Concrete Ron

[JUAN PABLO]

I just wish manure has snapped him up quick .

[LeeB]

So was I, I didn't want to upset you.

[The Adventurer]

So was I, I didn't want to upset you.

Thank you. It's very much appreciated & you'll be glad to know that my feelings are intact!

[b23]

He had his knee operation in Holland.

He is out of contract.

I'm sure he will be rushing back to to the UK to recuperate.

[Dave]

We don't offer other players we've released the opportunity to stay on and keep themselves fit

Isn't that precisely what we are doing with Chris Herd?

[paul_e]

Well paid,professional footballer who doesn't want to play for Aston Villa.

Are you lot for real?

Fuck him!

Go join a gym & renew your private health insurance "Concrete" (Hahaha) Ron!

That's fine, but then don't moan when players only look out for themselves.

I really don't care whether he thinks he can do better than us or not, he picked up an injury whilst he was still our player and it means he's unlikely to sign for anyone else until he's fit, it costs the club fuck all to help him out and let him use the facilities so if he wants to then why not?  It could mean that when he's asked about us by other players he says how good we were with him when his contract finished and that could be the difference between a player joining or not. The only reason I can think we wouldn't make the offer is as a bit of a 'fuck you you didn't think we were good enough for you' and I'd really hope our decision making as a club isn't based on petty bitterness.

Petty doesn't come into it.  He's out of contract, after being offered a new one, and turning it down because he felt he could do better elsewhere.  Now, he's injured again, he can go and get himself fit elsewhere.  We don't offer other players we've released the opportunity to stay on and keep themselves fit, so why should we do it for somebody who thought he could play for a bigger team?  Far from it being a positive PR story, I think it would be completely the opposite. 

You mean like Herd who we offered a 3month contract to? and are you saying you've seriously never heard of any other clubs doing this?  The circumstances of why he's an ex-player don't really matter, he's not done anything 'wrong' by the club he had a contract and he played to the best of his ability for the length of it.

As I say, if you think we should tell him to fuck off then so be it but don't then be a hypocrite and complain about players not giving a shit about the club and letting their contract run down to leave for free.

The adventurer - I agree everyone is welcome to have an opinion, but one that involves 'fuck him' about a guy who was our captain for 2 and a half years isn't one I have much time for.  Simply put his problems with us were always medical, he came across as a decent guy and taking time out from the summer when his contract finishes to do charity work in India pretty much confirms that, how many players do you see choose to do that rather than a couple of weeks partying?  Decent guy, has had a career ruined by injuries when at his best he's clearly capable of playing at the top end of the international game, for me why not offer him use of the facilities, he still lives in the area (I assume) and will clearly know our facilities well and we still, as far as any of us are aware, have a contract offer on the table for him, it just makes good sense and, as I've said, is the decent thing to do.

[peter w]

To keep it simple for me it's hard to chastise players as mercenaries if that's how they get treated by the clubs.  If that cycle is going to break it will be because someone steps out of line and does things 'just because' and I'd be more than happy for us to be a club willing to do that for our ex-players.  I understand all the arguments against it, I just can't agree with the whole 'dead to us now' attitude that people have towards ex-players whilst also being pissed off by players who put their bank balance/trophy cabinet ahead of the club.

It's not a 'he's dead to me attitude' but we could potentially be helping a player and club who could be league rivals. I don't think it shows us as doing the right thing but being naive.

[The Adventurer]

Well paid,professional footballer who doesn't want to play for Aston Villa.

Are you lot for real?

Fuck him!

Go join a gym & renew your private health insurance "Concrete" (Hahaha) Ron!

That's fine, but then don't moan when players only look out for themselves.

I really don't care whether he thinks he can do better than us or not, he picked up an injury whilst he was still our player and it means he's unlikely to sign for anyone else until he's fit, it costs the club fuck all to help him out and let him use the facilities so if he wants to then why not?  It could mean that when he's asked about us by other players he says how good we were with him when his contract finished and that could be the difference between a player joining or not. The only reason I can think we wouldn't make the offer is as a bit of a 'fuck you you didn't think we were good enough for you' and I'd really hope our decision making as a club isn't based on petty bitterness.

Petty doesn't come into it.  He's out of contract, after being offered a new one, and turning it down because he felt he could do better elsewhere.  Now, he's injured again, he can go and get himself fit elsewhere.  We don't offer other players we've released the opportunity to stay on and keep themselves fit, so why should we do it for somebody who thought he could play for a bigger team?  Far from it being a positive PR story, I think it would be completely the opposite. 

