Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: Jon Crofts on January 28, 2013, 09:12:53 AM
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Starts Saturday with Wales v Ireland in Cardiff at 1:30, England v Jocks at Twickenham at 4 & Sundays game sees Italy take on France in Rome.
Who's your favourites for the trophy this year & for the wooden spoon?
Off the back of Englands win v the All Blacks I guess many will put England at the head of the pack, personally I'd put France there, just, with Scotland very much the wooden spoon team.
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Wales are still strong, they have to travel to France, but have England & Ireland at home.
France have to travel to Twickers.
Ireland have both England & France at home.
Let's not forget that, on their day, both Scotland & Italy have the capability to upset a team.
I can see this being one of the tightest for years.
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France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy
England will struggle in Dublin.
Let's look at the bigger picture, as long as some young players get blooded in, not winning the 6N wont be a disaster.
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France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy
England will struggle in Dublin.
Let's look at the bigger picture, as long as some young players get blooded in, not winning the 6N wont be a disaster.
Yes, the World Cup 2015 build up starts here.
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I think there's 3 pairs this year
England and France 1-2
Ireland and Wales 3-4
Scotland and Italy 5-6
I'll go
England
France
Ireland
Wales
Italy
Scotland
At club level the french sides look strong, but, much like in England, the best teams have lots of foreign players and it's those players who've been driving them on, for example the best player in France (Stefon Armitage is probably the form back row in europe right now) should be appearing for us but isn't going to feature in the tournament because we won't pick him. Contrast that with the england players, who in general have been in great form the last few weeks at club level and they have a big result from the autumn to take confidence from.
Ireland look a lot like england did after 2003, lots of good players getting old together and very little experience coming up behind them, I think they may have a few fairly barren years on the horizon, aside from the experience thing, BoD isn't the player he was and their performances have been tied to his for 10years.
I still think England have some problems. I still think Farrell is too 1-dimensional, the midfield is totally reliant on Manu's power and I'm still not convinced that picking 2 full backs is a good idea but despite all that we have the best front 5 in the 6N by a distance, have a dynamic 8 (and an even better one behind him) and have the strongest set of 6s in world rugby (Wood is the best 6 in the world if he can stay fit, Croft from the bench is explosive and game changing and if either are unavailable we have Johnson, Lawes and Launchbury in the squad). 7 is my only concern in the pack, Robshaw is decent but he's having his weaknesses covered by Dan Cole at the minute
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France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy
England will struggle in Dublin.
Let's look at the bigger picture, as long as some young players get blooded in, not winning the 6N wont be a disaster.
Yes, the World Cup 2015 build up starts here.
Agree totally, Game time for Joseph and Kvesic along with at least a few showings of Lawes and Launchbury as a pairing should be required. I wish we'd taken Billy Vunipola ahead of Waldrom as well so he could have a few run outs.
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Interesting, the 2 full backs, Paul.
It might prove to be an inspirational tactic.
If you remember, when we won the World Cup we played 2 fly halves (Wilkinson & Catt). Both could also play inside centre, and both were competent kicking from hand.
Wilkinson remarked how much pressure Catt took off him.
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Interesting, the 2 full backs, Paul.
It might prove to be an inspirational tactic.
If you remember, when we won the World Cup we played 2 fly halves (Wilkinson & Catt). Both could also play inside centre, and both were competent kicking from hand.
Wilkinson remarked how much pressure Catt took off him.
but that's entirely the problem I see with 2 full backs, our game at the time was built around wilkinson, so a 2nd fly half was to stop him being targeted so much and worked well. As far as I can tell the 2 full backs are to allow Goode to step into midfield and be our creative influence, but the cost is that Brown/Foden have to play on the wing and neither is entirely comfortable there. Ashton is the perfect modern winger (ignore his lack of tries, that's becuase of the barritt/manu pairing), he can drift inside, he looks to support his man, etc. By not picking a genuine winger on the other side we lose the chance to have a similar threat all over the field.
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Indeed. That Mike Brown is picked as a winger ahead or Charlie Sharples is an utter disgrace.
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As someone with Welsh parents, I follow Welsh rugby and although the domestic game is in turmoil in the principality, I think they have more than enough to challenge for the title this year. They have got a few absentees up front (especially in the second row), but have a very powerful back division.
Should be a good tournament this year.
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Indeed. That Mike Brown is picked as a winger ahead or Charlie Sharples is an utter disgrace.
He's kind of shown his hand with what he wants form wingers now though by picking Strettle and Monye, 2 who will work hard and are fairly solid defensively but offer very little going forward. It all comes back to a massive over reliance on the pack and Manu's power being our game changers. The backs, as a group, are incredibly conservative/defensive. Christian Wade has been the most destructive winger in the country for 2 years but can't get a look in. Burns is the most dynamic 10 we've seen but Farrell is ahead of him because he tackles well. Barritt offers very little in attack but he's the best tackler in europe (in the centres) and does the dirty work on the floor as well as any 7.
You can't fault him that it's been a reasonably successful approach but I just don't think you can win a world cup like that. He needs to start using these more creative options (Burns, Twelvetrees, Wade, maybe Trinder as well) even if only to come off the bench to change things up.
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As someone with Welsh parents, I follow Welsh rugby and although the domestic game is in turmoil in the principality, I think they have more than enough to challenge for the title this year. They have got a few absentees up front (especially in the second row), but have a very powerful back division.
Should be a good tournament this year.
None of them are showing any great form though, and more importantly their pack is very weak. The old adage of 'forwards win you games, backs decide by how many' is particularly true for Welsh rugby at the minute. I agree they have a lot of firepowerm, which will see them beat Scotland and Italy but I think England and France will dominate them up front and Ireland will have enough strength defensively to stop them.
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We really need to carry on where we left off from the New Zealand game, it's all about progression.
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We really need to carry on where we left off from the New Zealand game, it's all about progression.
Given the news this afternoon that Manu is out for the scotland match that's not really an option.
For what it's worth I'd go with Twelvetrees inside and move Barritt out one. I do worry how he'll approach the game now though, my big concern being he'll go flood at 10 and push farrell to 12.
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We really need to carry on where we left off from the New Zealand game, it's all about progression.
Given the news this afternoon that Manu is out for the scotland match that's not really an option.
For what it's worth I'd go with Twelvetrees inside and move Barritt out one. I do worry how he'll approach the game now though, my big concern being he'll go flood at 10 and push farrell to 12.
Would that really be a bad thing, though, Paul?
It just might be as productive as the Wilkinson & Catt partnership.
I do see your concerns regarding the two full back thing, though. I have to admit that I'm a bit out on the players at the moment, so I will defer to your, obvious, knowledge of players.
I prefer Foden at full back, but, as mentioned, I don't really know enough about the others
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I think you need someone with a bit of unpredictability at 10 or 12. Will Greenwood provided that during our best years, which allowed the others to be steady influences, its also why Autralia have managed to stay near the top of the world for years despite having a very average pack, and it's why Carter is a big part of NZ going from a decent side who never quite made the leap to being world cup winners. At the crunch games you need your pack to provide a platform but you also need inspiration, our current tactic is based around Goode stepping in from the back to provide it, which may work but given we have the likes of Burns, Twelvetrees (he can be as good as Greenwood in my opinion) and Joseph in the squad I'd rather not rely on our fullback making things happen in midfield.
I've taken the thread over a little though. Lets see how he lines us up on Saturday, I might be doing him a disservice.
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I think you need someone with a bit of unpredictability at 10 or 12. Will Greenwood provided that during our best years, which allowed the others to be steady influences, its also why Autralia have managed to stay near the top of the world for years despite having a very average pack, and it's why Carter is a big part of NZ going from a decent side who never quite made the leap to being world cup winners. At the crunch games you need your pack to provide a platform but you also need inspiration, our current tactic is based around Goode stepping in from the back to provide it, which may work but given we have the likes of Burns, Twelvetrees (he can be as good as Greenwood in my opinion) and Joseph in the squad I'd rather not rely on our fullback making things happen in midfield.
I've taken the thread over a little though. Lets see how he lines us up on Saturday, I might be doing him a disservice.
You haven't really, Paul. You seem to have a good knowledge of the players and rugby in general. Did you play the game?
I agree that the one thing we, England, has lacked in recent time is the 'Unpredictability' of a player.
You mentioned Will Greenwood, but also Jason Robinson. Remember his try v Wales in 2003? I don't think anyone expected him to take on that run.
JR has to be my favourite England player of all time. His play seemed to mirror very much how I played, winger to fullback etc.
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You haven't really, Paul. You seem to have a good knowledge of the players and rugby in general. Did you play the game?
Yes, played at a decent standard for about 10 years (mainly at 8 ) and I'm a qualified coach and referee.
Foden reminds me a lot of Robinson, not quite as nippy over 10yards but looks for gaps in the same way and has similar fluid movement. We have a youngster coming through who will be better though, he's only really in his first season at the top level but London Irish have a kid called Anthony Watson who is a bit special. If they can keep him grounded and get the rest of his game up to standard he's a superstar in the making.
The difference though, Greenwood created gaps whereas Robinson exploited gaps.
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I still want to see Freddie Burns starting. I dont know what more he can do to justify his inclusion in the starting line up.
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I still want to see Freddie Burns starting. I dont know what more he can do to justify his inclusion in the starting line up.
Move from Gloucester ?
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Well, if International recognition if what he desires, you might be right...
Fucking Leicester mafia.
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I still want to see Freddie Burns starting. I dont know what more he can do to justify his inclusion in the starting line up.
Stay fit.
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Come on Scotland... Please win at least one game.
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Why is strettle in the squad, what possible benefit is he going to bring from the bench? Foden or Joseph would've provided an impact and a scoring threat, Strettle is a winger who can't finish, if you want him to be defensively solid and work hard then start him, but ashton, brown and goode are clearly his back 3 of choice, a defensive winger on the bench is a really strange choice.
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I too would like to see Freddie Burns in the 23, but if he isn't fit then he can't be picked.
Can't deny I am disappointed that Joseph has been released back to his club by Lancaster, was really looking forward to seeing how he shaped up on Saturday. However, I am now very intrigued to see what Twelvetrees brings to the party and feel his wide passing game will be able to bring in Goode, Brown and Ashton into play beautifully.
It appears that the team will be : Marler, Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Barritt, Brown, Ashton, Goode.
I don't think we can argue too much because the guys who played against New Zealand deserve the chance to back up what was probably the best 80 mins I have ever seen from an England side.
If Twelvetrees goes as well as we hope and then Manu is fit for Ireland we have got a conundrum, which is as it should be. Twelvetrees with Manu sounds quite appetising in attack and to be fair Barritt has gone to another level in the last 3 months and is playing superbly. All good options.
On a personal note, the good old ERSC came through with some late tickets yesterday and I find myself off to Twickenham again this weekend, can't wait.
England by 12, Wales by 3, France by 15 this weekend.
Overall I believe England and France will be top with 4 wins and 1 defeat and may even find Wales with that record too.
Enjoy everyone !!!
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It's on again, the big one; can (current 5 Nations Champions) Scotland finish above Italy?!?!
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I got offered tickets for Saturday at Twickenham. I turned them down such is my Villa related depression now. I do have Italy tickets by which time I may be on the mend.
Saturday, can't see it going any other way than an England win, no tries for Scotland, England by 15.
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I'm off to see the French. Should be the decider in my opinion. Pity it's a 5 o'clock kick off. Too much drinking time before.
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I'm off to see the French. Should be the decider in my opinion. Pity it's a 5 o'clock kick off. Too much drinking time before.
Me too. I wouldn't have used the word pity though.
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Twelvetrees starts which is good. Overall I'm fairly happy with that team, hopefully it'll do the job.
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I too would like to see Freddie Burns in the 23, but if he isn't fit then he can't be picked.
Can't deny I am disappointed that Joseph has been released back to his club by Lancaster, was really looking forward to seeing how he shaped up on Saturday. However, I am now very intrigued to see what Twelvetrees brings to the party and feel his wide passing game will be able to bring in Goode, Brown and Ashton into play beautifully.
It appears that the team will be : Marler, Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Barritt, Brown, Ashton, Goode.
I don't think we can argue too much because the guys who played against New Zealand deserve the chance to back up what was probably the best 80 mins I have ever seen from an England side.
If Twelvetrees goes as well as we hope and then Manu is fit for Ireland we have got a conundrum, which is as it should be. Twelvetrees with Manu sounds quite appetising in attack and to be fair Barritt has gone to another level in the last 3 months and is playing superbly. All good options.
On a personal note, the good old ERSC came through with some late tickets yesterday and I find myself off to Twickenham again this weekend, can't wait.
England by 12, Wales by 3, France by 15 this weekend.
Overall I believe England and France will be top with 4 wins and 1 defeat and may even find Wales with that record too.
Enjoy everyone !!!
Did you get offered tickets for the Scotland game by the England Supporters Club. I got an email on Monday saying some were left over but i'm working, damn it.
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Looking pretty dominant, impressive stuff.
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Really good performance from england, there were a couple of poor decisions at times which led to scotland tries and cost us a couple but we were so dominant it didn't matter.
Farrell got Motm and was a good shout but I can't agree, Wood put in a nearly faultless performance at 6 and then 8. He was truly exceptional.
Just to add a little, late on there was a bit where lawes came through and won the ball exceptionally to setup a chance, the best bit was, before that he made a massive hit to put the scots on the back foot, then got up and drove straight through them before beating the first receiver to the ball. It was a perfect snapshot of just how good he is, give it another year and him and launchbury are going to be the best lock pairing around for a long long time.
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Sounds like Farrell had a great game and is really progressing now.
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His passing was much better today than his previous starts, if he plays at that level regularly then he deserves to be first choice.
I thought the whole side were good but we got a bit sloppy when twelvetrees (who had an excellent debut) and goode went off, there was some really poor decision making after that, Brown in particular made a couple of shocking decisions.
Strettle was pointless though, very average player who came on and was average...
Of the other subs Lawes, Haskell and Vunipola all had a positive effect and Hartley for Youngs was seemless.
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Well on England and Ireland on for Grand Slam then.
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Well on England and Ireland on for Grand Slam then.
and Italy ;)
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That's a great result for the Italians today.
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I too would like to see Freddie Burns in the 23, but if he isn't fit then he can't be picked.
Can't deny I am disappointed that Joseph has been released back to his club by Lancaster, was really looking forward to seeing how he shaped up on Saturday. However, I am now very intrigued to see what Twelvetrees brings to the party and feel his wide passing game will be able to bring in Goode, Brown and Ashton into play beautifully.
It appears that the team will be : Marler, Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Barritt, Brown, Ashton, Goode.
I don't think we can argue too much because the guys who played against New Zealand deserve the chance to back up what was probably the best 80 mins I have ever seen from an England side.
If Twelvetrees goes as well as we hope and then Manu is fit for Ireland we have got a conundrum, which is as it should be. Twelvetrees with Manu sounds quite appetising in attack and to be fair Barritt has gone to another level in the last 3 months and is playing superbly. All good options.
On a personal note, the good old ERSC came through with some late tickets yesterday and I find myself off to Twickenham again this weekend, can't wait.
England by 12, Wales by 3, France by 15 this weekend.
Overall I believe England and France will be top with 4 wins and 1 defeat and may even find Wales with that record too.
Enjoy everyone !!!
Did you get offered tickets for the Scotland game by the England Supporters Club. I got an email on Monday saying some were left over but i'm working, damn it.
Yes, I got the same email last Monday and picked it up just in time on Tuesday to get the tickets. As usual great day
How good was Twelvetrees?. He now offers a completely different dimension to England's back play and if Farrell keeps playing like that, then we have got something special going.
I thought it was a superb performance all over from England and hard to pick many faults save for the fact they left a few too many tries out there and were sloppy after the substitutions. What a superb bench though to be able to bring on Lawes, Haskell, Vunipola and Hartley. The power there is frightening.
Can't wait for the Ireland game on Sunday and very confident if we play with that intensity again. Real shame Ben Morgan looks like being unfit as I thought he was having a stormer before he went off, but Wood to 8 and Haskell doesn't really weaken us does it?.
Well done Italy as well yesterday, fantastico !!!
