Sell Bent?

[Monty]

Doesn't change the fact that his build-up play was better than Bent's. Also, United at that time in that Premier League were probably more capable of carrying a passenger in attack than we are in the Premier League of today.

[Ad@m]

Because there are other strikers out there who might possibly be just as good at scoring, but who have a better all round game?

In the list of all-time Premier League goalscorers, Bent has 100 goals.  11 ahead of him is someone who has demonstrated in recent years that there is much more to his game than goals and that he can play a deeper role than just a goalhanger...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Emile Heskey!

Just saying...

[Risso]

Because there are other strikers out there who might possibly be just as good at scoring, but who have a better all round game?

In the list of all-time Premier League goalscorers, Bent has 100 goals.  11 ahead of him is someone who has demonstrated in recent years that there is much more to his game than goals and that he can play a deeper role than just a goalhanger...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Emile Heskey!

Just saying...

Emile was at it for the best part of 20 years!

[Concrete John]

Sell our 20 goal a season striker. No chance. We need to concentrate on how to supply him. End of chat.

It's a discussion, not a chat. There should be no 'end' to this. FACT! (sic)

Apologies Legion. Was slightly wound up after a bad day at work.

I just don't understand why we're discussing selling our £18m pound striker.  He has a proven track record of scoring, given the service.

Because there are other strikers out there who might possibly be just as good at scoring, but who have a better all round game?

Drogba and Rooney have around the same goal output as Bent and offer more to the team.  So if we could find one of them I'd agree with you, but if not.......

[Monty]

I don't think it's as simple as that, John. I would like a player who maybe scores a few less than Bent but contributes much more to the team, as that would result in more goals overall. It's not a case of Drogba/Rooney level or you just get a goal-tapper and that's it. There are all-round forwards who aren't at that exalted level who might still suit us better (again though, I stress I'm not in favour of the sale of Bent as I think he needs to be given the chance to adjust).

[Concrete John]

I don't think it's as simple as that, John. I would like a player who maybe scores a few less than Bent but contributes much more to the team, as that would result in more goals overall. It's not a case of Drogba/Rooney level or you just get a goal-tapper and that's it. There are all-round forwards who aren't at that exalted level who might still suit us better (again though, I stress I'm not in favour of the sale of Bent as I think he needs to be given the chance to adjust).

I'd say that's exactly the type of player we need to have playing alongside him.  When played as a striker Gabby is good for 10-15 a season, plus contributes more all round, so he may well be the answer.

[Monty]

I don't think it's as simple as that, John. I would like a player who maybe scores a few less than Bent but contributes much more to the team, as that would result in more goals overall. It's not a case of Drogba/Rooney level or you just get a goal-tapper and that's it. There are all-round forwards who aren't at that exalted level who might still suit us better (again though, I stress I'm not in favour of the sale of Bent as I think he needs to be given the chance to adjust).

I'd say that's exactly the type of player we need to have playing alongside him.  When played as a striker Gabby is good for 10-15 a season, plus contributes more all round, so he may well be the answer.

But if you put that player in alongside you're sacrificing a creative midfielder, which forces you to play even more narrowly than we did on the weekend. That is of course unless that player drifts wide, drops back or both, one of which Gabby can do. However, we'd still find it tough because we'd have a passenger in attack, ie the same situation as the weekend. Everyone needs to contribute, it's no good just to goal-hang and demand supply as the rest of the team toil to break through opposition massed ranks.

[Concrete John]

But if you put that player in alongside you're sacrificing a creative midfielder, which forces you to play even more narrowly than we did on the weekend. That is of course unless that player drifts wide, drops back or both, one of which Gabby can do. However, we'd still find it tough because we'd have a passenger in attack, ie the same situation as the weekend. Everyone needs to contribute, it's no good just to goal-hang and demand supply as the rest of the team toil to break through opposition massed ranks.

I think that's an unfair summary of Bent's contribution. 

For me it's a tactical problem for Lambert to overcome, with the guaranteed prize of having a player up top who WILL finish the moves off once he gets it right.  As I see it we play a narrow midfield and Bent and Gabby upfront.  The width comes from the FBs and Gabby pulling wide, so then it's a matter of that tight midfield 4 retaining the ball and getting it to players in dangerous areas. 

[Monty]

It's not an unfair assessment of his contribution on the weekend. I'm not saying that's the best he can do, but he needs to improve on that. He needs to contribute more or the spaces he thrives in just won't open up as we'll be so easy to defend against. If your whole tactic is about setting up one player, that'll be very predictable to stop.

