grudge over that non-issue, two years later is ridiculous.
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Even after dropping down a division he hasn't done much to warrant a place in the team, especially as we have other options in midfield. Hourihane is probably wishing he was still at Barnsley.
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I don't care about that. I just care about the fact that despite signing 108 midfielders he still gets picked.
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He's nowhere near good enough to start for us.
He is, and that's a real problem.
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There's the sensible side of me that thinks the booing is unjustified and Bacuna is harshly treated.
But then I think of all the piss takers that have robbed a wage of us over the last few years, including him, and think again of all those supporters that have coughed up fortunes to be let down time and time again, and I see a certain beauty in the fact that they have used the one platform they have to get the message across, and it's been taken.
And the upshot of it is that we won't have to watch one the most hopelessly inconsistent performers I've ever had the misfortune to witness ever again
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There's the sensible side of me that thinks the booing is unjustified and Bacuna is harshly treated.
But then I think of all the piss takers that have robbed a wage of us over the last few years, including him, and think again of all those supporters that have coughed up fortunes to be let down time and time again, and I see a certain beauty in the fact that they have used the one platform they have to get the message across, and it's been taken.
And the upshot of it is that we won't have to watch one the most hopelessly inconsistent performers I've ever had the misfortune to witness ever again
Except the biggest culprit for that is Gabby and he gets hero worship because in his case the fans memories are much shorter.
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Bacuna made his bed and must still firmly lie in it after his 'performance' in the 6-0 against Liverpool. I just can't forget the fact he visibly gave up and couldn't give a fuck that day, therefore he deserves no fan loyalty whatsoever.
Maybe that's what the boo-boys remembered yesterday. Maybe his abject, incapable performance gave them flash-backs.
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There's the sensible side of me that thinks the booing is unjustified and Bacuna is harshly treated.
But then I think of all the piss takers that have robbed a wage of us over the last few years, including him, and think again of all those supporters that have coughed up fortunes to be let down time and time again, and I see a certain beauty in the fact that they have used the one platform they have to get the message across, and it's been taken.
And the upshot of it is that we won't have to watch one the most hopelessly inconsistent performers I've ever had the misfortune to witness ever again
Except the biggest culprit for that is Gabby and he gets hero worship because in his case the fans memories are much shorter.
Correct, to a degree.
Fans don't have to be consistent, and anyway most of those fans have witnessed Gabby being an absolute menace in a very good Villa side, even if it was years ago.
Whereas Bacuna has just been gash from the word go, and has shown little to no improvement in 4 years or so.
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Every time Bacuna has one of his shit games, you think welll thank god i won't have to see him again no before you know it he is back in the team.
Idiotic.
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There's the sensible side of me that thinks the booing is unjustified and Bacuna is harshly treated.
But then I think of all the piss takers that have robbed a wage of us over the last few years, including him, and think again of all those supporters that have coughed up fortunes to be let down time and time again, and I see a certain beauty in the fact that they have used the one platform they have to get the message across, and it's been taken.
And the upshot of it is that we won't have to watch one the most hopelessly inconsistent performers I've ever had the misfortune to witness ever again
Except the biggest culprit for that is Gabby and he gets hero worship because in his case the fans memories are much shorter.
Correct, to a degree.
Fans don't have to be consistent, and anyway most of those fans have witnessed Gabby being an absolute menace in a very good Villa side, even if it was years ago.
Whereas Bacuna has just been gash from the word go, and has shown little to no improvement in 4 years or so.
I agree that, for a lot of our fans, what someone did in the past is more important than what they've done in the last year or so.
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Good riddance. The sooner we rid this club of the rubbish that got us relegated the better. His effort and commitment were pathetic in those last few games before we were relegated. The defence splitting 40 yard backpass, giving up on tracking players, zero concentration and an inane grin. Happily drive him to Reading, but with the money he has earned from us he'd probably be able to buy a private jet to get there.
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Feel sorry for Leo, he's being bullied all over the place. I don't see how he's any worse than the rest of our under-achieving midfield and with the crowd against him he's probably playing within himself more and more.
If Reading up their offer it might be best for everyone he gets a clean break.
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He's a terrible, sulky player who is simply not good enough, regardless of the efforts he puts in. I cannot believe we did not have better options available to us despite injuries. All the players we have signed since Bruce got here and yet he sticks with this shocker of a player.
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Was he really a better option than the three midfielders sat on the bench that bruce had signed?
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Reading can have him for free.
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Feel sorry for Leo, he's being bullied all over the place. I don't see how he's any worse than the rest of our under-achieving midfield and with the crowd against him he's probably playing within himself more and more.
If Reading up their offer it might be best for everyone he gets a clean break.
I agree, just like Westwood his mistakes are magnified and anything he does well is ignored and it got to the point where selling was the only sensible option. I'd let him go but not for a pisstake sum. Lots of fans like to talk about Lambert ruining the value of fringe players by putting them in the bomb squad but then are forcing the club to look at selling Bacuna for less than his value.
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Good riddance. The sooner we rid this club of the rubbish that got us relegated the better. His effort and commitment were pathetic in those last few games before we were relegated. The defence splitting 40 yard backpass, giving up on tracking players, zero concentration and an inane grin. Happily drive him to Reading, but with the money he has earned from us he'd probably be able to buy a private jet to get there.
I was thinking about what to write about Leandro Bacuna. I think you've done it for me my friend.
I'm afraid I can't forgive someone who grinned his way through that abomination of a season that saw us go down.
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Garbage should have never turned down any cash for him. Get him gone and off the wage bill.
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Good riddance. The sooner we rid this club of the rubbish that got us relegated the better. His effort and commitment were pathetic in those last few games before we were relegated. The defence splitting 40 yard backpass, giving up on tracking players, zero concentration and an inane grin. Happily drive him to Reading, but with the money he has earned from us he'd probably be able to buy a private jet to get there.
And if he had gone during the summer of 2016, fine.
But since then: He played well against Sheff Wed away last year, Reading when he came into the side and we won our first away game since 1534 AD and was prob MOTM v Derby at home when Bruce was on thin ice and could have been potted. Those were standout performances, there were plenty of other games when he was solid. He is easily good enough for this level -certainly as back up.
He has a laidback approach, which comes off as not trying at times and can be infuriating. Ditto his composure on the ball. But his reaction to that idiot linesman last season showed he does care when riled.
He was in the team ahead of Hourihane because both played last week and Bacuna looked better.
Getting jeered before he has even stepped out onto the pitch is a bit shit, so we are probably at the stage where it is best for everyone if he moves on.
Odd how he is so inept that it is a manager like Jaap Stam coming in for him though. Surely Yeovil Town or Great Barr Falcons is about his level, based on some of the comments in this thread.
