Summer Transfer Thread: Speculation, Lies, Absolute Cr*p and Bosman Rumours

[tomd2103]

Yes Danny Guthrie should not be considered, we need to look to Germany, France or Holland. There will definitely be someone better available.

I don't think we should be looking to bring in foreign players for the sake of it Paul.  We should be looking to bring in the best players we can for the budget we have.  It may well work out that those players turn out to be from abroad, but I don't think we should be adopting a policy of only looking at foreign players.  I for one think there are some good young players currently plying their trade in the Championship who could do a good job for us. 

[Monty]

Yes Danny Guthrie should not be considered, we need to look to Germany, France or Holland. There will definitely be someone better available.

I don't think we should be looking to bring in foreign players for the sake of it Paul.  We should be looking to bring in the best players we can for the budget we have.  It may well work out that those players turn out to be from abroad, but I don't think we should be adopting a policy of only looking at foreign players.  I for one think there are some good young players currently plying their trade in the Championship who could do a good job for us. 

Think about it though. There are God knows how many footballers in every country in the world. If you're looking for the best players available, what are the chances they'll all come from country you happen to be in? Also, a lot of English players are just that last phrase you use - jobbing. Unspectacular. Well drilled. Lacking in technique, skill, anything like that. It's a stereotype, but one with so much truth it's embarrassing.

[tomd2103]

Yes Danny Guthrie should not be considered, we need to look to Germany, France or Holland. There will definitely be someone better available.

I don't think we should be looking to bring in foreign players for the sake of it Paul.  We should be looking to bring in the best players we can for the budget we have.  It may well work out that those players turn out to be from abroad, but I don't think we should be adopting a policy of only looking at foreign players.  I for one think there are some good young players currently plying their trade in the Championship who could do a good job for us. 

Think about it though. There are God knows how many footballers in every country in the world. If you're looking for the best players available, what are the chances they'll all come from country you happen to be in? Also, a lot of English players are just that last phrase you use - jobbing. Unspectacular. Well drilled. Lacking in technique, skill, anything like that. It's a stereotype, but one with so much truth it's embarrassing.

No I totally agree Monty and I think it becomes more of an issue when you are working on a tight budget.  When you consider that Newcastle bought Tiote, Cabaye, Ben Arfur and Cisse all for approximately £10m less than they sold Carroll for, it just goes to show where the real bargains can be found. 

Regarding your thoughts on British players, I would agree that there are less quality home grown players around in the modern game.  You only have to look at the team England had out at the weekend to realise that.  I still wouldn't like us to go totally down the foreign route, as I still think there are a number of young British players out there who would be good signings for us.

[N'ZMAV]

Let's sign some Japanese superstar, think of the revenue there is to be made on that...

[Monty]

I agree Tom, but let's not forget that British players often cost more for less as well. That's what's led to our current financial position. It's not that the players are overvalued, just that domestic transfers here command extortionate fees - if we were to sign Cabaye now it would cost us a hell of a lot more than it would have cost Newcastle.

[tomd2103]

I agree Tom, but let's not forget that British players often cost more for less as well. That's what's led to our current financial position. It's not that the players are overvalued, just that domestic transfers here command extortionate fees - if we were to sign Cabaye now it would cost us a hell of a lot more than it would have cost Newcastle.

I agree that our dealings in foreign transfer markets is one area we definitely need to improve on if we are going to move forward.  I see it more as a role for a Director of Football figure than a manager though. 

[UK Redsox]

I agree Tom, but let's not forget that British players often cost more for less as well. That's what's led to our current financial position. It's not that the players are overvalued, just that domestic transfers here command extortionate fees - if we were to sign Cabaye now it would cost us a hell of a lot more than it would have cost Newcastle.

eg Jordan Rhodes being estimated as worth £8m. I suspect a similar player from an overseas league of equivalent standard would cost a lot less.