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Twelvetrees was immense, personally I had him as MOTM ahead of Farrell, just.
A couple of better decisions when inside the oppositions 22 and we could have won by 30+ points, it will come if they keep on believeing.
Ireland at the weekend now looks like the decider, maybe, lot of rugby to come after that though.
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Twelvetrees was immense, personally I had him as MOTM ahead of Farrell, just.
A couple of better decisions when inside the oppositions 22 and we could have won by 30+ points, it will come if they keep on believeing.
Ireland at the weekend now looks like the decider, maybe, lot of rugby to come after that though.
Ireland will be the decider, no question. They have France at home, so that will be fine. Italy will huff and puff, and the Welsh are just plain shit - although they will raise their game against us, no doubt.
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Twelvetrees was immense, personally I had him as MOTM ahead of Farrell, just.
A couple of better decisions when inside the oppositions 22 and we could have won by 30+ points, it will come if they keep on believeing.
Ireland at the weekend now looks like the decider, maybe, lot of rugby to come after that though.
This is what was so impressive about the performance, no one in the pack deserves any criticism and it's pretty much the same in the backs other than some dodgy decisions late on. You could easily pick any of 9-10 players as man of the match.
For example I thought Ashton had a great game as well, never really got the ball in space but was always, involved and making the extra man, and his try was exceptional strength to get through 2 strong guys.
I won't strongly disagree with anyone who started as man of the match, I just think Wood makes the whole team better, we just look much more organised when he's on the pitch.
For the next game there are only a couple of small tweaks I think we need.
Manu will be back in so we need to fit him in either on the pitch or on the bench, but Twelvetrees and Barritt should stay in the squad as well, which means no room for a wing/FB replacement which worries me a little so I'd take Waldrom off the bench and replace him with Joseph, on the basis that Haskell and Wood can move around the back row to cover and Lawes or Launchbury could both fill in well at 6 if needed. Finally Burns in to cover 10 is better as he's had a fair bit of exposure at full back, and is quick enough to work there.
Not a simple decision but I'm fairly sure he'll take the easier and dump twelvetrees, which will be a big error.
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I would ditch Brad for Manu in the centres to be frank. It might be a little bold mind.
Twelvetrees looks a lot like Micheal Caine in Get Carter as well I think. Shouldn't be important to selection but there you go!
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I too would like to see Freddie Burns in the 23, but if he isn't fit then he can't be picked.
Can't deny I am disappointed that Joseph has been released back to his club by Lancaster, was really looking forward to seeing how he shaped up on Saturday. However, I am now very intrigued to see what Twelvetrees brings to the party and feel his wide passing game will be able to bring in Goode, Brown and Ashton into play beautifully.
It appears that the team will be : Marler, Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Barritt, Brown, Ashton, Goode.
I don't think we can argue too much because the guys who played against New Zealand deserve the chance to back up what was probably the best 80 mins I have ever seen from an England side.
If Twelvetrees goes as well as we hope and then Manu is fit for Ireland we have got a conundrum, which is as it should be. Twelvetrees with Manu sounds quite appetising in attack and to be fair Barritt has gone to another level in the last 3 months and is playing superbly. All good options.
On a personal note, the good old ERSC came through with some late tickets yesterday and I find myself off to Twickenham again this weekend, can't wait.
England by 12, Wales by 3, France by 15 this weekend.
Overall I believe England and France will be top with 4 wins and 1 defeat and may even find Wales with that record too.
Enjoy everyone !!!
Did you get offered tickets for the Scotland game by the England Supporters Club. I got an email on Monday saying some were left over but i'm working, damn it.
Yes, I got the same email last Monday and picked it up just in time on Tuesday to get the tickets. As usual great day
How good was Twelvetrees?. He now offers a completely different dimension to England's back play and if Farrell keeps playing like that, then we have got something special going.
I thought it was a superb performance all over from England and hard to pick many faults save for the fact they left a few too many tries out there and were sloppy after the substitutions. What a superb bench though to be able to bring on Lawes, Haskell, Vunipola and Hartley. The power there is frightening.
Can't wait for the Ireland game on Sunday and very confident if we play with that intensity again. Real shame Ben Morgan looks like being unfit as I thought he was having a stormer before he went off, but Wood to 8 and Haskell doesn't really weaken us does it?.
Well done Italy as well yesterday, fantastico !!!
Nice one, I hope I get a similar email on the Monday before the game against France.
Twelvetrees offered England more variety in attack. Surely he can't be dropped for Manu although there are calls for Barrit to make way instead. Nice option to have.
Italy were terrific yesterday. Michalak had one of his off days again.
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The frogs did me in my spread bet. Gits.
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Tweets and inside knowledge are suggesting that Manu will be on the bench on Sunday and Haskell will replace the injured Morgan.
I'll nail my colours to the mast and won't hide the fact I am disappointed we haven't gone for the bolder option of Twelvetrees and Manu as our centres on Sunday. Can't help thinking that we have picked a side with Ireland in mind rather than worrying about what we are going to do. I think that he wants to get them both in the same team as soon as possible, but is loathe to drop BB because he has been playing so well?
However, our bench will be exceptionally strong again on Sunday and the power and skill to come off it with the likes of Lawes, Vunipola x2, Hartley, Care, Flood and Manu is actually quite frightening.
Very quietly and in a comparatively short space of time, Lancaster has got together a strong squad with plenty of depth.
Looking forward to a Villa/England win double on Sunday
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Tweets and inside knowledge are suggesting that Manu will be on the bench on Sunday and Haskell will replace the injured Morgan.
I'll nail my colours to the mast and won't hide the fact I am disappointed we haven't gone for the bolder option of Twelvetrees and Manu as our centres on Sunday. Can't help thinking that we have picked a side with Ireland in mind rather than worrying about what we are going to do. I think that he wants to get them both in the same team as soon as possible, but is loathe to drop BB because he has been playing so well?
However, our bench will be exceptionally strong again on Sunday and the power and skill to come off it with the likes of Lawes, Vunipola x2, Hartley, Care, Flood and Manu is actually quite frightening.
Very quietly and in a comparatively short space of time, Lancaster has got together a strong squad with plenty of depth.
Looking forward to a Villa/England win double on Sunday
The depth has been coming for years, we have an excellent 'academy' structure in english rugby now, with each band of youngsters stronger than those before. Fly half for example, we had Flood and Lamb, then Myler, Geraghty and Cipriani, then Burns and Farrell, and now Ford is coming through better than the lot of them (and he's not the only decent young fly half around). It's the same all over the pitch and is a success based on work start before we won the world cup when Woodward realised that he had little coming through behind the squad he took in 2003.
Regarding your Bench - replace Mako with Marler (and add Corbs to the starting line up) and Flood with Burns, and I'd switch Hartley and Youngs at 2. You'd then have a bench full of impact players ready to come on and change the game.
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Tweets and inside knowledge are suggesting that Manu will be on the bench on Sunday and Haskell will replace the injured Morgan.
I'll nail my colours to the mast and won't hide the fact I am disappointed we haven't gone for the bolder option of Twelvetrees and Manu as our centres on Sunday. Can't help thinking that we have picked a side with Ireland in mind rather than worrying about what we are going to do. I think that he wants to get them both in the same team as soon as possible, but is loathe to drop BB because he has been playing so well?
However, our bench will be exceptionally strong again on Sunday and the power and skill to come off it with the likes of Lawes, Vunipola x2, Hartley, Care, Flood and Manu is actually quite frightening.
Very quietly and in a comparatively short space of time, Lancaster has got together a strong squad with plenty of depth.
Looking forward to a Villa/England win double on Sunday
The depth has been coming for years, we have an excellent 'academy' structure in english rugby now, with each band of youngsters stronger than those before. Fly half for example, we had Flood and Lamb, then Myler, Geraghty and Cipriani, then Burns and Farrell, and now Ford is coming through better than the lot of them (and he's not the only decent young fly half around). It's the same all over the pitch and is a success based on work start before we won the world cup when Woodward realised that he had little coming through behind the squad he took in 2003.
Regarding your Bench - replace Mako with Marler (and add Corbs to the starting line up) and Flood with Burns, and I'd switch Hartley and Youngs at 2. You'd then have a bench full of impact players ready to come on and change the game.
I thought Marler had a decent game last week but still prefer Mako too him. I agree with you about Corbs though and if he was playing this weekend I would fancy us to absolutely marmalise the Irish front 5 and put an end to this daft talk of Healy and Best as 2/3rd's of the Lions front row.
I am presuming that Freddie is now fit and will be playing for Glaws at Saints on Saturday. Like you, I would really like to see him get some game time and we should build our future fly half's around Farrell (he has come on a ton since NZ), Burns and Ford.
Hartley and Youngs is a tight one isn't it?. I tend to got with you Paul and feel that Hartley would be better starting and Youngs coming on. Not even mentioned Joe Gray at Quins who I really rate as well.
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Youngs has the extra pace which we could get better use out of later in the game.
I like Gray as well, he's a year or 2 away from being ready for full internationals though, better for him to be with the saxons for the time being.
Marler is a toughie. He has a similar personality to Weimann, in that he's a much better player when he's angry, get Marler angry and he's a bull, he's easily the strongest of our front row but needs some encouragement to put that strength to use. He's young enough to learn though.
Corbs is miles ahead of both though, like Cole, if he's fit he has to start. Ditto if both are fit they have to be 1 and 3 for the lions.
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If Farrell can continue to put in displays like he did last week and against NZ, he could be a top player. His game has come on a lot.
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I was supposed to be decorating this weekend, alas, the paint hasn't been delivered so now rather than having to secure a pass just for the Villa (it obviously goes without saying but does eat into the credit column a bit) I've got one for free for this too.
Of course I'd have just painted faster anyway, but that's not the point. Having said all that, inevitably the Mrs will have some cunning plan up her sleeve to whisk me off to look at baby grows or some such thing. Fingers crossed fro the snow to be heavy....
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Get her to solo view DIY shops for colour schemes. Pretend you are interested in everything she thinks of.
Don't tell her you don't give a shit about paragraph one. Never. Under any circumstances.
I did...
Ps - England by 8 - 10.
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Didn't see any of Saturdays games but understand the frogs got beaten again. That's a shame.
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Yes the rifle droppers went down again in a pretty dull affair. The Stade de France pitch was atrocious, surprised there weren't more injuries and I'm sure the IRB will be in touch.
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Yes the rifle droppers went down again in a pretty dull affair. The Stade de France pitch was atrocious, surprised there weren't more injuries and I'm sure the IRB will be in touch.
Agree, thought the pitch was a disgrace.
Did they give any reason/excuse? Or was it down to the shear volume of rain?
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I have had a small bet with a work colleague that England will be within 6 points or better. Still not too confident though.
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Well not the free flowing stuff of last week, but conditions put paid to that. England were excellent defensively and Ireland wouldn't have scored a try if they'd played for a fortnight. Farrell really is maturing into something a bit special, and Ben Youngs and Robshaw were also excellent.
Only gripes were Tuilagi not putting the try away and a bit of indiscipline at the start of the second half.
That's Englands toughest test by a distance over with now, and provided they continue to play to their capabilities, id be stunned if they didnt complete the grand slam.
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That was a coming of age performance. Never going to be pretty rugby, but we were more disciplined and excellent when we went to 14 men. Brilliant win in the end.
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Great win for England,
Great win for Villa,
Great weekend for me :)
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Farrell is turning into a super player.
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Farrell is turning into a super player.
If I'm not mistaken he's the same age as when Johnny Wilkinson made his breakthrough.
I thought Wilko was magnificent, but Farrell has the potential to be even better
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Farrell's game has really come on in the last few months and his game management is great.
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That was a proper battle of attrition, first half England were great, so composed, so calm, great decision making. Second half the paddys were always going to come at England, but again we were calm after the first 20 minutes & to put 6 points on with Haskell off was the icing on the cake.
Healy should get a citing for the stamp the dirty bastard but fucking hell Haskell could have cost the game with his stupid spoilt brat antics.
The one confrontation I was really looking forward to was Barrit on O'Driscoll, it never happened, O'Driscoll was anonymous.
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Poor decision by the ref to sinbin Haskell, It certainly looked to me as if he was trying to get out of the way
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Healy's stamp was a disgrace and so was Wood's attempt to defend it.
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Farrell's game has really come on in the last few months and his game management is great.
What I like about him is how cool and calm he seems - aside from kicking and tactical awareness being able to stay calm under pressure is probably the most important thing for a fly half and Farrell always looks composed. Certainly more composed than Flaky Flood (although I might be a bit biased here as I don't like people called Toby).
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That game showed England can man up when needed. Cardiff is the next test.
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It was a really professional performance, nice to see with can win ugly against a side who like to niggle.
I think that's probably the toughest test for us this year so, if we can keep the momentum and handle the pressure I think we've got a great chance of a grand slam this year.
France look like they're struggling to carry the form from the league into internationals, I'd suggest because the key players at all the clubs aren't french.
Italy look better than ever but didn't cope at all with Scotland having a high defensive line. Our defensive game is based around closing the space, much like Scotland (but we're better at it), so we'll have similar success.
Wales just aren't clicking. 2 good 2nd halves but if they start against us like they have in the last 2 we'll have buried them by half time. Even if they get it together our pack looks more than capable of dominating against them and they look totally out of sorts in the half backs, where youngs in particular will have a lot of joy.
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An outstanding win played in awful conditions against a far more experienced win. Coupled with the Villa win, I guess I have had worse Sunday afternoon's?
Watched the game on Sky+ once I got back and so impressed with our physicality and composure in the rain. Farrell has really impressed me since the NZ game and has taken his game to a level I didn't think he possessed. Humble pie is tasting good at this moment !!!
I don't think we can underestimate the strength of our bench coming on in the 2nd half. When you compare it to a 36 yr old ROG entering the fray and we can call on the likes of Hartley, Lawes, Tuilagi and Vunipola it speaks volumes for what Lancaster has built. The fact that Care and Flood didn't even get on is testament to that.
I am always wary of France and notice they have made 5 changes to their squad but if it is a decent day I just can't see them coping with us and the pace which we will play. Yesterday went against most of what Lancaster believes the game should be played like and we still handled it. The game in Paris was equally as poor but they had lovely dry conditions for that one.
I hope and believe that it will all come down to Wales in March and having seen Scrum V on BBC Wales last night they, as usual, will be right up for England and probably play their best game. The bias towards Wales and against England on that programme is a sight to behold. They picked a Lions team last night, Kingsley Jones selection and had 6 Welsh, 4 Irish and only 3 English in it. Have I missed 38 pts v New Zealand and a draw away in South Africa?
Still think we should tinker with the team v France and I would be looking at swapping Hartley and Youngs around. Morgan must play if fit over Haskell. Tuilagi will step back in I am presuming and I would love to see him and Twelvetrees have a run together. Rest of the team as is.
Nearly forgot, Alex Goode and Mike Brown gave a masterclass in diffusing the high bomb yesterday. Sublime !!!!
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An outstanding win played in awful conditions against a far more experienced win. Coupled with the Villa win, I guess I have had worse Sunday afternoon's?
Watched the game on Sky+ once I got back and so impressed with our physicality and composure in the rain. Farrell has really impressed me since the NZ game and has taken his game to a level I didn't think he possessed. Humble pie is tasting good at this moment !!!
I don't think we can underestimate the strength of our bench coming on in the 2nd half. When you compare it to a 36 yr old ROG entering the fray and we can call on the likes of Hartley, Lawes, Tuilagi and Vunipola it speaks volumes for what Lancaster has built. The fact that Care and Flood didn't even get on is testament to that.
I am always wary of France and notice they have made 5 changes to their squad but if it is a decent day I just can't see them coping with us and the pace which we will play. Yesterday went against most of what Lancaster believes the game should be played like and we still handled it. The game in Paris was equally as poor but they had lovely dry conditions for that one.
I hope and believe that it will all come down to Wales in March and having seen Scrum V on BBC Wales last night they, as usual, will be right up for England and probably play their best game. The bias towards Wales and against England on that programme is a sight to behold. They picked a Lions team last night, Kingsley Jones selection and had 6 Welsh, 4 Irish and only 3 English in it. Have I missed 38 pts v New Zealand and a draw away in South Africa?
