6 Nations 2013

[Dave Summers]

I hope and believe that it will all come down to Wales in March and having seen Scrum V on BBC Wales last night they, as usual, will be right up for England and probably play their best game.  The bias towards Wales and against England on that programme is a sight to behold.  They picked a Lions team last night, Kingsley Jones selection and had 6 Welsh, 4 Irish and only 3 English in it.  Have I missed 38 pts v New Zealand and a draw away in South Africa?

It is a Welsh programme, so what do you expect? As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, I have family from Wales so have an interest in Welsh rugby.  In terms of the Lions, Warren Gatland has a particular style of playing (often referred to as 'Gatlandball' in Wales) that might not suit a number of the current English players.  Yes, England are looking like the strongest team at the moment, but don't be surprised if a number of the team are overlooked in the summer.   

I am half Welsh myself, so I too take an interest in Welsh Rugby.  Yes it is a Welsh programme I accept that, but that doesn't mean it can't have a little bit of objectivity about England?.  They seem to manage it with all of the other nations in the tournament but can't really bring themselves to even give a smidgeon of praise to us?

I thought the comments of Tom Shanklin in particular were illuminating, he was practically salivating at the thought of Wales being the ones to derail a potential Grand Slam for England.  Now if it was Scotland coming too MS for the last game on a GS, it wouldn't even be mentioned.  You and I both know that

In my opinion Wales won't ever reach the heights they could do, while they are obsessed with what England are doing.  They raise their game 50% when playing us and if they could only do the same when they play the big boys, perhaps it wouldn't be 50 plus years waiting on a victory over NZ or 4/5 yrs over Australia?

I actually think most of the Welsh pundits on Rugby are great, Ieun Evans, Scott Quinnell, Lyn Jones, Gareth Edwards was fantastic, Benny etc etc, but some who are employed by Scrum V especially Jiffy,  Shanklin, Gwyn Jones are terrible.  While I am at it, so is Guscott too.   I will take the presenter Jason Mohammed out of it because I have met him and he is a lovely fella :-)

[PaulWinch again]

Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.

[paul_e]

The strange thing with the rugby commentators is that the welsh, scottish and irish pundits are generally unashamedly biased but the english commentators seem to want to prove how neutral they are by actually being anti-english at times.  The number of times I've seen a dubious decision go agianst us and for the english commentator to side with the ref is scary, you never see it with commentators for the other nations, they all go out of their way to 'defend their own'.  Moore is probably the worst for it.

[Dave Summers]

The strange thing with the rugby commentators is that the welsh, scottish and irish pundits are generally unashamedly biased but the english commentators seem to want to prove how neutral they are by actually being anti-english at times.  The number of times I've seen a dubious decision go agianst us and for the english commentator to side with the ref is scary, you never see it with commentators for the other nations, they all go out of their way to 'defend their own'.  Moore is probably the worst for it.

Totally agree and it all comes back to the same aspect, the perceived "English arrogance".  I mean even bloody Telfer was at it the other week and it does get a little wearing.  You couldn't find a less arrogant team than the current England Rugby squad and yet still the same old crap is trotted out year after year after year.  And yet when they pick these Lions squads with 16 Welsh and 13 Irish in. !!!!!  Imagine if we did the same in England?. 

As Peter W said earlier, every nation bar Italy raises their game tenfold for when they play England.  I've been to Edinburgh 4 times in the last 10 years for the Calcutta Cup and the way they whip it up inside the stadium is unreal compared to when they play Wales and Ireland.   Thay said, always have a great weekend up there and love the people and the city

[paul_e]

The worst thing is, the reality is there probably should be 16-17 english players the squad, There could be little argument with picking our entire starting line up (from dublin) other than Marler, Brown, Goode and maybe only one of Twelvetrees and Barritt (Marler because he's only in covering Corbs, Brown and Goode because there are a lot of good wing and fullback options).  So 11-12 there, add in Corbs for 13, Stefon Amitage is the best 7 in europe so him in as 14 Manu is guaranteed a spot so 15 and Lawes has to go to make 16.  That's ignoring Croft, Burns, Johnny May, Billy Vunipola, Foden who are all exceptional talents and start at least an outside chance of selection.

[PaulWinch again]

Completely agree Paul, we have a very strong squad now and behind that there is a lot of talent.

[tomd2103]

I hope and believe that it will all come down to Wales in March and having seen Scrum V on BBC Wales last night they, as usual, will be right up for England and probably play their best game.  The bias towards Wales and against England on that programme is a sight to behold.  They picked a Lions team last night, Kingsley Jones selection and had 6 Welsh, 4 Irish and only 3 English in it.  Have I missed 38 pts v New Zealand and a draw away in South Africa?

It is a Welsh programme, so what do you expect? As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, I have family from Wales so have an interest in Welsh rugby.  In terms of the Lions, Warren Gatland has a particular style of playing (often referred to as 'Gatlandball' in Wales) that might not suit a number of the current English players.  Yes, England are looking like the strongest team at the moment, but don't be surprised if a number of the team are overlooked in the summer.   

