Manchester United vs Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[WALTERS WARRIORS]

To me Vlaar is not a player who is going to get better at his age. For someone of his size he is very poor at winning crucial challenges in the air. Baker is strong in the air but has poor disribution. Bennet is streets away from being the finished article. If we survive all three need replacing as first team starters, Baker is improving though and could possibly make it next to a dominating experienced CB .........

[mr woo]

Dont be fooled. There is absolutely no doubt Utd were going easy on us in that second half. Anyone who says that cannot and does not happen in professional football is wrong.

There are several examples of contrived results in world cup qualifying groups.
I also recall a Swansea player being quoted on the subject after their Bradford final, using words along the lines of having respect and being professional  towards lesser opposition.

After all, the only other explanation for our improvement is that El Ahmadi has discovered the talent to stifle a Championship winning side on his tod.
Unfortunately his previous 20 appearances would suggest otherwise.

(Piss taking apart, I thought he did well, mostly because he finally appears to have discovered how to pass forwards)

[olaftab]

Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results

Can't see anything. Blank screen however I refer you to pictures on page 15 PW post. Thanks.

[paul_e]

Saunders heroes - you can't see them getting better - on average outfield players are at their best at 28, is the general belief, our average age is 23, i'd be amazed if a fair number of our players don't improve a lot in the next few years.

2 of the goals were offside, even Gary Neville (lifelong united fan and ex-player) admitted they were, using all the technology sky have available.  That's bad luck however you look at it.  When 1 of those offside goals comes 80seconds into the game it's a kick in the bollocks, to treat it any other way is downright negative.  After the first they did, I agree, dominate us for most of the first half, but that said we should have gone 1-1 a minute or so before their 2nd, Benteke will be very disappointed with that miss.

Then in the 2nd half, they didn't play as well, but I doubt many teams could put in 2 halves of what they did in the first, they worked their socks off to make sure they sealed the league at home, there is no way they could've kept that up.  So the 2nd half was a combination of them having to take it down a level and us stepping up a level.  I don't get why anyone would want to not see that, we had the majority of the possession and shots in the 2nd half, it was only a superb 2nd half from Phil Jones (I thought he was man of the match, RVP got the plaudits for his hat-trick but Jones was immense for 90minutes) that stopped us getting on the board.

Oh 1 last point, I've read a couple of comments about Lowton being skinned by a 40 year old, reign that shit in, he was skinned by a guy who is easily the best player in the premier league era, who is the cornerstone of a side who've won 13 titles out of 21, giving a kid shit over that is crazy, sometimes truly great players do great things, even at 40 Giggs has got excellent balance and close control, there's no great shame in him going past you.

[Chris Smith]

We wouldn't have struggled so much this year had we made the right signings in January.

Sorry but that is incorrect. Since January we have  played 10 games lost 4 drawn 2 won 4  14 points. That is  not "struggled"!

14 points from 30 is better than it was for chunks of the season, but it's hardly brilliant, is it?

We have also continued to look frail defensively.

It extrapolates to more than 50 points over 38 games and probably a top half finish. Not brilliant but decent enough. Sadly, we were so shaky earlier in the season that it's still touch and go but it does put a question mark against the January transfer window argument. We might have made signings to improve us but equally they might have taken time to settle, as mid season signings often do, and made little discernible difference. 

[villan1975]

Saunders heroes - you can't see them getting better - on average outfield players are at their best at 28, is the general belief, our average age is 23, i'd be amazed if a fair number of our players don't improve a lot in the next few years.

2 of the goals were offside, even Gary Neville (lifelong united fan and ex-player) admitted they were, using all the technology sky have available.  That's bad luck however you look at it.  When 1 of those offside goals comes 80seconds into the game it's a kick in the bollocks, to treat it any other way is downright negative.  After the first they did, I agree, dominate us for most of the first half, but that said we should have gone 1-1 a minute or so before their 2nd, Benteke will be very disappointed with that miss.

Then in the 2nd half, they didn't play as well, but I doubt many teams could put in 2 halves of what they did in the first, they worked their socks off to make sure they sealed the league at home, there is no way they could've kept that up.  So the 2nd half was a combination of them having to take it down a level and us stepping up a level.  I don't get why anyone would want to not see that, we had the majority of the possession and shots in the 2nd half, it was only a superb 2nd half from Phil Jones (I thought he was man of the match, RVP got the plaudits for his hat-trick but Jones was immense for 90minutes) that stopped us getting on the board.

Oh 1 last point, I've read a couple of comments about Lowton being skinned by a 40 year old, reign that shit in, he was skinned by a guy who is easily the best player in the premier league era, who is the cornerstone of a side who've won 13 titles out of 21, giving a kid shit over that is crazy, sometimes truly great players do great things, even at 40 Giggs has got excellent balance and close control, there's no great shame in him going past you.

No way on god's green earth is Giggs the best player in the premier league era. Most successful for sure but there are countless players better than him and although he contributes to some extent , his game is not running past defenders anymore and should not have run past Lowton as he did.