Still think we should tinker with the team v France and I would be looking at swapping Hartley and Youngs around. Morgan must play if fit over Haskell. Tuilagi will step back in I am presuming and I would love to see him and Twelvetrees have a run together. Rest of the team as is.
Nearly forgot, Alex Goode and Mike Brown gave a masterclass in diffusing the high bomb yesterday. Sublime !!!!
Further to my thoughts on hartley/youngs I think we're unlikely to see Manu and Twelvetrees start together. The main reason being that Barritt just doesn't have the game to make an impact from the bench so you'd only really want him to bring on if we were leading narrowly and needed to tighten up.
Morgan has to start if he's fit. Wood played ok, but he's far better as a 6 and Haskell was very average, and then went down a step for me by being an idiot, he's very lucky that his ridiculous yellow didn't cost us. There was no need for him to try to disrupt things, it was nothing ball in a 'safe' area of the pitch with our defence lined up. Do that on your own tryline and under pressure is one thing, doing it in midfield is stupidity, and he's supposed to be one of the more experienced players. I'd probably drop him from the bench as well, the dumbass.
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[quote author=paul_e Further to my thoughts on hartley/youngs I think we're unlikely to see Manu and Twelvetrees start together. The main reason being that Barritt just doesn't have the game to make an impact from the bench so you'd only really want him to bring on if we were leading narrowly and needed to tighten up.
Morgan has to start if he's fit. Wood played ok, but he's far better as a 6 and Haskell was very average, and then went down a step for me by being an idiot, he's very lucky that his ridiculous yellow didn't cost us. There was no need for him to try to disrupt things, it was nothing ball in a 'safe' area of the pitch with our defence lined up. Do that on your own tryline and under pressure is one thing, doing it in midfield is stupidity, and he's supposed to be one of the more experienced players. I'd probably drop him from the bench as well, the dumbass.
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No I think if you pair Twelvetrees and Manu, which I believe SL wants to do, then Barritt misses out completely unfortunately. You need someone like a Jonny May covering the outside backs in reality. He can play several positions and looks to be fit again as shown by the two tries on Saturday v Northampton.
I quite like Haskell coming on from the bench and don't for a moment believe he will be dropped. I would like to see Billy Vunipola in amongst it though. Maybe he will be on the bench for the Italy game?
Am totally with you now on Hartley starting and Youngs appearing for the last 20 mins. As you said, suits the style we play perfectly having them that way around.
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I don't think Haskell will be dropped but I don't think he's undroppable and I'd quite like the message it sends about discipline around the breakdown. In the last 10 years we've been an easy target for giving away penalties by being very naive in that area. Lancaster showing he won't stand for stupid yellow cards in areas where they're avoidable would be as much a political message to the referees as anything else, we've certainly been treated a lot more strictly around the breakdown than the likes of Ireland and New Zealand, who have almost had license to slow the ball down in recent years.
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I don't think it can be underestimated what it takes to win playing for England. 4 out of the 5 teams we play want to beat us more than anyone else. That's why the slightest drop in performance level means we rarely get away with it. with that in mind,and with the confidence that's running through the squad at the moment, although still a way off, a Grand Slam is not out of the question.
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I hope and believe that it will all come down to Wales in March and having seen Scrum V on BBC Wales last night they, as usual, will be right up for England and probably play their best game. The bias towards Wales and against England on that programme is a sight to behold. They picked a Lions team last night, Kingsley Jones selection and had 6 Welsh, 4 Irish and only 3 English in it. Have I missed 38 pts v New Zealand and a draw away in South Africa?
It is a Welsh programme, so what do you expect? As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, I have family from Wales so have an interest in Welsh rugby. In terms of the Lions, Warren Gatland has a particular style of playing (often referred to as 'Gatlandball' in Wales) that might not suit a number of the current English players. Yes, England are looking like the strongest team at the moment, but don't be surprised if a number of the team are overlooked in the summer.
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the lions selection is as much political as anything else so expect a lot of players to be picked for reasons unrelated to their ability.
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I hope and believe that it will all come down to Wales in March and having seen Scrum V on BBC Wales last night they, as usual, will be right up for England and probably play their best game. The bias towards Wales and against England on that programme is a sight to behold. They picked a Lions team last night, Kingsley Jones selection and had 6 Welsh, 4 Irish and only 3 English in it. Have I missed 38 pts v New Zealand and a draw away in South Africa?
It is a Welsh programme, so what do you expect? As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, I have family from Wales so have an interest in Welsh rugby. In terms of the Lions, Warren Gatland has a particular style of playing (often referred to as 'Gatlandball' in Wales) that might not suit a number of the current English players. Yes, England are looking like the strongest team at the moment, but don't be surprised if a number of the team are overlooked in the summer.
I am half Welsh myself, so I too take an interest in Welsh Rugby. Yes it is a Welsh programme I accept that, but that doesn't mean it can't have a little bit of objectivity about England?. They seem to manage it with all of the other nations in the tournament but can't really bring themselves to even give a smidgeon of praise to us?
I thought the comments of Tom Shanklin in particular were illuminating, he was practically salivating at the thought of Wales being the ones to derail a potential Grand Slam for England. Now if it was Scotland coming too MS for the last game on a GS, it wouldn't even be mentioned. You and I both know that
In my opinion Wales won't ever reach the heights they could do, while they are obsessed with what England are doing. They raise their game 50% when playing us and if they could only do the same when they play the big boys, perhaps it wouldn't be 50 plus years waiting on a victory over NZ or 4/5 yrs over Australia?
I actually think most of the Welsh pundits on Rugby are great, Ieun Evans, Scott Quinnell, Lyn Jones, Gareth Edwards was fantastic, Benny etc etc, but some who are employed by Scrum V especially Jiffy, Shanklin, Gwyn Jones are terrible. While I am at it, so is Guscott too. I will take the presenter Jason Mohammed out of it because I have met him and he is a lovely fella :-)
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Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.
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The strange thing with the rugby commentators is that the welsh, scottish and irish pundits are generally unashamedly biased but the english commentators seem to want to prove how neutral they are by actually being anti-english at times. The number of times I've seen a dubious decision go agianst us and for the english commentator to side with the ref is scary, you never see it with commentators for the other nations, they all go out of their way to 'defend their own'. Moore is probably the worst for it.
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The strange thing with the rugby commentators is that the welsh, scottish and irish pundits are generally unashamedly biased but the english commentators seem to want to prove how neutral they are by actually being anti-english at times. The number of times I've seen a dubious decision go agianst us and for the english commentator to side with the ref is scary, you never see it with commentators for the other nations, they all go out of their way to 'defend their own'. Moore is probably the worst for it.
Totally agree and it all comes back to the same aspect, the perceived "English arrogance". I mean even bloody Telfer was at it the other week and it does get a little wearing. You couldn't find a less arrogant team than the current England Rugby squad and yet still the same old crap is trotted out year after year after year. And yet when they pick these Lions squads with 16 Welsh and 13 Irish in. !!!!! Imagine if we did the same in England?.
As Peter W said earlier, every nation bar Italy raises their game tenfold for when they play England. I've been to Edinburgh 4 times in the last 10 years for the Calcutta Cup and the way they whip it up inside the stadium is unreal compared to when they play Wales and Ireland. Thay said, always have a great weekend up there and love the people and the city
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The worst thing is, the reality is there probably should be 16-17 english players the squad, There could be little argument with picking our entire starting line up (from dublin) other than Marler, Brown, Goode and maybe only one of Twelvetrees and Barritt (Marler because he's only in covering Corbs, Brown and Goode because there are a lot of good wing and fullback options). So 11-12 there, add in Corbs for 13, Stefon Amitage is the best 7 in europe so him in as 14 Manu is guaranteed a spot so 15 and Lawes has to go to make 16. That's ignoring Croft, Burns, Johnny May, Billy Vunipola, Foden who are all exceptional talents and start at least an outside chance of selection.
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Completely agree Paul, we have a very strong squad now and behind that there is a lot of talent.
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I hope and believe that it will all come down to Wales in March and having seen Scrum V on BBC Wales last night they, as usual, will be right up for England and probably play their best game. The bias towards Wales and against England on that programme is a sight to behold. They picked a Lions team last night, Kingsley Jones selection and had 6 Welsh, 4 Irish and only 3 English in it. Have I missed 38 pts v New Zealand and a draw away in South Africa?
It is a Welsh programme, so what do you expect? As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, I have family from Wales so have an interest in Welsh rugby. In terms of the Lions, Warren Gatland has a particular style of playing (often referred to as 'Gatlandball' in Wales) that might not suit a number of the current English players. Yes, England are looking like the strongest team at the moment, but don't be surprised if a number of the team are overlooked in the summer.
I am half Welsh myself, so I too take an interest in Welsh Rugby. Yes it is a Welsh programme I accept that, but that doesn't mean it can't have a little bit of objectivity about England?. They seem to manage it with all of the other nations in the tournament but can't really bring themselves to even give a smidgeon of praise to us?
I thought the comments of Tom Shanklin in particular were illuminating, he was practically salivating at the thought of Wales being the ones to derail a potential Grand Slam for England. Now if it was Scotland coming too MS for the last game on a GS, it wouldn't even be mentioned. You and I both know that
In my opinion Wales won't ever reach the heights they could do, while they are obsessed with what England are doing. They raise their game 50% when playing us and if they could only do the same when they play the big boys, perhaps it wouldn't be 50 plus years waiting on a victory over NZ or 4/5 yrs over Australia?
I actually think most of the Welsh pundits on Rugby are great, Ieun Evans, Scott Quinnell, Lyn Jones, Gareth Edwards was fantastic, Benny etc etc, but some who are employed by Scrum V especially Jiffy, Shanklin, Gwyn Jones are terrible. While I am at it, so is Guscott too. I will take the presenter Jason Mohammed out of it because I have met him and he is a lovely fella :-)
I would have to disagree with that somewhat Dave. Of course England is always going to be a massive game for Wales, but I think the days of "we don't care if we finish bottom as long as we beat the English" are long gone. Since the formation of the Celtic League, a rivalary with Ireland has also developed, especially as they have been so successful at club level. I think most Welsh fans accept that although victories over Northern Hemisphere teams are great, the record against Southern Hemisphere teams is not good enough and I think most would swap a win over NZ or SA for a win over England these days. You say Wales won't ever reach the heights they could do, but it could be viewed that 3 Grand Slams and a World Cup semi-final in 8 years is not a bad return for a country with such a small playing base.
As for your views on the Welsh pundits, I think a lot of Welsh rugby fans share those views as well. If you go on any Welsh rugby messageboard, you will find they are flooded with posts about how poor Jiffy is as a commentator. I really admired him as a player, but his commentating is not great. Funnily enough, he is much better and has a far more professional tone when he is commentating on Rugby League. That said, it's not like the rest of the pundits aren't biased either. Phillip Matthews and Andy Nicol are extremely one-eyed, and John Inverdale is ridiculously biased at times. None of those, however, come near to the levels of bias of Ian Robertson on Radio 5. Still can't work out why a Scotsman is so pro-English.
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My old club had 4 welsh guys and all of them were happier with an english defeat than a welsh win. 2 of them refused to enter the clubhouse for 2 months after the 2003 WC because of all the 'smug english bastards'. I can't beleive anyone with more than a passing regard for european rugby wouldn't regard us as the biggest scalp for most of the other sides (other than italy, who always seem most up for the french).
The other big thing about the welsh is that they always seem to be a good side when all the other teams are having problems, as soon as one of england, france or ireland are in form the welsh game falls apart, it's really strange.
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Ex-Wales coach in first political move....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21435112
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Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.
Nor can I, that said Brian Moore is a national treasure but pundit & commentator he is not.
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Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.
Nor can I, that said Brian Moore is a national treasure but pundit & commentator he is not.
See I like Brian Moore as a commentator. The Butler - Moore combination is by far the best rugby commentary team on the BBC.
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I think Gatland's comments on selecting too many English players for the Lions are a disgrace, and frankly he shouldn't be in the role if he isn't selecting the best side available based on performance.
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Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.
Nor can I, that said Brian Moore is a national treasure but pundit & commentator he is not.
See I like Brian Moore as a commentator. The Butler - Moore combination is by far the best rugby commentary team on the BBC.
Not trying to antagonise but I just can't believe anyone rates Eddie Butler as a commentator?. He has tried presenting, co-commentating and now the full commentator and he is equally pish at all three of them. He fails to recognise players all of the time, I mean when BOD scored last week it was a good tens seconds before Butler recognised who it was. The stand out Rugby commentator on the BBC by an absolute country mile is Andrew Cotter.
As for Gatland's comments?. Words fail me. I just can't believe he has seriously said that and it says to me that the squad won't be picked on ability at all. Like Graham Henry before him I don't think he has "got it". The meaning of the Lions or the history. It's a complete farce and I agree that he should be relieved of his post immediately and sent back to Cardiff to concentrate on his day job. Leave the rest of the coaches and beg Sir Ian to come back once more.
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Ex-Wales coach in first political move....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21435112
What a bell end, he does know he can't pick New Zealanders right?
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Yep it's absolutely outrageous, and his position should be considered after those comments. He's clearly not the right man for the job.
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I did say it would be political, but the comments today are worse than I expected. Giving all 4 nations decent representation is clearly important but not at the expense of creating a team capable of winning and as things stand, a squad with a high english contingent has the most chance of winning the tour, because they're the players who are in form. Welsh rugby is in a hole at the minute (the regions are poor and the national team has just won for the first time in 9) and they really should only be providing 6-7 players as it stands, with similar from Scotland and England and Ireland sharing the the bulk of the squad and providing 16-17 each. For example can you think of any back row from scotland or wales who deserves to be picked other than maybe Faletau at 8? Do either of them have a half back who can come close to challenging youngs/sexton/farrell?
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No none at all and Gatland has shown some real ignorance and frankly should resign if he can't be impartial.
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Lets wait and see on the squad but I'm totally prepared to be very disappointed by it. I expect there to be as many welsh as irish and english in the squad, which is wrong.
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I see Gatland is backtracking now.
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I've had a further think about this and my initial outrage has gone somewhat. I think I understand what Gatland is trying to say but a) he has said it in a clumsy way and b) he has made an unnecessary rod for his back.
I have been discussing this issue on twitter with Rick O'Shea from BBC Wales (whoops I'll just pick that name up that I have dropped there) and we were debating what would happen if there was a close call between say Ashton and Cuthbert for a wing spot?. Is the fact that Ashton is English going to count against him?. I don't think it probably will, but you can now see all sorts of accusations levelled at Gatland whatever squad he picks.
He just shouldn't have said a word really, but as I say, I don't now think he meant any harm by it.
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The strange thing with the rugby commentators is that the welsh, scottish and irish pundits are generally unashamedly biased but the english commentators seem to want to prove how neutral they are by actually being anti-english at times. The number of times I've seen a dubious decision go agianst us and for the english commentator to side with the ref is scary, you never see it with commentators for the other nations, they all go out of their way to 'defend their own'. Moore is probably the worst for it.
Bill McLaren was, and always will be, the best rugby commentator ever.
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I've had a further think about this and my initial outrage has gone somewhat. I think I understand what Gatland is trying to say but a) he has said it in a clumsy way and b) he has made an unnecessary rod for his back.
I have been discussing this issue on twitter with Rick O'Shea from BBC Wales (whoops I'll just pick that name up that I have dropped there) and we were debating what would happen if there was a close call between say Ashton and Cuthbert for a wing spot?. Is the fact that Ashton is English going to count against him?. I don't think it probably will, but you can now see all sorts of accusations levelled at Gatland whatever squad he picks.
He just shouldn't have said a word really, but as I say, I don't now think he meant any harm by it.
I'm with you on that, I don't think it was intended how a lot of people have taken it but, given he's an experienced international coach, regardless of how it was intended it was a really stupid thing to say.
He really has backed himself into a corner. If he only picks a handful of english players it will be down to him having an anti-england agenda, if he picks loads he'll be seen as having played up to the welsh support and made a fool himself. All he needs to say is that he plans to pick a team that can win the series.
The bit that he got totally wrong was:
And English players are targeted by other countries.
They are not always the most popular with other countries because of the history. People like having a pop at them.