[tomd2103]

I agree Tom, but let's not forget that British players often cost more for less as well. That's what's led to our current financial position. It's not that the players are overvalued, just that domestic transfers here command extortionate fees - if we were to sign Cabaye now it would cost us a hell of a lot more than it would have cost Newcastle.

eg Jordan Rhodes being estimated as worth £8m. I suspect a similar player from an overseas league of equivalent stands would cost a lot less.

I read somewhere that Fulham were lining up a £3.5m bid for Rhodes.  I would agree that £8m is way too high.  I would say though that the Championship, League One and League Two are stronger than any other their equivalents in world football, so I would expect someone from a lower overseas league would cost less.

[James]

Fulham did offer £3.5m for Rhodes and it was rejected with the demand that they want £8m. I think Fulham are now going to offer £5m, and no doubt that will be rejected too. Silly season is upon us again!

[spaf]

I agree Tom, but let's not forget that British players often cost more for less as well. That's what's led to our current financial position. It's not that the players are overvalued, just that domestic transfers here command extortionate fees - if we were to sign Cabaye now it would cost us a hell of a lot more than it would have cost Newcastle.

eg Jordan Rhodes being estimated as worth £8m. I suspect a similar player from an overseas league of equivalent stands would cost a lot less.

I read somewhere that Fulham were lining up a £3.5m bid for Rhodes.  I would agree that £8m is way too high. I would say though that the Championship, League One and League Two are stronger than any other their equivalents in world football, so I would expect someone from a lower overseas league would cost less.

OFF TOPIC ALERT

I would love it if there was a tournament where the first non-promoted teams from Segunda, Ligue 2, Championship, Serie B, 2. Bundesliga, Eerste and National League (Russia) could settle this once and for all.

There's more money in the Championship, yes. But how much better is it really than the other leagues? This is an eternal question, I know, but how many of these newly promoted sides have you seen play this season? This isn't just a question for tomd, but others as well. Is it really any better and by how much?

Promoted sides:
Deportivo La Coruña,, Celta Vigo, Play-off winner
Bastia, Reims, Troyes
Reading, Southampton, West Ham
Pescara, Torino, Play-off winner
SpVgg Greuther Fürth, Fortuna Düsseldorf, Eintracht Frankfurt
Zwolle, Willem II
Mordovia Saransk, Alania Vladikavkaz, Play-off winner

My 3 second answer would clearly be the Championship. When I think about it, I really don't know why. Relative familiarity, maybe. It's certainly stronger, as you stated, in a sense of more combative, physical, bench pressing with larger weights (don't have a source for this) and having more knack inducing horror tackles (no source for that one either).


 

[seanthevillan]

I agree Tom, but let's not forget that British players often cost more for less as well. That's what's led to our current financial position. It's not that the players are overvalued, just that domestic transfers here command extortionate fees - if we were to sign Cabaye now it would cost us a hell of a lot more than it would have cost Newcastle.

eg Jordan Rhodes being estimated as worth £8m. I suspect a similar player from an overseas league of equivalent stands would cost a lot less.

I read somewhere that Fulham were lining up a £3.5m bid for Rhodes.  I would agree that £8m is way too high. I would say though that the Championship, League One and League Two are stronger than any other their equivalents in world football, so I would expect someone from a lower overseas league would cost less.

OFF TOPIC ALERT

I would love it if there was a tournament where the first non-promoted teams from Segunda, Ligue 2, Championship, Serie B, 2. Bundesliga, Eerste and National League (Russia) could settle this once and for all.

There's more money in the Championship, yes. But how much better is it really than the other leagues? This is an eternal question, I know, but how many of these newly promoted sides have you seen play this season? This isn't just a question for tomd, but others as well. Is it really any better and by how much?

