Stiliyan Petrov - update

[dave.woodhall]

Lost 4-2. Rioch Out. www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=150703

[russon]

perhaps it's too early but has anyone got news on Stan's leukemia foundation at all ie. has it been set up yet?

[KevinGage]

Stan's value to the club went beyond what he was able to do on the pitch, particularly in the latter years. 

The likes of Bannan, Albrighton and co were always at pains to point out how he made the transition from youth team to first team easier, by looking out for the younger players and making them feel a part of things. 

This may well be true

Previous captains we've had -even if they've been better players-  have been looking out for themselves first and foremost.  Think Southgate, Barry and Young.

How on earth can you know this?  Sothgate and Barry in particular struck me as consummate professionals during their time at the Villa.  Just because they had the audacity to move on does not mean they weren't 'club men' when they were here.

Unless you have inside info of course?  If so, fair enough.  If not, well, I hate this sort of blanket statement slagging off people who can't defend themselves just because they moved on.

I don't care how they struck you, TBH (though I wish they had, might have removed the fog).  Barry was our captain at the time he instructed his agent to get him a move, first for Chelsea towards the end of 2007 and then Liverpool in 2008.  This was on top of the two previous transfer requests he'd put in earlier in his Villa career.

Southgate, who - I don't think it's unfair to say owed at least part of his England recognition to Brian Little after the switch to centre half- made noises about leaving the club the first time we hit a rocky patch under he who walks on water in October 1997.  Paraphrasing, but when asked about the issues at the club at the time, rather than a 'We're all in this together and we'll turn it around," type declaration you'd expect from a captain, he instead went the route of "A number of players are considering their future at the club, and I'm one of them."  Thanks Brian.   

He then signed a lucrative contract under JG, but it wasn't long before he was making noises about being unsettled and going 'stale,' in 1999.  And, of course,  the famous 'lack of ambition.'  Which might have been true, to an extent.  But for a player of Southgate's ability -even if he was an England international- a top six club was about par. The transfer request went in in 2000 and remained until 2001.  Only Man U, Chelsea and the like didn't beat a path to his door as he expected.  There probably have been more limited centre halves with an inflated sense of self worth, but not many.

Paul Scholes said something interesting last year when asked about whether he missed playing for England.  "The problem with England get togethers is you get players from Aston Villa asking about life at Manchester United, and how they can get a move."  Considering the time he retired, there's only two/three players that could have been. And I don't think it was Darius Vassell.

Hodge might have been the first player we had who let England recognition get to his head, but he was always a bit of a cock anyway.  More was probably expected from the above two, particularly as captains of the club.   

So that's two players who agitated to leave the club many times before they actually did?  I'd say you and I have very different ideas as to what constitutes consummate professionals, if I was being kind. 

That will be Gareth Southgate who spends his weekends coaching and refereeing an Under 11's team in Harrogate each week? Yep, always looking out for himself.

There's probably a connection between that and the latter stages of his Villa career that I don't see.

[eastie]

The thing Is they are footballers doing a job for the club they play for - not fans of that club.
They will look to progress their career and although its dissappointing i don't hold any grudge against Barry or southgate.
Both gave us great value for money and i was sorry to lose them but that's football these days.

[Slaphead]

There are not many players I have liked over the past 20 years. King Olaf and Martin are two, Gabby will be one I am sure and I have hopes for Weiman but too many others will leave without hesitation and always try to engineer moves to 'bigger' clubs. I try  my best not to give a fuck about players tha play for us these days as I can already see myself getting passed off with Benteke.

[supertom]

I dunno. Fellow pros only seem to have good things to say about Gareth Southgate Badger and Barry. I know their exits were contentious but they never let the effort drop. I would guess if you asked a lot of youngsters breaking through at the times Southgate and Barry had become key players respectively, they'd have good things to say. Southgate has always struck me as a decent guy, certainly even more so than Barry. Moving to Boro was one of the few times Southgate probably made himself look a plum.
As for Barry, you can't really say that wasn't a good move which paid off. Even Southgate won a trophy with Boro too and get to a European final. During his Boro time we were a country mile away from winning a trophy...NOT that I'd trade places with them.
He probably was starting to go stale with us to be honest. Then there was Boro who weren't afraid of throwing a few quid around. He probably felt there was ambition there, and they probably paid him more. At the end of the day, money talks even for the best of pro's.

In Barry's case, he seemed set to move a few seasons. When O Leary was here I wouldn't have blamed him. The Liverpool fiasco was foolish, but a rare blot on his CV. He's mostly been very level headed and very consistent. A top pro.

