Nicklas Helenius

[Pete3206]

Would have liked to have seen more of him, but if he couldn't shift Bowery from the bench, then I wonder if he is much cop anyway.

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

It doesn't baffle me. We've got a manager that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Exactly. I don't trust the judgment of a person who thought bringing Grant Holt in was a good move.

[Villa in Denmark]

1.Helenius didn't have the gumption to make it.

2.He lacked an aggressive streak it seems and obviously didn't settle. That's unfortunately what you get when u pay peanuts sometimes. Did he get a fair crack of the whip? Probably not, but Lambert will have his reasons for that.

3.Perhaps Lambert saw enough by August to realise it would take time for Niklas, and then went ahead with the Kozak deal.

However stories about Helenius struggling to settle were circulating pretty early on last season and continued.
4.His agents not particularly done him many favours. I recall one of his ex coaches being asked to give his opinion on Niklas and how he'd settle. The guy said that for a big man he's not good in the air and he needed to improve his strength at this level, and also IIRC, that he'd have to quicken his decision making on the ball.

5.Now it might be that in another 6months to a year, he might turn it around but if he's not willing to wait and bide his time, then good luck to him. He can go back to anonymity in Denmark.

6.It wasn't to be. This experiment failed. Goodbye, good luck, not good enough. He clearly doesn't have enough aggression or quite the arrogance to make it in this league, whereas conversely, arrogance has taken Bentdner quite far.

Fucking Hell Tom, there's a royal boat load of supposition and pre judgement in that.

1.Lack of gumption? How do you know?
2. Lack of aggression? Again not seen enough of him to know.  When he was getting debagged against Spurs he didn't exactly lie down and die.
He wasn't afraid to put himself about for Aalborg the year before we bought him. (his first season in their first team.)
3. My recollection was that Kodak was someone Lambert had been watching for a while and did the deal, because he was available and supposedly had no bearing on other transfers.
4. I'm not sure if the bit about his agent and a former coach are supposed to go together.  Regardless it sounds like the usual trap of thinking as soon as someone's over 6 feet tall, they must be Mark Hatley reborn. 
I'll give you that his agent can be a bit of a gobshite, but nothing compared to Benteke's.
5 Has he said he wants out? I've only heard him say that at his age it's important to be playing games. 
You can't complain about our youngsters being stifled due to lack of first team football and then have a go because someone a little but older,but still younger than Gardner, says that that's exactly what he needs.
6. Not good enough. Again how can we judge.

We simple don't know what has and hasn't been going on at Bodymoor, other than Culverhouse and Karsa were so far out of order that they were sacked, and so far no word of an appeal and or compo.  Almost unheard of in football today, so how bad must their behaviour / actions have been?

For what it's worth, his agent gave an interview at the start of June, which I've only just looked up when this thread resurfaced.
His agent says that he's been told that he can find a new club if he wants, but that Aalborg can't afford to take him back.
He also says that it's not only footballing reasons that it's gone wrong. Another "victim" of the gruesome twosome? If it was bullying they were sacked for, I would guess that someone like Helenius would be a likely candidate.

Young and first time in a foreign environment, then add in quietly spoken, polite and reasonably well educated, and a playing style which doesn't fit in with height presumptions.  Ideal target?

[silhillvilla]

The only thing I can remember him doing is losing his shorts v spurzzz

[Dante Lavelli]

It doesn't baffle me. We've got a manager that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Exactly. I don't trust the judgment of a person who thought bringing Grant Holt in was a good move.

That's a bit over the top isn't it?  He may not have turned us into Barca but he didn't make us any worse.  As people said at the time, the chances are he was appointed as a cheer leader for Lambert as much as a player and we stayed up, which some what validates the loan signing.

[Villa in Denmark]

It doesn't baffle me. We've got a manager that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Exactly. I don't trust the judgment of a person who thought bringing Grant Holt in was a good move.

That's a bit over the top isn't it?  He may not have turned us into Barca but he didn't make us any worse.  As people said at the time, the chances are he was appointed as a cheer leader for Lambert as much as a player and we stayed up, which some what validates the loan signing.

