Good enough/Not Good Enough

[Clampy]

What i like about Bannan is his ability to pick players out with passes that no-one else in the team can do really. He seems to know where players are on the pitch. He did have a period in the second half last night where he gave the ball away a few times but i still think we should persevere with him. People who already expecting the complete midfielder forget that he's still only 22. We'll create more chances with him and the likes of Ireland in the side than we will Delph.

[Damo70]

Lots of question marks for me, from our so called youngsters who are now around 22/23 to the likes of N'Zogbia. I like Lichaj, Herd, Baker and Lowton. Too soon to say with Bennett. Can't make my mind up on Bannan and Delph. I thought Clark would be the best of the bunch but he hasn't kicked on as much as I expected. Stevens and Albrighton are the definate not good enoughs for me.

[eastie]

What i like about Bannan is his ability to pick players out with passes that no-one else in the team can do really. He seems to know where players are on the pitch. He did have a period in the second half last night where he gave the ball away a few times but i still think we should persevere with him. People who already expecting the complete midfielder forget that he's still only 22. We'll create more chances with him and the likes of Ireland in the side than we will Delph.

Results seem to agree with you clampy- he and Ireland have done enough to start on Saturday.

[Clampy]

Lots of question marks for me, from our so called youngsters who are now around 22/23 to the likes of N'Zogbia. I like Lichaj, Herd, Baker and Lowton. Too soon to say with Bennett. Can't make my mind up on Bannan and Delph. I thought Clark would be the best of the bunch but he hasn't kicked on as much as I expected. Stevens and Albrighton are the definate not good enoughs for me.

The two who i think could be really good if given a good run are Bannan and Baker. Baker would be my choice alongside Vlaar. I like Clark a lot but i'm still not overly sure he's cut out for a centre half. Maybe a few years down the line he will be but yet. Baker's a natural centre half and you can tell. If he can stay clear of injuries he'll be excellent i reckon.

[paul_e]

Lots of question marks for me, from our so called youngsters who are now around 22/23 to the likes of N'Zogbia. I like Lichaj, Herd, Baker and Lowton. Too soon to say with Bennett. Can't make my mind up on Bannan and Delph. I thought Clark would be the best of the bunch but he hasn't kicked on as much as I expected. Stevens and Albrighton are the definate not good enoughs for me.

The two who i think could be really good if given a good run are Bannan and Baker. Baker would be my choice alongside Vlaar. I like Clark a lot but i'm still not overly sure he's cut out for a centre half. Maybe a few years down the line he will be but yet. Baker's a natural centre half and you can tell. If he can stay clear of injuries he'll be excellent i reckon.

What I find quite interesting is that we seem to have struggled defending set pieces since Clark has been out.

I think there's very little between Baker and Clark, both of them (and Vlaar) would look a lot more solid with better covering from the midfield in front of them.

If Dunne can get fit I actually think our defence is fine, Lowton looks good, Bennett is a little hit and miss but has only had 1 really poor game, centrally we're fine and Herd and Lichaj provide good squad options.  We need to get them established as a unit, which will come with time when the injuries clear up.

Up front we're good, we have a better set of forward than most sides in the league, in my opinion at least,  Gabby needs a few goals and Bent needs to get more service but all 4 are well capable of playing at a decent level in the prem.

In midfield we need a leader.  Bannan, Ireland, KEA, Nzogbia, Holman are all good enough and Delph and Albrighton have looked good enough at times but we don't have anyone dictating the game.  What I can't decide is how much of that is ability and how much is belief.

[ktvillan]

Interesting that people's memory of Delph playing well is as an attacking MF, which is what he did well at Leeds.
Successive managers have been trying to shoehorn him into a DMF role: perhaps he needs some time in the role where he made his name; perhaps he should be playing behind the lone striker?
How about Benteke upfront with Weimann and Delph supporting; with a MF three of KEA, Herd / Clark and BB?

Well said. I've never understood why various managers have insisted on playing Delph at DM where he often looked poor, and not as an AM where he looked very promising for Leeds and showed he could score from distance too.  He also looked kind of okay when played at LB, but mostly when bombing forward to support the attack.    I think the combination you suggest, with Delph and Weimann supporting a main striker could offer creativity, energy and movement and might be worth a shot.

[ktvillan]

What i like about Bannan is his ability to pick players out with passes that no-one else in the team can do really. He seems to know where players are on the pitch. He did have a period in the second half last night where he gave the ball away a few times but i still think we should persevere with him. People who already expecting the complete midfielder forget that he's still only 22. We'll create more chances with him and the likes of Ireland in the side than we will Delph.

That's why passing stats can be misleading, they don't take into account the difficulty of the passes being attempted.  Bannan used to overdo the ambitious balls and gave it away far too often, but I think he picks his times better now. Every team needs players who are willing to try the risky, creative pass, especially in the final third.  I do think though that Bannan's best position puts him in direct competition with Ireland, just behind the strikers in the middle.    That's arguably also Delph's best position.

