Just when you think that things couldn't get any worse....

[john e]

Fat Face spent as much as Lambert did last summer,

Not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion, by my calculations Lambert spent loads more.

What are your calculations?

According to transferleague.co.uk West Ham spent £18,250,000

We spent 23.7m, so more, but not really "loads more".

Then there's the fact that, if we wanted to - and I am sure our glorious leaders are itching to - we could sell one of those players Lambert bought and cover a massive chunk of that total outlay.

I think you need to cotton on to the way things are, JR, it's not enough that our league results and position are shit, it actually has to be EVERYTHING that is shit, which means all his signings are gash, too.

paulie,  i agree totaly with you, but you are fighting a losing battle here

if people cant see a difference between the football Lambert is trying to get us playing and the stuff BFS plays, then there is no point arguing
if people really believe that Lamberts  football is no better than TSM's best efforts then its a non argument, its going no where

you can compare results, and make a case that lambert has performed very poorly so far, and in respect of TSM you can say he has faired no better, but thats not the only criteria, and on what PL is trying to produce  is simply miles different from anything TSM, BFS or Pullis can even dream about
if people cant see that, then its time to close the door, because they never will

[Risso]

£2.5m of West Ham's spend in the summer was on James Collins.....

£11m on Jarvis

£7.5m I think you'll find.  You can't spend add ons until the trigger event happens, if it ever does.

[Chico Hamilton III]

£7.5m I think you'll find.

I'll bow t the bean counter

still dont make Sam the new Guardiola though, as some would talk of him.

[Clampy]

There is a case for sticking with Lambert if we do go down. Look at M'Boro for example. They kept Southgate on after he took them down, sacked him about 6-7 games in (it may have been more) and i think they were 3rd at the time. They employed Mowbray and are still trying to get back up.

[eastie]

The end of the season means nothing. It's as clear as day that the season could go either way. There's no point sticking with Lambert now unless we are prepared to see it through. If we sack him at the end of the season we would have been far better off sacking him at the start of January. We need to stick with him for a couple of seasons at the bare minimum to see whether this policy of investing in youth is actually working. Judging him and this policy after one season is completely pointless imo.

I agree entirely with this.

If we got relegated, what kind of manager do people think we'd get in and give us a chance of bouncing straight back?

I've had enough of the endless squandering of money paying off managers and paying for new ones to come in, let's put some trust in the bloke (which the board seem to have done, and which most people here have done), back him with the money needed (fingers crossed on that one, because January was a shambles) and give him time to rebuild the club.

I understand those who are angry at the way this season has gone, but just think we need to be a bit calmer about this and not give in to our natural desire to sack the bloke / make someone pay for it.

EDIT it actually isn't "what kind of manager do we think we'd get in", it should be "what kind of manager do we think Lerner and Faulkner would get in". We've seen their cluelessness already with managerial appointments, and that was when we were operating as a top flight club.

I shudder to think what sort of dross they'd get in if we were in the championship.

So if the wrong man is in the job and takes us down we stick with him - no thanks , should have gone a month ago - the people saying stick with lambert are in the main the ones who called for mcleish to go thos time last season and we are worse off points wise than a year ago and have had humiliation after humiliation- if you make a mistake you put your hand up and admit it , not blindly carry on with the same mumbling incompetent .

The day lambert goes i will celebrate with a bottle of bubbly in the same way i celebrated the day o neill went - good riddance to both.

The pro and anti lambert brigade have made their minds up and are not going to change our opinions so we must accept each others views.

I will return on saturday in the hope we can get a much needed result but until then i will steer clear or this lambert love in - enjoy your week all!

[Clampy]

See you some time within the next ten minutes no doubt Eastie.

[john e]

eastie,
my minds not made up on Lambert, if we are in the same situation next year (asuming we stay up) then i will probably be thinking he's not up to the job
there is a difference in wanting to get rid of a manager after just a few months and thinking he's the bees knees

[pauliewalnuts]

So if the wrong man is in the job and takes us down we stick with him - no thanks , should have gone a month ago - the people saying stick with lambert are in the main the ones who called for mcleish to go thos time last season and we are worse off points wise than a year ago and have had humiliation after humiliation- if you make a mistake you put your hand up and admit it , not blindly carry on with the same mumbling incompetent .

That's the point though.

McLeish happened, we can't pretend otherwise, we're another massive waste of money on compensation down the line to be talking about binning Lambert.

Ultimately, the difference between Lambert and McLeish is that Lambert has a record of getting his previous teams playing decent stuff, and has tried - tried - to get us doing so.

Some of this has shown, but not enough yet.

So, you're stuck, you either stick with what you have and back him to build on what he has got thus far, or you totally throw away any real gain which came with the pain of this season - yet again - and start all over again.

Except this time, you're in the Championship and looking at an even lower quality of candidate.

You can also go on about how he should have been sacked ages ago yada yada, but ultimately, he wasn't was he? We can only look at where we are now, or more pressingly, where we will be at the end of the season.

For starters, go down, and your Allardyce dream appointment doesn't have a hope in hell of coming off. So then who do you look at?