And I love Stan but had he joined us 2-3 years earlier and really hit the ground running, how can anyone know he wouldn't have been angling for a move? I'd like to think he wouldn't have, but we don't know. What I will say for Stan was that despite a lot of the players having a major discord with Houllier, including our boy Gabby, he was a completely consummate pro and very diplomatic.

There is most certainly a big difference between Southgate and Barry, and the likes of Downing.

[saunders_heroes]

Stan's value to the club went beyond what he was able to do on the pitch, particularly in the latter years. 

The likes of Bannan, Albrighton and co were always at pains to point out how he made the transition from youth team to first team easier, by looking out for the younger players and making them feel a part of things. 

This may well be true

Previous captains we've had -even if they've been better players-  have been looking out for themselves first and foremost.  Think Southgate, Barry and Young.

How on earth can you know this?  Sothgate and Barry in particular struck me as consummate professionals during their time at the Villa.  Just because they had the audacity to move on does not mean they weren't 'club men' when they were here.

Unless you have inside info of course?  If so, fair enough.  If not, well, I hate this sort of blanket statement slagging off people who can't defend themselves just because they moved on.

I don't care how they struck you, TBH (though I wish they had, might have removed the fog).  Barry was our captain at the time he instructed his agent to get him a move, first for Chelsea towards the end of 2007 and then Liverpool in 2008.  This was on top of the two previous transfer requests he'd put in earlier in his Villa career.

Southgate, who - I don't think it's unfair to say owed at least part of his England recognition to Brian Little after the switch to centre half- made noises about leaving the club the first time we hit a rocky patch under he who walks on water in October 1997.  Paraphrasing, but when asked about the issues at the club at the time, rather than a 'We're all in this together and we'll turn it around," type declaration you'd expect from a captain, he instead went the route of "A number of players are considering their future at the club, and I'm one of them."  Thanks Brian.   

He then signed a lucrative contract under JG, but it wasn't long before he was making noises about being unsettled and going 'stale,' in 1999.  And, of course,  the famous 'lack of ambition.'  Which might have been true, to an extent.  But for a player of Southgate's ability -even if he was an England international- a top six club was about par. The transfer request went in in 2000 and remained until 2001.  Only Man U, Chelsea and the like didn't beat a path to his door as he expected.  There probably have been more limited centre halves with an inflated sense of self worth, but not many.

Paul Scholes said something interesting last year when asked about whether he missed playing for England.  "The problem with England get togethers is you get players from Aston Villa asking about life at Manchester United, and how they can get a move."  Considering the time he retired, there's only two/three players that could have been. And I don't think it was Darius Vassell.

Hodge might have been the first player we had who let England recognition get to his head, but he was always a bit of a cock anyway.  More was probably expected from the above two, particularly as captains of the club.   

So that's two players who agitated to leave the club many times before they actually did?  I'd say you and I have very different ideas as to what constitutes consummate professionals, if I was being kind. 

That will be Gareth Southgate who spends his weekends coaching and refereeing an Under 11's team in Harrogate each week? Yep, always looking out for himself.

There's probably a connection between that and the latter stages of his Villa career that I don't see.

Players come and go. Get over it. Perhaps if we had signed Petrov in his younger days he may well of left us for a bigger club if he one had come in for him. No big deal, it happens.
Barry and Southgate were fine players for us. Barry deserved to go and win things after the 11 years service he gave to us, and good luck to him.

[KevinGage]

The thing Is they are footballers doing a job for the club they play for - not fans of that club.
They will look to progress their career and although its dissappointing i don't hold any grudge against Barry or southgate.
Both gave us great value for money and i was sorry to lose them but that's football these days.

Aye.  But compare and contrast that with Stan.   Joins Villa after MON's arrival.   Has a big affinity with him since their time together at Celtic.  O'Neill leaves.  Surely -if he wanted to- he could have agitated for a move, one final payday.  On the grounds that he didn't like the direction the club was going. He was plenty good enough to still play at a decent standard- on big money-  here or abroad. He could have done that in 2010 or 2011 -after the horrors of Houllier.

But he stayed.  Not only that, he was extremely popular around the place the majority of his time with us (still is).  To the point that many of the younger players mentioned him by name, and how he'd gone out of his way to make them feel a part of the set up.

That's the initial point I was making.  Not so much to bag the previous lot  (even if they did act like wankers).  Being captain means setting a higher standard than other players at the club, both in performance and conduct.   I'm not suggesting that wearing the captains armband ties you to a club for life.  If an opportunity presents itself to further your career most players (and people in general) will take it. 

