Relegation Possibility

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Agreed.  And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday.  Some may want to spend time with the kids/family.  Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.

I'll be there Pauline, but as is now my custom, I'll Anesthetize myself before hand with copious amounts of Guinness.

Hmmmmm. That sounds like a plan although I don't tend to drink before games.  I shall certainly make up for it afterwards.

I NEVER used to drink pre-match, now I have to, in the absence of a crack pipe.

Absinthe works well, I find.

Did you mean absence?

[brian green]

And absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.

[KevinGage]

Indeed. 

But pints rather than shots. 

[Hoppo]

lets start again im not brilliant with words!! i meant we need every fan possible in the ground wasnt a dig at people who cant make it. we just need all the anti McLeish and Lerner stuff put on hold. im sorry but some people find an excuse to get offended in anything..

[pauliewalnuts]

lets start again im not brilliant with words!! i meant we need every fan possible in the ground wasnt a dig at people who cant make it. we just need all the anti McLeish and Lerner stuff put on hold. im sorry but some people find an excuse to get offended in anything..

What I don't understand - in general, not particularly in relation to what you said - is that I hear talk of much anti McLeish invective at the games, but as far as I can tell, he's had a relatively easy ride of it.

You'd think, to read some sites / papers, there was a cauldron of hatred against the bloke.

[pauliewalnuts]

As I said in another post The reason why it's so difficult to galvanise support is because as we know if we escape relegation this season What then? Nothing will change Mcleish will still be in a job,we'll still be shit and most likely be relegated next season The board are fully responsible for this horrendous situation and apathy from the fans

I think the thrust of what you say here is correct.

The worst thing about events of the last year or two is that we'd been told for three years prior to that that we were about ambition, we had plans, we were going places.

Then - curiously, exactly when the club's previously ubiquitous link with the fans decides to disappear from the face of the earth - they abruptly stop telling us that, and switch to saying nothing other than if it's about the need to live within our means.

This season has been shite - shiter than last season - but that's easier to put up with if you can have optimism that things will be better next season. Unfortunately, with the certaintly that we'll be lumbered with this joker of a manager for a fair while yet, it's very difficult to be optimistic about anything.

You really don't need to be wearing a deerstalker hat and tugging on a pipe to work out the cause of our current malaise - the owner lost interest, it really is as simple as that.

They can't even be arsed to feed us meaningless marketing slogans any more.

[Toronto Villa]

Not trying to make excuses here, but even the best planning in the world would be undone by Barry betrying the club with his flaunting to Liverpool, then leaving, MON walking out when he did, Milner leaving, Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order, the club putting their chips on Houllier then the bloke falls ill and a fight at a hotel mixed in for good measure. The hiring of McLeish was a stunner to everyone, and there is no explanation for that but the events that preceded it are bizarre.

[adrenachrome]

We need players back for sure.

Only two out for the season AFAIK is Darren Bent and Petrov.

We need N'zogbia, Clark (who was supposed to only be out for a month), Dunne and Delph all back for the Sunderland game which will be the crucial week as we have Bolton and then West Brom after that.

If they're all back, we'll get the points required.

Physio Room  has Delph's return date as 22nd May.

[pauliewalnuts]

Not trying to make excuses here, but even the best planning in the world would be undone by Barry betrying the club with his flaunting to Liverpool, then leaving, MON walking out when he did, Milner leaving, Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order, the club putting their chips on Houllier then the bloke falls ill and a fight at a hotel mixed in for good measure. The hiring of McLeish was a stunner to everyone, and there is no explanation for that but the events that preceded it are bizarre.

Have to say, I don't really see the relevance of any of those things, Toronto.

The problem isn't that we were undone by unforeseen events - players leave clubs all the time. In fact, we did quite well in some senses. We got a whole year's notice out of Barry before he left (and MON to his credit played that one superbly).

The major, major mistake was that when Houllier left, the club had the chance to make an appointment that would effectively treat that season as a "blip", but build on the positives we had from that year (and there weren't many, to be honest).

