Racism in football - The Guardian

[Risso]

How many English managers are there in the Premier League?  5 or 6?  Is that not unrepresentative in the same way that there aren't many black managers?

[Concrete John]

If you open it out to British, then there's quite a few!

[Hookeysmith]

I don't think this will remain the case. Viv Anderson was the first black player capped by England as recently as 1978 and at the time there were very few black players at the top level. I remember there being a big article in the paper when Big Ron named a Villa side which only had Bosnich as the only white player.Don't think that would even be noticed these days. With the number of top black players these days i honestly believe in 10 years there will be a larger proportion of black managers.

I disagree. The money in the game now is such that at the end of their careers nearly all players of today (black or white) will not have the motivation to want to become top managers with all the stresses and strains associated with the job.  Its not like they have to become failed pub landords anymore is it - so why take on a job with so much stress unless you are fully intending on being a top manager

Lets face it young managers are in shortfall as it is nowadays

[QBVILLA]

But if you go 10 years are there really any more black now then then?  And if not why aren't that generation reflected in today's managers?

Managers tend to be aged 40+ so yes i think there are going to be more black managers in 10yrs time.As i said before it was a big deal when Big Ron fielded a starting eleven that contained ten black players and that was less that twenty years ago. Also with the boom in players wages added to the extra media positions there are less of the top players striving to make their way as a manager. When the Prem kicked off 20yrs ago i think i'm correct in saying that all 22 clubs had a British manager? How many are there now? Football has changed massively as has society.With more and more black players playing then it follows that there'll be more retired black players of which a proportion will want to get into coaching/management. Black players have had managerial roles and will continue to do so. If they are successful then they'll remain in a job/move on to something better (Hughton) if not they'll be out of work (Barnes).No different to a white manager in my opinion.

[QBVILLA]

I don't think this will remain the case. Viv Anderson was the first black player capped by England as recently as 1978 and at the time there were very few black players at the top level. I remember there being a big article in the paper when Big Ron named a Villa side which only had Bosnich as the only white player.Don't think that would even be noticed these days. With the number of top black players these days i honestly believe in 10 years there will be a larger proportion of black managers.

I disagree. The money in the game now is such that at the end of their careers nearly all players of today (black or white) will not have the motivation to want to become top managers with all the stresses and strains associated with the job.  Its not like they have to become failed pub landords anymore is it - so why take on a job with so much stress unless you are fully intending on being a top manager

Lets face it young managers are in shortfall as it is nowadays

I agree with the point regarding players wages but logically if there are X amount more black players playing in the last twenty years then there'll be X amount more who will want to get into management.

[QBVILLA]

I've just looked it up. Viv Anderson was the 936th player to be capped by England. Since then there have been 67 further black players capped by England with Oxlade Chamberlain being the 1181st. Of those players there have been six who have been a football league manager (to my knowledge) Anderson,Barnes,Curle,Powell,Palmer and Ince. Proportionally i don't think that's too far off as there are still a lot of those 67 either still playing or only recently retired.

[Percy McCarthy]

The most black players I can recall us fielding was 8 at Everton.

[drisaac]

The most black players I can recall us fielding was 8 at Everton.

If you are referring to our match in October 1991, I make it 7.  Unless one of Sealey, Kubicki, Teale and Richardson was hiding something?  They are all about the same skin colour as Anton Ferdinand, so you never know...

[django]

I have always found the 'Bounty Bar' type insults pretty inclusively racist. I work with kids / young adults and spend a lot of trying to break down the idea that there are 'Black' ways of behaving, and 'White' ways of behaving. It doesn't do anyone any favours.

 

[Risso]

I have always found the 'Bounty Bar' type insults pretty inclusively racist. I work with kids / young adults and spend a lot of trying to break down the idea that there are 'Black' ways of behaving, and 'White' ways of behaving. It doesn't do anyone any favours.

 

I agree. I think it's extremely racist to be honest, in respect of both black and white people.

[Percy McCarthy]

So was Steve Marriott being racist when he sang 'My skin is white, but my soul is black'?

Am I racist because I prefer black women, or is that just a sexual preference, same as somebody going for blondes? It's as much for their characters as anything.

What about overwhelmingly liking black music over white, and not usually being impressed when white artists make 'black' music?

Or is their really no such thing as 'black music' and white music', like behaviour?

Does this mean that white kids who talk like they're 'from yard' and kiss their teeth not 'wiggers'?

[hilts_coolerking]

Am I racist because I prefer black women, or is that just a sexual preference, same as somebody going for blondes? It's as much for their characters as anything.

It's certainly not racist.  But the implication that black women all have the same character is perilously close to stereotyping.   

[barrysleftfoot]

  Thats the trouble nowadays Percy, everything can be construed as racist, a national characteristic to some people, is a national stereotype to another.

  Regarding football, to me it is the ultimate meritocracy.If a "black" Mourinhio existed, then every team would be after him, his colour would have no meaning.Look at Tigana a few years ago, quite a few top teams were looking at him, but he never succeeded so consequently he reached his zenith at Fulham.

  Barnes and Ince, like so many white predecessors, failed to improve on early promise.Most Prem teams would love to have the 1st British Asian Superstar, purely for commercial reasons.

[Percy McCarthy]

If I implied that black women all have the same character, it's incorrect and I didn't mean to. I was clumsily trying to avoid implying that they all look the same. Topically, a bloke at my wife's work was suspended the other week for a certain incident along those lines, but I won't go into detail as there is an ongoing investigation.

I think people are getting a bit worked up over a bit of prejudice as opposed to out-and-out racism. My missus' take on it is that she's not bothered if somebody doesn't 'like' her because she's black, as long as they're not educating her, interviewing her for a job or policing her etc.

I must say, it's nice to be discussing this kind of thing with people who are not racist.

[hilts_coolerking]

  Thats the trouble nowadays Percy, everything can be construed as racist, a national characteristic to some people, is a national stereotype to another.

The problem with stereotyping is that it presupposes everyone in a given group is that same.  And if that stereotype is a negative one, i.e. all black people are lazy, all Muslims are terrorists, all immigrants are scroungers, then it's just one very small step to prejudice.  Or policy, if you happen to be a Conservative cabinet minister.

There you see, I'm doing it myself now.