Darren Bent

[paul_e]

Time will tell with Bent but Lambert clearly isn't going to disrupt the development of the way he wants us to play to accommodate him.

Well said. The rest of the team is too weak to build it around a lazy player like Bent. In a couple of years time, with the addition of a few decent players, we will be up there with the best of them.

I think it will be a lot longer than 2 years before we are up there with the best of them, top 8 maybe as good as it will get by then , but although we have bought some really good players in Westwood, benteke, Lowton the fear is that once they get really established then one of the so called big 4 will snap them up and we will sell.

The hope is though that we buy 1-2 of them in every window, as well as replacing any that do leave.  As I've said before it's all down to a strong scouting network.  Our current side is very reliant on Benteke as a focal point for the team, if our scouting system is working as I expect Lambert wants it too we'll be looking all over the world for similar players and building a portfolio of replacements so, if he does leave we can sign a replacement within days and then use the profit to build the squad up.

[Mister E]

What we need to improve on is the Ireland/Gabby/Weimann/Holman position (or positions in the 4-2-3-1), because Bent standing around upfield doesn't really help much.

This is bang on: we created some chances on Saturday - as we did against the Arse - but none of them were nailed-on goalscoring opportunities. Although we should have won both games, and the press reports generally had us as the likely winners, we were not 'robbed'.
We need players in the '3' who can conssitently make the killer pass, make the run ahead of the lone striker and be able to beat their man with the ball.

We are, I think, close to this but not quite yet.

[ktvillan]

There were plenty on here using the subs appearances on Saturday as proof positive that there's no room for Bent or Ireland in Lambert's system.  I don't think the facts necessarily bear that out.  Our big problems are creativity and cutting edge.  My take on that is that Lambert is willing to sacrifice those aspects to an extent for the time being in order to make us more solid and hard to beat.   

But at some stage we’re going to need to add the creativity and cutting edge to the mix, and I think we will need both Ireland and Bent.   For all the talk about the pair of them not fitting into Lambert’s system, Bent is still our joint second top PL scorer (despite hardly playing for 12 games), with only one fewer than Benteke,  and is sitting on the bench (sometimes) with our other joint second top scorer, Weimann.   Some of our better attacking performances  (Newcastle, Swansea, Man Yoo, Sunderland) have featured Ireland linking play very nicely.  Bent started in the first two, with no apparent defensive calamities ensuing, for which he seemed to attract an awful lot of blame at Southampton, despite Vlaar, Lowton, Westwood, Clark and a few other all being abysmal that day.   And I recall  plenty of creative attacking play in those games.  I recall Bent was also fairly heavily involved in both games, yet he is accused of standing around waiting for chances on a plate.  Weimann also started in all four of the games mentioned 

For me, those games demonstrate that both  Ireland and Bent can play under Lambert, and they add to our creativity and cutting edge when they do so.   I think with Bent it’s that Lambert only wants to play with one up front so it’s either Bent or Benteke, and Lambert seems to prefer a big, target man type up front. 

With Ireland, and to an extent Weimann,  I think Lambert prefers the perceived extra work rate and solidity provided by  Holman and Gabby.  For the moment.  I think it’s premature to write anyone off simply because they are not first choice at the moment, because I think Lambert will use all his squad at various stages of the season.  But to say neither Bent or Ireland can fit into Lambert’s system is cobblers, in my humble opinion.    It's a bit dull at the moment but maybe the flashy bits will come later.  I think it would be a mistake to write off Bent and Ireland on the basis that they may not be the best fit for this - hopefully temporary - defeat-avoidance philosophy.

[Risso]

We're the lowest scorers in the Premier League and we need to start scoring goals.  If Lambert had anything about him, he'd find a system that utilised the respective strengths of Bent and Ireland in conjunction with Benteke.  Most teams in the bottom half would snap our hands off for Darren Bent, and while we've shown slight signs of improvement, we're still far too close to the bottom three for comfort.  The time to start laying down the law, if that's what he's doing is when we've got enough points on the board that we feel safe. 

[Monty]

KTV, I think you're right about Ireland, but we visibly looked less threatening, in my view, as a result of Bent being on the pitch. The sheer lack of movement outside the penalty area when Gabby was off and Bent on was alarming and obvious, and not alleviated by Ireland's hard work to link up midfield and attack.

For me, Bent isn't the type of player who fits well into a front-foot attacking side. He's a counter-attacking player, who does well in low-scoring defend-and-break sides who play pace 'n' space wingers. Think of MON's style, he'd fit into that perfectly: 4-4-2, two deep midfielders capable of springing an out-ball for two pacey wingers, or to find a target man forward who could draw defenders' attention away from Bent. In this style, the fact that he tends to hog the goal stats for his teams can be seen as a virtue - who needs many different scorers if you're winning 1-0 away from home?

