Paul Faulkner: Is He Delivering?

[PeterWithesShin]

I'm curious what the reaction would have been from those criticising Randy for not keeping MON reigned in if it had ever come out that he was interfering with who MON wanted to sign?
You can't really say to a manager "here's £30million to spend on players this summer and you have a budget of 250K a week in wages for them, but you can only sign players I want."

[Banganappa]

I'm curious what the reaction would have been from those criticising Randy for not keeping MON reigned in if it had ever come out that he was interfering with who MON wanted to sign?
You can't really say to a manager "here's £30million to spend on players this summer and you have a budget of 250K a week in wages for them, but you can only sign players I want."

No doubt they would have applauded him for prudent budgetary control? Oh all right, they would have called him an interfering, know nothing tosser, who if he can't back the manager should sell up and piss off back to the colonies.

[Risso]

I'm curious what the reaction would have been from those criticising Randy for not keeping MON reigned in if it had ever come out that he was interfering with who MON wanted to sign?
You can't really say to a manager "here's £30million to spend on players this summer and you have a budget of 250K a week in wages for them, but you can only sign players I want."

No doubt they would have applauded him for prudent budgetary control? Oh all right, they would have called him an interfering, know nothing tosser, who if he can't back the manager should sell up and piss off back to the colonies.

By your simplistic logic, Leeds fans should be applauding Ridsdale for spending lots of money.  You're missing the huge point that there clearly wasn't a budget.  It wasn't a case of agreeing with O'Neill a set amount of money and letting him choose the players and pay salaries within that budget.  What has clearly happened is that there were no such boundaries set.  You don't get into the financial mess Villa are in as a result of sensible planning.

[pauliewalnuts]

It is hard to believe there was any kind of financial planning if a spending regime was allowed to persist which was so shit or bust we spent almost two whole seasons dicing with relegation immediately after.

Their remit is the stewardship and growth of he club. Look at the books, then look at where we finished last season and where we finished the season before they came, and it is pretty hard to suggest we have been prudently managed.

I hope they continue to improve and this is a good start, but let's not pretend the last few years have been anything but a disaster.

[Risso]

And you're behaving like an accountant. How many times have I sat in a boardroom, agonised and argued about a decision with the financial director not saying a word. You make a decision and trust people to carry it out. Sometimes it doesn't work, and funnily enough it's the bean counter who tells you after the event that it would have been better if you'd done something differently. Trawling through the minutes there's no trace of them saying a word at the time.......

It doesn't sound like your finance director is much cop to be honest, and without an effective team of directors, especially where finances are concerned I can only imagine your company is not successful.  You don't work for Aston Villa Limited by any chance do you? 

[PeterWithesShin]

I'm curious what the reaction would have been from those criticising Randy for not keeping MON reigned in if it had ever come out that he was interfering with who MON wanted to sign?
You can't really say to a manager "here's £30million to spend on players this summer and you have a budget of 250K a week in wages for them, but you can only sign players I want."

No doubt they would have applauded him for prudent budgetary control? Oh all right, they would have called him an interfering, know nothing tosser, who if he can't back the manager should sell up and piss off back to the colonies.

By your simplistic logic, Leeds fans should be applauding Ridsdale for spending lots of money.  You're missing the huge point that there clearly wasn't a budget.  It wasn't a case of agreeing with O'Neill a set amount of money and letting him choose the players and pay salaries within that budget.  What has clearly happened is that there were no such boundaries set.  You don't get into the financial mess Villa are in as a result of sensible planning.

No i'm not missing the whole point. None of us know what the budget in those days was or what the long term projections were. Or indeed if any budgeting was going on.

Had we finished top 4 in MON's second or third season then the outlay may well have been justified and sustainable. Implied odds to use a poker term.

Or a simpler way for you to understand my initial post, a better manager than MON could have spent the money better which would probably have led to top 4 thus making the budget justified.
However, once RL decided how much he could spend he had to leave MON with carte blanche to spend that amount how he wanted as any interference would have seen him slated at the time when MON could do little or no wrong in fans eyes.

[Banganappa]

And you're behaving like an accountant. How many times have I sat in a boardroom, agonised and argued about a decision with the financial director not saying a word. You make a decision and trust people to carry it out. Sometimes it doesn't work, and funnily enough it's the bean counter who tells you after the event that it would have been better if you'd done something differently. Trawling through the minutes there's no trace of them saying a word at the time.......

It doesn't sound like your finance director is much cop to be honest, and without an effective team of directors, especially where finances are concerned I can only imagine your company is not successful.  You don't work for Aston Villa Limited by any chance do you? 

Arrogance of such breathtaking proportions, deserves to be left alone alone so I will.
PeterWithesShin sums it up quite nicely.

[Banganappa]

It is hard to believe there was any kind of financial planning if a spending regime was allowed to persist which was so shit or bust we spent almost two whole seasons dicing with relegation immediately after.

Their remit is the stewardship and growth of he club. Look at the books, then look at where we finished last season and where we finished the season before they came, and it is pretty hard to suggest we have been prudently managed.