But it's the way you go about that.  Putting in transfer requests, slating the club publicly and running interviews in a newspaper asking the club to let you make your 'dream' move to Liverpool does not tally with this notion of the above pair as consummate professionals.  It is consistent with how some Villa fans seem to view their own club though, unfortunately.  Smallfry. There to just make up the numbers. So it's to be expected that our best players will want to leave.  Not only that, we should be applauding them for doing so.     

[Clampy]

I remember reading that interview Barry did with the NOTW together with the picture of him looking depressed and i sat there thinking 'what a twat'. For a club captain, it was a tad bit unprofessional and for a club which gave him his chance, arguably a little disrespectful.

[eastie]

I remember reading that interview Barry did with the NOTW together with the picture of him looking depressed and i sat there thinking 'what a twat'. For a club captain, it was a tad bit unprofessional and for a club which gave him his chance, arguably a little disrespectful.

It works both ways clampy, yes we gave him his chance but he gave us a decade of loyal service - its a career to footballers and sad as it is to lose top players its not going to change anytime soon .

He was trying to force the issue and probably ill advised to do the article but gave us another good year afterwards , unlike dwight yorke.

I hope we are not having this discussion about benteke in the next few weeks.

[Clampy]

I remember reading that interview Barry did with the NOTW together with the picture of him looking depressed and i sat there thinking 'what a twat'. For a club captain, it was a tad bit unprofessional and for a club which gave him his chance, arguably a little disrespectful.

He was trying to force the issue and probably ill advised to do the article but gave us another good year afterwards , unlike dwight yorke.

He did'nt really have much choice considering that the club who he so so desperatley wanted to join did'nt think he was worth the money we was asking.

[eastie]

I remember reading that interview Barry did with the NOTW together with the picture of him looking depressed and i sat there thinking 'what a twat'. For a club captain, it was a tad bit unprofessional and for a club which gave him his chance, arguably a little disrespectful.

He was trying to force the issue and probably ill advised to do the article but gave us another good year afterwards , unlike dwight yorke.

He did'nt really have much choice considering that the club who he so so desperatley wanted to join did'nt think he was worth the money we was asking.

He still got his head down and had a great season for us though, there are many who would have sulked and under performed - i like both Gareth's and think both were good role models .
I was surprised nobody bigger than boro came in for southgate to be honest .

[PeterWithesShin]

I remember reading that interview Barry did with the NOTW together with the picture of him looking depressed and i sat there thinking 'what a twat'. For a club captain, it was a tad bit unprofessional and for a club which gave him his chance, arguably a little disrespectful.

It works both ways clampy, yes we gave him his chance but he gave us a decade of loyal service - its a career to footballers and sad as it is to lose top players its not going to change anytime soon .

He was trying to force the issue and probably ill advised to do the article but gave us another good year afterwards , unlike dwight yorke.

I hope we are not having this discussion about benteke in the next few weeks.

He tried to leave more than once before that NOTW interview.

[Clampy]

I remember reading that interview Barry did with the NOTW together with the picture of him looking depressed and i sat there thinking 'what a twat'. For a club captain, it was a tad bit unprofessional and for a club which gave him his chance, arguably a little disrespectful.

It works both ways clampy, yes we gave him his chance but he gave us a decade of loyal service - its a career to footballers and sad as it is to lose top players its not going to change anytime soon .

He was trying to force the issue and probably ill advised to do the article but gave us another good year afterwards , unlike dwight yorke.

I hope we are not having this discussion about benteke in the next few weeks.

He tried to leave more than once before that NOTW interview.

Also in that interview, he said that he'd only leave for a club playing in the Champions League and he ended up going to Man City who at the time were not even in europe.

I don't begrudge him his move, it was his choice and his career but he was just a bit of an arse for the way he went about it.

[saunders_heroes]

I remember reading that interview Barry did with the NOTW together with the picture of him looking depressed and i sat there thinking 'what a twat'. For a club captain, it was a tad bit unprofessional and for a club which gave him his chance, arguably a little disrespectful.

It works both ways clampy, yes we gave him his chance but he gave us a decade of loyal service - its a career to footballers and sad as it is to lose top players its not going to change anytime soon .

He was trying to force the issue and probably ill advised to do the article but gave us another good year afterwards , unlike dwight yorke.

I hope we are not having this discussion about benteke in the next few weeks.

He tried to leave more than once before that NOTW interview.

Also in that interview, he said that he'd only leave for a club playing in the Champions League and he ended up going to Man City who at the time were not even in europe.

I don't begrudge him his move, it was his choice and his career but he was just a bit of an arse for the way he went about it.

Obviously he told all about what was about to happen at Man City and was sold on the idea. I bet there wouldn't be a footballer out there that wouldn't turn them down. He justified his move anyway. He wanted trophies and CL football and he got it. He was hardly ever going to get that at Villa.