Promoted sides:
Deportivo La Coruña,, Celta Vigo, Play-off winner
Bastia, Reims, Troyes
Reading, Southampton, West Ham
Pescara, Torino, Play-off winner
SpVgg Greuther Fürth, Fortuna Düsseldorf, Eintracht Frankfurt
Zwolle, Willem II
Mordovia Saransk, Alania Vladikavkaz, Play-off winner

My 3 second answer would clearly be the Championship. When I think about it, I really don't know why. Relative familiarity, maybe. It's certainly stronger, as you stated, in a sense of more combative, physical, bench pressing with larger weights (don't have a source for this) and having more knack inducing horror tackles (no source for that one either).


 

Greuther Fürth held Dortmund over 90 minutes in the cup this year, and only a last minute own goal stopped them from taking it to penalties - would Reading/Southampton do that to Man City?

Aren't Sampdoria in Serie B? How many of their players did they lose when they went down?

Interesting to compare the lower leagues - I think there are always bargains to be had if you have a decent scouting system - Chelsea picked up Robert Huth from Union Berlin for example, and they weren't even in the second division at the time (I don't think).

Also Man Utd are about to spunk the best part of 15 million on Kagawa - who cost Dortmund less than a million euros (off the top of my head it was 300,000). We should be looking to pick up players like this - there is no worth in the Championship anymore cause if a player is good 2/3 Premiership teams start sniffing around and the price rockets up.

[tomd2103]

I agree Tom, but let's not forget that British players often cost more for less as well. That's what's led to our current financial position. It's not that the players are overvalued, just that domestic transfers here command extortionate fees - if we were to sign Cabaye now it would cost us a hell of a lot more than it would have cost Newcastle.

eg Jordan Rhodes being estimated as worth £8m. I suspect a similar player from an overseas league of equivalent stands would cost a lot less.

I read somewhere that Fulham were lining up a £3.5m bid for Rhodes.  I would agree that £8m is way too high. I would say though that the Championship, League One and League Two are stronger than any other their equivalents in world football, so I would expect someone from a lower overseas league would cost less.

OFF TOPIC ALERT

There's more money in the Championship, yes. But how much better is it really than the other leagues? This is an eternal question, I know, but how many of these newly promoted sides have you seen play this season? This isn't just a question for tomd, but others as well. Is it really any better and by how much?

My 3 second answer would clearly be the Championship. When I think about it, I really don't know why. Relative familiarity, maybe. It's certainly stronger, as you stated, in a sense of more combative, physical, bench pressing with larger weights (don't have a source for this) and having more knack inducing horror tackles (no source for that one either).

On the overall level of all the teams in the league, I would say that the Championship is way ahead of any 2nd tier in European football (maybe even the world).  I know someone who plays at that level and go and watch him quite a bit, so I have seen a fair few Championship games.  From what I have seen, it is not the overly physical, horror tackle-fest that some people seem to think.  There are some decent footballing sides in that league and the stats show that it is one of the highest supported leagues in the world.   It will be especially strong next season with Charlton, Sheff Weds and Huddersfield, Wolves, Blackburn and Bolton going into it.     

[spaf]

OFF TOPIC ALERT

There's more money in the Championship, yes. But how much better is it really than the other leagues? This is an eternal question, I know, but how many of these newly promoted sides have you seen play this season? This isn't just a question for tomd, but others as well. Is it really any better and by how much?

My 3 second answer would clearly be the Championship. When I think about it, I really don't know why. Relative familiarity, maybe. It's certainly stronger, as you stated, in a sense of more combative, physical, bench pressing with larger weights (don't have a source for this) and having more knack inducing horror tackles (no source for that one either).

On the overall level of all the teams in the league, I would say that the Championship is way ahead of any 2nd tier in European football (maybe even the world).  I know someone who plays at that level and go and watch him quite a bit, so I have seen a fair few Championship games.  From what I have seen, it is not the overly physical, horror tackle-fest that some people seem to think.  There are some decent footballing sides in that league and the stats show that it is one of the highest supported leagues in the world.   It will be especially strong next season with Charlton, Sheff Weds and Huddersfield, Wolves, Blackburn and Bolton going into it.     