[placeforparks]

lichaj is a woeful centre-back. his positional sense and reading of the game is awful. was caught flat footed for the goal at fulham, and got done for the first last night.

it's telling that lambert would rather shoe-horn chris herd in there.

[Monty]

That's why passing stats can be misleading, they don't take into account the difficulty of the passes being attempted.  Bannan used to overdo the ambitious balls and gave it away far too often, but I think he picks his times better now. Every team needs players who are willing to try the risky, creative pass, especially in the final third.  I do think though that Bannan's best position puts him in direct competition with Ireland, just behind the strikers in the middle. That's arguably also Delph's best position.

Delph doesn't have the ideas to play there, for me. For Bannan, I think his best position might be called the David Silva role: a roving inside-right playmaker. He AND Ireland should play behind Benteke, with one other player there as well in a 4-2-3-1.

[curiousorange]

Bannan's most successful Hollywood pass was to Albrighton at Craven Cottage in 2010. It was sublime, but also 2 years ago.

[tomd2103]

Lots of question marks for me, from our so called youngsters who are now around 22/23 to the likes of N'Zogbia. I like Lichaj, Herd, Baker and Lowton. Too soon to say with Bennett. Can't make my mind up on Bannan and Delph. I thought Clark would be the best of the bunch but he hasn't kicked on as much as I expected. Stevens and Albrighton are the definate not good enoughs for me.

That is a real issue for me.  I remember Shane Warne commentating on a cricket match and referring to somebody having played "20 first tests".  When asked to explain what he meant, he said that the player hadn't really improved since he first came into the side and was still making the same mistakes over and over.   I think that is certainly the case with our younger players and although they haven't played that many games, you couldn't say that any of them have shown any sign of real progression.  They still make basic errors during games (Lichaj's header for their 2nd goal last night a prime example) and although you can't fault the effort, they just don't seem to have moved on.

[mal]

lichaj is a woeful centre-back. his positional sense and reading of the game is awful. was caught flat footed for the goal at fulham, and got done for the first last night.

it's telling that lambert would rather shoe-horn chris herd in there.

Played at left back and right back last night. Thought he was good - great ball for Ireland to set up the first and great early cross for the third. Didn't think there was a lot he could do for thier first... beaten really by the quality of the ball that was played. Didn't think it was his clearing header either... wasn't it Lowton?

[eamonn]

Two years almost to the day in fact. Two weeks later they tore apart ManUre for a spell too. It was to be their Hollywood apex.

[onje_villa]

lichaj is a woeful centre-back. his positional sense and reading of the game is awful. was caught flat footed for the goal at fulham, and got done for the first last night.

it's telling that lambert would rather shoe-horn chris herd in there.

Played at left back and right back last night. Thought he was good - great ball for Ireland to set up the first and great early cross for the third. Didn't think there was a lot he could do for thier first... beaten really by the quality of the ball that was played. Didn't think it was his clearing header either... wasn't it Lowton?

Have to say I like Lichaj, not because of what he's not good at but what he is good at. He's got a bit of the Phil Neville mongrel about him, even when he came on against Norwich it was noticeable how he made the first attacking foray from full back all game. He's not perfect but I have to say I think that along with Herd, he's one of the few scrappers we have.

[Monty]

Lots of question marks for me, from our so called youngsters who are now around 22/23 to the likes of N'Zogbia. I like Lichaj, Herd, Baker and Lowton. Too soon to say with Bennett. Can't make my mind up on Bannan and Delph. I thought Clark would be the best of the bunch but he hasn't kicked on as much as I expected. Stevens and Albrighton are the definate not good enoughs for me.

That is a real issue for me.  I remember Shane Warne commentating on a cricket match and referring to somebody having played "20 first tests".  When asked to explain what he meant, he said that the player hadn't really improved since he first came into the side and was still making the same mistakes over and over.   I think that is certainly the case with our younger players and although they haven't played that many games, you couldn't say that any of them have shown any sign of real progression.  They still make basic errors during games (Lichaj's header for their 2nd goal last night a prime example) and although you can't fault the effort, they just don't seem to have moved on.

Their development has been pretty stunted as well. MON was terrible for the likes of Bannan and Albrighton, and never rated them mainly because of size. Bannan at 18 was very exciting, but MON was the only one out of the whole staff, Sid, McAndrew and so on, who didn't rate him because he valued physicality over skill. GH was quite good for the youngsters but the problems of that season scuppered chances of any serious development, with the behaviour of the seniors a total disgrace. As for Eck, well, he was never going to be good for the development of skillful, attacking players, and they unlearned any of the calm and thought they might have learned under GH and replaced it with fear and neanderthal approaches to football. Hopefully Lambo can get them back on track, and signs are there - Baker and Clark look pretty assured, and Bannan is showing signs of an understanding with KEA and Ireland - but it will take time.