Even if that's true there is no way a lions coach should be saying it a month or so before he picks the squad.
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Stupid Southern Hemisphere sod. He can't win now.
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3 week ban for healy, should've got twice that for me.
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Agreed. Took the soft option of him missing the rest of the tournament. Dirty bastard.
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For example can you think of any back row from scotland or wales who deserves to be picked other than maybe Faletau at 8? Do either of them have a half back who can come close to challenging youngs/sexton/farrell?
It again all comes down to the game plan Gatland is going to implement. If it is anything like the tactics he uses with Wales, then I can see a number of Welsh players featuring in the starting XV. You mention the back row, well there is Dan Lydiate for a start (Six Nations player of the tournament last year but been injured recently) who is instrumental in the way Gatland plays and I would think he will be a definite starter if he is fit. Playing against Australia and Pocock, the seven needs to be a natural in that position and do a lot of work on the floor. Robshaw and O'Brien aren't really natural sevens so I think he could look elsewhere. As for half back, I would expect Sexton and Farrell to battle it out for the fly-half spot, but think that Mike Phillips is nailed on to start at scrum half (I don't think he should start for Wales, but again he fits into Gatland's plans perfectly). As for the rest of the backs, I would expect two big centres and two big wingers, with Leigh Halfpenny at full-back because of his goal-kicking. Again, this probably wouldn't be my personal choice, but it could well be what Gatland goes with.
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For example can you think of any back row from scotland or wales who deserves to be picked other than maybe Faletau at 8? Do either of them have a half back who can come close to challenging youngs/sexton/farrell?
It again all comes down to the game plan Gatland is going to implement. If it is anything like the tactics he uses with Wales, then I can see a number of Welsh players featuring in the starting XV. You mention the back row, well there is Dan Lydiate for a start (Six Nations player of the tournament last year but been injured recently) who is instrumental in the way Gatland plays and I would think he will be a definite starter if he is fit. Playing against Australia and Pocock, the seven needs to be a natural in that position and do a lot of work on the floor. Robshaw and O'Brien aren't really natural sevens so I think he could look elsewhere. As for half back, I would expect Sexton and Farrell to battle it out for the fly-half spot, but think that Mike Phillips is nailed on to start at scrum half (I don't think he should start for Wales, but again he fits into Gatland's plans perfectly). As for the rest of the backs, I would expect two big centres and two big wingers, with Leigh Halfpenny at full-back because of his goal-kicking. Again, this probably wouldn't be my personal choice, but it could well be what Gatland goes with.
Agree with you on Lydiate, I think he will definitely tour and it will be a battle royal between him, Wood and Ferris for the number 6 spot. If the squad is picked on form then I believe as things stand that Robshaw should be 7 and captain. People say to me he can't do this and that, but yet he keeps getting man of the match performances and proving everyone wrong.
If Mike Phillips is anywhere near the test team then I will be gutted. Apart from his physicality I fail to see what else he brings to the party?. His passing is ponderous, he always takes a step or two before passing and worse than all of that, he never bloody looks up. Youngs, Care, Laidlaw, Murray, Lloyd Williams would all be well ahead of him for me from the current squads and I would pick Joe Simpson and Lee Dickson ahead of him as well.
I like Halfpenny and expect him to probably be in the test team but not sure if he will be there as a winger or full back.
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Lydiate was found out badly in the tour of oz and the autumn though, from what I recall; regardless, he's nowhere near the same level as Wood (who also gets my vote as captain) as far as I'm concerned. 7 is tough, if we want someone to go toe-to-toe with Pocock then you're really looking at a badly out of form warburton or an inexperienced armitage. If you go with Robshaw and O'brien (I'd pick those 2 and armitage as my options to go) then you need to play in the english and Irish style where everyone is expected to do the dirty work on the floor.
Phillips should be nowhere near the squad he has the worst technique of any scrum half in the 6N as far as I'm concerned, his success comes purely from the fact that he's big and strong (for a 9).
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Wood is outstanding and one of the major reasons for England's good form. He's an excellent player.
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Just been tweeted that Ben Morgan, Freddie Burns and Corbs are out for the France game, Corbs we knew about.
Now do we think that Lancaster may freshen things up a little, as part of his building process to the World Cup?. I am not advocating wholesale changes but just a little tinkering here and there?. I am really hoping that we see Billy Vunipola in the 23 now, probably too start off the bench. Hope we go with 36 and Manu as our centres (really harsh on Barritt but we need to see this combination). Maybe Lawes could come in for the game, although I guess that would be for Launchbury as Parling runs the lineout?. I would also really like, not that it will happen, Henry Thomas to come on to the bench instead of Wilson as the reserve tight head.
Just a few thoughts anyway
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I'm really excited by where this England side are going there are just so many options. Also seeing Farrell develop so much over the last few months is great to see, he's on a new level now. My only concern really is the tight head. Cole is outstanding, but I don't rate Wilson at all really.
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No, Tighthead is a big big worry if Cole is missing.
I agree with Dave that we need to give Thomas a go from the bench and see if he can develop, Wilson isn't good enough, everyone can see that.
If you picked the squad on Form Billy Vunipola would definitely be on the bench with Morgan out, I hope they don't go with Haskell 6 and Wood 8 though, Wood needs to be at 6. 2nd row I'm pretty happy with, I like all 3 of them (and Kitchener at tigers) so I'm all for them all getting time but Parling is the senior one so him with either Lawes or Launchbury is the right call for now, I'd love to see the youngsters both finish a game though.
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I think Henry Thomas will prove more than capable and we may get to the point hopefully where he and Cole are swapping like Corbs/Marler and Vunipola do on the loose head side.
I think he will go with Wood at 8 and Haskell 6 if I am being honest. But as I said before, we have to look at the long game and I think we can afford to try a couple of different combinations in these next two matches without necessarily risking losing the games.
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For example can you think of any back row from scotland or wales who deserves to be picked other than maybe Faletau at 8? Do either of them have a half back who can come close to challenging youngs/sexton/farrell?
It again all comes down to the game plan Gatland is going to implement. If it is anything like the tactics he uses with Wales, then I can see a number of Welsh players featuring in the starting XV. You mention the back row, well there is Dan Lydiate for a start (Six Nations player of the tournament last year but been injured recently) who is instrumental in the way Gatland plays and I would think he will be a definite starter if he is fit. Playing against Australia and Pocock, the seven needs to be a natural in that position and do a lot of work on the floor. Robshaw and O'Brien aren't really natural sevens so I think he could look elsewhere. As for half back, I would expect Sexton and Farrell to battle it out for the fly-half spot, but think that Mike Phillips is nailed on to start at scrum half (I don't think he should start for Wales, but again he fits into Gatland's plans perfectly). As for the rest of the backs, I would expect two big centres and two big wingers, with Leigh Halfpenny at full-back because of his goal-kicking. Again, this probably wouldn't be my personal choice, but it could well be what Gatland goes with.
If Mike Phillips is anywhere near the test team then I will be gutted. Apart from his physicality I fail to see what else he brings to the party?. His passing is ponderous, he always takes a step or two before passing and worse than all of that, he never bloody looks up.
Agree somewhat on Phillips and I find him really frustrating at times when he plays for Wales (I would add his aimless box kicks to your list of weaknesses). Despite that, the physicality he brings is a key part of Gatland's plans and he is used almost like an extra forward in that respect. Because of that, he gets involved in far too much of the physical stuff though and spends a lot of time on the bottom of rucks as opposed to getting the ball out of them.
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Stupid Southern Hemisphere sod. He can't win now.
Well he can, but that's what it'll take.
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See I could understand taking Phillips to SA as it is all about strength there. But for the Aussies? No ta.
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Agreed. Took the soft option of him missing the rest of the tournament. Dirty bastard.
And nothing for the cowardly punch either, there's nothing that says you can't be cited for 2 incidents at the same time is there?
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Agreed. Took the soft option of him missing the rest of the tournament. Dirty bastard.
And nothing for the cowardly punch either, there's nothing that says you can't be cited for 2 incidents at the same time is there?
The citing process is an absolute joke and is a real blight on the game. Healy deliberately targeted Dan Cole's ankle which could have resulted in him being seriously injured and his 'punishment' is way too lenient (not the first time an Irish player has got off lightly I must add).
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Agreed. Took the soft option of him missing the rest of the tournament. Dirty bastard.
And nothing for the cowardly punch either, there's nothing that says you can't be cited for 2 incidents at the same time is there?
The citing process is an absolute joke and is a real blight on the game. Healy deliberately targeted Dan Cole's ankle which could have resulted in him being seriously injured and his 'punishment' is way too lenient (not the first time an Irish player has got off lightly I must add).
I disagree, I think the citing process is close to being a good system, the problem is the fact that they can reduce the ban based on character. I don't care if healy spends the rest of his time saving kittens from trees, at that point in the match he was deliberately trying to cause a serious injury to Cole, there were no mitigating factors for me. The original 5 week ban was soft, to reduce it because he'sa nice guy most of the time is taking the piss.
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The system is also open to abuse. You'll find internationals, in the lead up to big matches, are given lighter sentences than other players.
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The system is also open to abuse. You'll find internationals, in the lead up to big matches, are given lighter sentences than other players.
Which all comes back to the ability to reduce bans, it should be that they have much more consistent lengths on the bans, so something like stamping or eye gouging has a minor, normal and serious level ban and everyone at every level serves the same suspensions. The citing officers then have a choice from 4, the 3 above or to dismiss the citing, remove any possibility for them to control the period of the ban outside those stages. You could also have a set appeals process from both sides where the 'victim' and the offender can both launch appeals about the categorisation and it goes to an independent panel.
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Same 23 for France I see. Was hoping that Vunipola would take over from Waldrom but seen that he picked up a little injury in training today which is slightly disappointing. Although I would like to see Twelvetrees and Manu start you wouldn't have Barritt on the bench so I would imagine exactly the same starting line up in the backs. Up front it wouldn't surprise me to see Hartley start over Youngs.
If we win be interesting if he shakes it up a little, with a view to the future, for the Italy game and gives starts to the likes of Vunipola?
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Same 23 for France I see. Was hoping that Vunipola would take over from Waldrom but seen that he picked up a little injury in training today which is slightly disappointing. Although I would like to see Twelvetrees and Manu start you wouldn't have Barritt on the bench so I would imagine exactly the same starting line up in the backs. Up front it wouldn't surprise me to see Hartley start over Youngs.
If we win be interesting if he shakes it up a little, with a view to the future, for the Italy game and gives starts to the likes of Vunipola?
It's difficult to argue too much with it but I hope he doesn't start haskell 6 and wood 8 again, if they both play then wood has to be 6 where he is world class rather than 8 where he's good but nothing special.
I think the hooker change has a good chance, Youngs struggled throwing in against Ireland at times and we really need to get the basics spot on early and put some scoreboard pressure on them. Given that the other change that wouldn't surprise me would be Lawes starting ahead of Launchbury. Lawes is probably the best tackler in the squad and he can put them under massive pressure with that.
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Well according to the trusty source that is Chris Foy on Twitter there are three likely changes to the starting XV for Saturday. Looks like I got that wrong then :-)
He believes Hartley will come in for Youngs, which we kind of anticipated maybe the case and I like the idea of Youngs coming on to add some zest to it all after about 50 mins.
The other two changes I didn't forsee as much if i am truthful. He believes Manu is coming for Twelvetrees and restoring partnership with Barritt. I can understand that but not sure why you would then have both 36 and Flood on the same bench?
Finally and intriguingly and almost fitting in with what Paul e said above, Lawes will be starting. However he will be playing 6 and Wood will continue at 8 with Haskell and Waldrom on the bench.
Looks like we are going for the power game up front to nullify the French pack. Gives us a load of lineout options and good ball carriers and also forwards with good hands.
As I said above though, I think he could have been a little more creative with the bench as I see Haskell and Waldrom as being a little similar and certainly 36 and Flood. Would have been nice to see for example someone like Wade/May covering outside backs and Kvesic as back row cover in the absence of Billy V?
That all said, who am I to argue with what Lancaster has done?. England by 10 on Saturday
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If that's true that's quite a flexible decision from Lancaster and could work well with plenty of options from the bench.
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Well according to the trusty source that is Chris Foy on Twitter there are three likely changes to the starting XV for Saturday. Looks like I got that wrong then :-)
He believes Hartley will come in for Youngs, which we kind of anticipated maybe the case and I like the idea of Youngs coming on to add some zest to it all after about 50 mins.
The other two changes I didn't forsee as much if i am truthful. He believes Manu is coming for Twelvetrees and restoring partnership with Barritt. I can understand that but not sure why you would then have both 36 and Flood on the same bench?
Finally and intriguingly and almost fitting in with what Paul e said above, Lawes will be starting. However he will be playing 6 and Wood will continue at 8 with Haskell and Waldrom on the bench.
Looks like we are going for the power game up front to nullify the French pack. Gives us a load of lineout options and good ball carriers and also forwards with good hands.
As I said above though, I think he could have been a little more creative with the bench as I see Haskell and Waldrom as being a little similar and certainly 36 and Flood. Would have been nice to see for example someone like Wade/May covering outside backs and Kvesic as back row cover in the absence of Billy V?
That all said, who am I to argue with what Lancaster has done?. England by 10 on Saturday
Lawes coming in really is no surprise, this french team look very reliant on performances at 9 and 10. I'm fine with Haskell dropping out as well, he could quite easily have cost us the game last time by being stupid in an area where we were under no pressure. However what is the point of having Haskell and Waldrom in the squad if you're going to play people out of position in their spots? 1 of them as a bit of experience I can understand but 1 should make way for Vunipola or Kvesic who both, like Launchbury, just need to be given a chance to show if they can step up.
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French side looks a lot stronger at half back now.
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Team as suggested in post above. I have read that Vunipola was a certainty for the bench until he got injured in practice on Tuesday. That is a shame.
Agree the French team is far better balanced than it was against either Italy or Wales and indeed if they had picked this team to start with, then I believe both teams would be going into this match unbeaten.
I still think England will win, particularly if it stays dry when I believe we will play at a pace that the French will struggle to live with. Our bench also looks very strong for later in the game.
England by 7-10 pts for me
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It is a better French side but I think we can get at Parra. Our pack should have enough about it to boss the scrum and we'll be strong at the lineout so I agree with Dave, fairly comfy England win by around 10 for me.
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It looks a well balanced England side and shows we have great options. I like Lawes in the side.
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Our strength in the back row positions is incredible. My current first choice if all fit would be Wood, Morgan and Robshaw. Next in line Croft, Vunipola, Kvesic. After that Johnson, Waldrom, Fraser. And I haven't even mentioned the likes of Armitage and not included Lawes who is there this weekend !!. So many options
We are also extremely well blessed at half back with Youngs, Care, Simpson, Dickson, Robson even Wigglesworth at a push for the Number 9 spot and Farrell, Flood, Burns, Ford and Cipriani all capable of playing at 10.
We need to bring some of the other areas up to this type of stength in depth.
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I can understand Manu coming back so that Barritt and he can extend a suitable Twickenham welcome to Bastareaud and Fofana. Billy 36 can come on later on to take advantage of tiring French legs. Think that the very mobile English pack will wear the French pack down. Happy to see Trinh-Duc at 10, think that the English back row can really get to him as I have found his game very predictable. Parra is a good choice at 9 for the French - Rate him. Looking forward to seeing England win by 12 when I'm at the game on Saturday.
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Our strength in the back row positions is incredible. My current first choice if all fit would be Wood, Morgan and Robshaw. Next in line Croft, Vunipola, Kvesic. After that Johnson, Waldrom, Fraser. And I haven't even mentioned the likes of Armitage and not included Lawes who is there this weekend !!. So many options
We are also extremely well blessed at half back with Youngs, Care, Simpson, Dickson, Robson even Wigglesworth at a push for the Number 9 spot and Farrell, Flood, Burns, Ford and Cipriani all capable of playing at 10.
We need to bring some of the other areas up to this type of stength in depth.