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I thought he was fairly average, and any other player that hadn't been made scapegoat of choice wouldn't have got the same reaction. The only justification for booing individuals is if they aren't trying, and I never get that impression with Bacuna. Booing him was a twattish move.
I didn't hear any booing when he went off, just cheering which I suppose is worse in some ways. He did play some poor passes yesterday, as did some others, but I suppose there is previous with Bacuna that means he will get singled out more.
Apparently his name was booed when the team was read out.
Got to say that I didn't hear any when his name was read out just before kick off. It might have been when the teams were read out before that though.
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I thought he was fairly average, and any other player that hadn't been made scapegoat of choice wouldn't have got the same reaction. The only justification for booing individuals is if they aren't trying, and I never get that impression with Bacuna. Booing him was a twattish move.
I didn't hear any booing when he went off, just cheering which I suppose is worse in some ways. He did play some poor passes yesterday, as did some others, but I suppose there is previous with Bacuna that means he will get singled out more.
The "previous" seems to be him saying that he'd like to play in the Champions League, much like every other player on the planet. People still bearing a grudge over that non-issue, two years later is ridiculous.
There were some other incidents as well though and as evidenced on here there is a widely held view that he isn't good enough. Doesn't excuse booing your own players though.
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Don't forget he 'played' away at Wycombe as well.
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Some of his performances in the premier league run in were a total joke.
I too am surprised we turned down a bid for him. Suppose SB values his workrate and versatility but I'd have moved him on.
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I don't have any problem with that champions league thing, and he was probably misquoted anyway.
My problem is he just isn't very good, and it is giving far too many games to players of his low quality which has contributed greatly to our current lower league irrelevance.
I was at the match yesterday and thought he was poor, but didn't realise just how poor until I watched the TV coverage today.
Green has a fair way to go before convincing me he's going to be good enough, too, but the difference between him and Bacuna languidly misplacing passes was huge.
Get rid.
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If we're going solely on contribution (or lack of) in our relegation season, I would have gladly fucked them all off, save Ayew. Even massive Villa fan Grealish, who offered next to nothing.
Pragmatism dictated that we couldn't get shot of them all though. Even with Tone burning through the TV money like a dose of salts.
So after that, you look at their contribution last year. Bacuna did OK.
But he still has to take the fall for 15/16 in a way that other sinners don't, it seems.
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If we're going solely on contribution (or lack of) in our relegation season, I would have gladly fucked them all off, save Ayew. Even massive Villa fan Grealish, who offered next to nothing.
Pragmatism dictated that we couldn't get shot of them all though. Even with Tone burning through the TV money like a dose of salts.
So after that, you look at their contribution last year. Bacuna did OK.
But he still has to take the fall for 15/16 in a way that other sinners don't, it seems.
Bacuna might've been shit in the relegation run in and early on last season but at least he was fit enough to get into a shirt to be available for selection but Gabby scored goals for us 5-6 years ago and scored against the blues so he's a legend.
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Gabby should have gone too, Blues goal or not.
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
You could replace hims name with Hutton in the bold bit without changing anything else so why doesn't he get the same treatment?
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I am hoping that Wyness is on the phone to Reading asking them if they still want to pay £1.5m for him!
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
You could replace hims name with Hutton in the bold bit without changing anything else so why doesn't he get the same treatment?
You are right, but the Hutton thread isn't near the top of the forum at the moment and he actually had a reasonable game yesterday as opposed to Bacuna. I'd be much happier if we can get rid of both Bacuna and Hutton, but we need cover at right back so getting rid of Bacuna and keeping Hutton would be my choice between the 2 players.
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
You could replace hims name with Hutton in the bold bit without changing anything else so why doesn't he get the same treatment?
You are right, but the Hutton thread isn't near the top of the forum at the moment and he actually had a reasonable game yesterday as opposed to Bacuna. I'd be much happier if we can get rid of both Bacuna and Hutton, but we need cover at right back so getting rid of Bacuna and keeping Hutton would be my choice between the 2 players.
Ok, I'll wait for you to tell Hutton to fuck right off next time he has a bad game then.
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Bacuna should 'fuck right off' because of the many, many reasons already outlined over recent pages; not because of 'one' bad game yesterday, paul_e.
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The first thing I saw him do was run powerfully for about 50 yards (good), then he subsequently rolled a straightforward ten yard pass straight out of touch (not good)
If ever a passage of play summed up a player entirely, that was it.
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Bacuna should 'fuck right off' because of the many, many reasons already outlined over recent pages; not because of 'one' bad game yesterday, paul_e.
I've already said I think he should be sold because it's the right thing for everyone I just don't see why he's singled out for all those things when most of them apply to gabby and hutton (to name 2) but they're fans favourites.
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In a perfect world I'd see the back of Bacuna, Hutton and Gabby...but Villa Park isn't a perfect world at the moment so unfortunately it looks like we're stuck with them for now unless someone like Reading come in and take one of them off our hands...in which case we should snap their hands off and get rid as long (as it's a good deal for us financially). You can also throw Richards, Gardner, McCormack and Armavi into this equation too...with question marks hanging over the heads of Hogan, Lansbury and Hourihane.
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In a perfect world I'd see the back of Bacuna, Hutton and Gabby...but Villa Park isn't a perfect world at the moment so unfortunately it looks like we're stuck with them for now unless someone like Reading come in and take one of them off our hands...in which case we should snap their hands off and get rid as long (as it's a good deal for us financially). You can also throw Richards, Gardner, McCormack and Armavi into this equation too...with question marks hanging over the heads of Hogan, Lansbury and Hourihane.
If only the binmen weren't on strike.
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Why do so many people always get on Hutton's back week after week? He always gives a 100%, never badmouths anyone (even when Lambert consigned hi, to the stiffs) and yesterday, as on many other occasions has a very decent game including setting up Gabby for his goal. I don't get it. Now Bacuna on the other hand .... !!!
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Hutton is 50/50 player. Yes he set up the ball for our goal and went awol on their goal.
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Hutton is 50/50 player. Yes he set up the ball for our goal and went awol on their goal.
It's usually the other way around with Hutton. Solid in defence but goes to pieces when he gets anywhere near the opposition's box.
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Hutton is 50/50 player. Yes he set up the ball for our goal and went awol on their goal.
He was marking two players (where was Elmo, gone missing) but don't let that stop you from slating him, damned if you do, damned if you don't springs to mind!
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Hutton was as good as I've seen him in a Villa shirt yesterday. I think we should sell him immediately though as we've just seen the last assist from him for about 18 months, if his previous record is anything to go by.
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Bacuna handing in a transfer request would never happen as his letter would never reach SB desk just like his awful passing.
I am amazed he is still at the club even more amazed he starts a game , this is why we are a championship side playing the likes of him. I have never seen a player put a five yard pass off the pitch so many times or giving the ball away and he tackles like tinkerbell.