A view with even more credibility after what we've subsequently learned about Culverhouse and Karsa.

[supertom]

1.Helenius didn't have the gumption to make it.

2.He lacked an aggressive streak it seems and obviously didn't settle. That's unfortunately what you get when u pay peanuts sometimes. Did he get a fair crack of the whip? Probably not, but Lambert will have his reasons for that.

3.Perhaps Lambert saw enough by August to realise it would take time for Niklas, and then went ahead with the Kozak deal.

However stories about Helenius struggling to settle were circulating pretty early on last season and continued.
4.His agents not particularly done him many favours. I recall one of his ex coaches being asked to give his opinion on Niklas and how he'd settle. The guy said that for a big man he's not good in the air and he needed to improve his strength at this level, and also IIRC, that he'd have to quicken his decision making on the ball.

5.Now it might be that in another 6months to a year, he might turn it around but if he's not willing to wait and bide his time, then good luck to him. He can go back to anonymity in Denmark.

6.It wasn't to be. This experiment failed. Goodbye, good luck, not good enough. He clearly doesn't have enough aggression or quite the arrogance to make it in this league, whereas conversely, arrogance has taken Bentdner quite far.

Fucking Hell Tom, there's a royal boat load of supposition and pre judgement in that.

1.Lack of gumption? How do you know?
2. Lack of aggression? Again not seen enough of him to know.  When he was getting debagged against Spurs he didn't exactly lie down and die.
He wasn't afraid to put himself about for Aalborg the year before we bought him. (his first season in their first team.)
3. My recollection was that Kodak was someone Lambert had been watching for a while and did the deal, because he was available and supposedly had no bearing on other transfers.
4. I'm not sure if the bit about his agent and a former coach are supposed to go together.  Regardless it sounds like the usual trap of thinking as soon as someone's over 6 feet tall, they must be Mark Hatley reborn. 
I'll give you that his agent can be a bit of a gobshite, but nothing compared to Benteke's.
5 Has he said he wants out? I've only heard him say that at his age it's important to be playing games. 
You can't complain about our youngsters being stifled due to lack of first team football and then have a go because someone a little but older,but still younger than Gardner, says that that's exactly what he needs.
6. Not good enough. Again how can we judge.

We simple don't know what has and hasn't been going on at Bodymoor, other than Culverhouse and Karsa were so far out of order that they were sacked, and so far no word of an appeal and or compo.  Almost unheard of in football today, so how bad must their behaviour / actions have been?

For what it's worth, his agent gave an interview at the start of June, which I've only just looked up when this thread resurfaced.
His agent says that he's been told that he can find a new club if he wants, but that Aalborg can't afford to take him back.
He also says that it's not only footballing reasons that it's gone wrong. Another "victim" of the gruesome twosome? If it was bullying they were sacked for, I would guess that someone like Helenius would be a likely candidate.

Young and first time in a foreign environment, then add in quietly spoken, polite and reasonably well educated, and a playing style which doesn't fit in with height presumptions.  Ideal target?

I think the trouble is that we've heard 3-4 times from his agent over the course of last season and each time he said Helenius was struggling to settle. Even pretty early on in the season Lambert came out and said it was taking Helenius (and I believe he mentioned Tonev too) a while to settle here. Whether that meant culturally, or in terms of training or both.

Again, I've no doubt the boys got talent, but unless he, and we are willing to play the long game, he may just not be good enough for the Prem.

Granted if you're 6ft you don't have to be Mark Hately, but if you're 6ft plus for Villa at the moment, you do have to be. Not Nics fault, but that's just the way it goes. That's why Bowery was still ahead in the pecking order and why Holt came in. It's also hard for beanpole strikers who aren't brilliant in the air or physically, to have an impact in the Prem. It took Crouch a while to really become an effective player at this level.

I'm only guessing regarding gumption but I base that on what we've heard from his agent and Lambert, and indeed by the fact he's been well down the pecking order all season.

In defense of Helenius though I'll say that sometimes it's hard to know how a player will cope till you throw them in. Likewise, after he scored against Sheff Utd, he probably warranted a few more appearances in the games following but he hasn't appeared since.

