Lambert: I want to build a top team

[dave.woodhall]

What exactly did Houllier do that was so wrong?

[pauliewalnuts]

One thing Houllier did do was put his foot in his mouth in the most arrogantly dismissive way possible several times.

During the McLeish year, I frequently found it embarassing watching the way we played on the pitch. In the Houllier year, the embarassment was frequently off his pitch, with his various clangers.

One thing I'll say for Lambert is he always, always shows respect for, and understanding of, the club when he talks about it. Houllier sounded like he thought we should be grateful to him for taking the job.

I had a lot of time for him in some respects, but he really was an arrogant bastard with an incredibly high opinion of himself.

[rob_bridge]

What exactly did Houllier do that was so wrong?

Turning a Top 6 side (from previous season) into relegation scrappers in the space of 15-20 games, alienating numerous experienced players unnecessarily, not being fit for the job physically, sending a Villa team out to lose in the FA Cup (the Holy Grail for many of us) v Cit-eh after That Lot had won a trophy (after beating us on th way)  Robert Pires taxi service whilst telling others to move close to West Mids, Anfield love in with his previous employees (who sacked him) to the detriment of his current ones, hiring failed coach/manager McAllister as his stooge. Excuses after losing to Man You away was similar to TSm last year. Oh and he had MON's level of spending in terms of transfer and wages as we needed panic buys after he alienated senior players. And in the end he resorted to O'Neills formation and to an extent tactics in any case.

Other than that he was just fine.

[dave.woodhall]

As has been explained many times before, we finished ninth. That's a drop of three places despite all the upheaval and injuries of the season. What he did at Anfield was similar to Graham Taylor when he came back here with Watford, and nobody complained about that. Pires was a short-term signing, so it didn't really matter what arrangements he had. Alienating players - are these the ones who assaulted the Villa legend? If so, surely you would agree that they needed more than alienating. I always find the angst about the FA Cup amusing when you bear in mind that we take it so seriously our gates in the competition are always much lower than for league games and our annual cup eliminations under O'Neill were always followed by a lengthy debate on here about how cups don't matter. And as for the historical revisionism I started with, nothing exemplifies that more than the supposed 'panic buys' of January 2011, which included a player we'd been after for years at a price which was regarded as a bargain then, a loan signing who did well for us and two others who were discarded prematurely by a subsequent manager.

[rob_bridge]

As has been explained many times before, we finished ninth. That's a drop of three places despite all the upheaval and injuries of the season. What he did at Anfield was similar to Graham Taylor when he came back here with Watford, and nobody complained about that. Pires was a short-term signing, so it didn't really matter what arrangements he had. Alienating players - are these the ones who assaulted the Villa legend? If so, surely you would agree that they needed more than alienating. I always find the angst about the FA Cup amusing when you bear in mind that we take it so seriously our gates in the competition are always much lower than for league games and our annual cup eliminations under O'Neill were always followed by a lengthy debate on here about how cups don't matter. And as for the historical revisionism I started with, nothing exemplifies that more than the supposed 'panic buys' of January 2011, which included a player we'd been after for years at a price which was regarded as a bargain then, a loan signing who did well for us and two others who were discarded prematurely by a subsequent manager.

Finished 9th with same/less points than Blues year earlier with TSM. I was bothered by FA Cups exits. The Citeh exit was farcical.

They were still panic buys by definition because of the circumstances.I was all for Bent but please don't accuse all of us of revisionism. I wanted Houllier out after the Sunderland  game and definitely after the Wolves game - inadvertenly he was soon gone anyway.

It's up to the Watford fans to complain when GT came back not our fans - Liverpool fans loved it. Pires it did matter after he made it clear others (quite rightly) should move nearer but jeeps let's have some consitency, not treat another has been like royalty

Those who may have assaulted the Villa legend were already alienated and were still brought back to the fold by Houllier and McAllister when the replacements didn't look good enough.

I'll agree to disagree with you Dave on this. I've been reading your excellent periodicals since early 1990's, watched you on Central TV having decent debates with Ellis sychophants and respect your opinion.

[tomd2103]

As has been explained many times before, we finished ninth. That's a drop of three places despite all the upheaval and injuries of the season. What he did at Anfield was similar to Graham Taylor when he came back here with Watford, and nobody complained about that. Pires was a short-term signing, so it didn't really matter what arrangements he had. Alienating players - are these the ones who assaulted the Villa legend? If so, surely you would agree that they needed more than alienating. I always find the angst about the FA Cup amusing when you bear in mind that we take it so seriously our gates in the competition are always much lower than for league games and our annual cup eliminations under O'Neill were always followed by a lengthy debate on here about how cups don't matter. And as for the historical revisionism I started with, nothing exemplifies that more than the supposed 'panic buys' of January 2011, which included a player we'd been after for years at a price which was regarded as a bargain then, a loan signing who did well for us and two others who were discarded prematurely by a subsequent manager.