GET RID ASAP
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Hutton is 50/50 player. Yes he set up the ball for our goal and went awol on their goal.
He was marking two players (where was Elmo, gone missing) but don't let that stop you from slating him, damned if you do, damned if you don't springs to mind!
Hutton had a good game yesterday. Sometimes goals aren't really the fault of anyone, the ball just happens to break a certain way in the box and that's the way it goes. Certainly felt that was the case yesterday, Hutton had tucked in to pick up the man at the back post (though his initial clearance wasn't great) and the ball fell in the perfect position for their winger to volley it. He was too deep in the box for Elmohamady to be picking him up , so it was just one of those things.
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Why do so many people always get on Hutton's back week after week? He always gives a 100%, never badmouths anyone (even when Lambert consigned hi, to the stiffs) and yesterday, as on many other occasions has a very decent game including setting up Gabby for his goal. I don't get it. Now Bacuna on the other hand .... !!!
because, as I said:
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
Applies to Hutton just as well as Bacuna. Yes Hutton got an assist yesterday (and had his best game for as long as I can remember) but it's his first for about 2 years and in between he's spent most games giving away possession in the final third.
All that said my point was that both of them are incredibly limited players who have 'running about a lot' as their best attribute but fans love Hutton and can't stand Bacuna and I can't for the life of me work out why.
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Not sure how or why anyone defends Bacuna. He's shit. Any comparison to Hutton or Agbonlahor is a waste of time because we all know none of them should still be here. Gabby a legend for scoring against Blues? No. For once the useless git did his job. All three of the players have held us back, they will continue to do so whilst this manager continues to pick them. Clueless, useless footballers. Bacuna is terrible.
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I felt for him a bit on Saturday. Once again, he was playing out of position on the left hand side. Also, I can't help thinking that had he been subbed when we were 1-0 up, the reaction would have been better than it was when he was subbed at 1-1 but that's the fickleness of some supporters I suppose.
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I felt for him a bit on Saturday. Once again, he was playing out of position on the left hand side. Also, I can't help thinking that had he been subbed when we were 1-0 up, the reaction would have been better than it was when he was subbed at 1-1 but that's the fickleness of some supporters I suppose.
Nice inflammatory use of the word fickle. Well done.
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I thought he was better than Whelan on Saturday, there I've said it
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It says everything about our transfer strategy that we can ''scout'' and sign Lansbury, Hourihane, Bjarnason, Whelan, Tshibola, Jedinak, Adomah and Elmohamady and still find a place for Bacuna, played out of position, playing in a position he's already proven to be inept in.
We just do not learn.
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It says everything about our transfer strategy that we can ''scout'' and sign Lansbury, Hourihane, Bjarnason, Whelan, Tshibola, Jedinak, Adomah and Elmohamady and still find a place for Bacuna, played out of position, playing in a position he's already proven to be inept in.
We just do not learn.
Is the right answer.
Clampy, I'm not fickle, I just don't like him! ;-)
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It says everything about our transfer strategy that we can ''scout'' and sign Lansbury, Hourihane, Bjarnason, Whelan, Tshibola, Jedinak, Adomah and Elmohamady and still find a place for Bacuna, played out of position, playing in a position he's already proven to be inept in.
We just do not learn.
and he gets in front of Green . Green and the new guy should have been on 10/15 mins earlier
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If nothing else is a little unfair to keep throwing Bacuna in only for him to get stick off the crowd
He is at best an average right sided FB / Wing back or winger - not the hub of our attacking model.
Although his attitude is to be admired after all the dogs he got previously (unjustified in my mind) we should let him go as he will never be the player for Villa some of us had hoped for - there is too much history now and every thing he does wrong, every stray pass he is slaughtered for it
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if he plays for us again, you know Bruce has gone totally mad.
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if he plays for us again, you know Bruce has gone totally mad.
the same for Richards
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yes but at least he appears to be nowhere near selection, unlike this wankpot
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Is he still here?
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yes but at least he appears to be nowhere near selection, unlike this wankpot
Only because the fat ****** is injured again. When he is fit, the prick will be in the squad.
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I thought he was better than Whelan on Saturday, there I've said it
Glenn was really disappointing and he should stop swearing and looking so red-faced too.
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I thought he was better than Whelan on Saturday, there I've said it
Glenn was really disappointing and he should stop swearing and looking so red-faced too.
Not sure what was wrong with him on Saturday - I was very much surprised and pleased with the way he played against Watford and thought Bruce may have pulled off a stroke in getting him
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I thought he was better than Whelan on Saturday, there I've said it
Glenn was really disappointing and he should stop swearing and looking so red-faced too.
Not sure what was wrong with him on Saturday - I was very much surprised and pleased with the way he played against Watford and thought Bruce may have pulled off a stroke in getting him
He may still well have.
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He's trained with us for another week, so obviously he's getting worse!
/baddumtish
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It says everything about our transfer strategy that we can ''scout'' and sign Lansbury, Hourihane, Bjarnason, Whelan, Tshibola, Jedinak, Adomah and Elmohamady and still find a place for Bacuna, played out of position, playing in a position he's already proven to be inept in.
We just do not learn.
I have to say, this is one of the best things I've ever read on here and should be tweeted to Wyness and The Doc.
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We already have somebody to do the swearing. John Terry.
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I thought he was better than Whelan on Saturday, there I've said it
Glenn was really disappointing and he should stop swearing and looking so red-faced too.
I agree. After that ridiculous dummy that should have led to them equalising in the first half (up until when he'd been good), he seemed to turn into a sweaty old man.
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because that's basically what he is.
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A sweary old man.
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I thought he was better than Whelan on Saturday, there I've said it
Glenn was really disappointing and he should stop swearing and looking so red-faced too.
Look at the positioning of the midfielders around him on Saturday. Whelan was basically playing centre midfield alone. Every time Whelan looked the pick out a pass he had nobody near him.
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I thought Whelan looked good first half, but as someone else pointed out he was then basically left doing the job of 2/3 in midfield on his own. How Lansbury tired so much at his age i don't understand
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He still made some poor decisions and rash challenges in the first half too. I'm expecting more from him.
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yes but at least he appears to be nowhere near selection, unlike this wankpot
only because hes injured ;(
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I thought Whelan looked good first half, but as someone else pointed out he was then basically left doing the job of 2/3 in midfield on his own. How Lansbury tired so much at his age i don't understand
Whelan was by far the best player on the pitch in the first half, I thought.
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It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Richards join Samba in defence tomorrow night.
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I thought Whelan looked good first half, but as someone else pointed out he was then basically left doing the job of 2/3 in midfield on his own. How Lansbury tired so much at his age i don't understand
Whelan was by far the best player on the pitch in the first half, I thought.