Back row - add in Launchbury who is just as good a 6 as a 2nd row, Gaskill at Sale, Haskill who you've missed out, and that's still ignoring the U20 squad who have 3-4 exceptional back rows as well. If we progress as well as I expect you could easily field 4th and 5th choices from 6 to 10 and still have international class players. We've also got a really good set of loosehead props and give it a year or 2 and we'll have just as much depth on the wings/fullback (Christian Wade, Johnny May, Marland Yarde, Elliot Daly, Anthony Watson (the best of the bunch by quite a margin), Miles Benjamin, Guy Armitage (prefers centre), Rob Miller (prefers flyhalf) have all looked capable either in the premiership or at england youth level).
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Ashton for fucks sake, shocking tackle.
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Tuilagi is a beast, I don't understand anyone who doesn't rate him.
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Substitutions have killed France.
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Tuilagi is a beast, I don't understand anyone who doesn't rate him.
he's not good enough YET at some aspects of the game; he gets caught out of position, he tackles high too often and he doesn't look for help enough. It's made up for by the fact that he's phenomenal at other parts of the game, he's probably the best crash centre in world rugby.
Back to the game, today was a perfect example of why having impact players on the bench is so important, we never lost quality when we made changes, they did. I'd prefer a creative option in the backs though, we had no one who could do to them what Fofana did to us for their try.
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That's why I want Foden back in asap.
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We didn't play well, but still beat a much improved France by 10 points. Mark of a very good side.
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Robshaw is a leader in the truest sense of the word. The art of captaincy is often forgotten in modern sport, but Robshaw shows how to lead by example
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Robshaw just continually is magnificent.
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Great substitutions, I'm no fan of Flood but I thought he was great when he came on, Robshaw was immense. 2 weeks rest again should see Farrell fit but probably not essential for Italy at Twickenham.
Refereeing was poor in the first half, I lost count of the times the French were crossing, the trip on Farrell under the refs nose plus the way he got conned by the French at the breakdown, glad it never cost us in the end.
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Joubert is normally very good, missed several things for both sides today.
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On the downside yesterday, Jonathan Davies, Christ on a bike that man is a cock.
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For a very tight game I was worried for the first hour. But in the last 15 minutes you could visible see the French lose it. Their stamina isn't as good as England's or as a consequence their discipline. When they brought Michalaek I was truely puzzled, what did Trun-Duc do wrong to get subbed? Who cares we won with a bit to spare in the end. Captin marvel Robshaw had a stormer.
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Michalak should never play for France again after the Wales game, he's a joke.
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Was saying to my mate that Robshaw reminds me a lot of Martin Johnson. Leadership and the players seem to repect him.
Looks like we're beginning to pick up some momentum for 2015.
Wales at the Millenium for the Grand Slam???
I missed the first couple of minutes, but Farrell seemed to have a bee in his bonnet. What was it with him?
Composed himself for the kicks, though.
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Firstly Paul e, you were right I did miss Haskell out of my back row options on previous. Actually think he is the perfect sub as able to cover all three positions.
Not the greatest performance by England at all. In retrospect Lancaster picked the wrong side and it cost us first half. However we made the changes at the right time, with the right players on in the correct positions, I felt we won comfortably enough in the end.
It really does highlight the fact it is a 23 man game these days and we are lucky that we don't weaken our team by who we bring on.
Very concerned at how the scrum went on Saturday and I am guessing that Dan Cole has done his Lions test chances no good at all. I really don't understand the scrum, so if people better qualified than me can tell me why France had the upper hand, I would be grateful.
The Lineout with all of our options also didn't go well on Saturday, which again was concerning. I do like Courtney Lawes but he can't be playing back row again in an international test match. 2nd row or bench from now on. The other two members of the back row I thought had immense games, Tom Wood and Robshaw were on absolutely stunning and worked hard at negating a very good French back row. Did think Picamoles was excellent though.
Be interesting to see if Lancaster freshens it up for Italy as I think we will win the game either way. Like to see Twelvetrees get a start with Manu for sure. Christian Wade is another I would like to see get in the 23 and this is the perfect game to bring him in. I would start with Vunipola instead of Marler and have his brother on the bench.
There is no doubt we will have to up our game to win in Cardiff, but equally Wales will have to up there's because they were also poor in Rome.
Weekly rant regarding the Scrum V BBC Wales Lions team, this week chosen by Jiffy. 6 Welsh, 5 Irish, Stuart Hogg from Scotland and Care, Launchbury and Robshaw from England. Does he want us too lose down under??? :-)
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Cole is still one of the outstanding props in world rugby and he's work in the loose is outstanding as well.
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No one thinks that Scotland can nick the 6 Nations then?
Still pleased with how it's gone, in spite of a blind Irish kicker helping us.
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Agree Dave, Lawes looked uncomfortable in the back row.
Scrum - most of our problems seemed to be on Marler's side more than Cole, I still don't quite trust Marler in there against the best sides, he's just too passive, Vunipola brought a lot of aggression when he came on which helped, but more importantly their scrum fell apart when they made changes.
Lineout - we did ok, I don't actually think there was much between the teams at the line, they were a little more adventurous than us in the first half but again we got stronger later on.
Wood and Robshaw - both were immense, I really wish we could find a way to fit them both in and have stefon armitage in the side as well (I really should stop going on about him now though) though, france bossed the breakdown for an hour and we really could've done with a nasty little bugger in there to disrupt things.
Barritt and Manu really doesn't work for me, we were fairly solid but we were so predictable through the middle, it was only a lucky break that saw us score a try. We need billy 36 or JJ in there to give us a bit of guile.
Goode and Brown - Much like Manu and Barritt, the combination just doesn't feel right to me. I've never been a big fan of Brown and, other than the odd moment, I don't think I'm far off in my assessment of him. I just don't think he's a threat, he does a good job of running the ball back in broken play but he can't do 'a fofana' and beat half a team on his own and he doesn't offer much the rest of the time. If we had Foden inside he might get away with it because Foden has the ability to do something special but Goode again doesn't quite have it in him to really run through a team. My solution would be to replace Brown with Johnny May who gives you the same defensive stability but adds a bit more acceleration and is a bit tougher to predict, shame we can't call him up for the Italy game.
10 - Farrell was great again but Flood just doesn't do it for me. As soon as Burns is fit he has to come onto the bench.
Finally - 8 - Vunipola has to be on the bench for rome. He doesn't seem to rate Waldrom but is sticking with him for an experienced option, but Robshaw, Wood, Haskell are all providing that experience, Vunipola is going to be a world class 8 so lets give him a sniff early on.
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Just found this on the Yahoo sports page.
Interesting.
With three convincing victories behind them, Lancaster's men are in irresistible form and are now odd-on favourites to win their first Grand Slam in a decade.
But while the likes of Manu Tuilagi, Chris Robson and Owen Farrell have been in superb form, winger Ashton has been a shadow of his former self with just one try in his last eight Tests - and he was one of the key culprits in Wesley Fofana's try for France at the weekend.
Lancaster has now openly warned Ashton that he could be benched.
"I think he's trying hard and working hard but equally he knows there are areas of his game he's got to work on," said Lancaster.
"We've been talking to him about that. Like everyone else he'll be disappointed by the try Fofana scored."
Saracens star David Strettle, whose England career has been hampered by a string of injuries over the years, is tipped to get Ashton's spot on the wing - but Lancaster claimed that is only one of the ideas he is toying with.
"One of the options is that Manu (Tuilagi) could play there (on the wing) with Billy Twelvetrees at No12.
"That would put some pressure on him, wouldn't it?"
Former England backs coach Brian Smith believes that there is another man in the frame as well: London Irish's uncapped winger Marland Yarde.
"Marland is a better player than Chris Ashton and he would be a better bet against Italy," said Smith.
“Ashton redefined wing-play when he crossed codes from rugby league Wigan in 2007. He’s a very effective finisher. But Ashton doesn’t get his hands dirty the way Marland does, getting involved in the nitty-gritty of games."
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Just found this on the Yahoo sports page.
Interesting.
With three convincing victories behind them, Lancaster's men are in irresistible form and are now odd-on favourites to win their first Grand Slam in a decade.
But while the likes of Manu Tuilagi, Chris Robson and Owen Farrell have been in superb form, winger Ashton has been a shadow of his former self with just one try in his last eight Tests - and he was one of the key culprits in Wesley Fofana's try for France at the weekend.
Lancaster has now openly warned Ashton that he could be benched.
"I think he's trying hard and working hard but equally he knows there are areas of his game he's got to work on," said Lancaster.
"We've been talking to him about that. Like everyone else he'll be disappointed by the try Fofana scored."
Saracens star David Strettle, whose England career has been hampered by a string of injuries over the years, is tipped to get Ashton's spot on the wing - but Lancaster claimed that is only one of the ideas he is toying with.
"One of the options is that Manu (Tuilagi) could play there (on the wing) with Billy Twelvetrees at No12.
"That would put some pressure on him, wouldn't it?"
Former England backs coach Brian Smith believes that there is another man in the frame as well: London Irish's uncapped winger Marland Yarde.
"Marland is a better player than Chris Ashton and he would be a better bet against Italy," said Smith.
“Ashton redefined wing-play when he crossed codes from rugby league Wigan in 2007. He’s a very effective finisher. But Ashton doesn’t get his hands dirty the way Marland does, getting involved in the nitty-gritty of games."
That would take some balls but he is one of the most promising wingers in europe so I'd be willing to give it a go. I think I might cry if strettle starts, we have lots of young wingers with bags of potential, a guy who's failed at every opportunity and can't score is a waste of a shirt.
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Unfortunately Strettle is the only other winger in the Elite squad, so I guess he will be picked. I would suggest that this is the only area that Lancaster has a blind spot.
I am with you Paul, off the top of my head, Sharples, May, Sinbad, Wade, Varndell, Monye, Yarde, Ojo, Thompstone, Biggs, Eastmond I would all put ahead of Strettle as international wingers. The try that Wade scored vs Irish on Sunday was just top class and something that Strettle is nowhere near capable of
That said, I would rather have Strettle playing than Tuilagi on the wing. I hop and trust that Lancaster has learnt his lesson about playing players out of position after the Lawes experiment on Saturday.
On to Billy Vunipola, I think he may well be in the squad if he is fit for the Italy game. Been unlucky with injuries so far.
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Unfortunately Strettle is the only other winger in the Elite squad, so I guess he will be picked. I would suggest that this is the only area that Lancaster has a blind spot.
I am with you Paul, off the top of my head, Sharples, May, Sinbad, Wade, Varndell, Monye, Yarde, Ojo, Thompstone, Biggs, Eastmond I would all put ahead of Strettle as international wingers. The try that Wade scored vs Irish on Sunday was just top class and something that Strettle is nowhere near capable of
That said, I would rather have Strettle playing than Tuilagi on the wing. I hop and trust that Lancaster has learnt his lesson about playing players out of position after the Lawes experiment on Saturday.
On to Billy Vunipola, I think he may well be in the squad if he is fit for the Italy game. Been unlucky with injuries so far.
Yarde, May and Wade in particular are looking in fine form this season. Sharples is a bit unlucky, I think getting his chance, seeing no ball and being dropped has dented his confidence quite a bit. Wade seems to have a stronger character and has stepped up his game this year. How May isn't in the Squad I'll never know, he's quick and runs great lines but is also great under the high ball and solid defensively, he's just a straight up upgrade on Brown in every way as far as I'm concerned (but then I'm not a great fan of Brown and never have been).
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I think it's quite a statement to discard Ashton, I still rate him highly he's just not in great form.
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it's a tough one. If we play the right way Ashton will be great again, if we have 10, 12 and 13 of Farrell, Barritt and Manu he's a spare part.
Ashton's brilliance is based on getting on the shoulder of the man and finishing the chance but he times his arrival in a way the doesn't often work with Manu and Barritt as the centres. If they can't sort that out between them then we'll be better served by having a broken field runner in there, hence the 3 young guys I mentioned, who are all excellent at that part of the game. It's a huge shame and is the main reason I'd prefer to see Twelvetrees in there. We are looking to build an offloading game and Ashton should be a deadly weapon in the environment but we're not getting the ball to him when he breaks so he can't contribute.
As an aside, I'm seeing far too many people putting together their lions squads on various blogs and not including Tom Wood. This was always my worry with him being moved to 8, it'll be ridiculous if he doesn't get picked.
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Agreed an offloading game if done correctly is perfect for Ashton and we need to utilise him. Wood should also be in the Lions starting team.
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I'd like to see Foden back in the team, I think Goode and Brown are a bit one paced. I don't know if I want him on the wing or full back, but I think he should be starting.
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Brown is a great full back but there are better full backs at the moment. both England wingers need dropping, Brown isn't a natural winger and Ashton has not peformed in the last year. Nobody should get their place on reputation alone.
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I still think Foden is our best full back.
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I agree with both of you.
Foden is our best and should be favourite for the lions but he's had a shit 12months with injuries.
As mentioned Brown is very 1 dimensional. He does well against weaker sides because he does run good straight lines but against teams that work him out he provides no threat. He's very much a player who looks good on paper as his ball carrying statistics are very good, but he never does it in the areas where he can hurt a team. Ashton is the exact opposite, he's pretty much non-existant when he he can't get the ball in sight of the line, but his finishing instincts are immense.
Goode is a really tough one, he's been very solid this year but hasn't actually provided anything in an attacking sense. I don't think he deserves to be dropped though. Of the squad we can pick from without injuries I'd like to see 36 and Manu in the centres, Foden and Joseph on the wings and Goode at FB. With Ashton and Burns on the bench you then cover all positions as Joseph and Burns cover the centre and Foden can move to FB if needed. It's a touch harsh on Barritt and Brown to leave them out completely but I don't think our backs are capitalising on the good work from our forwards at the minute.
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I was like a lot of you with Brown but I have slowly changed my opinion of him. Not sure if it is because I have seen him live and can see all the off the ball stuff that he does, but he has definitely grown on me.
I thought he and Goode were stunning defensively over in Dublin and contributed a great deal to our win. I agree though I do wish we would see more of them in an attacking sense. I suspect it maybe due to the poor passing abilities of our centres?.
As I have said before, it's all a learning curve and we need to try out and find the best combinations for the World Cup.
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I was like a lot of you with Brown but I have slowly changed my opinion of him. Not sure if it is because I have seen him live and can see all the off the ball stuff that he does, but he has definitely grown on me.
I thought he and Goode were stunning defensively over in Dublin and contributed a great deal to our win. I agree though I do wish we would see more of them in an attacking sense. I suspect it maybe due to the poor passing abilities of our centres?.
As I have said before, it's all a learning curve and we need to try out and find the best combinations for the World Cup.
The off the ball stuff is what i mean by running good lines, he does make himself available well but his only real 'trick' is breaking through on that running line, which just doesn't work in dangerous areas against the top international sides. He's an excellent club player and has worked very hard to make himself competitive and at any other era for England (or pretty much any northern hemisphere side) he'd be rightly starting, but we have some younger guys who we need to look at, I have the same issue with Strettle as well. If both of them were very experienced internationals I could see the point in keeping them around but they're almost as 'raw' (in international terms) as the likes of May and Yarde anyway.
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Latest from the England camp :
Corbs, Joseph, Croft, Clark, Johnson are all out of the remaining games.
Ben Morgan is making progress but won't play against Italy but will be available for Wales.
Billy Vunipola will be available v Italy
Owen Farrell is 50/50 for Italy with the problem being his kicking. If not fit, won't be risked.
My wishlist is to see Freddie Burns in the 23 for next Sunday and get at least 30 mins from the bench. I would also like to see Billy Vunipola start at 8 and Wood move back to 6. Haskell can come on in the 2nd half.
Injuries are allowing Lancaster to try out some new players here, so could work well for us in the long run
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Latest from the England camp :
Corbs, Joseph, Croft, Clark, Johnson are all out of the remaining games.
Ben Morgan is making progress but won't play against Italy but will be available for Wales.
Billy Vunipola will be available v Italy
Owen Farrell is 50/50 for Italy with the problem being his kicking. If not fit, won't be risked.
My wishlist is to see Freddie Burns in the 23 for next Sunday and get at least 30 mins from the bench. I would also like to see Billy Vunipola start at 8 and Wood move back to 6. Haskell can come on in the 2nd half.
Injuries are allowing Lancaster to try out some new players here, so could work well for us in the long run
Interesting - 4 back row forwards out injured and we can still have a team and bench full of top class back rowers.