You mean like Herd who we offered a 3month contract to? and are you saying you've seriously never heard of any other clubs doing this?  The circumstances of why he's an ex-player don't really matter, he's not done anything 'wrong' by the club he had a contract and he played to the best of his ability for the length of it.

As I say, if you think we should tell him to fuck off then so be it but don't then be a hypocrite and complain about players not giving a shit about the club and letting their contract run down to leave for free.

The adventurer - I agree everyone is welcome to have an opinion, but one that involves 'fuck him' about a guy who was our captain for 2 and a half years isn't one I have much time for.  Simply put his problems with us were always medical, he came across as a decent guy and taking time out from the summer when his contract finishes to do charity work in India pretty much confirms that, how many players do you see choose to do that rather than a couple of weeks partying?  Decent guy, has had a career ruined by injuries when at his best he's clearly capable of playing at the top end of the international game, for me why not offer him use of the facilities, he still lives in the area (I assume) and will clearly know our facilities well and we still, as far as any of us are aware, have a contract offer on the table for him, it just makes good sense and, as I've said, is the decent thing to do.

Oh right,so because he's our "EX" captain,who is no longer contracted to us & who sees himself as the Bob Geldof of the football world it means we should offer him our facilities free of charge to enable himself to get fit & to put himself into a position to gain another job elsewhere with another club?

I was right about opinions & you having no time for mine makes me feel great because I'd hate someone with your ideals to agree with me!

I hope when Delph returns from Oz we let him use BH just until he settles in Manchester!

Honestly,I despair at times!

[Risso]

Well paid,professional footballer who doesn't want to play for Aston Villa.

Are you lot for real?

Fuck him!

Go join a gym & renew your private health insurance "Concrete" (Hahaha) Ron!

That's fine, but then don't moan when players only look out for themselves.

I really don't care whether he thinks he can do better than us or not, he picked up an injury whilst he was still our player and it means he's unlikely to sign for anyone else until he's fit, it costs the club fuck all to help him out and let him use the facilities so if he wants to then why not?  It could mean that when he's asked about us by other players he says how good we were with him when his contract finished and that could be the difference between a player joining or not. The only reason I can think we wouldn't make the offer is as a bit of a 'fuck you you didn't think we were good enough for you' and I'd really hope our decision making as a club isn't based on petty bitterness.

Petty doesn't come into it.  He's out of contract, after being offered a new one, and turning it down because he felt he could do better elsewhere.  Now, he's injured again, he can go and get himself fit elsewhere.  We don't offer other players we've released the opportunity to stay on and keep themselves fit, so why should we do it for somebody who thought he could play for a bigger team?  Far from it being a positive PR story, I think it would be completely the opposite. 

You mean like Herd who we offered a 3month contract to? and are you saying you've seriously never heard of any other clubs doing this?  The circumstances of why he's an ex-player don't really matter, he's not done anything 'wrong' by the club he had a contract and he played to the best of his ability for the length of it.

As I say, if you think we should tell him to fuck off then so be it but don't then be a hypocrite and complain about players not giving a shit about the club and letting their contract run down to leave for free.

The adventurer - I agree everyone is welcome to have an opinion, but one that involves 'fuck him' about a guy who was our captain for 2 and a half years isn't one I have much time for.  Simply put his problems with us were always medical, he came across as a decent guy and taking time out from the summer when his contract finishes to do charity work in India pretty much confirms that, how many players do you see choose to do that rather than a couple of weeks partying?  Decent guy, has had a career ruined by injuries when at his best he's clearly capable of playing at the top end of the international game, for me why not offer him use of the facilities, he still lives in the area (I assume) and will clearly know our facilities well and we still, as far as any of us are aware, have a contract offer on the table for him, it just makes good sense and, as I've said, is the decent thing to do.

You're right, he did have a contract, which ran out.  He decided not to accept the offer, and until only a few days ago, was still being linked with Southampton after telling the world he wanted to play for a bigger club.  The fact that he's got an injury again isn't our fault, and having turned us down, Sherwood is getting on with things, and has signed somebody for his position in Micah Richards.  And I haven't complained about players running down their contract.  He has done exactly that, and was perfectly entitled to sign for somebody else, and I was hoping he'd do just that.  Nobody is at fault here, the contractual arrangement came to an end.  The club did the right thing then by offering him a new contract, which he turned down.  That was entirely his right, and his choice, but having done so, there's no moral case for Villa to have him round the place at all. 