I think the bookings of both Lansbury and Whelan had quite an impact on both their respective games. I agree I thought Whelan was the the far better player
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I thought Whelan looked good first half, but as someone else pointed out he was then basically left doing the job of 2/3 in midfield on his own. How Lansbury tired so much at his age i don't understand
Whelan was by far the best player on the pitch in the first half, I thought.
Really, I thought he struggled to start with and faded, not terrible but nowhere near his performance in the Watford game. Just looked like he was lacking fitness
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I thought he was excellent in the first half and swamped in the second until we got green on down the left to give him some support and an outlet. Whelan that is.
Bacuna was a bag of spanners and should be sold.There are some players that simply carry too much baggage to pull it back with the fans. Bacuna and Richards are in the same boat in that respect.
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It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Richards join Samba in defence tomorrow night.
Or up front
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I thought Whelan looked good first half, but as someone else pointed out he was then basically left doing the job of 2/3 in midfield on his own. How Lansbury tired so much at his age i don't understand
Whelan was by far the best player on the pitch in the first half, I thought.
Really, I thought he struggled to start with and faded, not terrible but nowhere near his performance in the Watford game. Just looked like he was lacking fitness
I agree Whelan wasn't so good for me was disappointed with him and I thought Elmo wasn't so good . Both though were better in pre season . Occasion got to them . Bacuna Scape goat but was expecting more from Whelan and Elmo
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It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Richards join Samba in defence tomorrow night.
Or up front
Gosh
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Elmo looked very average to me
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Bacuna Scape goat but was expecting more from Whelan and Elmo
Behave! I'm just going to assume that you don't know the meaning of "scape goat" because Bacuna deserves all the criticism that comes his way for such an inept performance. It was a genuine relief to see him subbed and I hope I never have to watch him "perform" in a Villa shirt again...although I imagine that will end up being wishful thinking.
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Elmo looked very average to me
I wasnt overly impressed, may be because he was up against his old side and they had him sussed
Looked for the early ball far too often and didnt want to take his man on
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Reading ( guessing ) could be taking Bacuna by the sounds of things. Looking to get rid of some of leftover dross to get Snodgrass possibly?
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Reading ( guessing ) could be taking Bacuna by the sounds of things. Looking to get rid of some of leftover dross to get Snodgrass possibly?
Would be tremendous so probably not.
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edit - Deleted - wrong thread
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I thought he was excellent in the first half and swamped in the second until we got green on down the left to give him some support and an outlet. Whelan that is.
Bacuna was a bag of spanners and should be sold.There are some players that simply carry too much baggage to pull it back with the fans. Bacuna and Richards are in the same boat in that respect.
I think Richards is far ahead of Bacuna who at least turns up (admittedly still poor though)
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Reading ( guessing ) could be taking Bacuna by the sounds of things. Looking to get rid of some of leftover dross to get Snodgrass possibly?
Would be tremendous so probably not.
The commentator said during the game that an unnamed Championship club have made an offer for him. Bruce has just confirmed that in his post match interview.
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Reading ( guessing ) could be taking Bacuna by the sounds of things. Looking to get rid of some of leftover dross to get Snodgrass possibly?
Would be tremendous so probably not.
The commentator said during the game that an unnamed Championship club have made an offer for him. Bruce has just confirmed that in his post match interview.
Wohoo!
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Bruce confirmed someone is in for him.
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Good, he was shit tonight, I didn't notice him touch the ball once.
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Good, he was shit tonight, I didn't notice him touch the ball once.
I thought it was his best game for a while.
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Good stuff, we've got Bjarnasson that can cover all positions badly now so don't really need Bacuna anymore.
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Kind of sorry to see him go because despite the flak he's taken at times, he's never hidden but it's probably for the best all round.
No doubt there'll be another scapegoat along during the season.
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Kind of sorry to see him go because despite the flak he's taken at times, he's never hidden but it's probably for the best all round.
No doubt there'll be another scapegoat along during the season.
For scapegoat read poor footballer?
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Bjarnnason looks like he will take that on
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I think the player referred to as the Icelandic Platt is already in pole position.
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Kind of sorry to see him go because despite the flak he's taken at times, he's never hidden but it's probably for the best all round.
No doubt there'll be another scapegoat along during the season.
Scapegoat my arse. He deserved every bit of stick he's ever received.
File him alongside the likes of Westwood, Lowton, Bennett and co, the utter shit that weren't fit to wear a Villa Shirt.
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Oh no, not the scapegoat thing.
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Is there such a thing as a scapedonkey?
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Apparently SH was hinting at a scapeass!
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Nice couple of free kick goals during his first season.
But thats pretty much it.
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I said when we bought him that he'd be the best of the bunch that Lambert bought at that time, which has turned out to be the case, but it's been more like him being the last bit of a turd that won't leave the side of the pan without brush intervention.
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Nice couple of free kick goals during his first season.
But thats pretty much it.
Yep, that's it. He got a new 5 year deal out of it as well. Madness!
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He got a new contract 2 years after joining, a contract that means we get a fee rather than he'd have left on a free by now. Even if you think he's shit I don't see any madness in that.
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That one season he was probably our third best player after Benteke and Delph. Never got close to it since, I think Elhommady is a better version and there isn't really a point to him being here now.
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A truly awful player. The very epitome of mediocrity. get rid.
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He got a new contract 2 years after joining, a contract that means we get a fee rather than he'd have left on a free by now. Even if you think he's shit I don't see any madness in that.
But we probably paid him more in wages than we'll get in transfer fee for him. Basically he's been a complete waste of cash.
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£1.5m or more and we'll be in profit on the extra time he was here because of his contract, maybe even less than 1.5m as I doubt he was on that much (in footballing terms). Either way though it wasn't madness imo.
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£1.5m or more and we'll be in profit on the extra time he was here because of his contract, maybe even less than 1.5m as I doubt he was on that much (in footballing terms). Either way though it wasn't madness imo.
I'd agree with you if Bacuna had performed well for his wages over these last few years but basically he's done sweet FA.
I'm glad he's leaving.
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£1.5m or more and we'll be in profit on the extra time he was here because of his contract, maybe even less than 1.5m as I doubt he was on that much (in footballing terms). Either way though it wasn't madness imo.
I agree PWS. I think putting him, Westwood and Gardner on longer contracts was done as an attempt to maximise their transfer fee when sold rather than a reflection of their contribution.
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A truly awful player. The very epitome of mediocrity. get rid.
I don't think it's possible to be truly awful and the epitome of mediocrity at the same time.
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Another to add to the collection of players from the last five years or so that I'll struggle to remember even played for us.
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Just for scoring that bizarre one two with yourself v Bitters Leandro I thank you, good luck.
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That Bruce picked him on Saturday to sell him a few days later begs the question, what the fuck are you playing at?
