Safe standing trial offer

[Dave Clark Five]

This is a strange world. Most away fans including  us stand when there are good seats provided to make a point. I remember being with our supporters in the safe standing area at Werder Bremen and what did most of our supporters do? They sat with their arse on one safety barrier with their feet on the one in front!

When there used to be an allocation of seats at away games,  with standing being pay on the day, there was nobody standing in the seats. When we had the option of standing or seats at
Bristol Rovers last year, they all stood in the seats.
You can't have it both ways. Pay to stand: stand. Pay to sit: fucking sit down. Even last week at Craven Cottage, people had arranged to sit near the front due to being unable to stand. What happened? Nearly everyone in the front row stood up.  I must admit, they did look very clever.

[hilts_coolerking]

It's not going to happen, at least not for a very long time.  Regardless of the evidence for and against, the political risk would be massive.  Every time a game kicked off at a ground where standing had been reintroduced the government that made the decision would be crossing its fingers.

It seems to me that the fans' argument that it would make the atmosphere more like the old days is the one sure thing guaranteed to make the government oppose it, because that's the last thing they want.

[Dave Clark Five]

It's not going to happen, at least not for a very long time.  Regardless of the evidence for and against, the political risk would be massive.  Every time a game kicked off at a ground where standing had been reintroduced the government that made the decision would be crossing its fingers.

It seems to me that the fans' argument that it would make the atmosphere more like the old days is the one sure thing guaranteed to make the government oppose it, because that's the last thing they want.

Most of them that quote 'the old days' weren't even there.

[PeterWithesShin]

It's not going to happen, at least not for a very long time.  Regardless of the evidence for and against, the political risk would be massive.  Every time a game kicked off at a ground where standing had been reintroduced the government that made the decision would be crossing its fingers.

It seems to me that the fans' argument that it would make the atmosphere more like the old days is the one sure thing guaranteed to make the government oppose it, because that's the last thing they want.

Most of them that quote 'the old days' weren't even there.

If they were. they'd realise that the old days often weren't that much better atmosphere wise than they are now.

I don't think standing will come back for a long time, if ever. As hilts says, the risk is too great. Just imagine they bring it back and something did happen, the repercussions would be massive. Who is going to sign off the okay and take the risk?

Plus, with so many new grounds and stands built over the last 20 years, there's probably a fair few clubs that won't be able to just switch seats to standing.

[itbrvilla]

It's not going to happen, at least not for a very long time.  Regardless of the evidence for and against, the political risk would be massive.  Every time a game kicked off at a ground where standing had been reintroduced the government that made the decision would be crossing its fingers.

It seems to me that the fans' argument that it would make the atmosphere more like the old days is the one sure thing guaranteed to make the government oppose it, because that's the last thing they want.

Most of them that quote 'the old days' weren't even there.

If they were. they'd realise that the old days often weren't that much better atmosphere wise than they are now.

I don't think standing will come back for a long time, if ever. As hilts says, the risk is too great. Just imagine they bring it back and something did happen, the repercussions would be massive. Who is going to sign off the okay and take the risk?

Plus, with so many new grounds and stands built over the last 20 years, there's probably a fair few clubs that won't be able to just switch seats to standing.

surely that's the choice of each individual club. Safe standing isn't anything like old standing, there is no risk in modern football stadia.

[JUAN PABLO]

Seems to work well in Germany .

If it brings the price down would be good too.

[olaftab]

Do you think it will bring the price down?  I don't see any reason other than capacity increase and in that case we don't have that problem(?) at the moment! Surely if will be same price but option to sit or stand will be there?

[peter w]

It's not going to happen, at least not for a very long time.  Regardless of the evidence for and against, the political risk would be massive.  Every time a game kicked off at a ground where standing had been reintroduced the government that made the decision would be crossing its fingers.

It seems to me that the fans' argument that it would make the atmosphere more like the old days is the one sure thing guaranteed to make the government oppose it, because that's the last thing they want.

I disagree I think its now inevitable. Once the drip drip drip effect gives way to the first trickle then the floodgates will open and inevitably standing areas will be reintroduced. Villa wouldn't have gone down this route without even the mildest encouragement from the Premier League, FA et al.

Its also similar to when a govt introduces a policy that may initially be unpopular. release rumours into the press about a tax hike, for example, and the majority shout it down in the media and opinions pages. The matter is raised again 6 months or so later and whilst the public is still gainst it you also here more 'experts' and the reasons that it could work. 12 months+ when it is introduced people react with a "well we knew it was coming".

Standing is going to be like this. The Margaret Aspinall's will be able to have their say but will be eventually drowned in a sea of people backing the campaign. Their is an inevitability about this and I think by 2014-15 we will see some standing areas for certain games at top flight clubs.

[amfy]

People do need to bear in mind that safe standing will not be 'like the old days'. It will be like standing at our seats like we do on awaydays now - but safer.

[hilts_coolerking]

Just out of interest, what makes it "safe standing" as opposed to just "standing" and who has determined that it's safe?

[Percy McCarthy]

There should be a debate between Margaret Aspinall and somebody from Bradford who blames the fire on the seats.

[Stu]

and this it what I miss,bouncing up and down on the top right watching the villa win...

I just miss seeing Villa win.

I went to the Malmö vs Djurgårdens match last night and stood on terracing drinking a beer. It was great being able to move about a bit, and because it was cold, better to be standing up than sitting. The atmosphere was great, it just felt like the crowd had more energy than back home where you have to sit most of the time.

Tickets were about £18 as well.

[amfy]

Just out of interest, what makes it "safe standing" as opposed to just "standing" and who has determined that it's safe?

It provides a designated space to virtually every stander. Only a couple of people deep between rails. There is no leeway for crushes. Police & security retain the ability to identify & move in on troublemakers. The days of just finding your mates when you get there, crazy surges, & the anoninmity provided by an old style terrace have gone. This is simply an opportunity to stand in a space designed for standing rather than sitting.

[hilts_coolerking]

It provides a designated space to virtually every stander. Only a couple of people deep between rails. There is no leeway for crushes. Police & security retain the ability to identify & move in on troublemakers. The days of just finding your mates when you get there, crazy surges, & the anoninmity provided by an old style terrace have gone. This is simply an opportunity to stand in a space designed for standing rather than sitting.

Ta very much.  Well that sounds fair enough to me.  I still don't think the government will go for it though, I'm afraid.

[PeterWithesShin]

I sat in the curved seats (as I call them) today. I wonder how they would stop anyone just wandering over from the seats to stand there?