Who is to blame?

[Mr Diggles]

Good thread.

Unfortunately I think Lerner is the culpable man. Whilst there are a myriad of thigns that have gone wrong over the last 2/3 seasons (MON walk out, Houllier, Player power, Heskey, McLeish etc) Lerner is the common factor. If you don't know anything about the business, even the best intentions will go awry. I don't think there is any way out of this mess (which I think will get worse next season) until Lerner recognises this and gets a 'football' man in on the board to help him make better decisions. In the status quo, I fully expect relegation next year.

[N'ZMAV]

It has all been managed poorly for a long time. Since MON was let loose with the chequebook and wages budget, that's the start of it, and it hasn't recovered in any way, shape or form since...

[villanic]

It’s Lerner for me. He let O’Neill waste millions on some very average players and then made things worse by appointing McLeish to over see the restructuring.

[Concrete John]

As I see it, MON bought players to play in an MON side, which be it by man management or tactics, means he got more out of them than the next two managers.  That's not uncommon, where a new man comes in and needs to change things, but the financial position has meant that we've had to stick with them, despite poor performances and attitudes.

So despite thinking AM hasn't done well enough, that's why I give him some benefit of the doubt as we have yet to see what I would call HIS Villa side, but rather a patchwork of players left by two previous, and very different, managers. 

So, who is to blame?  I voted a bit of both in the poll, but if I had to stick blame somewhere specifically it weould have to be Randy.  When MON walked he needed to start with a clean slate and decide where he wanted to club to go and how we could get there, which would be a longterm approach.  That's not gonne happen with a manager like Houllier, given age and health issues.  A couple of years and then moving upstairs for someone like Martinez does make sense, but then he wasn't given this option and made a hash of going after Martinez.

Which left us with AM, who is going in a different direction again.

So that's where I think it went wrong.  A combination of Houllier's health and not being able to get the manager he wanted made him abandon the post-MON strategy and concentrate on staying afloat.   

[NeilH]

I was thinking a little bit about this, this morning. My gut reaction is to finger a substantial amount of the blame onto MON and the manner of his departure does leave a very unpleasant taste in my mouth still. However, I got to thinking about how I would feel were I MON in the same situation. He effectively joined the club on the basis of an expected investment from a billionaire owner. As soon as Randy showed up, the club was elevated to a higher plain and Randy’s decision to allow MON virtual free reign on transfer and playing matters was every potential employees dream. Things were going along swimmingly with us nearly making it each season.

Then suddenly Randy wakes up and realises that millions are being wasted and the club is going down the gurgler. He contacts MON and says ‘You know I said you could get anyone you wanted and pay anything you wanted, well it stops right now and you’ll also need to offload quickly all the sh** you bought and buy no-one else in between.’

Put yourself in MON’s position. You’ve had the perfect employment situation for years and then suddenly the chairman wants to change the strategy overnight. What would you do (bearing in mind that you’re an egotistical football manager who the media love)?

[VillaAlways]

Apparenly us being shit is all down to Jenas getting injured.This snippet should make Ireland and Bannan feel great

Alex McLeish feels Jermaine Jenas' absence has been a major reason for Aston Villa's troubles this season.

The midfielder was ruled out for the rest of the campaign after undergoing surgery on his left Achilles tendon in December.

Jenas is now back at parent club Tottenham and McLeish feels Villa just don't have the players in their squad to cover for his departure.

"We have probably lacked a guy who can take the ball in midfield and pass it this season," the Villa boss said following the 3-0 defeat at Arsenal.

"We've got more dynamic players and a young player in Chris Herd who's learning his trade.

"The loss of Jermaine Jenas at the start of the season was a big one.

"I recognised at the start of the season that we needed a player who could create from the centre so that has been a bit of a loss for us.

"We've still got a few more points then some teams below and we've got to try to get further up the table."

[Monty]

Apparenly us being shit is all down to Jenas getting injured.This snippet should make Ireland and Bannan feel great

Alex McLeish feels Jermaine Jenas' absence has been a major reason for Aston Villa's troubles this season.

The midfielder was ruled out for the rest of the campaign after undergoing surgery on his left Achilles tendon in December.

Jenas is now back at parent club Tottenham and McLeish feels Villa just don't have the players in their squad to cover for his departure.

"We have probably lacked a guy who can take the ball in midfield and pass it this season," the Villa boss said following the 3-0 defeat at Arsenal.

"We've got more dynamic players and a young player in Chris Herd who's learning his trade.

"The loss of Jermaine Jenas at the start of the season was a big one.

"I recognised at the start of the season that we needed a player who could create from the centre so that has been a bit of a loss for us.

"We've still got a few more points then some teams below and we've got to try to get further up the table."

Fuck a duck.

First of all, we're lacking a passing player, so he goes and gets rid of Makoun?

Second of all, his idea of a creative player is Jermaine Jenas, whom he lauded as "dynamic" when he signed him?

Thirdly, what are Bannan, Ireland and Gardner if not creative? If Jenas is creative, then Gardner's bloody Riquelme.