[KevinGage]

Fat Face spent as much as Lambert did last summer,

Not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion, by my calculations Lambert spent loads more.

What are your calculations?

According to transferleague.co.uk West Ham spent £18,250,000

We spent 23.7m, so more, but not really "loads more".

Then there's the fact that, if we wanted to - and I am sure our glorious leaders are itching to - we could sell one of those players Lambert bought and cover a massive chunk of that total outlay.

I think you need to cotton on to the way things are, JR, it's not enough that our league results and position are shit, it actually has to be EVERYTHING that is shit, which means all his signings are gash, too.

paulie,  i agree totaly with you, but you are fighting a losing battle here

if people cant see a difference between the football Lambert is trying to get us playing and the stuff BFS plays, then there is no point arguing
if people really believe that Lamberts  football is no better than TSM's best efforts then its a non argument, its going no where

you can compare results, and make a case that lambert has performed very poorly so far, and in respect of TSM you can say he has faired no better, but thats not the only criteria, and on what PL is trying to produce  is simply miles different from anything TSM, BFS or Pullis can even dream about
if people cant see that, then its time to close the door, because they never will

What is this maverick, revolutionary type of approach he's trying to bring about then?

During his time at Norwich -the perod that seems to be the highlight of his career so far- they were quite capable of the big boof ball to Holt and Morrison and working the flanks. 

During the past few months we've seen that at various stages at Villa too.

There are the odd 15/20 minute spells where we knock the ball about-  usually when the opposition have the lead, mind.  And are content to sit back and soak up pressure. Even relegated sides have periods of 15/20 minutes in a game where they don't look totally dismal.  We still have major issues with movement and running off the ball, so if this is being worked on -like our set piece efforts- the work is falling far short. 

[pauliewalnuts]

We still have major issues with movement and running off the ball, so if this is being worked on -like our set piece efforts- the work is falling far short. 

At least Allardyce could sort that out. The movement would just be legging it upfield and hoping for a knock down from Andy Carroll.

In fact, he'd solve our midfield problem too, as we wouldn't need one. The big man up front, and James Collins at the back, witlessly hoofing out everything that comes anywhere near him.

*wink*

[john e]

Fat Face spent as much as Lambert did last summer,

Not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion, by my calculations Lambert spent loads more.

What are your calculations?

According to transferleague.co.uk West Ham spent £18,250,000

We spent 23.7m, so more, but not really "loads more".

Then there's the fact that, if we wanted to - and I am sure our glorious leaders are itching to - we could sell one of those players Lambert bought and cover a massive chunk of that total outlay.

I think you need to cotton on to the way things are, JR, it's not enough that our league results and position are shit, it actually has to be EVERYTHING that is shit, which means all his signings are gash, too.

paulie,  i agree totaly with you, but you are fighting a losing battle here

if people cant see a difference between the football Lambert is trying to get us playing and the stuff BFS plays, then there is no point arguing
if people really believe that Lamberts  football is no better than TSM's best efforts then its a non argument, its going no where

you can compare results, and make a case that lambert has performed very poorly so far, and in respect of TSM you can say he has faired no better, but thats not the only criteria, and on what PL is trying to produce  is simply miles different from anything TSM, BFS or Pullis can even dream about
if people cant see that, then its time to close the door, because they never will

What is this maverick, revolutionary type of approach he's trying to bring about then?

During his time at Norwich -the perod that seems to be the highlight of his career so far- they were quite capable of the big boof ball to Holt and Morrison and working the flanks. 

During the past few months we've seen that at various stages at Villa too.

There are the odd 15/20 minute spells where we knock the ball about-  usually when the opposition have the lead, mind.  And are content to sit back and soak up pressure. Even relegated sides have periods of 15/20 minutes in a game where they don't look totally dismal.  We still have major issues with movement and running off the ball, so if this is being worked on -like our set piece efforts- the work is falling far short. 

i dont think its revolutionary, just a whole lot better than Mcliesh, Allardyce etc
to be honest i dont have a problem if people dont think Lambert is the man, thats just an opinion, he might not be

but anyone who prefers the sort of guff Allardyce and TSM have served up there whole careers cant like football very much

[KevinGage]

James Beckenbauer Collins coming back to Villa is another in the plus column, naturally.

On a serious point, I'd take their midfield options over ours.

[john e]

James Beckenbauer Collins coming back to Villa is another in the plus column, naturally.

On a serious point, I'd take their midfield options over ours.

cant say there midfield were to impresive last time out, but that was only one game i suppose

[SamTheMouse]

I really don't think you can compare Lambert with TSM. McLeish signed has-beens for stupid money, whereas Lambert has clearly adopted what he considers to be a financially sustainable approach, buying youngsters whose value will increase rather than depreciate.

Of course, if we get relegated it'll be a big setback, but by investing in youth he's sacrificing short-term stability in the hope of longer term success, and I share his belief that it's the right way to go.

Just a shame he's spent so long being shite at organising a competent defence.

[danlanza]

Has the eastie and clampy love in started yet ?