My horror tackle stuff was very tongue in cheek. I see your point of being aware of standard of play in the Championship, but you still didn't say much about other leagues. I'm not trying my luck at trolling, but genuinely curious about how you define the overall level of all the teams and compare that to the same of, say 2. Bundesliga.

Zweite, 17,266 / Championship, 18,824 the difference in attendances isn't that great. Championship no doubt has more overseas fans though.

[spaf]

Greuther Fürth held Dortmund over 90 minutes in the cup this year, and only a last minute own goal stopped them from taking it to penalties - would Reading/Southampton do that to Man City?

Aren't Sampdoria in Serie B? How many of their players did they lose when they went down?

Interesting to compare the lower leagues - I think there are always bargains to be had if you have a decent scouting system - Chelsea picked up Robert Huth from Union Berlin for example, and they weren't even in the second division at the time (I don't think).

Also Man Utd are about to spunk the best part of 15 million on Kagawa - who cost Dortmund less than a million euros (off the top of my head it was 300,000). We should be looking to pick up players like this - there is no worth in the Championship anymore cause if a player is good 2/3 Premiership teams start sniffing around and the price rockets up.

Checking Sampdoria's roster on wikipedia didn't say anything to me.

Completely agree with you on scouting the lower leagues of mainland Europe. And as Kagawa shows it would be smart, and don't think it's an unreasonable ask, to be aware of hottest prospects in cheaper markets like J-League, K-League, Finnish Veikkausliiga, Allsvenskan (Sweden), Tippeligaen (Norway) etc. Although the players from Sweden or Norway aren't all cheap, there are definitely bargains available.

Is part ownership possible for Premier League teams. If so, why not buy these cheap lottery tickets in collaboration with smaller teams from Belgium, the Netherlands etc. and let them mature elsewhere and get them ripe for a work permit, if necessary. For me this is the way if  the players in question are over academy age, 19+ or so.

[tomd2103]

OFF TOPIC ALERT

There's more money in the Championship, yes. But how much better is it really than the other leagues? This is an eternal question, I know, but how many of these newly promoted sides have you seen play this season? This isn't just a question for tomd, but others as well. Is it really any better and by how much?

My 3 second answer would clearly be the Championship. When I think about it, I really don't know why. Relative familiarity, maybe. It's certainly stronger, as you stated, in a sense of more combative, physical, bench pressing with larger weights (don't have a source for this) and having more knack inducing horror tackles (no source for that one either).

On the overall level of all the teams in the league, I would say that the Championship is way ahead of any 2nd tier in European football (maybe even the world).  I know someone who plays at that level and go and watch him quite a bit, so I have seen a fair few Championship games.  From what I have seen, it is not the overly physical, horror tackle-fest that some people seem to think.  There are some decent footballing sides in that league and the stats show that it is one of the highest supported leagues in the world.   It will be especially strong next season with Charlton, Sheff Weds and Huddersfield, Wolves, Blackburn and Bolton going into it.     

My horror tackle stuff was very tongue in cheek. I see your point of being aware of standard of play in the Championship, but you still didn't say much about other leagues. I'm not trying my luck at trolling, but genuinely curious about how you define the overall level of all the teams and compare that to the same of, say 2. Bundesliga.

Zweite, 17,266 / Championship, 18,824 the difference in attendances isn't that great. Championship no doubt has more overseas fans though.

I'll be honest, I'm not that aware of the standard of lower leagues in other countries, but I'm not sure that the clubs at the bottom of their 2nd tiers would be as strong as they are in the Championship.  As for League One, there have been some big clubs down there recently so there is usually a bit of a gap between the haves and have nots in that league.  Again there are some decent footballing sides in League One, but there are also some out and out physical outfits as well.  League Two is just a league on it's own and I don't think you would see the kind of football played in that league anywhere else in the world.  You occasionally get a decent footballing team, but on the whole it is blood and thunder and meaty challenges aplenty!!  In my opinion the Conference has also improved significantly over the past decade and you very rarely see teams coming up from that league going straight back down.