Finished 9th with same/less points than Blues year earlier with TSM. I was bothered by FA Cups exits. The Citeh exit was farcical.

They were still panic buys by definition because of the circumstances.I was all for Bent but please don't accuse all of us of revisionism. I wanted Houllier out after the Sunderland  game and definitely after the Wolves game - inadvertenly he was soon gone anyway.

It's up to the Watford fans to complain when GT came back not our fans - Liverpool fans loved it. Pires it did matter after he made it clear others (quite rightly) should move nearer but jeeps let's have some consitency, not treat another has been like royalty

Those who may have assaulted the Villa legend were already alienated and were still brought back to the fold by Houllier and McAllister when the replacements didn't look good enough.

I'll agree to disagree with you Dave on this. I've been reading your excellent periodicals since early 1990's, watched you on Central TV having decent debates with Ellis sychophants and respect your opinion.

Don't forget the League Cup exit at St. Andrew's as well!!

[Risso]

As has been explained many times before, we finished ninth. That's a drop of three places despite all the upheaval and injuries of the season. What he did at Anfield was similar to Graham Taylor when he came back here with Watford, and nobody complained about that. Pires was a short-term signing, so it didn't really matter what arrangements he had. Alienating players - are these the ones who assaulted the Villa legend? If so, surely you would agree that they needed more than alienating. I always find the angst about the FA Cup amusing when you bear in mind that we take it so seriously our gates in the competition are always much lower than for league games and our annual cup eliminations under O'Neill were always followed by a lengthy debate on here about how cups don't matter. And as for the historical revisionism I started with, nothing exemplifies that more than the supposed 'panic buys' of January 2011, which included a player we'd been after for years at a price which was regarded as a bargain then, a loan signing who did well for us and two others who were discarded prematurely by a subsequent manager.

Finished 9th with same/less points than Blues year earlier with TSM. I was bothered by FA Cups exits. The Citeh exit was farcical.

They were still panic buys by definition because of the circumstances.I was all for Bent but please don't accuse all of us of revisionism. I wanted Houllier out after the Sunderland  game and definitely after the Wolves game - inadvertenly he was soon gone anyway.

It's up to the Watford fans to complain when GT came back not our fans - Liverpool fans loved it. Pires it did matter after he made it clear others (quite rightly) should move nearer but jeeps let's have some consitency, not treat another has been like royalty

Those who may have assaulted the Villa legend were already alienated and were still brought back to the fold by Houllier and McAllister when the replacements didn't look good enough.

I'll agree to disagree with you Dave on this. I've been reading your excellent periodicals since early 1990's, watched you on Central TV having decent debates with Ellis sychophants and respect your opinion.

And the main reason we  ended up finishing 9th were the games we won under McAllister while Houllier was ill and had nothing to do with the team.  But that 9th place also disguises the fact that for most of the season we were firmly ensconced in the bottom few places, and after losing to Wolves in as dreadful a game as I've ever seen, relegation looked a real possibility.

[dave.woodhall]

Does it really matter how many points we got? I'm sure teams have finished second with more than we did in 1981 yet we still won the league. The City decision was wrong - I said so at the time and still don't understand it now, but my real anger is reserved for the situation which has made cup competitions less important than league placing. I fail to see how signing players who improved the team could be seen as panic.

Houllier came into a situation he had to get a grip of quickly. In some areas he tried to act too quickly, and I certainly believe he was reminding some players that they were at a football club not a holiday camp. A good point was made that he appeared to behave like a consultant rather than an employee and there might be some truth in that; one man's disrespect is another man's dispassionate view. We'll never know what he could have achieved or even what he was trying to do but he, like Sir Graham II, arrived at a time when we could no longer continue in the way that we had under the previous manager. Talking of which, it's ironic that of the many charges levelled at Doug, nobody ever accuses him of spending money we couldn't afford in the later Gregory days, when it could be argued that the financial situation was worse than it is now.

[PeterWithesShin]

How does where small heath finished a year previously have anything to do with us finishing 9th?

Surely by that argument you could claim every January transfer is a panic buy? Let's remember that if was the first transfer window Houllier had.

As for Pires, i'm sure many businesses have different rules for long term and short term staff.