Burns needs to be in the 23 regardless of whether flood makes it or not.
Billy Vunipola needs to have at least 20-30minutes.
Corbs is probably out of contention for the lions now which is a great shame; if they could fix his fitness issues he'd be a guaranteed starter. I'm getting a bit worried that he may end up filed with JSD and Olly Morgan as just too big an injury risk
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I couldn't give a toss if Burns plays for England as long as he's available for Glos.
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Chris Foy suggesting today that there will be 5 changes for Sunday v Italy. Care and Flood half backs. Mako V and Youngs in the front row and Haskell back in the back for Lawes.
I guess 5 changes is plenty, but I am a little disappointed that he hasn't thrown Twelvetrees in and given Barritt a rest for Wales.
I don't know the bench as yet but am really hoping that Burns and Twelvetrees are both on and get a decent amount of time. Am also hoping the same for Billy Vunipola, but I am thinking that Croft may cover the back row.
I'm going for my 5th game out of the 7 home ones this season, so very fortunate and just want a dry day so they can play some attractive rugby
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I'll be really disappointed in Billy Vunipola and Burns don't get at least half an hour each.
The team Chris Foy suggests is exactly what I'm expecting, I wish he'd be a bit braver 11-15 though (particuarly when Farrell is 10), only Manu and Ashton are picked for their attack, and one of those is having his place questioned because he's not providing anything in a team setup to be defensively sound as priority. I've said it before, he has too much focus on what the outside backs don't bring and ignores the good things they provide. With our pack we need to start picking people outside to hurt other teams once we rumble into good positions.
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I'm a bit gutted that 36, Billy and Burns don't get a chance, but it is good to see Croft back in the squad as I really rate him.
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really poor decision to not include billy v in the 23, For all the talk of picking players on form a year or so ago he's not really done that here. Seems like a big opportunity missed to me. Same with Twelvetrees. Burns I kind of agree with not starting as he didn't look totally over his injury last weekend.
Ah well, I'm sure we'll do well but it's not the way I wanted to see us go, at some point we need to show our claws and really go at a team.
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I think he may (Billy V) get a game sooner rather than later but its not as if we're struggling for options. For someone to be dropped the replacement must either be pulling up trees, or the person he is replacing must be having a mare. i don't think Billy or any other pkayer fit into that category just yet.
good to see Burns on the bench. If we open a lead than giving him 20-30 minutes should be enough for us to see his quality.
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Fucking hell England white line fever.
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Poor complacent half by England.
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Really poor execution again.
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I'm really not sure why people rave about Goode, he's alright but that's about it.
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Goode looked a great prospect a few years ago but he he doesn't have the acceleration to make it at this level, gets caught too easily. Brown hasn't got the brains, just seems to make the wrong choice far too often. Switch to Ashton, not as involved but 2-3 times he nearly got away by making the right choice to make himself available, the lead up to the flood held up try from Ashon was world class, took as exceptional tackle to stop him.
Flood has been really poor so far, there's some ability there but I think he's getting very close to needing to be given up on, too often he just doesn't turn up.
Forwards have done well, Haskell and Robshaw carry a lot but Wood is always on their shoulder to secure the ball after the tackle, yet again he's been superb doing all the work to make the others look good, on top of that he has exceptional hands.
For me - Flood and Haskell off for Croft and Burns and lets start running through the gaps they're leaving in tight.
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Ashton has shown glimpses of why he's world class. Foden definitely needs to come back at full back, because we are lacking some pace.
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Shocking from England, half backs off they've been fucking diabolical.
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We've been horrendous this half.
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Awful display, Care, Flood, Goode all have to go. Goode just doesn't do anything for me at all, not enough pace. Flood hasn't controlled the backs at all.
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A win, but a truly truly dreadful display.
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Care and Flood offered no control, the back row offered no go forward. The two centres didn't do anything and the back three, only Brown did ok.
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At least Lancaster seems fully aware of why it was so poor.
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I agree with Woodward's backline - Youngs, Farrell, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Ashton, May and Brown.
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I have no idea how he can justify not bringing Burns on, Flood was awful all game other than kicking at the posts but you can't keep a fly half on purely for their penalties.
I know it might seem as if I'm picking on him but Brown had a terrible 2nd half, missed 4-5 straight up tackles by refusing to tackle low. Internationally you can't tackle high one-on-one, you'll just get shrugged off. Going forward he just doesn't do the right thing. First half he broke away well and then cut across Ashton's line before looking and realising he had no support because he'd taken the space of his support runner, if he'd straightened, commited the man and offloaded we'd have scored. Second half there was a scramble on half way he came through on the loose ball and kicked, a big kick and Manu was in lots of space out wide, but instead he tried to chip ahead for himself and ended up giving it away. Small things but better decision making and there were 2 tries there. For me it's no suprise that he's yet to score a try internationally, he's completely failed to adjust his game to internationals.
Goode isn't quick enough, everything else about his game is rendered irrelevant by it, he'd be ok at 10 maybe but at 15 you need a burst of pace.
Pack performed well other than being nudged back in a few scrums. Care had a decent first half and then stayed in the changing room after half time. Barritt showed 2 or 3 times that he just doesn't have the attacking instincts to be productive when we have the ball and like my Flood comment, you can't keep picking him because he tackles well.
I'm really angry about the performance, we have some exceptional young backs who can't get a look in whilst Barritt, Brown, Goode and Flood all seem to be picked irrespective of performances and were the weak links in the team (with Care joining them for the 15-20mins of the 2nd half before he got subbed).
Fundamentally the problem was that our backs completely failed to turn our forward dominance in the first half into a suitable lead, which gave Italy the encouragement they needed to come out really aggressive and go at us.
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I agree with Woodward's backline - Youngs, Farrell, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Ashton, May and Brown.
Foden at 15 and I'd go with that, I find it pretty amazing that Foden has lost his place in the squad (both with Lancaster and with a lot of pundits and fans) to 2 guys who have been so average. Foden and Ashton are 2 of a small number of bright sparks from Johnno's time and yet we seem to have abandoned one and changed our game enough to marginalise the other.
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I'm thinking maybe that Foden isn't properly back fit yet, or he'd be in surely.
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A bit like Paul E, I am furious at what I witnessed yesterday. The ONLY thing I personally took away from a freezing cold afternoon at Twickenham was that we won.
Good points were that Mako justified his start and some of his ball handling was just superb. When Corbs is fit, those two should be the two looseheads in the squad. Tom Youngs I thought did well and Cole was steady enough. Overall the back 5 of the pack didn't stand out but they did a solid enough job. I do believe that we miss Morgan's ball carrying qualities when he isn't there. I hope he gets picked for Cardiff, but I fear that Lancaster wants to get Wood, Croft and Robshaw into the same back row. He has too choose between Croft and Wood, simple as, and play one of them at 6.
On to the backs, absolutely putrid. Dreadful !!!. I am not sure what happens to Danny Care when he starts but with Quins he plays a fast tempo, quick taps etc. Just got slower and slower yesterday and his box kicking was awful.
Toby Flood, again like Paul E I was furious that Burns didn't have a run. Kept looking down at the bench and never even got close to coming on. I would feel insulted to have sat 80 mins and watched that clown at 10.
Barritt and Tuilagi. Sigh !!!. Been very good but they just don't know how to draw a man and pass the ball. They nearly fecked up Barritt's try v New Zealand when it was a simple 2 on 1.
Back 3. I like Alex Goode but no doubt he has regressed since the Autumn and is not making or even attempting to make the breaks he did then. As he hasn't got much gas, it renders him half the player. Everytime yesterday when the ball was quicked long to him it was HOOF in the air and invariably was collected by a Blue shirt.
I feel sorry for Brown and Ashton because they never get any decent passes because of all the issues inside of them. Brown is so frustrated with Manu because he rarely passes to him and therefore Brown ends up trying to do too much.
For next week, presuming Foden won't play, I would play Brown at 15 and I guess bring Strettle in. Would pick May, Sharples, Wade, Yarde, Eastmond, Varndell all ahead of him but not in squad.
Twelvetrees at 12 and Manu at 13 please with Farrell and Youngs as half backs.
In the forwards I would play Morgan, Wood and Robshaw as back row. Appears Launchbury is struggling and Parling has a stinger so Lawes is back in and the front row kept the same.
Bench : Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Botha, Croft, Care, Burns, Foden.
Finally and the worst of all, how many overlaps did we butcher yesterday?. Embarrassingly poor. From the Upper Tier you get a really good view of the play and we also just went side to side to side throwing miss passes and making it easy for the drift defence. When we needed to throw a miss pass, Flood's non try, we didn't. It was appalling.
Roll on Saturday !!!
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Floods kicking from hand was woeful, missing touch twice in the first 15 then the kick & hope kicks from his own half in the second half straight down the middle straight down the full backs throat.
We won't play that poorly again next week and I've seen nothing to concern England about Wales & their play yet, sure they'll raise their game but we surely have too much all over the park for Wales.
Dave, it was icy yesterday, we managed to blag our way into the BMW hospitaity in the West Car Park, the relief from the cold was fantastic.
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Well done Jon, impressive work. Don't think I have ever been as cold as I was yesterday at Twickenham. Was lovely in the pub too ;-)
Flood kicking yes. I can understand going for as much length as he did on the first one and the Italian did well to keep it in. However to make the same mistake twice is really stupid.
I thought we kicked it away too much anyway second half. First 30 we kept the ball, passed it and worked our way upfield and our ball retention was excellent. I have no idea why they deviated from this plan. Was one of many aspects I remain confused about !!
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I actually wonder if it was a tactical ploy to keep Wales guessing?
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I think it was more of a take the foot off the gas a bit, lower the intensity a bit & give them a bit too much respect rather than a tactic to throw Wales off.
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Well Lancaster has said that Morgan won't be fit for the weekend. That is a major disappointment for the game because of his ball carrying as mentioned earlier.
Think Lancaster will now have the excuse to use Croft, Wood and Robshaw in the same back row.
If he is being brave though, he will put Vunipola on the bench. This is the exact reason why he should have been in the 23 yesterday and had at least 30 mins game time. Frustrating that he wasn't !!!
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Well done Jon, impressive work. Don't think I have ever been as cold as I was yesterday at Twickenham. Was lovely in the pub too ;-)
Flood kicking yes. I can understand going for as much length as he did on the first one and the Italian did well to keep it in. However to make the same mistake twice is really stupid.
I thought we kicked it away too much anyway second half. First 30 we kept the ball, passed it and worked our way upfield and our ball retention was excellent. I have no idea why they deviated from this plan. Was one of many aspects I remain confused about !!
The problem with Flood was he did it a 3rd time but they couldn't quite keep it in play. He also kicked away a lot of ball and (this is the important bit) he never commands play. Farrell on the pitch we look capable, at times, because he tells the forwards to get out of the way, Flood is happy to sit in and let the forwards keep the ball until we're in the 22, he never looks to force play at all. I'd honestly drop him from the squad after saturday, ignoring the kicking from the tee for a minute, it was the worst performance I've seen from and England 10 for a long long time. Kicking from the tee he did his job, but there wasn't a single one of those that I wouldn't have expected an international goalkicker to make.
Brown i'll relent a little, the guy will never be an international winger but then he isn't a club winger so why should he be expected to. It's all come about on the back of Foden playing there for a few games in SA and 2 full backs looking ok but the experiement needs to end now. No other side in the 6N would pick Brown as a winger so if we want to play him then Goode has to be dropped (and deserves to be unfortunately).
I personally find it entirely unsurprising that we've taken most of our backs from the most forward-centric side in england and we've become entirely forward-centric.
Re: croft, wood and robshaw - I agree totally, Croft was utterly anonymous on saturday and didn't look fit enough to be playing at this level (to me). Haskell is ok but nothing more. Not giving Billy V a spot on the bench and a 20minute run out is as poor as leaving Burns collecting splinters. I also think he's made a huge error in not even attempting to have an alternative to Robshaw, A bench spot for Kvesic at some point would've been a very good idea.
If we want to say we're building towards the next world cup he needs to start giving people a look in to see if he can build options for all his spots. He's done a good job of that in the front 6 (but needs to find better backup for Cole) and we're starting to build some depth in the centres but fly half, wings and then 7 and 8 we look far too thin on experience and I don't see when he's going to attempt to give people that if not at home to Italy.
Put it this way if Robshaw picked a knock up in training would you be comfortable with someone else starting at 7? Haskell? Wood in his 3rd position of the tournament?
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I think in Lancaster's defence he will be trying a number of these players out on the summer tour to Argentina when much of our first team will be with the Wales/Ireland Lions touring party.
I then expect the next EPS squad picked in August to be the one that the majority of the World Cup team will come from.
I can't see much changing from Sunday in terms of selection and am hugely concerned at our prospects. Trouble is Wales have been dire all this tournament as well and if we are on form we will win. However, with the pressure, the "hwyl", the singing etc etc it maybe a bit too much for us.
In terms of the summer I want to see the likes of Simpson, Burns, 36, Joseph, Wade, May and Brown or Foden making up our backline. In the forwards want too see Kvesic and Billy V in the back row, Kitchener get a run in the 2nd row and Henry Thomas, Mako and possibly Jamie George make up the front row.
Loads of exciting players there and mixed with our prospective Lions offer plenty of depth and talent. It just remains for Lancaster to get the balance right. So far by and large he has, I trust him to do it again
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Marler in for Mako, not to happy with that. Wood moves to 8 and Croft comes in. Other changes Farrell and Youngs back in, which I prefer to the half back pairing against Italy.
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Marler in for Mako, not to happy with that. Wood moves to 8 and Croft comes in. Other changes Farrell and Youngs back in, which I prefer to the half back pairing against Italy.
I have absolutely no idea at all why Marler has been selected in front of Mako. Predicting that Adam Jones will eat him alive to put himself in pole position to be the Lions tight head.
Thought that Croft would be back for the reasons I said above, SL has wanted to get all three into his back row for sometime and this is the first opportunity as they are all currently fit. Should be a tremendous battle of both back rows and not sure who will get on top.
Youngs and Farrell was a no brainer after last week and I prefer Care as an impact sub anyway. Wish he had used Freddie for the second half and got him on the bench for this one.
A predictable team and one that is capable of winning. I just don't see though, other than Farrell's boot, where we will get our points from.
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I don't have a problem with Lancaster going the predictable route here, although Mako should be in. As stated above I think the summer tour is when we can reintergrate Foden and blood the likes of Burns, Billy V, 36, Wade, May and the like. Then we'll see those coming in for the autumn and the 6 nations.
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For me:
Mako doesn't deserve to be dropped, he was very effective in the first half, more so than Marler has been all tournament.
Flood doesn't deserve to be on the bench, he was really poor, if he comes on and plays like that against wales we'll really struggle.
Croft isn't fit enough to start, there's very little chance of him lasting more than an hour, which means we're screwed if Robshaw or Wood take a knock.
I'll never be happy with Barrit and Manu as the centres, it completely starves the outside backs of service.
Regarding the summer, I agree he will be forced to try other options but it's the fact that's only going to do it when he's forced into it that worries me.
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Lancaster overall has impressed me to be honest in his year in charge and I'll give him plenty of benefit of the doubt. He's got rid of the egos and we're no longer a laughing stock. He's also brought some young players into the squad and I believe they'll get their chance.
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Tuilagi that's poor that was a chance, and now we're under pressure.
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Poor Marler, bad penalty to give away. Shane Williams is already annoying me.
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Ashton what the fuck are you doing? haven't started particularly well here.
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Too many penalties.
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I really hope Goode isn't our full back for much longer.
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Why is Marler playing? he's fucking useless.
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Vital tackle by Brown, rubbish tackle from Ashton and poor from Youngs.
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Need to be much better in the second half.
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We badly need more pace in the backline.
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Wales' 16th man made a good start, but that all ended when he had to give England their first penalty after 18 minutes, Walsh could end up spoiling this, that said we haven't done ourselves any favours so far.
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We have made a mess of a few opportunities and Croft isn't in the game. Ashton needs to learn how to tackle.
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Marler and Youngs aren't doing enough in the scrum.
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Marler is giving away so many penalties.