[paul_e]

To keep it simple for me it's hard to chastise players as mercenaries if that's how they get treated by the clubs.  If that cycle is going to break it will be because someone steps out of line and does things 'just because' and I'd be more than happy for us to be a club willing to do that for our ex-players.  I understand all the arguments against it, I just can't agree with the whole 'dead to us now' attitude that people have towards ex-players whilst also being pissed off by players who put their bank balance/trophy cabinet ahead of the club.

It's not a 'he's dead to me attitude' but we could potentially be helping a player and club who could be league rivals. I don't think it shows us as doing the right thing but being naive.

Or we could be rahabilitating a guy who then signs a new deal with us at Christmas to cover for the fact that Baker is out for the season having dislocated an eyebrow and Richards in on a 6month ban for taking a few swings at Delph.

[Risso]

We don't offer other players we've released the opportunity to stay on and keep themselves fit

Isn't that precisely what we are doing with Chris Herd?

No, we offered him a three month contract, which presumably he's signed.  Valerie was offered a new contract, which he didn't want to sign.

[Risso]

To keep it simple for me it's hard to chastise players as mercenaries if that's how they get treated by the clubs.  If that cycle is going to break it will be because someone steps out of line and does things 'just because' and I'd be more than happy for us to be a club willing to do that for our ex-players.  I understand all the arguments against it, I just can't agree with the whole 'dead to us now' attitude that people have towards ex-players whilst also being pissed off by players who put their bank balance/trophy cabinet ahead of the club.

It's not a 'he's dead to me attitude' but we could potentially be helping a player and club who could be league rivals. I don't think it shows us as doing the right thing but being naive.

Or we could be rahabilitating a guy who then signs a new deal with us at Christmas to cover for the fact that Baker is out for the season having dislocated an eyebrow and Richards in on a 6month ban for taking a few swings at Delph.

Or Vlaar could injure himself again, or could sign for somebody else.  One of the upsides of signing a new contract is that clubs are then legally obliged to help you if you're injured.  Of course, players can take the risk that they'll stay fit and be offered a new challenge and a pay rise at a "bigger" club.  Vlaar took the risk, and now has to live with the consequences.  He didn't want to be at Villa any more, exactly the same as Delph doesn't, and Benteke doesn't. 

[Dave]

We don't offer other players we've released the opportunity to stay on and keep themselves fit

Isn't that precisely what we are doing with Chris Herd?

No, we offered him a three month contract, which presumably he's signed.

A quick Google suggests that he hasn't - according to his Dad anyway.

Don't know whether that means he has cut all ties with us or not though.

[paul_e]

To keep it simple for me it's hard to chastise players as mercenaries if that's how they get treated by the clubs.  If that cycle is going to break it will be because someone steps out of line and does things 'just because' and I'd be more than happy for us to be a club willing to do that for our ex-players.  I understand all the arguments against it, I just can't agree with the whole 'dead to us now' attitude that people have towards ex-players whilst also being pissed off by players who put their bank balance/trophy cabinet ahead of the club.

It's not a 'he's dead to me attitude' but we could potentially be helping a player and club who could be league rivals. I don't think it shows us as doing the right thing but being naive.

Or we could be rahabilitating a guy who then signs a new deal with us at Christmas to cover for the fact that Baker is out for the season having dislocated an eyebrow and Richards in on a 6month ban for taking a few swings at Delph.

Or Vlaar could injure himself again, or could sign for somebody else.  One of the upsides of signing a new contract is that clubs are then legally obliged to help you if you're injured.  Of course, players can take the risk that they'll stay fit and be offered a new challenge and a pay rise at a "bigger" club.  Vlaar took the risk, and now has to live with the consequences.  He didn't want to be at Villa any more, exactly the same as Delph doesn't, and Benteke doesn't. 

and if he had signed a new contract this thread would just be full of people moaning about him getting injured again.

anyway, I can see that this is one of those topics where there's going to be 2 clear lines of thought and no amount of discussion is going to cause anyone to swap sides so lets just call it a draw and move on.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Why on earth are people getting so cross about this?  I think this reflects really well on the club, it's a decent thing to do.  It's the sort of thing that sets us apart.  So what if we help him get fit and he goes and signs for a rival club?  Doesn't make us mugs, or naive, or anything like that.  There are times when I'd love to see Villa be more hard-faced and ruthless as a club, but saying "fuck him" when our former captain simply needs the use of our gym is really not one of those times.