[Risso]

Does it really matter how many points we got? I'm sure teams have finished second with more than we did in 1981 yet we still won the league. The City decision was wrong - I said so at the time and still don't understand it now, but my real anger is reserved for the situation which has made cup competitions less important than league placing. I fail to see how signing players who improved the team could be seen as panic.

Houllier came into a situation he had to get a grip of quickly. In some areas he tried to act too quickly, and I certainly believe he was reminding some players that they were at a football club not a holiday camp. A good point was made that he appeared to behave like a consultant rather than an employee and there might be some truth in that; one man's disrespect is another man's dispassionate view. We'll never know what he could have achieved or even what he was trying to do but he, like Sir Graham II, arrived at a time when we could no longer continue in the way that we had under the previous manager. Talking of which, it's ironic that of the many charges levelled at Doug, nobody ever accuses him of spending money we couldn't afford in the later Gregory days, when it could be argued that the financial situation was worse than it is now.

In what way could it be argued that the financial position was worse?

[dave.woodhall]

Does it really matter how many points we got? I'm sure teams have finished second with more than we did in 1981 yet we still won the league. The City decision was wrong - I said so at the time and still don't understand it now, but my real anger is reserved for the situation which has made cup competitions less important than league placing. I fail to see how signing players who improved the team could be seen as panic.

Houllier came into a situation he had to get a grip of quickly. In some areas he tried to act too quickly, and I certainly believe he was reminding some players that they were at a football club not a holiday camp. A good point was made that he appeared to behave like a consultant rather than an employee and there might be some truth in that; one man's disrespect is another man's dispassionate view. We'll never know what he could have achieved or even what he was trying to do but he, like Sir Graham II, arrived at a time when we could no longer continue in the way that we had under the previous manager. Talking of which, it's ironic that of the many charges levelled at Doug, nobody ever accuses him of spending money we couldn't afford in the later Gregory days, when it could be argued that the financial situation was worse than it is now.

In what way could it be argued that the financial position was worse?

Because the money wasn't owed to our owner.

[rob_bridge]

How does where small heath finished a year previously have anything to do with us finishing 9th?

Surely by that argument you could claim every January transfer is a panic buy? Let's remember that if was the first transfer window Houllier had.

As for Pires, i'm sure many businesses have different rules for long term and short term staff.

Yep and it certainly causes friction. Especially if seen as place person.

[pauliewalnuts]

I appreciate the "the table doesn't lie" approach, but I thought our final finish that Houllier season was immensely flattering. We spent most of the season in the relegation fight. I appreciate it is the final placing that matters, but until that run of form under McAllister, we were pretty dreadful.

That Sunderland match at home was one of the most depressing matches I've ever seen at Villa Park, right up there with anything from last season or this.

We looked like we didn't even know what we were trying to do, and whatever it was, we failed in doing it.

[PeterWithesShin]

How does where small heath finished a year previously have anything to do with us finishing 9th?

Surely by that argument you could claim every January transfer is a panic buy? Let's remember that if was the first transfer window Houllier had.

As for Pires, i'm sure many businesses have different rules for long term and short term staff.

Yep and it certainly causes friction. Especially if seen as place person.

Que?

[rob_bridge]

Does it really matter how many points we got? I'm sure teams have finished second with more than we did in 1981 yet we still won the league. The City decision was wrong - I said so at the time and still don't understand it now, but my real anger is reserved for the situation which has made cup competitions less important than league placing. I fail to see how signing players who improved the team could be seen as panic.

Houllier came into a situation he had to get a grip of quickly. In some areas he tried to act too quickly, and I certainly believe he was reminding some players that they were at a football club not a holiday camp. A good point was made that he appeared to behave like a consultant rather than an employee and there might be some truth in that; one man's disrespect is another man's dispassionate view. We'll never know what he could have achieved or even what he was trying to do but he, like Sir Graham II, arrived at a time when we could no longer continue in the way that we had under the previous manager. Talking of which, it's ironic that of the many charges levelled at Doug, nobody ever accuses him of spending money we couldn't afford in the later Gregory days, when it could be argued that the financial situation was worse than it is now.

Well he wasn't hired as a consultant was he? . Has he been it would have been (slighly) less of an issue and he would still have been shit for what £5m?. He was hired as a manager - organiser, coach, spokesperson, recruiter motivator. Multiple responsibilities. He was very bad at most.  Houllier got sacked by LFC for finishing nearer relegation than champions despite spending more than Wenger or Ferguson overall. In fact IIRC DOLs team ran his close and O'Leary managed 6th from a similar position in January (at Villa) with tighter purse strings in 2004.