how good is the AVFC academy really?

[eastie]

Why do we need to all it EPL though, surely it's just PL to us, we're in England, let others outside distinguish the nationality of the League.  It's like saying to someone are you off to Villa Park, Birmingham today?  We know where the place is.  How many people have spoken about the Premier League and confused the person they are speaking to who had assumed it was a different Premier League?  How many Premier League's are there that we need to distinguish between them by country?  Plus this is a message board for a Premier League team, so do we need to say English rather than Kuwaiti or whoever else may have a PL?

I agree with this , bollocks to the EPL this Is THE premier league !
Well, at least until may.

[DeKuip]

We'll be facing another of our Academy graduates in the English Cup next week!

As for the original question. A good number of the players who come through our Academy go on to make a living as professional footballers, so in that respect it is a huge success. Do we turn out world class players? No, but then how many world class players have come from the Midlands?

I think Clark and Baker in particular will go on to be decent top division players in four or five years time. The danger is they'll do it with someone else after making the mistakes they'll learn from whilst playing for us.

[OCD]

Most of us will know it as the Premier League but the term 'EPL' is an Americanism and possibly used internationally. Whenever you see American tv coverage on one of those things that we're not allowed to talk about, they refer to the EPL. Some people may see it as bastardisation of the English language but it's just the reality that things are termed differently in different places.

[MarkM]

Why do we need to all it EPL though, surely it's just PL to us, we're in England, let others outside distinguish the nationality of the League.  It's like saying to someone are you off to Villa Park, Birmingham today?  We know where the place is.  How many people have spoken about the Premier League and confused the person they are speaking to who had assumed it was a different Premier League?  How many Premier League's are there that we need to distinguish between them by country?  Plus this is a message board for a Premier League team, so do we need to say English rather than Kuwaiti or whoever else may have a PL?

I agree with this , bollocks to the EPL this Is THE premier league !
Well, at least until may.

Can't we just call it Division 1

[Toronto Villa]

The issue isn't just with the quality. There are numerous talented players in our academy. The issue is that most of the recent grads have come in too fast and been exposed, or come into a losing or unstable environment. When you look at a club like Everton, Moyes is able to introduce youth players gradually amongst a squad of more mature, seasoned professionals. It means that there is less stress, and while there is always expectation it usually comes without thr onus of responsibility. It also means that it is that much harder to break through, and the ones that break through are very good. At Man U that is taken to an even higher level, and breaking through at that club generally means you are ready for PL football.

If Lambert is our manager in 5 years, and he's able to stabilise the club, the types of youth player coming through in that set up will be more ready and qualified for first team action than almost any of those we've seen in the past few seasons.

[rutski]

yeah, the kids are shit, the coaches down there are shit, the facilities are shit, the medical team are shit!

[Rioch is King]

Thanks rutski, you made me laugh.

[pedro25]

The guys playing in the first team are essentially reserves, I never heard anyone get excited about Herd, Baker, Lichaj etc when they were playing in the youth teams.  Cahill, Moores, Delfouneso etc were eulogised about in the past and more recently G Gardner and to a lesser extent the likes of Drennan, Grealish, Johnson, Siegrist etc.  I'd certainly add Albrighton and Delfouneso to the first list and probably Clark and Bannan too, they are run of the mill players, nothing to get too excited about, may turn out to be reasonable lower Prem/Championship players like Ridgewell, Whittingham, L Moore and S Davis, but nothing more imo.  Weimann will probably be the best of the lot imo.  Still, if say Weimann, Gardner and a couple of the next generation go on to be top players that's still not bad going for our Academy.

[fredm]

I think part of the problem has been that only a few of them have been out on loan, and then mostly for short periods.  We have been happy to have them playing in the second string league (whatever name they give it) where they have been playing against younger and more inexperienced players than themselves and then when we have won that league, have clapped ourselves on the back and said how good they are, whilst all the time players at other clubs have been experiencing the hard grind amongst the lower league players and often, not always, have returned better for it.

[not3bad]

Why do we need to all it EPL though, surely it's just PL to us, we're in England, let others outside distinguish the nationality of the League.  It's like saying to someone are you off to Villa Park, Birmingham today?  We know where the place is.  How many people have spoken about the Premier League and confused the person they are speaking to who had assumed it was a different Premier League?  How many Premier League's are there that we need to distinguish between them by country?  Plus this is a message board for a Premier League team, so do we need to say English rather than Kuwaiti or whoever else may have a PL?

I agree with this , bollocks to the EPL this Is THE premier league !
Well, at least until may.

Can't we just call it Division 1

I like "The First Division".

[Billy Walker]

As others have said, the problem is that we have had to throw them all in together.  If we take Ciaran Clark as an example, let us not forget that he capatained England at every level up to U20's before electing to play for Ireland.  The final England side he captained contained Gibbs, Smalling, Sturridge, Scott Sinclair and Ryan Bertrand to name but a few - surely this would suggest he is highly regarded in the game and a player of some potential? 

Unlike his erstwhile England team mates, Clark (and the rest of his Bodymoor Heath peers) has not had the luxury of playing for a settled team competing at the top, instead he has been fire-fighting for the best part of two years.  Would any young player look consistently good in such a situation?  Remember how average Gareth Bale seemed to be when he first started off in that struggling Tottenham team?  Now is not the time to fully judge these players.

[bertlambshank]

At least he didn't say 'Match Day 12'

[ktvillan]

I've been saying for a long time that the club is very good at producing strong youth teams that win youth trophies and look good as a collective, but not so good at producing genuinely gifted individuals.  We churn out a fair few who can perform at PL or championship level week in week out, like Gardner, and Ridgewell but how many genuine top class players capable of looking at home in Champions League level team have we produced? Cahill I suppose, and we flogged him for relative peanuts, and before that there was Barry. 

But other clubs seem much more successful at producing players with the pace, strength and technique to really shine at the top level.  Southampton have produced Bale, Walcott and Oxlade Chamberlain in the last few years, all miles better than anything from our academy.   Many top clubs, and a few lower down as well,  can boast of producing at least one, and often several, genuine world class talents over the last 20 years   

I think Weimann has the potential to be a top player with his movement and finishing, but what I notice about most of our graduates is they seem to lack pace even if they have a decent touch.  Bannan seems technically decent but is very one paced, and Clark and co at the back are often left standing by attackers.  Delfounso has a good touch but seemed to do everything in slow motion at PL level.    You need some pace over 5-10 yards to close down opponents, or to burst past them into space.   Gabby has it, but lacks the touch to make it count.    I think the focus of the academy needs to be more on indvidual technique, pace and strength than on youth team glory.     

[Monty]

Agreed KT. Even when they have enough pace, they seem mostly very indecisive and lack confidence when making decisions in the final third - Albrighton being perhaps the epitome of this problem. I think Clark and Baker could each turn out very well but have been thrown into the deep-end without buoyancy aids, and they look in real need of a break to get their wits together. Bannan looks much more comfortable in a more advanced position and will get better with experience, ie learning which pass to play when. I also agree that Weimann is the best prospect we have, and if we go down I think there are plenty of clubs who would come in for him, he has a great career ahead of him.

[tomd2103]

I think part of the problem has been that only a few of them have been out on loan, and then mostly for short periods. 

Quite a few of them have been out on loan and the majority of them couldn't even hold down starting places in Championship sides which speaks volumes really.