He's got to go. He just has to leave. I cannot believe how much money we paid for the privelige of being managed by this man.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

You bastard Jenas!

[PaulWinch again]

The man is so desperately out of his depth it is embarrassing. I repeat sending Makoun out was absolutely insane.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

The man is so desperately out of his depth it is embarrassing. I repeat sending Makoun out was absolutely insane.

Agree.

As i've said before, if we're so fucking hard up, why is he giving up on a £6m player so quickly?

Whatever happened to coaching?

Just having him on the bench would have been a better alternative to the likes of Heskey.

[PaulWinch again]

The man is so desperately out of his depth it is embarrassing. I repeat sending Makoun out was absolutely insane.

Agree.

As i've said before, if we're so fucking hard up, why is he giving up on a £6m player so quickly?

Whatever happened to coaching?

Just having him on the bench would have been a better alternative to the likes of Heskey.

Yeah and oddly he's a player who can pass, which according to big fucking Eck is what we are missing. It was and still is an appalling decision.

[Hookeysmith]

Apparenly us being shit is all down to Jenas getting injured.This snippet should make Ireland and Bannan feel great

Alex McLeish feels Jermaine Jenas' absence has been a major reason for Aston Villa's troubles this season.

The midfielder was ruled out for the rest of the campaign after undergoing surgery on his left Achilles tendon in December.

Jenas is now back at parent club Tottenham and McLeish feels Villa just don't have the players in their squad to cover for his departure.

"We have probably lacked a guy who can take the ball in midfield and pass it this season," the Villa boss said following the 3-0 defeat at Arsenal.

"We've got more dynamic players and a young player in Chris Herd who's learning his trade.

"The loss of Jermaine Jenas at the start of the season was a big one.

"I recognised at the start of the season that we needed a player who could create from the centre so that has been a bit of a loss for us.

"We've still got a few more points then some teams below and we've got to try to get further up the table."

Fuck a duck.

First of all, we're lacking a passing player, so he goes and gets rid of Makoun?

Second of all, his idea of a creative player is Jermaine Jenas, whom he lauded as "dynamic" when he signed him?

Thirdly, what are Bannan, Ireland and Gardner if not creative? If Jenas is creative, then Gardner's bloody Riquelme.

He's got to go. He just has to leave. I cannot believe how much money we paid for the privelige of being managed by this man.

Bang on brother

[NeilH]

Based on this comment, previous comments and his general demeanour, he is clearly a man that knows his job is safe as houses. He could frankly stroll out onto VP against Chelsea and plant a Bluenose flag on the centre circle and still he'd know that Faulkner and Lerner would continue to back him.
It is both depressing and worrying in equal measure.

[Merv]

Apparenly us being shit is all down to Jenas getting injured.This snippet should make Ireland and Bannan feel great

Alex McLeish feels Jermaine Jenas' absence has been a major reason for Aston Villa's troubles this season.

The midfielder was ruled out for the rest of the campaign after undergoing surgery on his left Achilles tendon in December.

Jenas is now back at parent club Tottenham and McLeish feels Villa just don't have the players in their squad to cover for his departure.

"We have probably lacked a guy who can take the ball in midfield and pass it this season," the Villa boss said following the 3-0 defeat at Arsenal.

"We've got more dynamic players and a young player in Chris Herd who's learning his trade.

"The loss of Jermaine Jenas at the start of the season was a big one.

"I recognised at the start of the season that we needed a player who could create from the centre so that has been a bit of a loss for us.

"We've still got a few more points then some teams below and we've got to try to get further up the table."

Fuck a duck.

First of all, we're lacking a passing player, so he goes and gets rid of Makoun?

Second of all, his idea of a creative player is Jermaine Jenas, whom he lauded as "dynamic" when he signed him?

Thirdly, what are Bannan, Ireland and Gardner if not creative? If Jenas is creative, then Gardner's bloody Riquelme.

He's got to go. He just has to leave. I cannot believe how much money we paid for the privelige of being managed by this man.

Hmm. Jenas may have made a difference, but barring about 80 minutes, the guy hasn't been available all season. To have him, a loan player, as central to your strategy, is pretty flawed. As you say, Monty, we've got some nice ball-playing midfielders in the squad, and AM shifted another out quickly. And Jenas, whatever he is, is not really a passing midfielder, more a box-to-box athletic type.

McLeish is a man clutching at straws, and has sounded like that since the turn of the year. Our form has dropped off, and he can't stop the slide.

To answer the original question, for me it's undoubtedly Lerner and the management who are to blame. Ultimately, they made a very poor choice in the summer and we're paying for it now. Can't really feel anything other than mild annoyance about McLeish - he's only doing exactly as I imagined. He's a bad manager performing badly. The people who arrogantly put him there should take the lion's share of the criticism.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Based on this comment, previous comments and his general demeanour, he is clearly a man that knows his job is safe as houses.

Bang on Neil.
With Lerner and Co., It's a bit like the O'Neill situation.
Do fuck all while Rome burns.