6 Nations 2013

[paul_e]

I have no idea how he can justify not bringing Burns on, Flood was awful all game other than kicking at the posts but you can't keep a fly half on purely for their penalties.

I know it might seem as if I'm picking on him but Brown had a terrible 2nd half, missed 4-5 straight up tackles by refusing to tackle low.  Internationally you can't tackle high one-on-one, you'll just get shrugged off.  Going forward he just doesn't do the right thing.  First half he broke away well and then cut across Ashton's line before looking and realising he had no support because he'd taken the space of his support runner, if he'd straightened, commited the man and offloaded we'd have scored.  Second half there was a scramble on half way he came through on the loose ball and kicked, a big kick and Manu was in lots of space out wide, but instead he tried to chip ahead for himself and ended up giving it away.  Small things but better decision making and there were 2 tries there.  For me it's no suprise that he's yet to score a try internationally, he's completely failed to adjust his game to internationals.

Goode isn't quick enough, everything else about his game is rendered irrelevant by it, he'd be ok at 10 maybe but at 15 you need a burst of pace.

Pack performed well other than being nudged back in a few scrums.  Care had a decent first half and then stayed in the changing room after half time.  Barritt showed 2 or 3 times that he just doesn't have the attacking instincts to be productive when we have the ball and like my Flood comment, you can't keep picking him because he tackles well.

I'm really angry about the performance, we have some exceptional young backs who can't get a look in whilst Barritt, Brown, Goode and Flood all seem to be picked irrespective of performances and were the weak links in the team (with Care joining them for the 15-20mins of the 2nd half before he got subbed).

Fundamentally the problem was that our backs completely failed to turn our forward dominance in the first half into a suitable lead, which gave Italy the encouragement they needed to come out really aggressive and go at us.   

[paul_e]

I agree with Woodward's backline - Youngs, Farrell, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Ashton, May and Brown.

Foden at 15 and I'd go with that, I find it pretty amazing that Foden has lost his place in the squad (both with Lancaster and with a lot of pundits and fans) to 2 guys who have been so average.  Foden and Ashton are 2 of a small number of bright sparks from Johnno's time and yet we seem to have abandoned one and changed our game enough to marginalise the other.

[PaulWinch again]

I'm thinking maybe that Foden isn't properly back fit yet, or he'd be in surely.

[Dave Summers]

A bit like Paul E, I am furious at what I witnessed yesterday.  The ONLY thing I personally took away from a freezing cold afternoon at Twickenham was that we won.

Good points were that Mako justified his start and some of his ball handling was just superb.  When Corbs is fit, those two should be the two looseheads in the squad.  Tom Youngs I thought did well and Cole was steady enough.   Overall the back 5 of the pack didn't stand out but they did a solid enough job.  I do believe that we miss Morgan's ball carrying qualities when he isn't there.  I hope he gets picked for Cardiff, but I fear that Lancaster wants to get Wood, Croft and Robshaw into the same back row.  He has too choose between Croft and Wood, simple as, and play one of them at 6.

On to the backs, absolutely putrid. Dreadful !!!.  I am not sure what happens to Danny Care when he starts but with Quins he plays a fast tempo, quick taps etc.  Just got slower and slower yesterday and his box kicking was awful.

Toby Flood, again like Paul E I was furious that Burns didn't have a run.  Kept looking down at the bench and never even got close to coming on.  I would feel insulted to have sat 80 mins and watched that clown at 10. 

Barritt and Tuilagi.  Sigh !!!.  Been very good but they just don't know how to draw a man and pass the ball.  They nearly fecked up Barritt's try v New Zealand when it was a simple 2 on 1.

Back 3.  I like Alex Goode but no doubt he has regressed since the Autumn and is not making or even attempting to make the breaks he did then.  As he hasn't got much gas, it renders him half the player.  Everytime yesterday when the ball was quicked long to him it was HOOF in the air and invariably was collected by a Blue shirt.