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Marler has been really poor, he's top of the list to be replaced for me.
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Come on Mako.
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Fucks sake our scrum is having a nightmare.
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Goode you are fucking useless.
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We need something drastic to happen in this game. Goode should not be our full back come the autumn. Corbs, Foden, May, Vunipola into the squad please.
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Fucking shit England, we've been piss poor and there are several players have to go.
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Piss poor from Brown, tackling high again, he does it far too often, there was never a chance there if he'd defended properly. That's why I don't think he's good enough.
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Farrell chokes the kick as well, piss poor. There are serious changes needed to this team. Having Goode, Brown, Barritt in the backline isn't working.
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Brown, Marler, Goode, Barritt, Ashton, Croft, Tom Youngs all out.
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Game, slam and 6N Championship all gone. England always play so dumb in these matches.
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Where is the mighty english team you lot have been going on about for the last 3 months? Looks like that NZ result was a freak. ROUT!!!!
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Where is the mighty english team you lot have been going on about for the last 3 months? Looks like that NZ result was a freak. ROUT!!!!
Half of them haven't been picked for some reason.
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What a dreadful performance. As I say about 7 players need to go from this team. Fucking awful.
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This England team should be fucking embarrassed with their performances, they have all choked. We desperately need pace and a threat in the backline.
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No more square pegs in round holes please. Players in correct positions.
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I'd still have Ashton to come off the bench, because if you give him ball he can score. But we need a lot more creativity and pace in the backs. Hopefully Lancaster and the coaches will learn from this and realise their mistakes. Oh and Shane Williams, Eddie Butler and Jonathan Davies can fuck off.
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All of you England players and coaches should be fucking embarrassed.
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I'd still have Ashton to come off the bench, because if you give him ball he can score. But we need a lot more creativity and pace in the backs. Hopefully Lancaster and the coaches will learn from this and realise their mistakes. Oh and Shane Williams, Eddie Butler and Jonathan Davies can fuck off.
I don't follow club rugby (I'm more League for club level and Union for internationals), but I always liked the look of Strettle when he played for England. What's happened to him?
Who would you have instead of Goode (who I thought was not too bad over the tournament)? Ben Foden? Perhaps Cipriani can go back there, as he played there for Wasps in the beginning.
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There's better young players coming through than Strettle, Wade and May come to mind. I'd definitely have Foden at full back.
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Twelvetrees has to start ahead of barritt.
Mako V has to be ahead of Marler.
Goode hasn't got the pace to be an international outside back.
Brown can't play on the wing at this level, try him at full back or leave him out. He was shit for both tries, poor decision to tackle a guy much bigger than him high for the first and then didn't make a decision for the 2nd when he needed to either go for the early tackle or move wide and block the space, instead he hung around waiting for someone else to make the decision for him. He also made a big error throwing the ball infield to no one in the first half. If you're caught on your own out wide go into touch, giving the ball away is asking to be counter attacked and we got lucky that their charge down wasn't better that time.
Starting a semi-fit Croft was insane. He was utterly anonymous and forced Wood to 8 where he isn't a good enough ball carrier to have the necessary impact. We work with Morgan so the replacement needs to offer something similar, not giving Billy V a run against Italy removed that option and is easily the worst decision he's made in the tournament.
Warburton and Tipuric exploited Robshaws weaknesses at the breakdown, this was always my worry if we came up against a side with a strong 7 (or 2 in this case).
Our front row need to learn to play the ref, 2-3 penalties/freekicks they got were caused by them being a bit devious and us not being wise enough to make it obvious. Mako got caught by one right after he came on where the bind was on his arm and pulled him down so he missed his bind. The ref was on the other side so he just saw it collapse with Vunipola the first to go and gave them the pen.
If Farrell isn't kicking the points he's a very average player at 10.
Youngs (ben) has no brain at times - Ditto Manu. Both very good players but they made some big errors today.
What galls me most is that Wales didn't play well today, they just took advantage of us being predictable in attack, naive in the set piece and fucking stupid in defence (at times). Gifting them a lead with stupid penalties made the job so much harder than it should have been.
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There's better young players coming through than Strettle, Wade and May come to mind. I'd definitely have Foden at full back.
Wade, May and Yarde are all great prospects, and there are 2-3 others just starting to break through as well. Of those 3 May would be my choice because he's solid under the high ball as well, Wade and Yarde can look a bit ropey at times and probably need another year or 2 each.
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Utterly predictable.
As I said to my mate in the week.
'Wales will trounce England as they hate the Engish more than they love their own country.'
BCFC syndrome.
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I listened to the game on the drive home and was passing thro' Westbury-On Severn when that village's most famous son scored the first of his two tries.
Today should have cemented Alex Cuthbert's place in the Lions starting XV
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No Rugby fan at all but watched the game and obviously Wales deserve it.
What I don't like about the 6 nations is the lopsdied nature of it, 3 home and 2 away or vice versa, think it would be better if it was bumped to 7 and all teams played 3 at home and 3 away.
Also great to see Italy improving so much from just wooden spoon fodder, makes it much more competitive.
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Twelvetrees has to start ahead of barritt.
Mako V has to be ahead of Marler.
Goode hasn't got the pace to be an international outside back.
Brown can't play on the wing at this level, try him at full back or leave him out. He was shit for both tries, poor decision to tackle a guy much bigger than him high for the first and then didn't make a decision for the 2nd when he needed to either go for the early tackle or move wide and block the space, instead he hung around waiting for someone else to make the decision for him. He also made a big error throwing the ball infield to no one in the first half. If you're caught on your own out wide go into touch, giving the ball away is asking to be counter attacked and we got lucky that their charge down wasn't better that time.
Starting a semi-fit Croft was insane. He was utterly anonymous and forced Wood to 8 where he isn't a good enough ball carrier to have the necessary impact. We work with Morgan so the replacement needs to offer something similar, not giving Billy V a run against Italy removed that option and is easily the worst decision he's made in the tournament.
Warburton and Tipuric exploited Robshaws weaknesses at the breakdown, this was always my worry if we came up against a side with a strong 7 (or 2 in this case).
Our front row need to learn to play the ref, 2-3 penalties/freekicks they got were caused by them being a bit devious and us not being wise enough to make it obvious. Mako got caught by one right after he came on where the bind was on his arm and pulled him down so he missed his bind. The ref was on the other side so he just saw it collapse with Vunipola the first to go and gave them the pen.
If Farrell isn't kicking the points he's a very average player at 10.
Youngs (ben) has no brain at times - Ditto Manu. Both very good players but they made some big errors today.
What galls me most is that Wales didn't play well today, they just took advantage of us being predictable in attack, naive in the set piece and fucking stupid in defence (at times). Gifting them a lead with stupid penalties made the job so much harder than it should have been.
I agree on Croft, I rate him very highly when fit but if not he shouldn't be playing. Disagree on Farrell I've seen him play very effectively as a 10 other than just kicking, but he didn't yesterday. That said the ball the backs got was poor most of the time. Goode is just not very good. The sooner Foden is back the better.
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Sorry Rip but your summation that 'Wales will trounce England as they hate the Engish more than they love their own country" is bollox. Only the English were calling it this way. No-one in Wales judges the season on the result against England anymore. And as for BCFC syndrome, we defended our title, have more titles and 'slams than you in recent times, and look set to provide a lot more of the Lions team. And yes I know England won the World Cup, but that was a while ago now...
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Sorry Rip but your summation that 'Wales will trounce England as they hate the Engish more than they love their own country" is bollox. Only the English were calling it this way. No-one in Wales judges the season on the result against England anymore. And as for BCFC syndrome, we defended our title, have more titles and 'slams than you in recent times, and look set to provide a lot more of the Lions team. And yes I know England won the World Cup, but that was a while ago now...
A while ago or not England have their name on it whereas Wales don't and lets be really honest, Wales fully deserved to win yesterday, but worthy 6 Nations Champions? Really, honestly? They were average throughout until yesterday and somehow shrugged off the mediocrity that had infested their game whereas England just got worse game by game. A tie would have been the fairest result!
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(http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/29012_443628075713224_924442354_n.jpg)
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Sorry Rip but your summation that 'Wales will trounce England as they hate the Engish more than they love their own country" is bollox. Only the English were calling it this way. No-one in Wales judges the season on the result against England anymore. And as for BCFC syndrome, we defended our title, have more titles and 'slams than you in recent times, and look set to provide a lot more of the Lions team. And yes I know England won the World Cup, but that was a while ago now...
A while ago or not England have their name on it whereas Wales don't and lets be really honest, Wales fully deserved to win yesterday, but worthy 6 Nations Champions? Really, honestly? They were average throughout until yesterday and somehow shrugged off the mediocrity that had infested their game whereas England just got worse game by game. A tie would have been the fairest result!
Having scored the most tries and not conceded one in four matches (three of those away from home), I would say that Wales deserved to win the tournament.
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(http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/29012_443628075713224_924442354_n.jpg)
I was quite expert yesterday in managing to hit mute every time just before that annoying c**t spoke.
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Our front row need to learn to play the ref, 2-3 penalties/freekicks they got were caused by them being a bit devious and us not being wise enough to make it obvious. Mako got caught by one right after he came on where the bind was on his arm and pulled him down so he missed his bind. The ref was on the other side so he just saw it collapse with Vunipola the first to go and gave them the pen.
That and also the baffling reason that we contaminate the 6N with Southern Hemisphere refs like Steve Walsh.
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Steve Walsh should be left to do the Under 12s in future, it's all he's ever been fit for, the Mark Halsey of Rugby.
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I don't mean this to be anti-welsh, I apologise if it comes across that way.
Having calmed down from saturday my thought for this tournament is that the current path Lancaster has us set on is to follow the route Wales have taken. Be solid up front and play a pick and drive game, only going out to the wings in broken field and treating the backs as an extension of the backrow. It's successful at the 6N but I don't think it can work at world cup level (this is me categorically stating that Wales won't win the next world cup with the side they have), which is why I'm so disappointed with our 10, 12, 13 combination currently.
All 3 of Farrell, Barritt and Manu can break the line, I don't question that, what I do question is what they do next. Manu has the ability to push on, but isn't really quick enough to break 30-40yards from there but he does exactly what you want from a bustling crash centre, Farrell and Barritt look like they didn't expect to get through and generally end up just running at another man and resetting for another ruck. When Billy 36 was in there he broke the line and then looked for someone running on to change the angle and we looked a lot more dangerous for it. Burns is similar, he breaks the line and then looks to bring other people into it. The other option is Joseph who breaks the line and then trusts his pace to take him away.
We need to start having these options. On top of that we need to support them by having an 8 who wants to get involved in the play (Morgan does this really well but it's not something that Wood does naturally which is why we've looked short of ideas since Morgan picked up his injury and why Billy V needs to get a chance) and wingers with the ability and pace to get on their shoulders and offer support (this is Ashton's best quality by far and the lack of chances to use it is why he's so anonymous - interestingly his lack of tries is at club level too, with Farrell and Barritt both inside him again).
Fundamentally we have the pace and trickery in the outside backs to play more like australia and new zealand but seem intent to pick a team to play northern hemisphere rugby and rely on territory and physicality.
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I'm glad you have calmed down Paul E, because I certainly haven't. Although that maybe is because I have had to deal with a number of Welsh client's this morning !!!!
I said last week it was a team capable of winning but I feared we wouldn't and I was proven right. I didn't expect 30-3 mind, but I did think Wales would win by the necessary margin to take the title.
Lancaster has done heaps of good things in the last 12 months but that shouldn't make him immune to criticism. He had 2/3 hard calls to make this month and he flunked them and accomodated both players even if one was out of position. It should have been ONE out of Croft and Wood. It should have been ONE out of Barritt and Tuilagi. These are the decisions he is paid royally to make.
We lost the game up front where, as predicted, Marler couldn't handle Jones and Cole found Jenkins too tough. Our back row of were completely outplayed and we so needed a big ball carrier in there. Again, Vunipola should have been in the 23 v Italy, but Croft came in when not fit. Bad decision !!!
Ashton has come in for some fearful stick over the weekend, but how can he contribute when he doesn't get a pass and our sole tactic is too send Manu on the crash ball?.
I do like Alex Goode but he appears to have had all of his counter attacking ability, which he showed plenty of in the Autumn, coached out of him and now it's just HOOOOOOF !!!. Foden must come back, although I do feel Brown deserves a run in his correct position.
I have read this morning that we are going to revamp the backline to be like Wales. They want a big unit on the wing like Manu. Please god no, he just isn't quick enough, centre or he don't play. A winger, no matter how big, has to score tries and there are loads of them in the club game. Let's start with May and Wade eh?
Very very upset, in case you hadn't noticed :-)
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Thinking about it, we should be engineering the backline to play towards Ashton's strengths because if we do that he's a try machine. We need a specialist 8 in the team and hopefully Corbs will be back in the front row soon. It should be Manu and 36 in the centres and May on the other wing with either Foden or Brown at full back.
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I have read this morning that we are going to revamp the backline to be like Wales. They want a big unit on the wing like Manu. Please god no, he just isn't quick enough, centre or he don't play. A winger, no matter how big, has to score tries and there are loads of them in the club game. Let's start with May and Wade eh?
This is exactly my worry in the post above. If we want to make the most of the talent we have coming through we need to move away from the percentage based territory rugby the Wales play. As a nation we seem to be so caught up on stopping the other team from doing there thing that we forget we need to play to our own strengths. Barritt in the centres as a tackler and Brown on the wing to help uner the high ball are symptomatic of us not wanting to let teams play, the problem is, when it doesn't work you concede points and can't score at the other end to make up for it.
It's McLeish-style (to have a bit of a villa theme to the post) 'don't lose' rugby where we're looking to keep it tight defensively and hope that things at the other end sort themselves out.
This has been the basis for my whining about us for years. Whenever we have someone genuinely exciting we seem to focus on the weaknesses and destroy them. Some players those weaknesses are too big (Varndell is a good example, his defence is appalling) but youngsters like Wade and May only have small technical weaknesses but make up for them with a bit of unpredictability which Manu, Barritt, etc just don't have.
As for Brown, fullback or nothing but I'm not convinced he's good enough to justify being ahead of Foden, any time he does something well he undermines it by making poor decisions, I really don't get why so many people have listed him as a highlight of the tournament for us, he's done well from 22 to 22 but made mistakes in key areas that have conceded tries or cost us chances to score. I think he was caught out badly for both welsh tries, the first was a terrible attempt at a tackle and the 2nd was just poor decision making, yes he had 2 on 1 but he needs to either commit to the outside man and hope the backrow get across or commit to the tackle and try to either stop the pass getting away or again hope that cover gets out wide (for what it's worth the first was the right choice in that situation, but either is better than back peddling between them both and not getting a tackle in at all).
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Couldn't agree with you more Paul. This is the whole gist of my Barritt and Tuilagi argument in that they are obviously picked for defence and we are worrying about what the other team will do, instead of concentrating on ourselves.
Let's take Barritt, who I think has had a great season for England if I am honest. He is picked purely for his defensive ability and nothing else. On Saturday, embarrassingly for him, he was totally "gassed" by Tipuric for the 2nd try. If he is getting burned by flankers then what is he still doing in the team?
I read somewhere that you can be coached into being a good defender, but creativity and flair can't be?.
Now Cipriani is a case in point. There probably hasn't been a more naturally talented outside half in England in my lifetime, but instead of building a team around him, the coaches didn't trust him and eventually binned him from the squad altogether. He is now a shadow of the player he was, albeit with the odd fleeting glance and will never get picked again.
I want to see my England backline capable of scoring at least 4 tries a game. Our mentality, as it was with SCW, should be if you score 4 tries, we will score 5. At the moment it is, we will STOP you and then win by kicking goals. We have enough talent to pick a backline to rival NZ if we want.
Finally back to the game. Serious question now and I am half Welsh by the way. Why do Wales only ever get up like they did Saturday for the game against England?. I think someone asked this previously as well. It's no use saying they do it for all games because they patently don't. The atmosphere and the intensity on Saturday? where is it for Australia and NZ?. If they did have it, then maybe they would beat some of the SH teams occasionally?
Just a thought !!