What they actually did is the worst thing they possibly could have. I keep saying this, but if a malevolent force had visited us from another planet with the mission of doing the most damage to the club they possibly could, how would they have done any better a job of it than Lerner did?

[KevinGage]

Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order...

Not one to give Stewpot credit if at all possible, but he didn't go the Barry route of a desperate NOTW article and bigging up an opposition manager.   You, I and the rest of the world probably knew he wanted out.  But there is the little matter of the players registration.   We held it, and if we wanted to play hardball (like we did with Barry) we could have.

In isolation, the sales of Barry, Milner Ash and Downing all made sense.  But taken as a whole, it's demonstrated to the world that we sell our best players.  The money for Downing was decent -particularly in view of his recent form for the Redscouse.

But I am still of the opinion that it should have been our line in the sand moment. The Modric situation at Tottingham illustrates that just because a player wants out, his current club don't have to play ball. Rather than being a bit part player for the Redscouse, he would have been a key player for us, and very likely certain of a place in the England set up for Euro 2012.  The latter means it's highly unlikely we'd have seen any behaviour or performances tantamount to strike action, for not getting his way. It would have been in his interest to give his best this season, if for no other reason than to attract an even better calibre of club than the dippers.

[Toronto Villa]

The relevance is that we were building something under MON. Yes, the Barry thing was something that happens, but clubs don't generally get stripped in three consecutive years of their 4 very best players plus the manager. It's hard to account for that. I thought we were going somewhere under GH and yet again the wheels fell off. Maybe we shoudld have known better than to hire a bloke with a bad ticker. I don't know.

I think we all agree on the McLeish thing. They had a chance to build on a good finish to the season, and we fucked it up. Maybe had we got Moyes it would all be different but we didn't. Hiring McLeish has been nothing short of a disaster and even the most patient of us have just about given up.

[pauliewalnuts]

The relevance is that we were building something under MON. Yes, the Barry thing was something that happens, but clubs don't generally get stripped in three consecutive years of their 4 very best players plus the manager. It's hard to account for that.

It isn't about selling your best players - look at the players Arsenal have moved on - it is about what you do with the money you get for them, and in Lerner's case, it's not looking too impressive really.

If we were in a situation where we really, really needed to pocket some of the cash, as we did, then you have to look at the wisdom of some of the signings and wages he condoned which created that situation.

[Shrek]

Not trying to make excuses here, but even the best planning in the world would be undone by Barry betrying the club with his flaunting to Liverpool, then leaving, MON walking out when he did, Milner leaving, Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order, the club putting their chips on Houllier then the bloke falls ill and a fight at a hotel mixed in for good measure. The hiring of McLeish was a stunner to everyone, and there is no explanation for that but the events that preceded it are bizarre.

We are in the shit because we have bought very badly.

Alex Mcleish last summer spent what Newcastle spent on Cabeye, Cisse, Ba on Hutton and N'Zogbia, then to top it off sent Makoun out on loan. Yes we all though N'Zogbia was good, but we all knew his temperament and so did Mcleish.

We have a shit manager and have a very very strong possibility of going down.

[Legion]

No, Wolves have a very strong possibility of going down. We have an outside chance.

[Risso]

The relevance is that we were building something under MON. Yes, the Barry thing was something that happens, but clubs don't generally get stripped in three consecutive years of their 4 very best players plus the manager. It's hard to account for that. I thought we were going somewhere under GH and yet again the wheels fell off. Maybe we should have known better than to hire a bloke with a bad ticker. I don't know.

We weren't really building anything under O'Neill though.  It should be clear by now that it was as unsustainable as the Western economies' debt crisis.  He paid £20m(ish) for Cuellar and Davies, then decided 12 months later that neither were good enough, so went out and replaced them with Dunne and Collins.  Just one example of his sheer profligacy, the results of which are still being felt whenever you look at the club accounts.  The reason we've had to sell our best players is to desperately try to rebalance the books.  It's why we're bolloxed for the foreseeable future.