Record Losses....

[Mazrim]

I wouldn't be suprised if there were no performance related clauses in McLeish's contract. This is a board who after all, forgot to include an injury clause into the loan deal for Jermaine "please sir, I think that sudden gust of wind just hyperrotated my pelvis" Jenas and decided that Emile Heskey was worth a contract lasting the same as the Assyrian Empire and will ultimately cost us something like £20m.

[Concrete John]

Not necessarily, but we have no idea what is in there termination-wise. Nothing would surprise me.

Very true.

It may have been such a termination clause in MON's contract that tirggered such a big payout, on the grounds it was constructive dismissal.

[Mazrim]

This man recommended Heskey at £60k p/w for 5 years as good business amongst other similarly fantastic bargains, then left us on the eve of a season with all his own mess strewn across our lawn. Far from winning a court case against the club, he should be dragged through the streets of Birmingham, whipped with stinging nettles as he goes before being scourged and crucified on Hodge Hill.

[richardhubbard]

We appear to be seeping cash, I do not see anything else but more cuts, we appear on headlines eating 300k of cash a week, that not sustainable.

With trading losses of circa 40m you going to be seeping cash, I manage working capital of SME business for a job and losses equate to cash in medium term
Where do you get this from?  The figures released show bank borrowings have fallen by £8.3m which suggests cash has improved significantly.

Yes by Lerner putting further 25m in which equals 17m outflow

I'd imagine the £25m was spent on Bent's transfer fee.  Hardly an example of a club seeping cash at a rate of £300k per week.

As for your other point about Randy calling in the debt and putting us in administration - well a large proportion of his investment is in shares so he can't just call it in.  In any event, why would he?  It's not going to be the best way to get his money back.

[richardhubbard]

This man recommended Heskey at £60k p/w for 5 years as good business amongst other similarly fantastic bargains, then left us on the eve of a season with all his own mess strewn across our lawn. Far from winning a court case against the club, he should be dragged through the streets of Birmingham, whipped with stinging nettles as he goes before being scourged and crucified on Hodge Hill.

Are you for real? lets go of MON hatred, we had two shit managers since appointed by a CEO running up losses of 40m per season, fucks sake MON left 18 months ago move on. Your be blaming him for next.

When we are championship skint in 18 months, who fault will it be then .

Lerner and Faulkner appoint the managers, sign the contracts and balance the books, not some Irishman who fucked off 18 months ago.

Remember under the silent one it was champions league footy in 5 years not champonship in 6

[Ad@m]

We appear to be seeping cash, I do not see anything else but more cuts, we appear on headlines eating 300k of cash a week, that not sustainable.

Where do you get this from?  The figures released show bank borrowings have fallen by £8.3m which suggests cash has improved significantly.

Yes by Lerner putting further 25m in which equals 17m outflow

I'd imagine the £25m was spent on Bent's transfer fee.  Hardly an example of a club seeping cash at a rate of £300k per week.

As for your other point about Randy calling in the debt and putting us in administration - well a large proportion of his investment is in shares so he can't just call it in.  In any event, why would he?  It's not going to be the best way to get his money back.

With trading losses of circa 40m you going to be seeping cash, I manage working capital of SME business for a job and losses equate to cash in medium term

Absolute nonsense.  That's why companies present a cashflow statement in their annual accounts - if losses represented cash they would only have to present a profit and loss account.

How do you know those 'trading losses' aren't entirely a result of amortisation and depreciation - neither of which are cash items and both relate to historic expenditure so don't affect future cash generation.  Companies can make profits and go bust just like they can make losses and be fine.

[Walmley_Villa]

Oh for the days when Deadly signed every cheque that went out of the door....

[pauliewalnuts]

This man recommended Heskey at £60k p/w for 5 years as good business amongst other similarly fantastic bargains, then left us on the eve of a season with all his own mess strewn across our lawn. Far from winning a court case against the club, he should be dragged through the streets of Birmingham, whipped with stinging nettles as he goes before being scourged and crucified on Hodge Hill.

Are you for real? lets go of MON hatred, we had two shit managers since appointed by a CEO running up losses of 40m per season, fucks sake MON left 18 months ago move on. Your be blaming him for next.

When we are championship skint in 18 months, who fault will it be then .

Lerner and Faulkner appoint the managers, sign the contracts and balance the books, not some Irishman who fucked off 18 months ago.

Remember under the silent one it was champions league footy in 5 years not champonship in 6

So, the current wage bill is nothing to do with a manager who left 18 months ago?

Not quite sure how you work that one out, when players often have contracts up to five years long.

[richardhubbard]

We appear to be seeping cash, I do not see anything else but more cuts, we appear on headlines eating 300k of cash a week, that not sustainable.

Where do you get this from?  The figures released show bank borrowings have fallen by £8.3m which suggests cash has improved significantly.

Yes by Lerner putting further 25m in which equals 17m outflow

I'd imagine the £25m was spent on Bent's transfer fee.  Hardly an example of a club seeping cash at a rate of £300k per week.

As for your other point about Randy calling in the debt and putting us in administration - well a large proportion of his investment is in shares so he can't just call it in.  In any event, why would he?  It's not going to be the best way to get his money back.

With trading losses of circa 40m you going to be seeping cash, I manage working capital of SME business for a job and losses equate to cash in medium term

Absolute nonsense.  That's why companies present a cashflow statement in their annual accounts - if losses represented cash they would only have to present a profit and loss account.

How do you know those 'trading losses' aren't entirely a result of amortisation and depreciation - neither of which are cash items and both relate to historic expenditure so don't affect future cash generation.  Companies can make profits and go bust just like they can make losses and be fine.

