Pre-match drinking - all change next season

[pauliewalnuts]

Some things are way more important than having somewhere to drink prior to a match.

Isn't what you meant to say "somethings are way more important to me than having somewhere to drink prior to a game" even allowing for the fact that by your own admission you no longer go to pubs?

If it wasn't for these pubs I wouldn't know a fraction of the good people who frequent this site and with the season we've had and most of last the pub social experience has been the main enjoyment for most of our matches.

No, quite the opposite. I was talking entirely with regard to the local economy.

As you hinted at yourself, having recalled something I said on another thread recently, it doesn't really make any difference to me personally if there are pubs there or offices.

The pubs mentioned obviously provide lots of people with what they want prior to the matches, as their rammed-ness will show, but beyond that they're not really doing much for the local economy.

The fact you or whoever likes a pint there before the match is obviously something that makes you appreciate the pubs, and that's entirely understandably, but if there's a chance of using that land to locate companies who will provide jobs in an area with horrendous unemployment figures, it's hard to argue their case.

[PeterWithe]

Is this actually happening?, a quick google seems to suggest that the area is marked for redevelopment and any businesses therein could be subject to a CPO but none are yet.

Anyone got any more info?

[dave.woodhall]

The (original) Holte
The Reservoir
The Church
The Britannia
The Grovesnor
The Tavern

Now The Edward and Social and The Ads.

If the Villa keep doing this shit and attendances keep dropping then the Swan, Aston Hotel, the vine and the Yew Tree will probabaly all go the same way, and usually when they're gone, they're gone.

Sad Times indeed.

They managed to survive when we were getting lower crowds than now. The world's changed, Aston more than most, and that's the reason why these pubs have gone.

[Trinitymiddle]

The (original) Holte
The Reservoir
The Church
The Britannia
The Grovesnor
The Tavern

Now The Edward and Social and The Ads.

If the Villa keep doing this shit and attendances keep dropping then the Swan, Aston Hotel, the vine and the Yew Tree will probabaly all go the same way, and usually when they're gone, they're gone.

Sad Times indeed.

They managed to survive when we were getting lower crowds than now. The world's changed, Aston more than most, and that's the reason why these pubs have gone.

Since we last had low crowds, more pubs are closing as its harder to compete with supermarkets who are a lot more competitive than they were, even in the last 5-10 years. A huge Tesco's has opened up in Witton in the last year or so. Also the smoking ban came into effect relatively recently. That is why more than ever, these pubs are surviving on football trade as the majority of their turnover.

[dave.woodhall]

The (original) Holte
The Reservoir
The Church
The Britannia
The Grovesnor
The Tavern

Now The Edward and Social and The Ads.

If the Villa keep doing this shit and attendances keep dropping then the Swan, Aston Hotel, the vine and the Yew Tree will probabaly all go the same way, and usually when they're gone, they're gone.

Sad Times indeed.

They managed to survive when we were getting lower crowds than now. The world's changed, Aston more than most, and that's the reason why these pubs have gone.

Since we last had low crowds, more pubs are closing as its harder to compete with supermarkets who are a lot more competitive than they were, even in the last 5-10 years. A huge Tesco's has opened up in Witton in the last year or so. Also the smoking ban came into effect relatively recently. That is why more than ever, these pubs are surviving on football trade as the majority of their turnover.

I doubt very much if the difference between a 25,000 and 35,000 gate at a nearby football ground 20 times a year will affect the survival of any of them, and if it does then bigger fool their owners for relying on it. 

[hawkeye]

A lot of these pubs would not survive if it wasnt for matchdays, match day takings are likely to be worth several weeks of income.

[cheltenhamlion]

The Midland, opposite Cheltenham railway station, does 50% of its yearly takings when the races are on as an example.

[dcdavecollett]

Not Villa-related, I know, but the gaffer of my real-ale pub struggles in the recession(real, not technical?) and the £1,000-plus he makes per Chesterfield home game are what makes the pub's running feasible.

[myf]

There's merit in the KE. besides if the jobs are created, which is a longshot, why couldn't they become viable businesses with more employees and residents? The council has form with eastside in clearing land for redevelopment when there's no market for it

 Eastside has become a victim of the recession, several planned schemes were abandoned by developers, not sure if any are now back on the cards if the recovery steps up, and if the High Speed Rail link does get built then it will benefit as the Brum terminus will be around Curzon Street.
 The KE is the only one of the three that has any merit to be kept, and then only for the architecture rather than it's viability as a pub. Office workers aren't generally the type to drink enough at lunchtime to keep a pub open, maybe if it became a bit 'foodie' but then you'd all complain that it wasn't the pub you loved to have a few pints in pre-match!
 