However, when you're looking to play your way through teams - as you always will have to at some point, especially at home where very few will come and attack you - Bent is next to useless. There's very little space for him to find in the penalty area, he doesn't have the touch or creativity to help craft chances for himself or others and he doesn't provide a threat from shooting outside the box. When he's in the team, it's quite clear that we lack spark, creativity and off-the-ball movement even more than usual.

There's a natural tendency when a team isn't scoring goals to look at the striker options. However, that often misses the point, as a team of 11 Gerd Mullers probably wouldn't score very many as nobody is creating the chances in the first place. These days, the predominance of one up front means the striker has to contribute more to the build up play in order to help the creative and goal-scoring midfielders. Benteke is clearly the better option for this - it's behind him we need to improve, and taking out one player behind the striker in order to have one hang redundantly around him won't solve anything.

[JUAN PABLO]

Make the most of it because Bent is going. Nothing we can do about it. Ta ta.

That's what I've heard. He is choosing between QPR and Newcastle apparently.

QPR then ,   London , more money and he did play for Sunderland , so the topless magpies wont warm to him. 

[JUAN PABLO]

.  Our big problems are creativity and cutting edge. 

thats the one

[Concrete John]

KTV, I think you're right about Ireland, but we visibly looked less threatening, in my view, as a result of Bent being on the pitch. The sheer lack of movement outside the penalty area when Gabby was off and Bent on was alarming and obvious, and not alleviated by Ireland's hard work to link up midfield and attack.

For me, Bent isn't the type of player who fits well into a front-foot attacking side. He's a counter-attacking player, who does well in low-scoring defend-and-break sides who play pace 'n' space wingers. Think of MON's style, he'd fit into that perfectly: 4-4-2, two deep midfielders capable of springing an out-ball for two pacey wingers, or to find a target man forward who could draw defenders' attention away from Bent. In this style, the fact that he tends to hog the goal stats for his teams can be seen as a virtue - who needs many different scorers if you're winning 1-0 away from home?

However, when you're looking to play your way through teams - as you always will have to at some point, especially at home where very few will come and attack you - Bent is next to useless. There's very little space for him to find in the penalty area, he doesn't have the touch or creativity to help craft chances for himself or others and he doesn't provide a threat from shooting outside the box. When he's in the team, it's quite clear that we lack spark, creativity and off-the-ball movement even more than usual.

There's a natural tendency when a team isn't scoring goals to look at the striker options. However, that often misses the point, as a team of 11 Gerd Mullers probably wouldn't score very many as nobody is creating the chances in the first place. These days, the predominance of one up front means the striker has to contribute more to the build up play in order to help the creative and goal-scoring midfielders. Benteke is clearly the better option for this - it's behind him we need to improve, and taking out one player behind the striker in order to have one hang redundantly around him won't solve anything.

Very well put.

I think Bent was dropped due to tactical reasons, mainly being our lack of width, and it's his reaction to this that has kept him out since.  However, that tactical issue still remains and having a goal hanger with little overall contribution simply does not fit into our pattern of play.   

[JUAN PABLO]

They were talking about Falco last night and saying he just hangs on the last defender waiting for the through ball. Bit like Bent I suppose.
would we turn Falco down ? no    but whats the point in having him with the system we play .   
I would not mind Bent not playing If we were scoring goals , we will have to just wait until January and see what happens.

[Monty]

Falcao doesn't just do that though. Falcao does that when his team are defending so he can break away on the counterattack, but when they're attacking he joins in as much as anyone. He can also score from just about anywhere on the pitch. Falcao is not a goal-hanger, he's an unbelievable all-round forward, and comparisons with Bent are totally erroneous.

[PeterWithesShin]

The 6 games Bent started this season we took 4 points, 0.66 points per game. The 10 games he didn't start we've taken 11 points, 1.1 points per game.

Doesn't really prove anything but possibly QI for some folks.

[JUAN PABLO]

Falcao doesn't just do that though. Falcao does that when his team are defending so he can break away on the counterattack, but when they're attacking he joins in as much as anyone. He can also score from just about anywhere on the pitch. Falcao is not a goal-hanger, he's an unbelievable all-round forward, and comparisons with Bent are totally erroneous.

I was on about the austrian singer mate               amadeus amadeus

[JUAN PABLO]

Falcao doesn't just do that though. Falcao does that when his team are defending so he can break away on the counterattack, but when they're attacking he joins in as much as anyone. He can also score from just about anywhere on the pitch. Falcao is not a goal-hanger, he's an unbelievable all-round forward, and comparisons with Bent are totally erroneous.

to think there was a few of us banging on about him years ago on here ;(

[JUAN PABLO]

The 6 games Bent started this season we took 4 points, 0.66 points per game. The 10 games he didn't start we've taken 11 points, 1.1 points per game.

Doesn't really prove anything but possibly QI for some folks.

still terrible either way

and going to be worse after the next 3 games

[Monty]

Haha, what about that midfielder Mozart who plays in Austria? Anyway yeah, imagine if we'd signed him. Mind you, this was when MON was about, and signing a player like Falcao is among the most unlikely things I could imagine him doing.