I hope they continue to improve and this is a good start, but let's not pretend the last few years have been anything but a disaster.

I don't think you can seriously argue that someone who spent most of his career in investment banking and runs a number of businesses around the world probably did not carry out any financial planning. You might be frustrated at the results or not agree with them but to say they are unlikely to have been in place is a bit far fetched. Actually we don't know what the position was.

If the poor performance last season particularly was financially driven, don't you think then it was unfair to sack McLeish. Clearly we would not have challenged the top 8 but personally I think a half decent manager would have had us well clear of where we ended up with exactly the same resources.

[Risso]

And you're behaving like an accountant. How many times have I sat in a boardroom, agonised and argued about a decision with the financial director not saying a word. You make a decision and trust people to carry it out. Sometimes it doesn't work, and funnily enough it's the bean counter who tells you after the event that it would have been better if you'd done something differently. Trawling through the minutes there's no trace of them saying a word at the time.......

It doesn't sound like your finance director is much cop to be honest, and without an effective team of directors, especially where finances are concerned I can only imagine your company is not successful.  You don't work for Aston Villa Limited by any chance do you? 

Arrogance of such breathtaking proportions, deserves to be left alone alone so I will.
PeterWithesShin sums it up quite nicely.

Arrogant?  You were the one who brought up your company and your finance director who apparently doesn't play a part in decision making or board meetings.  I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that a company with an individual like that is going to have their work cut out.

[Banganappa]

And you're behaving like an accountant. How many times have I sat in a boardroom, agonised and argued about a decision with the financial director not saying a word. You make a decision and trust people to carry it out. Sometimes it doesn't work, and funnily enough it's the bean counter who tells you after the event that it would have been better if you'd done something differently. Trawling through the minutes there's no trace of them saying a word at the time.......

It doesn't sound like your finance director is much cop to be honest, and without an effective team of directors, especially where finances are concerned I can only imagine your company is not successful.  You don't work for Aston Villa Limited by any chance do you? 

Arrogance of such breathtaking proportions, deserves to be left alone alone so I will.
PeterWithesShin sums it up quite nicely.

Arrogant?  You were the one who brought up your company and your finance director who apparently doesn't play a part in decision making or board meetings.  I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that a company with an individual like that is going to have their work cut out.

I think you'll find if you review your posts, that it was you that decided I had no business experience, (an incorrect guess); then that my business is not successful (another incorrect guess and a pretty bold one considering you have no idea whether it's a FTSE 100 company or a corner shop); that the people I work with are not much cop and ineffective (yet another stab in the dark) all layered upon a whole stack of illogical assumptions as to how things are done at AVFC. You top it off with a pop at me. So yes, arrogant. Or as DW pointed out earlier, insulting if you like.

[Dave]

I'm curious what the reaction would have been from those criticising Randy for not keeping MON reigned in if it had ever come out that he was interfering with who MON wanted to sign?
You can't really say to a manager "here's £30million to spend on players this summer and you have a budget of 250K a week in wages for them, but you can only sign players I want."

Does anyone remember those first couple of summers when we were berating O'Neill for CHOOSING not to spend all the millions upon millions that Lerner was apparently making available?

[adrenachrome]

I'm curious what the reaction would have been from those criticising Randy for not keeping MON reigned in if it had ever come out that he was interfering with who MON wanted to sign?
You can't really say to a manager "here's £30million to spend on players this summer and you have a budget of 250K a week in wages for them, but you can only sign players I want."

Does anyone remember those first couple of summers when we were berating O'Neill for CHOOSING not to spend all the millions upon millions that Lerner was apparently making available?

Ah yes, I remember it well.

A prevaricating, twitching Woody Allen was the caricature of choice.

[hilts_coolerking]

Does anyone remember those first couple of summers when we were berating O'Neill for CHOOSING not to spend all the millions upon millions that Lerner was apparently making available?

I remember that being touted as 'doing things the right way', i.e. not forking out great sums on marquee signings.  Then again, when Houllier was brought in that was also touted as 'doing things the right way'.  And it's now being said of our current transfer policy, such as it is.

[Risso]

that the people I work with are not much cop and ineffective (yet another stab in the dark) all layered upon a whole stack of illogical assumptions as to how things are done at AVFC. You top it off with a pop at me. So yes, arrogant. Or as DW pointed out earlier, insulting if you like.

Sorry, when you said this "How many times have I sat in a boardroom, agonised and argued about a decision with the financial director not saying a word. You make a decision and trust people to carry it out. Sometimes it doesn't work, and funnily enough it's the bean counter who tells you after the event that it would have been better if you'd done something differently. Trawling through the minutes there's no trace of them saying a word at the time" that was you saying that your finance director is much cop and is highly effective?  And whether my assumptions about the goings on at Villa are illogical or not, the fact is that the last two years have been an absolute disaster, so tend to back up my views a bit more strongly than yours.  As for insulting you, are you really such a delicate little flower?  Your little dig about accountants and bean counters didn't bother me although it was clearly designed to be insulting.

[dave.woodhall]

It's a strange definition of disaster when a club can finish in the top half despite the many things that were out of our control in the Houllier season.