 

I'm sure Eastside will come back on track soon but only really because it is proximate to HS2.  The fact is there is tonnes of vacant employment land throughout the West Mids due to a lack of demand.  If BCC/AWM want to spend public funds on bringinjg sites forward ready for the market recovery (if there is one) fair enough but I think its sad that it comes at the expense of these pubs.

The Social and Ads may be nothing to look at but that shouldn't be the sole reason for knocking them down.  They are important community facilities (admittedly not for the locals in this case) but certainly for us fans on match day, and potentially for future offices/industrial employees.

It concerns me that they could be demolished to make way for road improvements and infrastructure just to service parcels of land which won't be developed for employment use for another decade.

Yes, but nobody is saying the fact they're ugly is why they'd be knocked down.

What about the fact that Aston is one of (it not the) the most deprived areas in the city, and bringing businesses into this area would provide jobs for the local economy?

You say yourself that they're important facilities for people other than the local communities - why should the needs of people who roll up 20 odd times a year for a couple of hours even be on the same sheet as those who live there, 365 days a year?

Some things are way more important than having somewhere to drink prior to a match.

Of course jobs are more important than a pre match drink Paulie, and I'm all for economic growth.  The point I am making is where are these jobs going to come from?  Employment development in the West Mids over the past 5 yrs has been as rare as rocking horse shit and I can't see where the demand for this land is going to come from in the next 5 yrs, particularly with the land at Eastside, Aston Science Park, Pebble Mill and Longbridge.

If the pubs were lieing vacant then fair enough but they are all operating and I fear that they will be lost to make way for new roads to service sites which are likely to lie vacant for a number of years.

I also doubt very much that many jobs created here - offices / high tech / light industrial - will be taken by the local community.

[pauliewalnuts]

Of course jobs are more important than a pre match drink Paulie, and I'm all for economic growth.  The point I am making is where are these jobs going to come from?  Employment development in the West Mids over the past 5 yrs has been as rare as rocking horse shit and I can't see where the demand for this land is going to come from in the next 5 yrs, particularly with the land at Eastside, Aston Science Park, Pebble Mill and Longbridge.

If the pubs were lieing vacant then fair enough but they are all operating and I fear that they will be lost to make way for new roads to service sites which are likely to lie vacant for a number of years.

I also doubt very much that many jobs created here - offices / high tech / light industrial - will be taken by the local community.

Why wouldnt light industrial jobs be taken by the locals? Aston has been about light industry for decades. It won't be used for high tech or high grade office space.

In this economy, nobody is going to build an infrastructure for premises then to lie empty.

re the other places you mentioned - Pebble Mill is slated to be the new location for the Dental Hospital and Dental School, Eastside is never going to be light industrial and is already being developed by Bham City University plus will have HS2, Aston Science Park is constrained by size and already doing well (and again not light industrial), and Longbridge is already being developed as housing and hotels.

The jobs are never going to come to Aston if the infrastructure is not there, and nobody is going to plough cash into it without prior indications of tenants.

[pauliewalnuts]

The Midland, opposite Cheltenham railway station, does 50% of its yearly takings when the races are on as an example.

I bet it does, but that covers way, way more drinking time than Villa home matches do.

[myf]

Well its designated for b1 which includes offices, r&d and light industrial. all those sites are part of the A38 hightech corridor and apart from the science park have failed to attract these uses. remains to be seen if this is any different.

The council has ploughed cash into infrastructure at eastside only for that to lie derelict. i can see that happening here.

[Dave Cooper please]

The council has ploughed cash into infrastructure at eastside only for that to lie derelict. i can see that happening here.

As I said before, Eastside became a victim of the recession, mainly due to the type of development that was scheduled down there. It was going to be a leisure type development, remember that huge tower with the theme park on top of it that was mooted? Upmarket hotels and bars and high-tech office developments were all on the cards but all went on hold went the economy collapsed. I can see it slowly being built now, Hotel LeTour is nearly finished on the way down there from Town and I can see a slow creep towards Millenium Point as the economy picks up, especially if HS2 definitely gets the nod.

[MonsXI]

I know the Etihad/Eastlands was a purpose built ground but the have outside bars etc around the perimeter of the stadium, i know it's not the same as sitting the pub putting the Villa and world in general to rights but firstly it would give all the displaced drinkers somewhere to go and secondly add a new revenue stream for the club.

[woody4866]

I've looked into this.  its the aston regional investment site which will be developed as offices and industrial. sound like a science park. it will be a disgrace if the city council sir buying up and flattening pubs to build employment land which is likely to lie vacant with no demand

a bit like villa park then next season