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When he arrived i thought he was one of the poorest players ever to put on our shirt even though he did appear to be trying. Now he's found his level i could see him playing 300+ plus games for a championship/Div1 side. I assume he was another lambert punt on polishing a turd when the reality was we needed to spend more money on a better player
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That Bruce picked him on Saturday to sell him a few days later begs the question, what the fuck are you playing at?
It actually shows that he's not having a lot to do with the sales - he clearly didn;t know Amavi was off if he had to "pull him off the bus" and I suspect if he knew Bacuna was going he would never have picked him, unless he wanted one last chance to look at him, saw it and then said to Wyness "Ok resurrect the deal and get rid of the fucker"
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Well if he needs someone to tell him to get rid of Bacuna and Amavi, maybe we should stop Bruce being involved with buying players as well.
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That Bruce picked him on Saturday to sell him a few days later begs the question, what the fuck are you playing at?
It actually shows that he's not having a lot to do with the sales - he clearly didn;t know Amavi was off if he had to "pull him off the bus" and I suspect if he knew Bacuna was going he would never have picked him, unless he wanted one last chance to look at him, saw it and then said to Wyness "Ok resurrect the deal and get rid of the fucker"
He knows about sales, of course he does. Maybe a deal for Amavi was dead until something happened yesterday to resurrect it . I presume that kind of thing happens a lot.
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of course it does, it's a very fluid, unpredictable process, but in Amavi's case, I hope we're getting a fee and not just loaning him for a year. As for Bacuna, great business if he goes.
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He scored a scorcher in a hammering of Norwich and laid on a great assist in the same game, I think? He was bezzie mates with Benteke when he was here and they linked up to good effect on occasion (lovely cross for the Beast's winner at Spurs under Sherlock for example).
I think he contributed a lot more than people think. Fantastic run and header against Cardiff at VP last season too. I'm not sure who of our current midfielders is far superior, talent of the Spurs kid notwithstanding. I'd take Bacuna's "annoying grin" over Lansburys posturing most of the time to be honest.
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I think he contributed a lot more than people think. Fantastic run and header against Cardiff at VP last season too. I'm not sure who of our current midfielders is far superior, talent of the Spurs kid notwithstanding. I'd take Bacuna's "annoying grin" over Lansburys posturing most of the time to be honest.
Totally agree eamonn. Bacuna has always put a shift in even when he's been at his worst and as I've stated before, even with all his failings he offers more than 'my perfect pony' to the team.
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You know you are shit when people think Bacuna should be in the squad/team.
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The Championship is his level in my opinion. Maybe he was misquoted/misunderstood when he said Champions League. Although, either way it did give us all a laugh.
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He scored a scorcher in a hammering of Norwich and laid on a great assist in the same game, I think? He was bezzie mates with Benteke when he was here and they linked up to good effect on occasion (lovely cross for the Beast's winner at Spurs under Sherlock for example).
I think he contributed a lot more than people think. Fantastic run and header against Cardiff at VP last season too. I'm not sure who of our current midfielders is far superior, talent of the Spurs kid notwithstanding. I'd take Bacuna's "annoying grin" over Lansburys posturing most of the time to be honest.
I tend to agree with this, although - like so many players we've seen in the last few years - he fails to deliver on the promise.
Last Saturday was a perfect example: he did some good work in the first half but inexplicably played three dreadful passes when under relatively little pressure, one of which presented 'ull with a goalscoring opportunity.
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You know you are shit when people think Bacuna should be in the squad/team.
It's true though. Watching last night made me realise how far we have fallen, I won't use the term 'how low have we sunk'. Our best player outfield based on a few games is a Spurs player. A midfielder who is comfortable with the ball, who can move with the ball, who has intelligence with the ball. Our players, midfielders anyway, are sloppy, rarely move freely with the ball, none of them are good enough for the next level up.
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I believe that we have had to increase our offer to the unnamed championship side for them to take Bacuna off us!
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He played a great pass for Cleverley to score against Everton.
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The Championship is his level in my opinion. Maybe he was misquoted/misunderstood when he said Champions League. Although, either way it did give us all a laugh.
Except it didn't. He gave an honest answer to a straight question and it got twisted out of all proportion.
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The Championship is his level in my opinion. Maybe he was misquoted/misunderstood when he said Champions League. Although, either way it did give us all a laugh.
Except it didn't. He gave an honest answer to a straight question and it got twisted out of all proportion.
Yep. It's been posted a few times on here but wasn't the question to Bacuna 'if you come back to Holland, would you like to play at a top club like Ajax or PSV this time?' and Bacuna said 'sure, they play in the Champions League, right'.
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The Championship is his level in my opinion. Maybe he was misquoted/misunderstood when he said Champions League. Although, either way it did give us all a laugh.
Except it didn't. He gave an honest answer to a straight question and it got twisted out of all proportion.
Yep. It's been posted a few times on here but wasn't the question to Bacuna 'if you come back to Holland, would you like to play at a top club like Ajax or PSV this time?' and Bacuna said 'sure, they play in the Champions League, right'.
Yup. But the fantasy version is more fun because it's something else to get angry about.
As someone said earlier, his only crime is not being good enough. Yet that applies to a lot of players in our squad and they're not all being treated with the same hatred. Seems that's all reserved for Bacuna*
*alright, and Richards.
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I love it how things have been so bad with our players in recent years that in trying to come up with positives for someone (for example a player as thoroughly useless as Bacuna has been 90% of his time here) it's always something along the lines of "do you remember that one thing he did in one game that one season?"
Do you all remember when he scored two freekicks in a season?
Do you remember Tonev? That time he got a shot on target? He wasn't so bad I guess.
Since O Neill buggered off, the only player worthy of any significant praise has been Benteke. Other than that we've had a handful who have delivered a solid 7/10 season (Chester for example, the snake) but almost everyone else will be quickly forgotten. Bacuna included. I'll be glad when he's gone. I honestly don't see what he offers. Even at this level.
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I think Bacuna cops an unfair level of flak but I won't be overly concerned to see him go.
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The Championship is his level in my opinion. Maybe he was misquoted/misunderstood when he said Champions League. Although, either way it did give us all a laugh.
If he was to throw his lot in as a RB, I think he could probably be a decent Championship, possibly lower reaches of the Premier League player. As a midfielder, I think he is average to lower Championship standard at best.
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He's the sort of player that is handy to have in the squad as he can cover a number of positions without being good enough to hold down a regular starting place. In a time when we need to trim the squad if a club meets the asking price we would be mad to turn it down.
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He's the sort of player that is handy to have in the squad as he can cover a number of positions without being good enough to hold down a regular starting place. In a time when we need to trim the squad if a club meets the asking price we would be mad to turn it down.
I liked (I think) Jimbo's comment the other day that now we have Bjarnasson to play lots of positions not very well then we don't need Bacuna anymore.
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Bacuna occasionally looks like a footballer.
The Viking lad looks like a fan who has been allowed to play in a charity match.