[Rick_avfc]

It's not an unfair assessment of his contribution on the weekend. I'm not saying that's the best he can do, but he needs to improve on that. He needs to contribute more or the spaces he thrives in just won't open up as we'll be so easy to defend against. If your whole tactic is about setting up one player, that'll be very predictable to stop.

I don't the tactic is only to set up one player.  I just dont think the players are committing themselves further up the pitch to provide a 2nd option so it will always look like we are trying to set Bent up.  One of either Holman, Ireland or NZogbia needs to get their backsides into gear and support Bent when we are attacking to provide a different option. 

[Brian Taylor]

Get Keane back. A proper footballer who wants to win. No attitude, just go out and win!
Old?? he has years on him yet. Peter Broadbent was 35 when he came to the Villa. Andy Lochead similar. Old duffers who made Villa what it is. Great! Ron Wylie. Derek Dougan, all forgotten now..so s*d off. Keane back NOW!
...

Excellent rant, but Andy Lochhead was just short of 29 when he joined us. Interestingly enough that's virtually the same age as Peter Withe when he signed.

Lochhead had scored more top flight goals at a better goals/game ratio too.

Ron Wylie was 25 when he signed, Dougan 23.

Andy Lochhead's wiki entry ends with the line "Lochhead now looks after the sponsors on match days for Burnley as well as being a member of the Dave Clark Five fan club."

They were all bl**dy old when I was attending regularly. Age does funny things to your memory but they were all great in their day.
Anyway 30 is the new 25. and me, I'm going on 17 when it comes to the Villa!
Keane is a must imo! and he wants to play!

[Ian.]

I'm sure he will score many goals this season so I would keep him even if it means he will have some games and you wont even know he's on the pitch.
We do need goals from more of the other players though and hopefully this will happen this season. It's still only 1 game in so I'm not too worried yet, I do trust our boss to be learning himself about our players over the next few months and will be bright enough to change things accordingly.

[sonlyme]

One match in and we've lost our heads...

Should we sell DB?  Well - if you're not going to supply him why not?

Otherwise perhaps we would be better thinking about those twin definitions of 'strolling players'  Messers Ireland and N'Zog.  Aren't they meant to be our creative engine?  Beating men or playing in the killer pass?  As it is we get little back heels and flips from one - and bullocking runs rounded off by a toe poke from the other.  Hardly the stuff to set any centre forwards heart a'racing.

Or we could. of course. give the man paid to coach the team another week or two to see what he thinks.  But no ... no ... that way madness lies.

Andy Carroll?
Robbie Keane? ... well alright as long as he brings his missus...
A N Other?

It's quite plain to me that everyone on this thread is overlooking one glaring fact in our downfall.  The loss of our attacking mojo.  The departure of the man known to some as GOD - but to us loyal villans simply known as ......... Emile Bosco Harewood Heskey.   The glue that made our team tick... I mean shit.

Roll on Saturday.  UTV

[Dante Lavelli]

So the stats for the previous 2 seasons. I'm pretty sure I got this right. Might give a clue to whether we're better with him or without him.

10/11
before Bent PL22 W5 D7 L10 Goals 24 points 22
after   Bent PL16 W7 D5 L4  Goals 24 points 26

11/12
with Bent playing PL22 W6 D9 L7 goals 27 points 27
Bent injured        PL16 W1 D8 L7 goals 10 points 11

So the previous 2 seasons we've actually had a full season of 38 with him and also without him.

With him PL38 W13 D14 L11 Goals 51 Pts 53
Without  PL38 W6  D15 L17 Goals 34 Pts 33

That is quite a stark contrast isn't it.

If we can get the side right to create for him it is far and away the best solution, just brings into focus the issues with Ireland and NZogbia, which are hard to solve as they are not very saleable.

It is a big difference, but I’m not sure it proves anything as anyone who condones selling Bent is probably justifying it by saying we use the extra money to buy X, or Y and Z.  It’s impossible to prove how much the “without” statistics would improve with an extra 20m spent on the team, but I think it is fair to say that they would.

[Holte L2]

Sell our 20 goal a season striker. No chance. We need to concentrate on how to supply him. End of chat.

It's a discussion, not a chat. There should be no 'end' to this. FACT! (sic)

Apologies Legion. Was slightly wound up after a bad day at work.

I just don't understand why we're discussing selling our £18m pound striker.  He has a proven track record of scoring, given the service.

Because there are other strikers out there who might possibly be just as good at scoring, but who have a better all round game?

Can you name a striker within our reach with a goalscoring record comparable to Rooney and Drogba?