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Steve Walsh should be left to do the Under 12s in future, it's all he's ever been fit for, the Mark Halsey of Rugby.
I couldn't believe quite how bad he was, absolutely shocking.
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Couldn't agree with you more Paul. This is the whole gist of my Barritt and Tuilagi argument in that they are obviously picked for defence and we are worrying about what the other team will do, instead of concentrating on ourselves.
Let's take Barritt, who I think has had a great season for England if I am honest. He is picked purely for his defensive ability and nothing else. On Saturday, embarrassingly for him, he was totally "gassed" by Tipuric for the 2nd try. If he is getting burned by flankers then what is he still doing in the team?
I read somewhere that you can be coached into being a good defender, but creativity and flair can't be?.
Now Cipriani is a case in point. There probably hasn't been a more naturally talented outside half in England in my lifetime, but instead of building a team around him, the coaches didn't trust him and eventually binned him from the squad altogether. He is now a shadow of the player he was, albeit with the odd fleeting glance and will never get picked again.
I want to see my England backline capable of scoring at least 4 tries a game. Our mentality, as it was with SCW, should be if you score 4 tries, we will score 5. At the moment it is, we will STOP you and then win by kicking goals. We have enough talent to pick a backline to rival NZ if we want.
Finally back to the game. Serious question now and I am half Welsh by the way. Why do Wales only ever get up like they did Saturday for the game against England?. I think someone asked this previously as well. It's no use saying they do it for all games because they patently don't. The atmosphere and the intensity on Saturday? where is it for Australia and NZ?. If they did have it, then maybe they would beat some of the SH teams occasionally?
Just a thought !!
Cips is a toughie because he was as responsible for his own problems as anyone else, a lot like Henson for the welsh, he got in the side, had a few decent games and thought he'd made it and didn't work anything like hard enough to show he could remove the flaws from his game. However, a quiet word to start concentrating on his game and showing his main focus was rugby was what was needed, what he got was being dumped from the squad and criticised by the coaches.
Will they come out and criticise Barritt for not working hard enough on his attacking game? Of course not, because the belief that a strong defence is the priority is ingrained so deeply in our game that we can't break away from it.
This has been my argument in favour of Wade all along (I actually think Johnny May has stepped ahead of him this year though). This is a winger who is as quick as almost anyone in the game and has better than a 1 in 2 record but we won't pick him in case he makes a mistake under a high kick, I repeat, not because he's played and has made mistakes but because we're scared that he might. Instead we play a fullback out of position instead and act surprised that he hasn't scored in 16 appearances. Then if he makes mistakes with the ball in hand that cost us scoring chances he's safe because at least his defence is good (which i debate anyway).
Kicking points is very important and having an 80% conversion rate from the tee is a must at the top level but basing your entire game around it is insane.
It drives me mad that we feel the need to change our game to account for other teams (the FB on the wing thing came on the back of them being scared of SA), lets make other teams worry about us, we have a good enough pack to function at the set piece and give us the option to drive through the middle but we need to use the options we have to do something outside that. Manu smashing it in the middle as our main attacking strategy is not going to get us anywhere in the long run, I'm a little worried that the win over NZ masked that as we were clearly a better attacking unit against Scotland when that option was taken away.
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Cipriani I thought was treated appallingly by Johnson. If I am honest, he has never recovered from the injury he got in 2008 just after he played that outstanding game v Ireland.
In the absence of anyone else, Johnno rushed him back for the Autumn Series 2008 when he had 2/3 kicks charged down. For me, he put his body on the line for Johnno when he patently wasn't fit and he has paid for it ever since. A talent like that would be nurtured and developed in Australia and Wales, but we just don't trust flair in England.
In essence Paul, I am agreeing with your entire post. Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Steve Walsh should be left to do the Under 12s in future, it's all he's ever been fit for, the Mark Halsey of Rugby.
I couldn't believe quite how bad he was, absolutely shocking.
My expectations were low when I found out he'd been appointed.
Most of his stupidity came from the scrum, one eyed decision making isn't helped by the ridiculous nature of the scrum today. According to the rule book the scrum is a 'safe & quick way to restart a game' well if that's the case the rules need changing because we waste about 15 - 20 minutes of people like Steve Walsh fannying around with the scrum, case in point the first 2 scrums on Saturday, he made the mark where he wanted the England front row to be, twice he had to step in and move the front row about 4 inches, ooooh look at me everyone I'm in charge. The twat.
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Cipriani I thought was treated appallingly by Johnson. If I am honest, he has never recovered from the injury he got in 2008 just after he played that outstanding game v Ireland.
In the absence of anyone else, Johnno rushed him back for the Autumn Series 2008 when he had 2/3 kicks charged down. For me, he put his body on the line for Johnno when he patently wasn't fit and he has paid for it ever since. A talent like that would be nurtured and developed in Australia and Wales, but we just don't trust flair in England.
In essence Paul, I am agreeing with your entire post. Couldn't have put it better myself.
Cipriani is a bit of a timebomb waiting to go off. I'd imagine that the press have so much dirt on him that and they're just waiting for the right time for their "exclusive" to ruin his career.
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Finally back to the game. Serious question now and I am half Welsh by the way. Why do Wales only ever get up like they did Saturday for the game against England?. I think someone asked this previously as well. It's no use saying they do it for all games because they patently don't. The atmosphere and the intensity on Saturday? where is it for Australia and NZ?. If they did have it, then maybe they would beat some of the SH teams occasionally?
Just a thought !!
Obviously never been to a Wales v New Zealand game in Cardiff Dave!! Also can't have seen Wales play that much in the past few years if you think they only 'get up' for the England games. They seemed pretty up for the games against Ireland and France when they won the grandslams in 2005, 2008 and 2012!!
The Welsh record against SH has been poor for some time now, but they never seem to be able to field a full-strength team when they play those teams. Wales don't have too much strength in depth, so a few injuries really impact on them and they always seem to get thos injuries just before playing the SH teams.
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Finally back to the game. Serious question now and I am half Welsh by the way. Why do Wales only ever get up like they did Saturday for the game against England?. I think someone asked this previously as well. It's no use saying they do it for all games because they patently don't. The atmosphere and the intensity on Saturday? where is it for Australia and NZ?. If they did have it, then maybe they would beat some of the SH teams occasionally?
Just a thought !!
Obviously never been to a Wales v New Zealand game in Cardiff Dave!! Also can't have seen Wales play that much in the past few years if you think they only 'get up' for the England games. They seemed pretty up for the games against Ireland and France when they won the grandslams in 2005, 2008 and 2012!!
The Welsh record against SH has been poor for some time now, but they never seem to be able to field a full-strength team when they play those teams. Wales don't have too much strength in depth, so a few injuries really impact on them and they always seem to get thos injuries just before playing the SH teams.
Injuries is a small part but nothing like as big as the welsh would have you believe, the bigger problem is that if you can stop them getting through around the fringes they struggle to make any impact because they have an entire backline of crash runners. I was never a huge fan of Shane Williams because all he had was broken field running but he was immensely important to the welsh because he's the only player they had with the pace and vision to make things happen from nothing. Their current game plan is to draw the game in tight and try to get a mismatch where cuthbert or north can run at a front row or a weaker tackler and use their pace or power to break into the corners. It works in the northern hemisphere to an extent but in southern hemishpere rugby the front 5 are expected to be much better around the park so the mismatches don't really exist. They'll get the run on someone every now and then but not enough to ever be comfy in those games.
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Finally back to the game. Serious question now and I am half Welsh by the way. Why do Wales only ever get up like they did Saturday for the game against England?. I think someone asked this previously as well. It's no use saying they do it for all games because they patently don't. The atmosphere and the intensity on Saturday? where is it for Australia and NZ?. If they did have it, then maybe they would beat some of the SH teams occasionally?
Just a thought !!
Obviously never been to a Wales v New Zealand game in Cardiff Dave!! Also can't have seen Wales play that much in the past few years if you think they only 'get up' for the England games. They seemed pretty up for the games against Ireland and France when they won the grandslams in 2005, 2008 and 2012!!
The Welsh record against SH has been poor for some time now, but they never seem to be able to field a full-strength team when they play those teams. Wales don't have too much strength in depth, so a few injuries really impact on them and they always seem to get thos injuries just before playing the SH teams.
Injuries is a small part but nothing like as big as the welsh would have you believe, the bigger problem is that if you can stop them getting through around the fringes they struggle to make any impact because they have an entire backline of crash runners. I was never a huge fan of Shane Williams because all he had was broken field running but he was immensely important to the welsh because he's the only player they had with the pace and vision to make things happen from nothing. Their current game plan is to draw the game in tight and try to get a mismatch where cuthbert or north can run at a front row or a weaker tackler and use their pace or power to break into the corners. It works in the northern hemisphere to an extent but in southern hemishpere rugby the front 5 are expected to be much better around the park so the mismatches don't really exist. They'll get the run on someone every now and then but not enough to ever be comfy in those games.
I agree somewhat with that Paul and think that style has been developed under Gatland. We will probably see the Lions playing a similar style in the summer and it is frustrating to watch at times. It involves recycling play towards one touchline with the aim of trying to create some space in midfield for the big runners. One reason that doesn't work against the likes of the All Blacks is that they don't commit too many players to rucks, so are never too stretched in midfield. I've not been a fan of the Roberts / Davies partnership for a while, as like the Barritt / Tuilagi partnership, it doesn't really offer much creativity and the back three don't see much of the ball. Wales have looked far more dangerous in attack in the past when an on-form Gavin Henson has been at 12 as he added that creativity, but unfortunately he seems to be cut from the same cloth as Stephen Ireland when it comes to application.
As for the struggles against SH teams, apart from the fact that NZ/AUS/SA have simply just been better most of the time, Wales have really struggled at the breakdown against those teams and up until very recently, have really struggled with the added physicality they bring. I also think that injuries are more than a small part, as you only have to look at the effect a couple of injuries have had on Ireland's performance this 6N.
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Finally back to the game. Serious question now and I am half Welsh by the way. Why do Wales only ever get up like they did Saturday for the game against England?. I think someone asked this previously as well. It's no use saying they do it for all games because they patently don't. The atmosphere and the intensity on Saturday? where is it for Australia and NZ?. If they did have it, then maybe they would beat some of the SH teams occasionally?
Just a thought !!
Obviously never been to a Wales v New Zealand game in Cardiff Dave!! Also can't have seen Wales play that much in the past few years if you think they only 'get up' for the England games. They seemed pretty up for the games against Ireland and France when they won the grandslams in 2005, 2008 and 2012!!
The Welsh record against SH has been poor for some time now, but they never seem to be able to field a full-strength team when they play those teams. Wales don't have too much strength in depth, so a few injuries really impact on them and they always seem to get thos injuries just before playing the SH teams.
No never been, just taking what I see off TV as my guiding line.
I don't agree with you. The venom on Saturday is never there for any other game other than England in my opinion.
I guess we will agree to disagree
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Not just me that thinks Steve Walsh is a twat then?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9941194/England-unhappy-with-referee-Steve-Walshs-performance-in-defeat-by-Wales-as-they-report-official-to-IRB.html
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Added to this.........
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/scotland/9927794/Six-Nations-2013-Wales-conned-their-way-to-victory-against-Scotland-claims-Scott-Johnson.html
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There were quite a few iffy ones in the scrum where I'd love to have seen it from above as I'm fairly sure Jones was going in at a terrible angle all game. He was also binding on the arm all along, but neither Marler or Vunipola spoke to Robshaw and made him bring it up. That's where we were naive, they got a lot because Warburton was chirping at the ref all game and Robshaw was very quiet.
I still think our biggest problem was the back row though, we had 3 6s on the pitch and it showed, Wales totally dominated at the breakdown with their 2 7s. This is the nagging worry I've had with Robshaw 7 and captain, he's great in most games but as soon as we come up against a top class 7 he looks out of his depth. II still want to see Stefon Armitage given the chance he deserves, 3 starts as injury cover and a couple of 10minute subs appearances just aren't enough to judge someone and in the 3 years since he's gone from being a good club player to being the best back row player in the richest league in the world. I get the point in leaving him out because you can't just take him for a training camp whenever you like but it feels a bit ridiculous when he's one of the star players in europe. If armitage doesn't get a run of 3-4 games before the next world cup it will be a travesty, you can't ignore someone in the form he's displayed for the last 18 months.
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Now that the Six Nations is over, surely we have more ideas on who will be on the plane to Australia with the Lions this summer. A lot will change between now and the end of the season, but I would pick the following squad:
LH Prop - Jenkins / C Healy / Vunipola
Hooker - Best / Hibbard / T Youngs
TH Prop - A Jones / Cole / E Murray (though his need to rest on Sundays might go against him)
2nd Row - AW Jones / Parling / O'Connell / Evans
Flanker - Warburton / Robshaw / O'Brien / Tipuric / R Jones
No 8 - Faletau / Morgan
Scrum Half - Phillips / B Youngs / Laidlaw
Fly Half - Sexton / Farrell / Wilkinson
Centre - Roberts / Tuilagi / O'Driscoll / Davies
Wing - North / Visser / Cuthbert / Bowe (if fit Zebo if not)
Full Back - Halfpenny / Hogg / Foden
As a Wales fan it may be a little Welsh heavy for some (Launchbury and Wood might replace Evans and R Jones for example). I do worry about the lack of big game experience at fly half and that's why I would take Wilkinson, even though he has not featured in the 6N. He's been in good form for Toulon this season and although I wouldn't start him, he'd be a great sub to bring on in the tests if the game needed closing out. I think Bowe and O'Connell are both quality players who will go if fit in time and going on the Lions tour could just be the boost that Foden needs to recapture his form. All this could change very rapidly though as players featuring in Premiership and European finals will come into contention.
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37 listed but I think they'll take 40 minimum.
I also expect 4-5 to be players 'from nowhere' who step up in the next month or so.
Launchbury will go, I think him, Manu, Ben Youngs and Farrell are the certainties from England (with Wood, Cole, Robshaw and Barritt all highly likely as well and 3-4 other maybes). I think it's very easy (as has happened in virtually every 'team of the 6N' I've seen) to forget that England were 4 from 4 and going for a grand slam before they choked in Cardiff, Gatland won't miss that when he picks the team so I expect about 2/3rds of the squad to be english and welsh, with Ireland and Scotland making up the rest. I think your right with the outside backs as I don't think any of the guys who played for England this 6N deserve a place.
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I think Lancaster will use the the summer to bring in the younger players and we'll see in particular a different back three come the autumn. Also back row will be addressed.
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37 listed but I think they'll take 40 minimum.
I also expect 4-5 to be players 'from nowhere' who step up in the next month or so.
Launchbury will go, I think him, Manu, Ben Youngs and Farrell are the certainties from England (with Wood, Cole, Robshaw and Barritt all highly likely as well and 3-4 other maybes). I think it's very easy (as has happened in virtually every 'team of the 6N' I've seen) to forget that England were 4 from 4 and going for a grand slam before they choked in Cardiff, Gatland won't miss that when he picks the team so I expect about 2/3rds of the squad to be english and welsh, with Ireland and Scotland making up the rest. I think your right with the outside backs as I don't think any of the guys who played for England this 6N deserve a place.
I'd maybe look at Mike Brown at FB as opposed to on the wing. I still think that performances in the Heineken Cup and the play offs in the Aviva and Rabo leagues will see some more players come into contention and as you say, there are always some players that seem to come from nowhere. Some of the French based players who didn't feature in the 6N (Sheridan for example) might also come into the reckoning.
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If an english wing/FB makes the squad my money is on Johnny May
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If an english wing/FB makes the squad my money is on Johnny May
I hope not. I want to see him on tour with England and playing in both tests with Christian Wade on the other wing. No Ashton(needs a break anyway and he will come back), certainly no Strettle and no Mike Brown on the wing. As a bolter for England, I like the fella at Exeter who plays U20's, Knoll is it?. Then again, I thought Noah Cato was going to be the next Christian Cullen when he was U20's :-)
Finally, as much as I am still angry with the result on Saturday, I think England should draw a line under it. I don't think the "complaining to the IRB" headlines are strictly true, as we want some clarification. Let's just let it go now eh, we are becoming as bad as Wales after the World Cup :-)