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The Championship is his level in my opinion. Maybe he was misquoted/misunderstood when he said Champions League. Although, either way it did give us all a laugh.
Except it didn't. He gave an honest answer to a straight question and it got twisted out of all proportion.
Absolutely. I mean, how many players would have said 'No, I don't want to play in the Champions League'?
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Bacuna occasionally looks like a footballer.
The Viking lad looks like a fan who has been allowed to play in a charity match.
Thor will come good this season.
Needs a run of games in his proper position not as a makeshift left back
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I think Bacuna cops an unfair level of flak but I won't be overly concerned to see him go.
My sentiments exactly
There have been a lot worse to have stolen a living off the villa in the last 10 years
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Since O Neill buggered off, the only player worthy of any significant praise has been Benteke. Other than that we've had a handful who have delivered a solid 7/10 season (Chester for example, the snake) but almost everyone else will be quickly forgotten. Bacuna included. I'll be glad when he's gone. I honestly don't see what he offers. Even at this level.
I'd give Kodjia significant praise, and I think Chester was more 8/10 last season but yes, otherwise we really have had an unbelievably shit 'roster' of footballers over the last 5 years. I can't get excited about new signings any more, I'm now just expecting most of them to fail.
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I love it how things have been so bad with our players in recent years that in trying to come up with positives for someone (for example a player as thoroughly useless as Bacuna has been 90% of his time here) it's always something along the lines of "do you remember that one thing he did in one game that one season?"
Do you all remember when he scored two freekicks in a season?
Yes, but in fairness, I thought of the good bits of Bacuna for a few seconds and a handful of things came to mind. I'm sure he's done more good too.
When people say ''he's shit, he's always been shit'' it's both wrong and lazy. He's as mediocre as most of our squad since 2012 but has risen above it enough to suggest that there might be a player in there. Jaap Stam seems to think so anyway.
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Bacuna occasionally looks like a footballer.
The Viking lad looks like a fan who has been allowed to play in a charity match.
Yup
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I think Bacuna cops an unfair level of flak but I won't be overly concerned to see him go.
My sentiments exactly
There have been a lot worse to have stolen a living off the villa in the last 10 years
me too. I won't miss him but given many of the other wankers who have got away with murder playing for us, Bacuna has taken way more than his fair share of flak.
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it's the age old adage - you can't polish a turd. And now he's (hopefully) Reading's turd.
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Roll on Tuesday when bacuna could well be lining up against the villa and have to say any jeering is far more appropriate then however understand that he's been on of the barracked boys due to people feeling he's inadequate displays so it's a win win if he does go . I like to think baker won't get booed just booked.
That said good luck to him and for him to get a gig at reading under stam is a real positive for him being Dutch . Fairs fare he gave some good performance as well as times when not so hot. His period at villa, and remember he's not that old , won't be remember overall as fondly but there were some fond memories and goals- yes too few to mention . And more often than not though was n t good performance s and at time was a liability . Clearly hasn't worked and a fresh start is best . Cheers .
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it's the age old adage - you can't polish a turd. And now he's (hopefully) Reading's turd.
Again I have to disagree a bit. Anywhere in midfield - agree he's not good enough. At right back , however, I think there is something to work with and he'd be more than good enough for the Championship in that position.
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We don't need him as a right back ...we have 3 better already ......
Just go as soon as possible ...but not before Tuesday night as I am sure he would have a stormer
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is he gone yet ?
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There is no rush. Sell him at 10pm next Tuesday.
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There is no rush. Sell him at 10pm next Tuesday.
Sooner we sell him, more chance we get another player in.
Amavi going wont have generated any transfer budget, unless we can do a similar 'buy now and maybe pay in 12 months if he isn't shit' deal ourselves.
Elphick, Bacuna and Gardner would all command fees, albeit small ones. If we get shot of 2-3 of them it might see anpther player coming in, and by my reckoning we are a target man, left winger and left back back-up off an automatic promotion.
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... by my reckoning we are a target man, left winger and left back back-up off an automatic promotion.
Those, and a coherent tactical plan.
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... by my reckoning we are a target man, left winger and left back back-up off an automatic promotion.
Those, and a coherent tactical plan.
If that's his reckoning I'm glad he's not my accountant
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... by my reckoning we are a target man, left winger and left back back-up off an automatic promotion.
Those, and a coherent tactical plan.
Yes but the only way that's happening is if Bruce gets sacked, and that would mean we had already blown promotion again. I am hoping that the team will be effective despite him.
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
You could replace hims name with Hutton in the bold bit without changing anything else so why doesn't he get the same treatment?
You are right, but the Hutton thread isn't near the top of the forum at the moment and he actually had a reasonable game yesterday as opposed to Bacuna. I'd be much happier if we can get rid of both Bacuna and Hutton, but we need cover at right back so getting rid of Bacuna and keeping Hutton would be my choice between the 2 players.
Ok, I'll wait for you to tell Hutton to fuck right off next time he has a bad game then.
Hutton. Fuck right off.
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
You could replace hims name with Hutton in the bold bit without changing anything else so why doesn't he get the same treatment?
You are right, but the Hutton thread isn't near the top of the forum at the moment and he actually had a reasonable game yesterday as opposed to Bacuna. I'd be much happier if we can get rid of both Bacuna and Hutton, but we need cover at right back so getting rid of Bacuna and keeping Hutton would be my choice between the 2 players.
Ok, I'll wait for you to tell Hutton to fuck right off next time he has a bad game then.
Hutton. Fuck right off.
Good man, him and Gabby are like turds that won't flush though.
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Is it too late to bring him back?
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
You could replace hims name with Hutton in the bold bit without changing anything else so why doesn't he get the same treatment?
You are right, but the Hutton thread isn't near the top of the forum at the moment and he actually had a reasonable game yesterday as opposed to Bacuna. I'd be much happier if we can get rid of both Bacuna and Hutton, but we need cover at right back so getting rid of Bacuna and keeping Hutton would be my choice between the 2 players.
Ok, I'll wait for you to tell Hutton to fuck right off next time he has a bad game then.
Hutton. Fuck right off.
That made me laugh, excellent stuff.
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Matt Lowton looks like a pretty good player judging from MOTD.
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Bacuna. Fuck right off.
Simply not good enough at Premier League or Champonship level. Some give him credit for having energy around the pitch but if he's useless on the ball, very much one footed, can't pass to a team mate, gives away possession cheaply, doesn't create anything and gives away unnecessary fouls then he's no good to us.
He made so many mistakes yesterday it was getting ridiculous and it was a relief to see him pulled off almost immediately after a shanked effort that flew over the bar. Hope he gets his wish and a move to another club as I dont want to see him in a Villa shirt again.
Bacuna isnt a scape goat...he's just shit.
You could replace hims name with Hutton in the bold bit without changing anything else so why doesn't he get the same treatment?
