Racism in football - The Guardian

[Risso]

My question is does discrimination just stop at race?  I was born and raised in Birmingham, but have Welsh parents and the Welsh seem to be fair game when it comes to discrimination, especially at football matches.  I didn't go to the game down in Swansea last season, but was really disappointed to hear that some Welsh Villa fans had had their flag destroyed by other Villa fans.  I was looking forward to the home game as although I am Villa through and through, I viewed a Welsh team back in the top flight after a long period of time being a good thing for the game in Wales.  The terrible performance by Villa and the result were bad enough, but I couldn't believe the torrent and vitriolic nature of anti-Welsh abuse that I heard that day.  It was probably one of my worst experiences watching Villa and I was just thankful that my Dad hadn't come to the game with me.  I didn't complain to anyone, but get the feeling that it would have not been taken seriously anyway as some forms of discrimination seem to be acceptable.   

Racism is always a difficult area.  There are areas where it's clear that things are racist or aren't, but as shown in this thread there are also things that aren't so cut and dried.  For instance, if somebody pokes fun at say, an Australian colleague's accent, maybe saying "g'day" for instance, it'd be unlikely to be seen as offensive.  Would anybody do the same to a West Indian or Pakistani colleague though?

[LeeB]

My question is does discrimination just stop at race?  I was born and raised in Birmingham, but have Welsh parents and the Welsh seem to be fair game when it comes to discrimination, especially at football matches.  I didn't go to the game down in Swansea last season, but was really disappointed to hear that some Welsh Villa fans had had their flag destroyed by other Villa fans.  I was looking forward to the home game as although I am Villa through and through, I viewed a Welsh team back in the top flight after a long period of time being a good thing for the game in Wales.  The terrible performance by Villa and the result were bad enough, but I couldn't believe the torrent and vitriolic nature of anti-Welsh abuse that I heard that day.  It was probably one of my worst experiences watching Villa and I was just thankful that my Dad hadn't come to the game with me.  I didn't complain to anyone, but get the feeling that it would have not been taken seriously anyway as some forms of discrimination seem to be acceptable. 



 

I work for a Welsh company, our office is in Caldicot.

The Welsh are fucking sound in my book.

[willywombat]

My question is does discrimination just stop at race?  I was born and raised in Birmingham, but have Welsh parents and the Welsh seem to be fair game when it comes to discrimination, especially at football matches.  I didn't go to the game down in Swansea last season, but was really disappointed to hear that some Welsh Villa fans had had their flag destroyed by other Villa fans.  I was looking forward to the home game as although I am Villa through and through, I viewed a Welsh team back in the top flight after a long period of time being a good thing for the game in Wales.  The terrible performance by Villa and the result were bad enough, but I couldn't believe the torrent and vitriolic nature of anti-Welsh abuse that I heard that day.  It was probably one of my worst experiences watching Villa and I was just thankful that my Dad hadn't come to the game with me.  I didn't complain to anyone, but get the feeling that it would have not been taken seriously anyway as some forms of discrimination seem to be acceptable.   

Racism is always a difficult area.  There are areas where it's clear that things are racist or aren't, but as shown in this thread there are also things that aren't so cut and dried.  For instance, if somebody pokes fun at say, an Australian colleague's accent, maybe saying "g'day" for instance, it'd be unlikely to be seen as offensive.  Would anybody do the same to a West Indian or Pakistani colleague though?

Agreed. Someone posted earlier about the seemingly acceptable level of abuse handed out to the Welsh, ( they do give it back in all fairness ), the same rules clearly don't apply

[not3bad]

My question is does discrimination just stop at race?  I was born and raised in Birmingham, but have Welsh parents and the Welsh seem to be fair game when it comes to discrimination, especially at football matches.  I didn't go to the game down in Swansea last season, but was really disappointed to hear that some Welsh Villa fans had had their flag destroyed by other Villa fans.  I was looking forward to the home game as although I am Villa through and through, I viewed a Welsh team back in the top flight after a long period of time being a good thing for the game in Wales.  The terrible performance by Villa and the result were bad enough, but I couldn't believe the torrent and vitriolic nature of anti-Welsh abuse that I heard that day.  It was probably one of my worst experiences watching Villa and I was just thankful that my Dad hadn't come to the game with me.  I didn't complain to anyone, but get the feeling that it would have not been taken seriously anyway as some forms of discrimination seem to be acceptable.   

Racism is always a difficult area.  There are areas where it's clear that things are racist or aren't, but as shown in this thread there are also things that aren't so cut and dried.  For instance, if somebody pokes fun at say, an Australian colleague's accent, maybe saying "g'day" for instance, it'd be unlikely to be seen as offensive.  Would anybody do the same to a West Indian or Pakistani colleague though?

That reminds me of when a colleague at work, who comes from Nigeria, said "I'm going to negotiate", but with his accent it did genuinely sound like "I'm going to have a shit".

