Safe standing trial offer

[amfy]

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding/

[exiled on the wirral!]

I would love to see terraces back, but i just cant see it happening. When the terraces were removed from Villa Park in 1994, there wasnt the compensation culture that there is now. You can just imagine for example if they terrace the lower holte, and the first wet or icy day comes along and somebody slips on sum terracing and breaks his/her leg then you know whats going to happen next. I can see football clubs insurance premiums sky rocketing.

Also, a whole generation of fans have missed out on standing on terraces..i think the excitement of a reintroduction of them would be too much for some people and would lead to bad behaviour.

I think the argument of standing would lead to cheaper tickets is a bit of a myth. Do you think they would be that much of price disparity between sitting and standing...for example if a seat in the holte now costs £30 do you think standing will be any cheaper than £20 bearing in mind the cost of reintroducing terracing? Also the price of seats would probably go up which would put off families IMO.

I loved the old Holte end, my first game on it was for the game against Inter Milan in 1990 and it still remains my favourite game not just for the great performance against a great team but for the sheer excitement of being in a rammed holte end with plenty of crowd surging and an awesome atmosphere. Great memories. But times and attitudes have changed and it just wouldnt be the same.

On the other hand, if it did come in, it would be great to watch the Holte restored to its former glory, from the safety of my front row seat from the North stand!

[amfy]

I would love to see terraces back, but i just cant see it happening. When the terraces were removed from Villa Park in 1994, there wasnt the compensation culture that there is now. You can just imagine for example if they terrace the lower holte, and the first wet or icy day comes along and somebody slips on sum terracing and breaks his/her leg then you know whats going to happen next. I can see football clubs insurance premiums sky rocketing.

Also, a whole generation of fans have missed out on standing on terraces..i think the excitement of a reintroduction of them would be too much for some people and would lead to bad behaviour.

I think the argument of standing would lead to cheaper tickets is a bit of a myth. Do you think they would be that much of price disparity between sitting and standing...for example if a seat in the holte now costs £30 do you think standing will be any cheaper than £20 bearing in mind the cost of reintroducing terracing? Also the price of seats would probably go up which would put off families IMO.

I loved the old Holte end, my first game on it was for the game against Inter Milan in 1990 and it still remains my favourite game not just for the great performance against a great team but for the sheer excitement of being in a rammed holte end with plenty of crowd surging and an awesome atmosphere. Great memories. But times and attitudes have changed and it just wouldnt be the same.

On the other hand, if it did come in, it would be great to watch the Holte restored to its former glory, from the safety of my front row seat from the North stand!

Why don't you click on the link in the post above yours and see what safe standing looks like? I cannot imagine from what you have posted that you have done.  There is as less risk of slips & falls than there is now from even intermittent standing in seated areas. Safe standing isn't terraces. It is something completely different. It is more akin to a 2012 awayday experience but without anyone telling you to sit down. People who think it is a return to old style standing will be disappointed - but it is a very good, and very safe compromise, which would improve the atmosphere.

[exiled on the wirral!]

I hope it does come in, but you know what football clubs are like all these changes will cost and end up costing the supporter, I can just imagine Chelsea charging us £40 plus to stand up at Stamford Bridge.

If villa are going to trial this, i think it should be over a more substantial area, such as the North Stand lower..doing it in a tiny corner at the bottom of the Holte End would be pointless.

[dave.woodhall]

I hope it does come in, but you know what football clubs are like all these changes will cost and end up costing the supporter, I can just imagine Chelsea charging us £40 plus to stand up at Stamford Bridge.

If villa are going to trial this, i think it should be over a more substantial area, such as the North Stand lower..doing it in a tiny corner at the bottom of the Holte End would be pointless.

Hence the word 'trial.' If this one works you do it in a bigger area.

[itbrvilla]

Why on earth is anyone concerned with the cost to the clubs? Surely that isn't a negative. It's each clubs choice what they want to do and spend money on.

[exiled on the wirral!]

I hope it does come in, but you know what football clubs are like all these changes will cost and end up costing the supporter, I can just imagine Chelsea charging us £40 plus to stand up at Stamford Bridge.

If villa are going to trial this, i think it should be over a more substantial area, such as the North Stand lower..doing it in a tiny corner at the bottom of the Holte End would be pointless.

Hence the word 'trial.' If this one works you do it in a bigger area.

What are you going to learn in that tiny corner in the holte?

[exiled on the wirral!]

Why on earth is anyone concerned with the cost to the clubs? Surely that isn't a negative. It's each clubs choice what they want to do and spend money on.

Because it will be the supporter who will foot the bill?

[dave.woodhall]

I hope it does come in, but you know what football clubs are like all these changes will cost and end up costing the supporter, I can just imagine Chelsea charging us £40 plus to stand up at Stamford Bridge.

If villa are going to trial this, i think it should be over a more substantial area, such as the North Stand lower..doing it in a tiny corner at the bottom of the Holte End would be pointless.

Hence the word 'trial.' If this one works you do it in a bigger area.

What are you going to learn in that tiny corner in the holte?

How it works, for a start. I know it's a lot to ask, but how about giving something a try before you knock it.

[exiled on the wirral!]

I hope it does come in, but you know what football clubs are like all these changes will cost and end up costing the supporter, I can just imagine Chelsea charging us £40 plus to stand up at Stamford Bridge.

If villa are going to trial this, i think it should be over a more substantial area, such as the North Stand lower..doing it in a tiny corner at the bottom of the Holte End would be pointless.

Hence the word 'trial.' If this one works you do it in a bigger area.

What are you going to learn in that tiny corner in the holte?

How it works, for a start. I know it's a lot to ask, but how about giving something a try before you knock it.

Im not knocking it, if you read my piece i said i hope would it would be brought in, i just think if you are going to trial something like this you should do it properly..dont know why you are being so aggresive dave, i was just making a point on a discussion board.

[Legion]

He's hardly being aggressive.

[exiled on the wirral!]

He's hardly being aggressive.

Ok sarcastic then.

[dave.woodhall]

I'm not being aggressive, but this subject is a lot more difficult than just sticking a terrace on a large area of what is currently seating and seeing what happens. You will have to deal with councils, police, licensing authorities and a lot of negative publicity from media and such groups as the Hillsborough families. You will have to make sure that everything is 100% safe and nothing can go wrong because it will be the most scrutinised part of any football ground in the country, if not the world. That means a trial in a small area then, if it works, it can be rolled out in a larger section of the ground. If my maths are correct the area in question will cover something like 0.6% of total capacity. That might not sound much but it's a lot bigger than most consumer trials.     

[itbrvilla]

Do you really think the concourse ( if you can call it that) of the North Stand is safe to trial having 1.5-1.8 x more supporters? Doubt it very much. Doing something like that would give Aspinal proper ammo to use against safe standing.

[amfy]

The Witton End, with it's one entry point, has a little too much of Leppings Lane about it to make it suitable for any early trial. One entry point and a long narrow strip of terrace. People will have tickets for a set space, but in the early stages of 'safe standing' they may choose to just revert to what they remember - standing where they like. This could scupper it very early on if there is even a hint of a crush developing because everyone decides to stand near the end where they came in. The principle of standing which is as organised as sitting needs to be well established in small steps, and be well thought out as to which areas of the ground are most suitable.

That corner of the Holte is an ideal start.