Still he's only had 3 appearences in the Premiership. I'm no fan of Lambert by any means but I'm certainly not going to put that down to Lambert fucking up for example. He's obviously had his reasons. Entirely fair, possibly not, but justified? Probably. The Gladiator was clearly a long way from being ready. If it's not an ability issue, which I don't think it is, it has to be a mental, attitude or physical issue.

Strike him up in the Berson column unfortunately. Like Berson I really wanted him to succeed and he showed very brief glimpses of being a potentially useful player. Ironically perhaps if Helenius had been a bit more of an arrogant, self important toss piece like Bendtner, he might have had more impact.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Even the "unsettled" stuff does not explain why on earth he was not played for the last couple of games. We then knew we were safe, so why not play the lad? Instead we played Holt and Bowery who we were selling in a couple of weeks.

He didn't even make the bench ahead of Grealish & Robinson.

I just don't get it.

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

It doesn't baffle me. We've got a manager that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Exactly. I don't trust the judgment of a person who thought bringing Grant Holt in was a good move.

That's a bit over the top isn't it?  He may not have turned us into Barca but he didn't make us any worse.  As people said at the time, the chances are he was appointed as a cheer leader for Lambert as much as a player and we stayed up, which some what validates the loan signing.

I dunno. The Grant Holt signing really annoyed me and it still does if I'm honest. Bringing him to Aston Villa at that stage of his career was embarrassing.

Anyway, Helenius deserves a chance. No idea what's gone on there, assume it's Lambert making another stupid decision.

[supertom]

Even the "unsettled" stuff does not explain why on earth he was not played for the last couple of games. We then knew we were safe, so why not play the lad? Instead we played Holt and Bowery who we were selling in a couple of weeks.

He didn't even make the bench ahead of Grealish & Robinson.

I just don't get it.

I guess we'll never know. I would imagine Robinson and Grealish also earned their places and caught Lamberts eye, be it on loan or in the 2nd string.
The thing is, and only those who regularly went to see the reserve side will know for sure, but you hardly ever heard of Helenius standing out in a game for the U-21's. Robinson on the other was making waves most of the season.

Whether Helenius goes on to be successful back in Europe and for his national side, like a certain Mr Balaban, remains to be seen.

[Gregorys Boy]

As a back up striker or maybe starter in the early cup games he may still have something, so I am happy to keep him around for now, certainly prefer him than Holt.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

It doesn't baffle me. We've got a manager that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Exactly. I don't trust the judgment of a person who thought bringing Grant Holt in was a good move.

Just remind yourself of the Bradford game. He made Mike Bassett look like some visionary from the future.

[paul_e]

Even the "unsettled" stuff does not explain why on earth he was not played for the last couple of games. We then knew we were safe, so why not play the lad? Instead we played Holt and Bowery who we were selling in a couple of weeks.

He didn't even make the bench ahead of Grealish & Robinson.

I just don't get it.

I guess we'll never know. I would imagine Robinson and Grealish also earned their places and caught Lamberts eye, be it on loan or in the 2nd string.
The thing is, and only those who regularly went to see the reserve side will know for sure, but you hardly ever heard of Helenius standing out in a game for the U-21's. Robinson on the other was making waves most of the season.

Whether Helenius goes on to be successful back in Europe and for his national side, like a certain Mr Balaban, remains to be seen.

I don't think he played in many, just a couple of short sub appearances from what I remember reading.

[Phil from the upper holte]

It was a complete waste of time and money again by the looks of it

[Dante Lavelli]

It was a complete waste of time and money again by the looks of it

Thankfully not very much though which is the idea with these 'gamble' type signings. 

I'm convinced if we were splurging more cash on bigger transfers - which we should be doing - that these 1m signings would not register. As we're signing so few recognised players we over watch the Youtube footage and expect that form to be replicated in the Prem ignoring the fact that at the prices we're paying the likelihood of them being good enough is v slim.

It'll be even harder for any such signing this season as I think Lambert has exhausted the good will which he had last summer (from a strong finish to the previous season).  Any bargain buys this summer will be derided as they're deemed to be part of a failed strategy.  The point being that we should have always had a more balanced transfer strategy.