[JUAN PABLO]

What we thought Dawkins was going to add to the party, for example, I really don't know. Compare him to the effect an experienced defender would have had.

mind boggles

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/pictures-were-all-3-robin-van-persie-first-half-goals-against-aston-villa-offside/

[JUAN PABLO]

"Took their  foot off the gas" is bunk argument  No team does that however sycophants and  luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down.  There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and  score as many as they can but their own complacency and  Villa refusing to give up and  switching a few things around stopped that.

We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.

And were lucky not to be 4 down in the first 15 minutes.

yes I saw VP miss a sitter when I dont know what Vlarr was doing , they hit the post and saw the Jap guy miss an absolute sitter

[JUAN PABLO]

Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.

I don't need a reality check. No one is saying we are a good team and the last thumping was a long time ago but FFS we have to have some thing to hang on to instead of repetitive  "we are shit" jibe.
And  yes they were 3 offside goals , well and true. Officials are suppoed to do their job right.

Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results

First one Lowton plays him onside
second and third I think VP is at least an inch in front.I can see why they were given onside  thou.

[peter w]

All the talk of packing the midfield is a bit redundant when it was long balls from Rooney that caught us out. We just lost to a much better side but at least once it settled down we had the bollocks to have a go at them.

The game was lost and they took their foot off the gas before we started to play a bit. We were dicked 3-0. No positives out of last night's game.

Most sides would have been 'dicked', as you so eloquently put it, by the way they started last night. The credit is that we didn't just fall to pieces but kept at it.

We fell to pieces after 1 minute. No credit in that performance at all. Wake up, Chris!

Sorry to step in Chris, but of course there's credit from the second half display and preventing it becoming a rout. So in your opinion Saunders there is no difference between us losing 8-0 to Chelsea and 3-0 to Man Utd?

Credit to be taken because we weren't humiliated 8-0 again? Jesus wept, is this how far we've fallen?

Well, yes. That's why we are where we are. What we need is to see the slightest signs of positives to suggest that we could still stay up this season, and there were enough in the second-half to suggest we aren't just going to throw in the towel.

[Somniloquism]

"Took their  foot off the gas" is bunk argument  No team does that however sycophants and  luvvy Pressies like to use that term to describe any event where they find it incredible that a inferior team could possibly be capable of changing things and fighting instead of lying down.  There is no doubt that Manu players wanted to put on some sort of exhibition and  score as many as they can but their own complacency and  Villa refusing to give up and  switching a few things around stopped that.

We lost 3-0. It wasn't a plucky 1-0 defeat, nor a 2-1 or a 3-2. We lost by 3 clear goals.

And were lucky not to be 4 down in the first 15 minutes.

yes I saw VP miss a sitter when I dont know what Vlarr was doing , they hit the post and saw the Jap guy miss an absolute sitter

And Benteke missed as well so still only 3 down after all that. Of course that would mean doing an 'Arry of assuming the ball would have been in the exact same positions after a non existent goal was scored. (See Samba's two chances, one from a corner conceded from the first save)

[robbo1874]

Our defence is absolutely shit.  We need 3 of those players replacing if we are to stand a chance of doing anything next season.  IMO of course.

Collectively as a unit they have for the most part been shit this season. Individually though, they've all had matches and runs of games where they've done ok. Look at lowton- not missed a game all season, baker's improved recently and Bennett has also improved and provides a bit of an attacking option down the left side. The main let down for me has been Vlaar. Yes he was unlucky with injury for a significant spell, but when he has played from what I've seen of him he hasn't led the defence and marshalled them as a senior player or a captain should be. Plus the lack of organisation at times also raises questions around what the fuck they do in training all week.

If it wasn't for having Guzan on form we'd probably be all but down by now

[mr-villa]

Spare me the offside nonsense. We lost by 3 clear goals over 90 minutes. Yet another thumping.
Look at our goal difference if you fancy a reality check.

I don't need a reality check. No one is saying we are a good team and the last thumping was a long time ago but FFS we have to have some thing to hang on to instead of repetitive  "we are shit" jibe.
And  yes they were 3 offside goals , well and true. Officials are suppoed to do their job right.

Have another look. I've checked it several times and can't see who is offside:
http://www.footytube.com/video/Manchester-United-vs-Aston-Villa-172711?ref=lchan_results

VALENCIA IS THE PLAYER OFFSIDE ON THE FIRST GOAL
VAN PERSIE IS THE PLAYER OFFSIDE FOR THE SECOND GOAL
VAN PERSIE IS THE PLAYER OFFSIDE FOR THE THIRD GOAL

You are a blind person or somebody who does not understand the offside rule if you can't see all three of those goals were technically offside when the initial ball is played during the play leading to the goal.  All of us who have made a point about their goals being offside are not trying to pretend that they may not have scored or created other chances had the linesman disallowed all three as he should have done.  All we are seeking is an acknowledgment that they were a little fortunate to have been given all three.  I don't know about you but I can't recall a game in prem history where a team scored three goals from offside positions and all three were allowed to stand.  But hey this is the Theatre of Dreams where records are meant to be set so that makes it all ok.

[PeterWithesShin]

NO WAY WAS VAN NISTELROOY OFFSIDE LAST NIGHT.