Quote from: Pat McMahon on February 21, 2020, 06:16:17 PMQuote from: amfy on February 21, 2020, 05:19:33 PMIn the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it. The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.Yep - the detail of it belongs in the mental health thread but its just an experience that has really made me think about what it must feel like when the fans are on your back out there on the pitch. I’ve always been someone who thinks the abuse doesn’t help to bring out the best in players, but my recent personal experience of it has really made me feel the true impact of what that must be like for them. I’ve taken a month of sick and have decided to resign. I am fortunate at this point in my life to be able to do so even if there is a gap before I find something else. It’ll have been about 8 months for me too!
Quote from: amfy on February 21, 2020, 05:19:33 PMIn the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it. The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.
In the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it. The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.
"Clearly, demonstrably isn't 4th division " is not objective, though, it is subjective, and that is all it ever can be. Footballers can be judged by hundreds of criteria or combinations of, and each of us will rate varying criteria differently. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Arguing about footballers accounts for probably 80% of the posts on this site. What I don't agree with is people giving players shit when they're out and about / living their life off the pitch. That's way over the top, and much as I think the likes of Westwood and NRC were crap for us, I'd never have been anything less than unfailingly polite had I encountered them 'in the wild'. I also never feel the need to scream obscenities at them during a match, either, for that matter. I'll never like that.I'd also add that, whilst I disagree with Ads far more often than I agree, in saying things like this:Quoteyou show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance. you're doing exactly the same thing you are accusing him of.
you show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance.
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 21, 2020, 07:51:18 PM"Clearly, demonstrably isn't 4th division " is not objective, though, it is subjective, and that is all it ever can be. Footballers can be judged by hundreds of criteria or combinations of, and each of us will rate varying criteria differently. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Arguing about footballers accounts for probably 80% of the posts on this site. What I don't agree with is people giving players shit when they're out and about / living their life off the pitch. That's way over the top, and much as I think the likes of Westwood and NRC were crap for us, I'd never have been anything less than unfailingly polite had I encountered them 'in the wild'. I also never feel the need to scream obscenities at them during a match, either, for that matter. I'll never like that.I'd also add that, whilst I disagree with Ads far more often than I agree, in saying things like this:Quoteyou show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance. you're doing exactly the same thing you are accusing him of.Sorry but no, I can't agree with the bold bit. There is an obvious objective measurement of the standard someone is capable of playing at and it's appearances. Ignoring that and applying any other measurement is being subjective, and is generally because "I don't care what the stats say my opinion is ...". That's not necessarily wrong though.
Quote from: amfy on February 21, 2020, 06:24:38 PMQuote from: Pat McMahon on February 21, 2020, 06:16:17 PMQuote from: amfy on February 21, 2020, 05:19:33 PMIn the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it. The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.Yep - the detail of it belongs in the mental health thread but its just an experience that has really made me think about what it must feel like when the fans are on your back out there on the pitch. I’ve always been someone who thinks the abuse doesn’t help to bring out the best in players, but my recent personal experience of it has really made me feel the true impact of what that must be like for them. I’ve taken a month of sick and have decided to resign. I am fortunate at this point in my life to be able to do so even if there is a gap before I find something else. It’ll have been about 8 months for me too! Good luck and well done on taking action.I hope you feel a weight off your shoulders now.I can only imagine how shit it must be for somebody who couldn’t afford to get out like I did.
But that's totally wrong - number of appearances is also a subjective measure. Just because you think it's the case does not make it true - ultimately it will come down to whether the person in question thinks it is true or not - subjectivity.In my terms of evaluation, number of appearances means nothing. Which is exactly the point i was trying to make - to me it does, to you it doesn't. Therefore it is entirely subjective.I genuinely don't give much of a shit this way or that about Westwood. I didn't think he was very good for us, but then again, that's what I thought of almost all of our players at that time. But that's just my opinion.I just get annoyed by people deciding they've got the truth about what makes a good player or not.
Who called him a wanker and what did he ever do to reach the dizzying heights of 6 out of 10? I asked Simon, but no dice.
I still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker.
Far better players than Westwood sunk without trace at the club at the time. Some of them are regulars at champions league clubs now. It points to a far bigger problem than a crap coach or two. The culture of the club was obviously rotten to the core at the time. I was at Cardiff for what I think was one of Westwood's last games for the club. He started in the middle with Gary Gardner and they were both hooked at half time. I doubt either played much for us again, Tishbola actually came on and was decent the same day. Bruce signed the likes of Hourihane and Lansbury a week or two later. The club was as close to a rock bottom low as possible then.Westwood has done very well to turn his career around to be holding his own in the top division at Burnley since. No world beater for sure but he saw off Drinkys challenge for his place easily. Seems a lot more abrasive and confident these days. Fair play to him. He had potential but just got lost in the Villa Park vortex.
Quote from: saunders_heroes on February 21, 2020, 07:04:00 PMI still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker. I didn't rate the bloke either and I'm amazed we got as much money for him as we did, but why would anyone feel the need to call a player a wanker because took a crap corner? It's totally unnecessary.