Adam well do understanding working capital and impact losses have on this?

[richardhubbard]

This man recommended Heskey at £60k p/w for 5 years as good business amongst other similarly fantastic bargains, then left us on the eve of a season with all his own mess strewn across our lawn. Far from winning a court case against the club, he should be dragged through the streets of Birmingham, whipped with stinging nettles as he goes before being scourged and crucified on Hodge Hill.

Are you for real? lets go of MON hatred, we had two shit managers since appointed by a CEO running up losses of 40m per season, fucks sake MON left 18 months ago move on. Your be blaming him for next.

When we are championship skint in 18 months, who fault will it be then .

Lerner and Faulkner appoint the managers, sign the contracts and balance the books, not some Irishman who fucked off 18 months ago.

Remember under the silent one it was champions league footy in 5 years not champonship in 6

So, the current wage bill is nothing to do with a manager who left 18 months ago?

Not quite sure how you work that one out, when players often have contracts up to five years long.

Paulie MON is accountable but so is Faulker and Lerner, MON was not signing the cheques was he?

[ozzjim]

Thought it was significant, and worrying if you are a Sunderland fan, that Quinn left the club a couple of weeks back. Martin is compelling, and a man who knows about football on the board is not something that goes well with his methods of handling things. The biggest mistake our board made was not reigning in his very erratic methods in the transfer markets and the contracts handed out. When you look at the 53 million loss, you have to wonder what the hell we are paying to some of the players still here.

[pauliewalnuts]

Paulie MON is accountable but so is Faulker and Lerner, MON was not signing the cheques was he?

They're all partly accountable, but I thought you were absolving MON of blame.

MON's fault was overpaying for players (largely because he couldn't be fucked to look for value abroad like other managers do), then agreeing to stupidly lucrative contracts (Beye and Heskey at knocking on 32, for example) for them.

Lerner's problem was that he blindly did what MON asked of him for far too long, to the point at which we'd effectively spent ourselves into a very tricky situation financially.

We're now discovering that another of Lerner's problems is that, without a manager who is happy to run great swathes of the club, and forced to run it himself, he hasn't got a frigging clue.

[richardhubbard]

We appear to be seeping cash, I do not see anything else but more cuts, we appear on headlines eating 300k of cash a week, that not sustainable.

Where do you get this from?  The figures released show bank borrowings have fallen by £8.3m which suggests cash has improved significantly.

Yes by Lerner putting further 25m in which equals 17m outflow

I'd imagine the £25m was spent on Bent's transfer fee.  Hardly an example of a club seeping cash at a rate of £300k per week.

As for your other point about Randy calling in the debt and putting us in administration - well a large proportion of his investment is in shares so he can't just call it in.  In any event, why would he?  It's not going to be the best way to get his money back.

With trading losses of circa 40m you going to be seeping cash, I manage working capital of SME business for a job and losses equate to cash in medium term

Absolute nonsense.  That's why companies present a cashflow statement in their annual accounts - if losses represented cash they would only have to present a profit and loss account.

How do you know those 'trading losses' aren't entirely a result of amortisation and depreciation - neither of which are cash items and both relate to historic expenditure so don't affect future cash generation.  Companies can make profits and go bust just like they can make losses and be fine.

Adam a trading loss to take 48m of amorisation and depreciation, sorry that would mean a huge write down on value of business or its assets . I have not seen the accounts in detail but business has had 25 million cash injection, regardless of what for and secondly lost 48m some how. It is in trouble that why we are slashing costs and sitting 15th in the table

What do you do as a job? It is only my view, but having done this job for 15 years , I would assume losses in cash flow lead to a cash outflow, they always have done unless there is a cash injection from somewhere, there is a direct corrolation to cash and profit .

[pauliewalnuts]

Thought it was significant, and worrying if you are a Sunderland fan, that Quinn left the club a couple of weeks back. Martin is compelling, and a man who knows about football on the board is not something that goes well with his methods of handling things. The biggest mistake our board made was not reigning in his very erratic methods in the transfer markets and the contracts handed out. When you look at the 53 million loss, you have to wonder what the hell we are paying to some of the players still here.

MON doesn't share power with anyone, hence the short tenures of FitzGerald and Cunnah.

This was told to me by someone who I have worked with, and who was running said company when it sponsored us, and is also a close acquaintance of one of the men mentioned above.

[ktvillan]

This man recommended Heskey at £60k p/w for 5 years as good business amongst other similarly fantastic bargains, then left us on the eve of a season with all his own mess strewn across our lawn. Far from winning a court case against the club, he should be dragged through the streets of Birmingham, whipped with stinging nettles as he goes before being scourged and crucified on Hodge Hill.

Are you for real? lets go of MON hatred, we had two shit managers since appointed by a CEO running up losses of 40m per season, fucks sake MON left 18 months ago move on. Your be blaming him for next.

When we are championship skint in 18 months, who fault will it be then .

Lerner and Faulkner appoint the managers, sign the contracts and balance the books, not some Irishman who fucked off 18 months ago.

Remember under the silent one it was champions league footy in 5 years not champonship in 6

Sorry Richard, you're missing the point there.  The current financial problems are at least in (large) part a legacy of the awful contracts MON set up for the likes of Beye, Heskey, Sidwell etc.  He may have left 18 months ago but it's that legacy that is dragging us down now.  Not entirely his fault, for someone who runs and owns a bank, Randy has displayed some remarkable laxity in managing the club's finances.  As for Faulkner while he seems useless as a football man, the deals with Genting and Macron would seem to indicate he's not as bad at the commerical side as some would make out.