I am half Welsh myself, so I too take an interest in Welsh Rugby.  Yes it is a Welsh programme I accept that, but that doesn't mean it can't have a little bit of objectivity about England?.  They seem to manage it with all of the other nations in the tournament but can't really bring themselves to even give a smidgeon of praise to us?

I thought the comments of Tom Shanklin in particular were illuminating, he was practically salivating at the thought of Wales being the ones to derail a potential Grand Slam for England.  Now if it was Scotland coming too MS for the last game on a GS, it wouldn't even be mentioned.  You and I both know that

In my opinion Wales won't ever reach the heights they could do, while they are obsessed with what England are doing.  They raise their game 50% when playing us and if they could only do the same when they play the big boys, perhaps it wouldn't be 50 plus years waiting on a victory over NZ or 4/5 yrs over Australia?

I actually think most of the Welsh pundits on Rugby are great, Ieun Evans, Scott Quinnell, Lyn Jones, Gareth Edwards was fantastic, Benny etc etc, but some who are employed by Scrum V especially Jiffy,  Shanklin, Gwyn Jones are terrible.  While I am at it, so is Guscott too.   I will take the presenter Jason Mohammed out of it because I have met him and he is a lovely fella :-)

I would have to disagree with that somewhat Dave.  Of course England is always going to be a massive game for Wales, but I think the days of "we don't care if we finish bottom as long as we beat the English" are long gone.  Since the formation of the Celtic League, a rivalary with Ireland has also developed, especially as they have been so successful at club level.  I think most Welsh fans accept that although victories over Northern Hemisphere teams are great, the record against Southern Hemisphere teams is not good enough and I think most would swap a win over NZ or SA for a win over England these days.  You say Wales won't ever reach the heights they could do, but it could be viewed that 3 Grand Slams and a World Cup semi-final in 8 years is not a bad return for a country with such a small playing base.

As for your views on the Welsh pundits, I think a lot of Welsh rugby fans share those views as well.  If you go on any Welsh rugby messageboard, you will find they are flooded with posts about how poor Jiffy is as a commentator.  I really admired him as a player, but his commentating is not great.  Funnily enough, he is much better and has a far more professional tone when he is commentating on Rugby League.  That said, it's not like the rest of the pundits aren't biased either.  Phillip Matthews and Andy Nicol are extremely one-eyed, and John Inverdale is ridiculously biased at times.  None of those, however, come near to the levels of bias of Ian Robertson on Radio 5.  Still can't work out why a Scotsman is so pro-English.

[paul_e]

My old club had 4 welsh guys and all of them were happier with an english defeat than a welsh win.  2 of them refused to enter the clubhouse for 2 months after the 2003 WC because of all the 'smug english bastards'.  I can't beleive anyone with more than a passing regard for european rugby wouldn't regard us as the biggest scalp for most of the other sides (other than italy, who always seem most up for the french).

The other big thing about the welsh is that they always seem to be a good side when all the other teams are having problems, as soon as one of england, france or ireland are in form the welsh game falls apart, it's really strange.

[peter w]

Ex-Wales coach in first political move....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21435112

[Jon Crofts]

Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.

Nor can I, that said Brian Moore is a national treasure but pundit & commentator he is not.

[tomd2103]

Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.

Nor can I, that said Brian Moore is a national treasure but pundit & commentator he is not.

See I like Brian Moore as a commentator.  The Butler - Moore combination is by far the best rugby commentary team on the BBC.

[PaulWinch again]

I think Gatland's comments on selecting too many English players for the Lions are a disgrace, and frankly he shouldn't be in the role if he isn't selecting the best side available based on performance.

[Dave Summers]

Can't stand Jonathan Davies as a pundit, he is shamelessly biased. On Saturday he had to stifle a shout when Wales scored their try, and it's appalling.

Nor can I, that said Brian Moore is a national treasure but pundit & commentator he is not.

See I like Brian Moore as a commentator.  The Butler - Moore combination is by far the best rugby commentary team on the BBC.

Not trying to antagonise but I just can't believe anyone rates Eddie Butler as a commentator?.  He has tried presenting, co-commentating and now the full commentator and he is equally pish at all three of them.  He fails to recognise players all of the time, I mean when BOD scored last week it was a good tens seconds before Butler recognised who it was. The stand out Rugby commentator on the BBC by an absolute country mile is Andrew Cotter. 

As for Gatland's comments?.  Words fail me.  I just can't believe he has seriously said that and it says to me that the squad won't be picked on ability at all.  Like Graham Henry before him I don't think he has "got it".  The meaning of the Lions or the history.  It's a complete farce and I agree that he should be relieved of his post immediately and sent back to Cardiff to concentrate on his day job.  Leave the rest of the coaches and beg Sir Ian to come back once more.

[Jon Crofts]

Ex-Wales coach in first political move....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21435112

What a bell end, he does know he can't pick New Zealanders right?

[PaulWinch again]

Yep it's absolutely outrageous, and his position should be considered after those comments. He's clearly not the right man for the job.