Darren Bent

[Risso]

Strikers like bent are definitely dying out. 100% agree

Hmmmm... I wonder if Gerd Muller will still score 85 in a season now days?

I think Muller himself said he probably wouldn't.

The point is, football evolves, not progresses. Tactics change to suit the times they live in, especially from steps forward in player preparation. Bent's type of forward may come back one day as a solution to some problem which hasn't come up yet, but the way the game is at the moment pretty much squeezes his type of player out.

I don't agree with that at all.  He's a great goal scorer as his record over the last few years shows.

[Monty]

Strikers like bent are definitely dying out. 100% agree

Hmmmm... I wonder if Gerd Muller will still score 85 in a season now days?

I think Muller himself said he probably wouldn't.

The point is, football evolves, not progresses. Tactics change to suit the times they live in, especially from steps forward in player preparation. Bent's type of forward may come back one day as a solution to some problem which hasn't come up yet, but the way the game is at the moment pretty much squeezes his type of player out.

I don't agree with that at all.  He's a great goal scorer as his record over the last few years shows.

His spell at Spurs was really interesting. When he played more and scored more, the number of goals scored by the team as a whole went down. There's a type of system he can play in but it's becoming less and less common - I'd say about two or three out of the whole league play it.

Someone on p. 56 mentioned that it's funny Benteke gets chances and doesn't necessarily score all of them, but when Bent's on 'the service is terrible'. Bent coming on on Saturday made us less likely to score. I don't want him on the pitch if building the side around him scoring prevents the team as a whole creating chances.

[Matt Collins]

It's for very similar reasons that Michael Owen never fulfilled his potential an arsenal won the league with Christopher wreh up front after years if getting nowhere near with Ian wright. You have to play these guys with a partner to do all of the hold up / running into channels stuff. And that has a whole host of other consequences for the way the rest of the team is set up.

[Dave]

His spell at Spurs was really interesting. When he played more and scored more, the number of goals scored by the team as a whole went down.

Is that interesting because it shows Bent is bad for a team, or is it not that interesting because it just shows that an on-form Berbatov and 29 year old Robbie Keane are better for the team? If we had that at the moment I imagine the stats would back up the fact that he shouldn't be playing.

I'm pretty certain that if he's not been in the team at Sunderland that Kenwyne Jones and Frazier Campbell wouldn't have scored more. Ditto at Charlton when Kevin Lisbie and Marcus Bent probably wouldn't have done much better had Bent not played.

And I think our 'goals scored' column at the moment suggests that although the team might be running around a bit more and passing it around the centre-circle better, we're not really showing any signs of scoring many goals while he is out of the team.

[Monty]

His spell at Spurs was really interesting. When he played more and scored more, the number of goals scored by the team as a whole went down.

Is that interesting because it shows Bent is bad for a team, or is it not that interesting because it just shows that an on-form Berbatov and 29 year old Robbie Keane are better for the team?

I'm pretty certain that if he's not been in the team at Sunderland that Kenwyne Jones and Frazier Campbell wouldn't have scored more. And I think our 'goals scored' column suggests that although the team might be running around a bit more and passing it around the centre-circle a bit more, we're not really showing any signs of scoring many goals while he is out of the team.

This is where it gets subjective, but I remember that Spurs team looking pretty flat and unimaginative when he was playing. At the time I put it down to the absence of those two, agreed, but that in itself tells a story - Berbatov is a unique player in his own way, but Bent does nowhere near the work of Robbie Keane off the ball, even of Jermaine Defoe, nor does he move into space outside of the box to help out his midfield.

That passing around the centre circle problem you mention is not helped by Bent coming on and giving zero options to the midfielders in possession. Saturday for m was a case in point - we created precious little with him off the field, with him on the field we created nothing at all as we lost Gabby making himself available outside the box. What we need to improve on is the Ireland/Gabby/Weimann/Holman position (or positions in the 4-2-3-1), because Bent standing around upfield doesn't really help much.

[Risso]

It's for very similar reasons that Michael Owen never fulfilled his potential an arsenal won the league with Christopher wreh up front after years if getting nowhere near with Ian wright. You have to play these guys with a partner to do all of the hold up / running into channels stuff. And that has a whole host of other consequences for the way the rest of the team is set up.

When Arsenal won the league in 97/98, Ian Wright scored 10 goals in 24 games.  Wreh scored 3 in 9.  Arsenal's rise owed more to Wenger and Bergkamp.

[Dave Clark Five]

Make the most of it because Bent is going. Nothing we can do about it. Ta ta.

[pauliewalnuts]

re Berbatov, i saw an infographic in (I think) the Guardian the other day which showed Berbatov's involvement with the game for whoever Fulham had just played, and it was extraordinary. He was everywhere.

[Monty]

re Berbatov, i saw an infographic in (I think) the Guardian the other day which showed Berbatov's involvement with the game for whoever Fulham had just played, and it was extraordinary. He was everywhere.

I love Berbatov. I don't know if there's a single (non-Villa) Premier League player I enjoy watching more.

[Chris Smith]

There was apparently an outcry when Ramsey dropped Greaves for Hurst prior to the 1966 World Cup. Closer to home Peter Withe was seen as a huge step down after Andy Grey. In both cases, the managers were proved correct as the team were better without the more highly regarded individuals.

Time will tell with Bent but Lambert clearly isn't going to disrupt the development of the way he wants us to play to accommodate him.

[Dave Clark Five]

Time will tell with Bent but Lambert clearly isn't going to disrupt the development of the way he wants us to play to accommodate him.

Well said. The rest of the team is too weak to build it around a lazy player like Bent. In a couple of years time, with the addition of a few decent players, we will be up there with the best of them.

[Lobsterboy]

We have scored 12 goals in 16 league games; at this moment in time our system (that Bent is apparently unable to fit into) is not really working is it?

Lots of hard work, lots of endeavour but no cutting edge and very few chances created is reason enough to at least persevere with Bent on the bench until we are safe

If Lambert wants to move him on in the summer then fair play, he's the boss but 7 or 8 goals from Bent off the bench (or in the team) can at the very least help us stay up

[ozzjim]

It will be interesting if Bent and Benteke start together tomorrow.

[Californian Villain]

Make the most of it because Bent is going. Nothing we can do about it. Ta ta.

That's what I've heard. He is choosing between QPR and Newcastle apparently.

[eastie]

Time will tell with Bent but Lambert clearly isn't going to disrupt the development of the way he wants us to play to accommodate him.

Well said. The rest of the team is too weak to build it around a lazy player like Bent. In a couple of years time, with the addition of a few decent players, we will be up there with the best of them.

I think it will be a lot longer than 2 years before we are up there with the best of them, top 8 maybe as good as it will get by then , but although we have bought some really good players in Westwood, benteke, Lowton the fear is that once they get really established then one of the so called big 4 will snap them up and we will sell.