Randy Lerner

[Stu]

It's all very well saying brining in younger lower league players is all part of Lambert's forward planning but what other choice does he have?  In other words, it's not so much part of his plan as it is a restriction that's been imposed on him.

Which is probably why we haven't had the slightest sniff of a new signing since the window opened; we need quality, but it costs.

[pestria]

it seems to me that Randy has actually been pretty benevolent with funds but I am the first to admit I don't understand the machinations of football finace. Is it possible to quantify exactly how much he  personally has put in, including the purchase price, since 2006 and how much has come back to him? Is he really Scrooge incarnate? Lots of shortcomings as a businessman and owner but surely a lot of clubs would be happy with him as their owner?

To try and answer your question in the spirit it was probably intended, then common estimates on this site point to around £250m.

But ... Sorry to have a go at you, these sort of questions  really piss me off.

Benevolence - usually means charitable activity/financial support.  Let's make it clear, Lerner is no benefactor to AVFC.  He bought the club as either a plaything or an investment.   He has not 'put anything in' for others to use, he has funded his own interests.  When he bought the club he forced through the purchase of all existing shares - either he wanted the toy all for himself or he thought there was money to be made.  Either way it didn't fit with running some kind of charitable foundation.

As the club is now probably worth somewhere around £175-200m then his toy (or investment) has cost him £50m+.

I'm not that sure many (premiership) clubs would be happy to have Lerner as their owner.   He hasn't got the personal wealth to compete with the big boys and their toys.  He hasn't got the acumen himself or to appoint the right management team to run a club at a competitive level on a break even basis.  Sooner or later something has to give (see last three seasons) - not many supporters want to see that happening to their club.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.

That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.

[pestria]

It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.

That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.

Agreed, but I don't know if he's even capable of doing that.

Villadelph(?) on here said he ran Cleveland Browns with same degree of blind loyalty to his CEO and general incompetence as he has shown here.

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't think he is, either. Which is partly why we are where we are.

[hilts_coolerking]

It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.

That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.

It's symptomatic of Lerner's decision making isn't it, the lurching from one extreme to another.  From O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish to Lambert; from paying over the odds for seemingly anyone and everyone, to turning the taps off, to spending a fair whack on untested youngsters.  There's no method behind any of it.  Lerner's approach seems to be dictated by whatever happens to be in front of his nose at any given point, i.e. firefighting rather than planning.

[Monty]

It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.

That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.

It's symptomatic of Lerner's decision making isn't it, the lurching from one extreme to another.  From O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish to Lambert; from paying over the odds for seemingly anyone and everyone, to turning the taps off, to spending a fair whack on untested youngsters.  There's no method behind any of it.  Lerner's approach seems to be dictated by whatever happens to be in front of his nose at any given point, i.e. firefighting rather than planning.

Agreed entirely, very good summary.

[Risso]

It's the slavish sticking to low wage players that I find hard to comprehend, especially as it looks like leading to our demise from the Premier League which will take a sledge hammer to our finances.  I can appreciate the general point about having wages as a manageable proportion of turnover, but that should play a part of an overall sensible financial strategy. (The sort that should have been place under O'Neill, but hey...).  Firstly, while it's all very admirable buying younger, hungry players, you don't always get value for money or any sort of resale value, see Curtis Davies and Fabian Delph as examples.  Secondly, if Lambert is being forced to stick to a certain wage limit, this ignores the point that it's perfectly possible to get value for money from older, more expensive players.  Lambert bought lots of youngsters obviously this summer, and spent say £23m.  If instead of buying Bennett, Bowery and KEA all on say £20K each and paying £6m, if we'd bought one excellent defender for £8m and paid him £50K a week, would we be better off now, if we'd conceded far fewer goals?  It's not a precise science of course and there's no guarantee of success, but there should be a degree of flexibility there rather than dogmatically sticking to an "only young players from lower leagues on £20K or less" policy.

[Monty]

I agree with many points there, Riss. Given the hit the club would take on its income in the event of relegation, it's almost as if the club have decided to prepare for that with an extremely low wage structure.

[Risso]

There seems to be a view that there's no middle ground between buying people like Joe Bennett or blowing £8m on the likes of Warnock that gets me.

[TopDeck113]

A Citeh fan said to me this morning - and it was meant with heartfelt sympathy - that he reckons that we are taking the position they've left vacant, i.e. the "big" club that whenever possible manages to fuck up and make itself a laughing stock.

In my prevailing mood I found the suggestion difficult to disagree with - and thought what a wonderful achievement by Randy and his team of incompetents.

[villadelph]

A Citeh fan said to me this morning - and it was meant with heartfelt sympathy - that he reckons that we are taking the position they've left vacant, i.e. the "big" club that whenever possible manages to fuck up and make itself a laughing stock.

In my prevailing mood I found the suggestion difficult to disagree with - and thought what a wonderful achievement by Randy and his team of incompetents.

I was talking to a Toony on Monday and before he even said hello he asked, "You know one of us is going down right..?" And then proceeded to say , "It wasn't that bad." But, I don't think we'd bounce right back up.

[PaulWinch again]

Put your hand in your pocket Lerner, this team needs investment this month and if it doesn't get it it will go down. Then you miss out on the new TV deal and we'll be stuffed.

[David_Nab]

Think it's time for Randy to go , he gave it his best but it's not been good enough.Lack of knowledge allowing wages to spiral and money to be wasted has now left as for thr 3rd season in a row looking like going down ..this time of all the three I fear the most.The recent defeats have shown up a team lacking in experiance .quality and confidence.

Still we wait around for players to help us and nothing has happened.This year I doubt we can hang on Soton and QPR are going to spend to stay up.I fear for the club and the disaster of going down.

[NeilH]

It’s all very well asking for Randy to pack his bags and leave, but who in the name of god would take over?

Let’s look at the facts. We are a middling Midlands club who lurch from one crisis to the next and whose fans are prone to turn on either the manager/players/board at any given point. Add to that the fact that, despite the investment of Randy and the optimism that abounded when he came, we have still struggled to fill the ground on a regular basis, despite being in a large catchment area and offering some of the most attractive ticket prices in the Premier League.

In addition, outside of the UK we are virtual unknowns to the average Johnny Foreigner. Citeh, at least had the benefit of sharing the city name with a world brand. Many of the colleagues, who I work with, have no clue as to where we play, let alone understand our history and the Dutch are normally pretty good with these things.

I’m as unhappy as the next man as to the state of the club right now, but Randy is not going anywhere currently and even if he was, I very much doubt there would be a line of suitors ready to snap us up.