Who is to blame?

[adrenachrome]

What jumps out there is how ridiculously well paid the Premiership is.  Hughes, MON and Moyes in the top ten!
One thing that might need to be factored in is that in Europe it is far more prevalent to have more layers of management on the football side whereas in the UK (as we have found out) it is more common to trust one man to run the whole shebang.

Certainly Munich has many layers and in spain the teams have B teams in the lower leagues so some of the UK manager's typical responsibilities must be completely delegated.

That is a very good point. The Bill Nicholson/Shankley/Clough/Revie/Ferguson syndrome: these chaps ran their clubs from top to bottom and did most of the deals and forged the ethos of their organizations.

As soon as anybody mentioned something as a outlandish as a DOF or similar, there would be a chorus of "it won't work over here".

[Dante Lavelli]

What jumps out there is how ridiculously well paid the Premiership is.  Hughes, MON and Moyes in the top ten!
One thing that might need to be factored in is that in Europe it is far more prevalent to have more layers of management on the football side whereas in the UK (as we have found out) it is more common to trust one man to run the whole shebang.

Certainly Munich has many layers and in spain the teams have B teams in the lower leagues so some of the UK manager's typical responsibilities must be completely delegated.

That is a very good point. The Bill Nicholson/Shankley/Clough/Revie/Ferguson syndrome: these chaps ran their clubs from top to bottom and did most of the deals and forged the ethos of their organizations.

As soon as anybody mentioned something as a outlandish as a DOF or similar, there would be a chorus of "it won't work over here".

Ditto with Barcelona the La Masia "farmhouse" seems to be very separate entity compared to what Guardiola does with the first team.

[Monty]

What jumps out there is how ridiculously well paid the Premiership is.  Hughes, MON and Moyes in the top ten!
One thing that might need to be factored in is that in Europe it is far more prevalent to have more layers of management on the football side whereas in the UK (as we have found out) it is more common to trust one man to run the whole shebang.

Certainly Munich has many layers and in spain the teams have B teams in the lower leagues so some of the UK manager's typical responsibilities must be completely delegated.

That is a very good point. The Bill Nicholson/Shankley/Clough/Revie/Ferguson syndrome: these chaps ran their clubs from top to bottom and did most of the deals and forged the ethos of their organizations.

As soon as anybody mentioned something as a outlandish as a DOF or similar, there would be a chorus of "it won't work over here".

Ditto with Barcelona the La Masia "farmhouse" seems to be very separate entity compared to what Guardiola does with the first team.

Except that, from the lowest to the highest level at that club, they train and play the same way - they do fitness training with the ball, exercises are almost exclusively one touch, the press high up the pitch and have a great degree of organised fluidity with it, while allowing for individuals to express themselves. The steps taken, between La Masia, Barca B and the first team, are very clearly defined and within the same structure and philosophy. I'd say that Barca have one of the most integrated club structures in football.

[Dante Lavelli]

Sorry you're absolutely right Monty with regard to barca's joined up thinking.  I was using it in reference to the amounts that managers were paid in the UK compared to abroad.  For example I read that the Masia cost 5m a year to run, of which some costs would be for mangers etc which to a degree are currently roles performed by the traditional British manager.

[Monty]

Sorry you're absolutely right Monty with regard to barca's joined up thinking.  I was using it in reference to the amounts that managers were paid in the UK compared to abroad.  For example I read that the Masia cost 5m a year to run, of which some costs would be for mangers etc which to a degree are currently roles performed by the traditional British manager.

Ah, well, that's very true. The thinking is joined up, but like I say, the structures are clearly defined - Guardiola's role as coach of Barca B was equivalent (though less senior) to his role as Barca head coach, as opposed to a manager who, in theory, manages all teams but delegates details to his coaches. Of course, at Villa there's this disconnect without there meaning to be, which is a kind of worst of both worlds.

[ozzjim]

McLeish. For all the bad decisions, McLeish had relatively decent money in the summer from sales and time to assess the squad, and has then blamed much of the last 2 months poor performances on it not being his squad etc. Lerner still has a little good will in the tank for me, but if there was a Faulkner McCleish option it would get my vote straight away.

[wookster]

McLeish. For all the bad decisions, McLeish had relatively decent money in the summer from sales and time to assess the squad, and has then blamed much of the last 2 months poor performances on it not being his squad etc. Lerner still has a little good will in the tank for me, but if there was a Faulkner McCleish option it would get my vote straight away.

Has he been able to assess the squad though, it looks like his remit from the start was to clear the club of the high rollers. This would be OK if he was allowed to replace them with younger hungrier players but all he did was purchase what appears to be a French prima donna and a promising player in Enda Stewart who carried on playing in Ireland.

He has been lucky in the fact that there was a pretty decent set of young players to step up to try to fill the senior team shortage.

[Greg N'Ash]

The thing is, McLeish can say "I want to play attractive football" and be telling the truth

It was possibly why the cynics amongst us were prepared to give him a chance. 'He could'nt possibly play drab football with the players we have' we thought at the time? Somehow he's managed it.

eh? While i agree i thought it was more than likely the football would be drab with Mcleish in charge, I certainly didn't look at the likes of Dunne, Heskey, Petrov Warnock etc.. and think "he's gonna have a hard time turning them into a dull side"

[Chris Jameson]

One of the coaches at Barcelona pointed out that each year clubs from all over the world visit La Masia and will copy bits and pieces in an attempt to emulate them but don't look at the whole picture. They've also got a 30 year head start on everybody.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Lerner still has a little good will in the tank for me

None at all for me.
He seems quite happy to piss the progress we've made over the last few seasons up the wall, add to that his complete lack of interest.

[VillaAlways]

Lerner still has a little good will in the tank for me

None at all for me.
He seems quite happy to piss the progress we've made over the last few seasons up the wall, add to that his complete lack of interest.

This for me.The transformation from a top 6 club to a bottom 6 club in 2 seasons ,can only be described as negligent Awful owner

[Risso]

The scale of the mismanagement is pretty woeful.  I don't think they know what to do next to be honest.

[Chris Jameson]

The scale of the mismanagement is pretty woeful.  I don't think they know what to do next to be honest.

They could phone Nicky Keye, she'll know.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

The scale of the mismanagement is pretty woeful.  I don't think they know what to do next to be honest.

Seemingly Doh'Neill ran the footballing side in a big way, he was left alone to do whatever he wanted, no wonder they floundered when he left.

Their incompetence is quite stunning.

I can't think of Lerner now without thinking about the dazed and confused Yank that Harry Enfield used to play.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

The scale of the mismanagement is pretty woeful.  I don't think they know what to do next to be honest.

They could phone Nicky Keye, she'll know.

I bet she's spaced out on Valium with all the shit she has to handle.