You are right, but the Hutton thread isn't near the top of the forum at the moment and he actually had a reasonable game yesterday as opposed to Bacuna. I'd be much happier if we can get rid of both Bacuna and Hutton, but we need cover at right back so getting rid of Bacuna and keeping Hutton would be my choice between the 2 players.
Ok, I'll wait for you to tell Hutton to fuck right off next time he has a bad game then.
Hutton. Fuck right off.
That made me laugh, excellent stuff.
Me too. Fair play KRS, you were absolutely as good as your word.
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Sold to Reading - 4 year deal
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Reading fans must be happy, it's always good to sign a futility player.
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We are delighted to confirm that Leandro Bacuna has finalised a transfer to Reading Football Club from Aston Villa, and joins Jaap Stam’s side on a four-year deal.
A versatile footballer, who can play either in defence or midfield, Bacuna will link up with the Royals for a first training session on Monday morning and will be eligible to face his former side when Villa visit in the Sky Bet Championship on Tuesday evening, subject to the usual ratification from the relevant governing bodies.
Royals manager Jaap Stam said: “Leandro is a player that we have been following for a while – he has played Premier League football and brings quality to us. He is the type of player who can play in several positions in the team – in midfield, at the back, or even sometimes as a winger. He is a player with the right mentality and who wants to go forward; these are the types of players that we want to have.”
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Good luck to him ....best for all parties
I guess he can play Tuesday so no doubt he will score
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Fairwell, Leandro.
You weren't much cop (although that Champions League stick you got was a bit harsh).
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Get your money on him to score at least once Tuesday. Printing money. We'll make him look like a world beater.
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At least the weekend wasn't all bad. Good riddance.
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At least the weekend wasn't all bad. Good riddance.
Indeed. Another trashy post 2010 player finally shown the door.
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As much as he has become a scapegoat it is surely foolhardy to sell him 2 days before we play them? If he scores the winner on Tuesday it'll be open season on Brucie even more
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I'll never forget his screamer against the Bitters.
There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, Leandro
They were shining there for you and me
AVFC, Leandro
We always knew we couldn't lose
There's some regrets
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Leandro
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Good luck to the lad. A change of scenery and a competent manager will probably do him good.
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Aye good luck Leandro. Except when you play us :)
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Good riddance
Jaap stams comments are astounding
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Good riddance
Jaap stams comments are astounding
If only we could see him through Jaap's eyes.
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Good riddance
Jaap stams comments are astounding
If only we could see him through Jaap's eyes.
As we are in the same league we unfortunately just might.
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I bet he will be a perfectly good Championship footballer away from the nonsense that is Aston Villa.
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He's my baby love
He's my turtle dove
He's not one for sitting down to dream
He's the one that makes me want to scream
He's my Lily of Bacuna
My lily and my rose
One for the coffin Dodgers.
Like yours better PWS.
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he was shit and now he's someone else's shit. At least it doesn't take much for Bacuna to get his shit together.
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Couldn't stand him. Terrible player. If he plays on Tuesday is as likely to score as he is to get sent off. No doubts he will get proper coaching now and turn out to be quite good. 2.5m plus add ons is a great deal. Use it to sack Bruce and bring in someone decent.
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Pretty much put the house on him scoring Tuesday now.
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Average, Jack of all trades. He'll do ok there.
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He had talent and should have done better for us. Like so many others in recent years and some that we still have. Probably a question of attitude.
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I have a pretty good idea when he's going to score his first goal for Reading...
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PS: if the reported 3m is accurate we've done pretty well there.
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Glad to see us rid of a bit of dead wood. Now watch the useless tosser score against us on Tuesday.
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Another scapegoat gone, has anyone any idea how he has leapfrogged Richards Gabby Tommy Gary and Alan out of the door?)/
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Great news he's gone (the useless twat)! Long overdue departure. Should have been forced out with the likes of lescott, Guzan, Richardson and nzogbia after relegation. I always felt he was like an extra player for the opposition whenever he played (especially after Benteke left). It's ironic he's gone to reading because he was like a 12th man for them at Villa Park last season especially when he conceded the most blatant of pens right in front of the referee, bolstering readings weakening play-off hopes at the time (at the expense of our outside chances).Gabby and richards now need to be forced out because I fear until their negative influence from the relegation season has been extinguished we will struggle to move forward as a club.
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Another scapegoat gone, has anyone any idea how he has leapfrogged Richards Gabby Tommy Gary and Alan out of the door?)/
because he's not as shit/lazy/cunty/broken* as they are so other teams actually want him.
*Delete as appropriate.
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I bet he will be a perfectly good Championship footballer away from the nonsense that is Aston Villa.
As a RB I think he is more than adequate in this league. I don't think he is good enough on the ball to play in midfield though.
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Good riddance
Jaap stams comments are astounding
If only we could see him through Jaap's eyes.
It's ok, I got your cock joke mate and what a good joke about the urethra it was.
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Another scapegoat gone, has anyone any idea how he has leapfrogged Richards Gabby Tommy Gary and Alan out of the door?)/
I reckon the answer is in your question out of your list who would you say it most sellable?
In order I would say -
Bacuna
Hutton
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Tommy
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Gabby
Gary
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Richards
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Another scapegoat gone, has anyone any idea how he has leapfrogged Richards Gabby Tommy Gary and Alan out of the door?)/
I have an idea about one of the players in your list.
Have a guess who said this in the latter part of last season: "Allan Hutton picks himself".
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£10 on him to score tomorrow.
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Am I allowed to say that I quite liked Bacuna and that he was more than adequate for this division?
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Am I allowed to say that I quite liked Bacuna and that he was more than adequate for this division?
Yes and you're right. We should have flogged Lansbury and Gardner before him. Maybe even Hourihane if he doesn't show something soon.
I wonder if the Dutch link made him loom larger on Stams radar. We should have dragged this out a bit more or had an understanding that he won't feature tomorrow night because immediately (if he plays), he'll be the most motivated player on the pitch. Followed by his ten new team mates obviously.
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£10 on him to score tomorrow.
I'll at least have a quid on it ...
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I never thought a player as poor as Bacuna would divide fans opinion quite like this.
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Am I allowed to say that I quite liked Bacuna and that he was more than adequate for this division?
Played in the correct position, consistently, I think you are right.
His place here, however, became unworkable. His fault and the club's management.
The Champions league comment was largely forgotten.Perhaps not forgotten, but irrelevant.
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Am I allowed to say that I quite liked Bacuna and that he was more than adequate for this division?
Personally I'm glad to see the back of him but you're entitled to say and believe whatever you like...I'm sure he is adequate for this division but quite clearly inadequate for a Villa team aspiring to get promoted. We'll see if he makes the grade in the Reading if they also aspire to get promoted.