[E I Adio]

My question is does discrimination just stop at race?  I was born and raised in Birmingham, but have Welsh parents and the Welsh seem to be fair game when it comes to discrimination, especially at football matches.  I didn't go to the game down in Swansea last season, but was really disappointed to hear that some Welsh Villa fans had had their flag destroyed by other Villa fans.  I was looking forward to the home game as although I am Villa through and through, I viewed a Welsh team back in the top flight after a long period of time being a good thing for the game in Wales.  The terrible performance by Villa and the result were bad enough, but I couldn't believe the torrent and vitriolic nature of anti-Welsh abuse that I heard that day.  It was probably one of my worst experiences watching Villa and I was just thankful that my Dad hadn't come to the game with me.  I didn't complain to anyone, but get the feeling that it would have not been taken seriously anyway as some forms of discrimination seem to be acceptable.   

Racism is always a difficult area.  There are areas where it's clear that things are racist or aren't, but as shown in this thread there are also things that aren't so cut and dried.  For instance, if somebody pokes fun at say, an Australian colleague's accent, maybe saying "g'day" for instance, it'd be unlikely to be seen as offensive.  Would anybody do the same to a West Indian or Pakistani colleague though?

That's a good point. Many years ago on my first trip to Australia I was told by the MD of a company that if an Aussie hadn't called you a pommie bastard within half an hour of meeting you, it probably means he doesn't like you very much. As you suggest, substituting black for pommie would have a totally different meaning.

[Risso]

When I worked for PwC, there were people from from an exceedingly wide variety of countries.  They had to produce a handbook to establish what they thought were acceptable boundaries, because often it was people coming from overseas who were the most (often hilariously so) "un PC" (to use a horrible phrase).  A colleague from Hong Kong once mistook me for somebody else (though why he thought Brad Pitt was an accountant I don't know) and then said "sorry, you all look the same to me".  Which was a) probably true, and b) very funny but could have landed him in hot water.  The Manx also have an expression for people who have moved here who moan about anything, ie "if you don't like it there's a boat back in the morning".  That was said to a Jamaican lad once, which led to a worried look when the person realised what they had said.

[damon loves JT]

I could murder a choc ice

[Concrete John]

I could murder a choc ice

Does that qualify as a hate crime?

[Chris Smith]

Is racism in football more or less prevalent than in society as a whole? What I am getting it is can you tackle the issue at one level without addressing the bigger picture?

Since I started attending things have improved massively. Society as a whole is less racist and football reflects that but I think it's a pipe dram to imagine that it will ever disappear completely.

[itbrvilla]

'Is Football Racist?' was very poor IMO.  When asking the Asian kids why they hadn't been signed up they just said because they're racist. Why didn't ask them why they thought that and what they thought the reason was? 

As for black manager quotas, what a load of shit.  Its probably the media attention to the lack of black managers which is putting clubs off appointing any as if they do shit (like Ince) and they get the sack it reflects badly on the club.

I wish he thought out his arguemnets better  and used his questioning more effectively, to make a better arguement.

[tomd2103]

Is racism in football more or less prevalent than in society as a whole? What I am getting it is can you tackle the issue at one level without addressing the bigger picture?
Since I started attending things have improved massively. Society as a whole is less racist and football reflects that but I think it's a pipe dram to imagine that it will ever disappear completely.

Good question Chris.  It is not like people who use racist language at football games just pitch up to the ground and start using it.  If people are using that kind of language at football matches, then it is quite obvious that it is part of their mindset away from football as well.  It's like the sectarian problem with Rangers and Celtic.  Everyone says there is a sectarian problem at those clubs, but I would say that there is a sectarian problem in Scotland and that it manifests itself in those clubs.  Take Rangers and Celtic away and those feelings would still be there.   

[itbrvilla]

I remember the 2 different police responses to the 2 incidents I reported after the Arsenal away FA cup game where 1)some pissed up nutter was shouting the most vile racist and homophobic abuse in the seat in front of me (so i reported him to police) and 2) a pissed guy lighting a cigarette.

1 resulted in stewards escorting him out the ground and 2 resulted in the guy being wrestled to the ground by 5 odd police.  Doesn't make any sense.

[olaftab]

I could murder a choc ice

Does that qualify as a hate crime?

Not if he murders the dark and white stuff equally with same level of intent and applies violence in proportion.

[danlanza]

Good discussion, but why do we not all go to the next Villa game and all shout " Everybody is a Human Arsehole"
and just have done with it because it will never completely go away for fuck sake. Call somebody a Black.... Somebody a White....... Somebody a Ginger.......... Somebody a Blonde......... Bloody hell it goes on forever. For those of you who have never made a single racist comment of any sort in your entire lives then i salute you and at the same time call you a fucking Liar. It is part of bloody society ( a sad one but part of it) Those of you without sin cast the first stone. Might go a bit quiet then. We are all Human Beings and we are all the bloody same marvellous creations without colour or creed coming anywhere into it, but at some time we have all been " Human Arseholes ". End of in my view.

[Percy McCarthy]

You used to write speeches for Dr King didn't you?