I feel sorry for Brown and Ashton because they never get any decent passes because of all the issues inside of them.  Brown is so frustrated with Manu because he rarely passes to him and therefore Brown ends up trying to do too much.

For next week, presuming Foden won't play, I would play Brown at 15 and I guess bring Strettle in.  Would pick May, Sharples, Wade, Yarde, Eastmond, Varndell all ahead of him but not in squad.

Twelvetrees at 12 and Manu at 13 please with Farrell and Youngs as half backs.

In the forwards I would play Morgan, Wood and Robshaw as back row.  Appears Launchbury is struggling and Parling has a stinger so Lawes is back in and the front row kept the same.

Bench : Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Botha, Croft, Care, Burns, Foden.

Finally and the worst of all, how many overlaps did we butcher yesterday?.  Embarrassingly poor.  From the Upper Tier you get a really good view of the play and we also just went side to side to side throwing miss passes and making it easy for the drift defence.  When we needed to throw a miss pass, Flood's non try, we didn't.  It was appalling.

Roll on Saturday !!!

[Jon Crofts]

Floods kicking from hand was woeful, missing touch twice in the first 15 then the kick & hope kicks from his own half in the second half straight down the middle straight down the full backs throat.
We won't play that poorly again next week and I've seen nothing to concern England about Wales & their play yet, sure they'll raise their game but we surely have too much all over the park for Wales.

Dave, it was icy yesterday, we managed to blag our way into the BMW hospitaity in the West Car Park, the relief from the cold was fantastic.
 

[Dave Summers]

Well done Jon, impressive work.  Don't think I have ever been as cold as I was yesterday at Twickenham.  Was lovely in the pub too ;-)

Flood kicking yes.  I can understand going for as much length as he did on the first one and the Italian did well to keep it in.  However to make the same mistake twice is really stupid. 

I thought we kicked it away too much anyway second half.  First 30 we kept the ball, passed it and worked our way upfield and our ball retention was excellent.  I have no idea why they deviated from this plan.  Was one of many aspects I remain confused about !!

[nigel]

I actually wonder if it was a tactical ploy to keep Wales guessing?

[Jon Crofts]

I think it was more of a take the foot off the gas a bit, lower the intensity a bit & give them a bit too much respect rather than a tactic to throw Wales off. 

[Dave Summers]

Well Lancaster has said that Morgan won't be fit for the weekend.  That is a major disappointment for the game because of his ball carrying as mentioned earlier.

Think Lancaster will now have the excuse to use Croft, Wood and Robshaw in the same back row.

If he is being brave though, he will put Vunipola on the bench.  This is the exact reason why he should have been in the 23 yesterday and had at least 30 mins game time.  Frustrating that he wasn't !!!

[paul_e]

Well done Jon, impressive work.  Don't think I have ever been as cold as I was yesterday at Twickenham.  Was lovely in the pub too ;-)

Flood kicking yes.  I can understand going for as much length as he did on the first one and the Italian did well to keep it in.  However to make the same mistake twice is really stupid. 

I thought we kicked it away too much anyway second half.  First 30 we kept the ball, passed it and worked our way upfield and our ball retention was excellent.  I have no idea why they deviated from this plan.  Was one of many aspects I remain confused about !!

The problem with Flood was he did it a 3rd time but they couldn't quite keep it in play.  He also kicked away a lot of ball and (this is the important bit) he never  commands play.  Farrell on the pitch we look capable, at times, because he tells the forwards to get out of the way, Flood is happy to sit in and let the forwards keep the ball until we're in the 22, he never looks to force play at all.  I'd honestly drop him from the squad after saturday, ignoring the kicking from the tee for a minute, it was the worst performance I've seen from and England 10 for a long long time.  Kicking from the tee he did his job, but there wasn't a single one of those that I wouldn't have expected an international goalkicker to make.

Brown i'll relent a little, the guy will never be an international winger but then he isn't a club winger so why should he be expected to.  It's all come about on the back of Foden playing there for a few games in SA and 2 full backs looking ok but the experiement needs to end now.  No other side in the 6N would pick Brown as a winger so if we want to play him then Goode has to be dropped (and deserves to be unfortunately).

I personally find it entirely unsurprising that we've taken most of our backs from the most forward-centric side in england and we've become entirely forward-centric.

Re: croft, wood and robshaw - I agree totally, Croft was utterly anonymous on saturday and didn't look fit enough to be playing at this level (to me).  Haskell is ok but nothing more.  Not giving Billy V a spot on the bench and a 20minute run out is as poor as leaving Burns collecting splinters.  I also think he's made a huge error in not even attempting to have an alternative to Robshaw, A bench spot for Kvesic at some point would've been a very good idea.

If we want to say we're building towards the next world cup he needs to start giving people a look in to see if he can build options for all his spots.  He's done a good job of that in the front 6 (but needs to find better backup for Cole) and we're starting to build some depth in the centres but fly half, wings and then 7 and 8 we look far too thin on experience and I don't see when he's going to attempt to give people that if not at home to Italy.

Put it this way if Robshaw picked a knock up in training would you be comfortable with someone else starting at 7?  Haskell? Wood in his 3rd position of the tournament?

[Dave Summers]

I think in Lancaster's defence he will be trying a number of these players out on the summer tour to Argentina when much of our first team will be with the Wales/Ireland Lions touring party.

I then expect the next EPS squad picked in August to be the one that the majority of the World Cup team will come from.

I can't see much changing from Sunday in terms of selection and am hugely concerned at our prospects.  Trouble is Wales have been dire all this tournament as well and if we are on form we will win.  However, with the pressure, the "hwyl", the singing etc etc it maybe a bit too much for us.

In terms of the summer I want to see the likes of Simpson, Burns, 36, Joseph, Wade, May and Brown or Foden making up our backline.  In the forwards want too see Kvesic and Billy V in the back row, Kitchener get a run in the 2nd row and Henry Thomas, Mako and possibly Jamie George make up the front row.

Loads of exciting players there and mixed with our prospective Lions offer plenty of depth and talent.  It just remains for Lancaster to get the balance right.  So far by and large he has, I trust him to do it again

[PaulWinch again]

Marler in for Mako, not to happy with that. Wood moves to 8 and Croft comes in. Other changes Farrell and Youngs back in, which I prefer to the half back pairing against Italy.

[Dave Summers]

Marler in for Mako, not to happy with that. Wood moves to 8 and Croft comes in. Other changes Farrell and Youngs back in, which I prefer to the half back pairing against Italy.

I have absolutely no idea at all why Marler has been selected in front of Mako.  Predicting that Adam Jones will eat him alive to put himself in pole position to be the Lions tight head.

Thought that Croft would be back for the reasons I said above, SL has wanted to get all three into his back row for sometime and this is the first opportunity as they are all currently fit.   Should be a tremendous battle of both back rows and not sure who will get on top.

Youngs and Farrell was a no brainer after last week and I prefer Care as an impact sub anyway.  Wish he had used Freddie for the second half and got him on the bench for this one.

A predictable team and one that is capable of winning.  I just don't see though, other than Farrell's boot, where we will get our points from.

[PaulWinch again]

I don't have a problem with Lancaster going the predictable route here, although Mako should be in. As stated above I think the summer tour is when we can reintergrate Foden and blood the likes of Burns, Billy V, 36, Wade, May and the like. Then we'll see those coming in for the autumn and the 6 nations.

[paul_e]

For me:

Mako doesn't deserve to be dropped, he was very effective in the first half, more so than Marler has been all tournament.
Flood doesn't deserve to be on the bench, he was really poor, if he comes on and plays like that against wales we'll really struggle.
Croft isn't fit enough to start, there's very little chance of him lasting more than an hour, which means we're screwed if Robshaw or Wood take a knock.

I'll never be happy with Barrit and Manu as the centres, it completely starves the outside backs of service.

Regarding the summer, I agree he will be forced to try other options but it's the fact that's only going to do it when he's forced into it that worries me.