I'm fairly certain this transfer would have gone ahead even if it was delayed until Wednesday, so I'm disappointed that the club have allowed this transfer to go through before the Reading game without any clause that he can't play against us, however it comes as no surprise such is the incompetence in and around the club at the moment.
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A woeful player who should never have started a game for us.
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My heart always sank when he was in the team, but I've got a horrible feeling he's going to be decent now and we'll be saying 'wait where the f**k was that guy at the Villa' like we always do.
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Why the fuck have we sold him in time to play against us? Bruce is an absolute fucking idiot.
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I can't believe that he's only 25. He seems to have been stinking out our first time forever - how's he that young?!
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Why the fuck have we sold him in time to play against us? Bruce is an absolute fucking idiot.
Why the fuck does it matter? He's shit.
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My heart always sank when he was in the team, but I've got a horrible feeling he's going to be decent now and we'll be saying 'wait where the f**k was that guy at the Villa' like we always do.
Wouldn't be surprised if Stam can get something out of him, if he does, Stam should be our next manager !!
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Why the fuck have we sold him in time to play against us? Bruce is an absolute fucking idiot.
Why the fuck does it matter? He's shit.
Because whether he's shit or not, we're extremely good at making shit players look better than they are.
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He's always capable of scoring from a free kick. It would be typical Villa if he scored against us. If they select him, the manager clearly rates him more highly than whoever would have played if he wasn't available.
We could have let him train with them but delayed the formality of the signing until Wednesday.
It's massive incompetence not to do so.
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Why the fuck have we sold him in time to play against us? Bruce is an absolute fucking idiot.
Why the fuck does it matter? He's shit.
Because whether he's shit or not, we're extremely good at making shit players look better than they are.
Agbonlahor will score his first goal for Walsall against Villa. Probably be his 52nd match for them.
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If I see any Villa player laughing and joking with him after Tuesdays game if we have lost they can go and jump of the nearest bridge.
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I'm glad he's gone because he brings with him a lot of baggage. As a player though I think he's a better RB than the one we currently have playing.
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He's always capable of scoring from a free kick
Yeah the whole 2 maybe 3 he managed in all the ones he took for us really back that up ;)
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I'm glad he's gone because he brings with him a lot of baggage. As a player though I think he's a better RB than the one we currently have playing.
Good job we've got Bree and De Laet then
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Why the fuck have we sold him in time to play against us? Bruce is an absolute fucking idiot.
Bloody hell you're grumpy today.
If he's shit enough to sell, surely he's shit enough to play against?
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If I see any Villa player laughing and joking with him after Tuesdays game if we have lost they can go and jump of the nearest bridge.
off
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Why the fuck have we sold him in time to play against us? Bruce is an absolute fucking idiot.
Bloody hell you're grumpy today.
If he's shit enough to sell, surely he's shit enough to play against?
I hope you're right. But plenty of our former players were deemed shit enough to sell.
Hopefully he'll have more of a Ridgewell impact than a Vassell one!
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Why the fuck have we sold him in time to play against us? Bruce is an absolute fucking idiot.
Bloody hell you're grumpy today.
If he's shit enough to sell, surely he's shit enough to play against?
I hope you're right. But plenty of our former players were deemed shit enough to sell.
Hopefully he'll have more of a Ridgewell impact than a Vassell one!
We agree!
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Selling a player is only ever a good deal if you get someone in who is better. I wont hold my breath.
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Selling a player is only ever a good deal if you get someone in who is better. I wont hold my breath.
We have already got better surely ?
We don't need to replace him, we're trying to get the players we don't need off the wage bill not replace em with even more. The squad is way too big
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Reading fans are raving about how well Bacuna is playing for them.
Another example of how we have been destroying careers?
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Reading fans are raving about how well Bacuna is playing for them.
Another example of how we have been destroying careers?
I don't think so.
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Didn't Reading win their first game for about six months last night?
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It's possible for players to play well in, generally, unsuccessful teams. Benteke, for instance.
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It's possible for players to play well in, generally, unsuccessful teams. Benteke, for instance.
He'd probably be a better bet on the bench than Bjarnason (faint praise indeed), but wouldn't be in our starting XI as it stands.
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Didn't Reading win their first game for about six months last night?
First home win since they beat us, the day we sold Bacuna to them.
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Reading fans are raving about how well Bacuna is playing for them.
Another example of how we have been destroying careers?
Haven't they been playing him right back? Always thought it was his best position when he was here.
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Missing out on Roberto Carlos and now this. We have appalling luck.
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It's possible for players to play well in, generally, unsuccessful teams. Benteke, for instance.
He's hardly inspiring them to win after win though?
Bacuna had his moments but was just so sloppy/poor in possession to ever be a first choice midfielder unless he was told just to run about and disrupt the opposition which SB seemed to just tell him to most of last season.
I agree he had some good games for us at RB so if he'd been properly coached he could've been a decent player there in the long term.
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He was rubbish and annoying, well shot of him and all the other players we have sold since relegation. I do not miss a single one of them.
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He was rubbish and annoying, well shot of him and all the other players we have sold since relegation. I do not miss a single one of them.
Ashley Westwood seems to get the last 15 minutes of Burnley games, generally coming on for Dufour.
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Think Idrissa Gueye may be the exception to that one, he is a very adequate Premier League player so would have been very good in this league
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Reading fans are raving about how well Bacuna is playing for them.
Another example of how we have been destroying careers?
Haven't they been playing him right back? Always thought it was his best position when he was here.
Agree. I think if he had thrown his lot into playing that position then he could have become a good Championship / possible lower half Premier League level player in that position.
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Think Idrissa Gueye may be the exception to that one, he is a very adequate Premier League player so would have been very good in this league
Hardly pulling up trees for Everton this season though. Could well find his way back to the Championship with them.
Another player that was hard to like, and barely registered a shrug upon leaving.
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Think Idrissa Gueye may be the exception to that one, he is a very adequate Premier League player so would have been very good in this league
Hardly pulling up trees for Everton this season though. Could well find his way back to the Championship with them.
Another player that was hard to like, and barely registered a shrug upon leaving.
Along similar lines the Traore/ Odomha deal is one of the few cases I can remember of a transfer trade working out well for us.
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Think Idrissa Gueye may be the exception to that one, he is a very adequate Premier League player so would have been very good in this league
Hardly pulling up trees for Everton this season though. Could well find his way back to the Championship with them.
Another player that was hard to like, and barely registered a shrug upon leaving.
Decent player but a questionable attitude when things aren't going well.
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Gana did win POTY for Everton last year.
I think pound for pound the player we've sold in recent times who's gone on to have a good career elsewhere is Matt Lowton. Every time I see Burnley, they've been on Sky a fair few times this season, he's generally been very solid.
Just shows in the right formation he can be a good full back at premier league level.
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Leandro's little brother scores amazing own goal for Huddersfield: