AVFC statement - McLeish sacked.

[NeilH]

Let’s be crystal clear about this. Firstly, no matter what Hughton’s track record is, there is no way on earth that we are going to look across the city and poach that lots manager once more. Our board might not be the sharpest tools in the box, but even they would not be so profoundly stupid as to once more play with fire.
As regards the immediate issue, I continue to be surprised at the amount of people that believe that firstly McLeish is going and that secondly any resultant drop off in attendance numbers will be a wake-up call for the board.

Dealing with the first point, the fact that McLeish has acquired Holman, the fact that he’s been scouting out here and the fact that at every interview he exhibits all the traits of a man who know his job is as secure as a WWII German bunker, should light up a giant neon sign saying ‘Villa manager next season.’
As regards the predicted calamitous drop off in attendance numbers. I have little doubt that significant number of fans will choose to not renew next season and we will play out a number of games to gates of sub-25K, but it’s not as if it’s a new phenomenon at Villa Park and I am convinced that the board have prepared well for this and enough fans will support; as demonstrated in another thread.
What worries me though is the growing gulf between our board and fans. If, as I predict, we go into next season and nothing has altered, the relations between the board and the fans will simply further erode. I, like many others, simply do not have the confidence in the board to make the right decisions anymore and I fear that the poor decisions of the past are now preventing any proactive decisions for the future, other than the need to simply survive.

Of course things could be a hell of a lot worse and given our recent losses, it highlights that we are certainly not in a healthy situation right now. However, I do genuinely believe that many fans would have understood the necessary cost-cutting had the board not appointed McLeish. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I personally feel that I would have accepted the bitter pills a lot more had we chosen a manager with a record for trying to play the game properly, as opposed to a merchant of negative football.

[Hookeysmith]

We could have gone down last season under Houllier had it not been for the points Kevin Mac got before he arrived and for those Gary Mac got at the end of the season.

Things are not great now, but I'm not buying into the "we would be up there with Newcastle if Houllier were still here!" type theory.

The only one that believe that theory are those that are still pissed off with MON leaving the club. Houllier apparently had us playing proper football, believed in the academy, proper transfer policies etc. I remember a bumbling bufoon completely unsuited to getting the best out of the players at his disposal and treating the club as a retirement home. But hey different people, different opinions.

Alex McLeish is a dire manager, I dont think anyone will say any different there.

But at the weekend, our bench said it all, we have a seriously average squad these days. No one on the bench has proved anything at adult football. On the pitch we had enough passengers too. Only James Collins and Stephen Ireland to a lesser degree could claim to have held their own. Shay Given was dire in goal, not just the one he threw in but standing cowardly on his line repeatedly from corners. Hutton was no worse or better than usual. Same for Warnock but they are just poor players. Warnock is hopeless on the ball. Cuellar was shocking for their second goal. I think he is worse than Collins and Dunne with the ball at his feet which is saying something. The 4 in midfield were beyond woeful. Herd was totally outclassed. Petrov didnt try and leg and moved like he was in treacle. Gabby was anonymous. Albrighton is nowhere near good enough Im afraid for a decent EPL side. Ivanhoe was comical is a tragic way. Weimann at least showed a bit of energy and heart. Heart was an attribute that most of our players didnt have at the weekend. Ireland hasnt gone much of it either but at least looked like a footballer at times unlike so many unfortunately in a white shirt.

Whoever our manager is next season is going to have to try and completely transform the squad. If we are to play possession football then we cant get away with 2 centre halves who dont want the ball. Cuellar seems to have the better attitude than the other 2 but is probably off. Dunne, though I do rate him as a defender, at his age and wage is probably a god candidate to shift aswell. Warnock has to go. Blackburn if they stay up might hopefully take him back. Hutton is a birdbrain but I guess we are stuck with him. Petrov is finished. Has had a decent season but we need someone better than him. We badly need a player to come in and play wide. I think Ireland and Nzogbia would be good wide but likely that the prat from Cobh would spit the dummy out at that. If he goes as seems likely then we need to sign a proper wide replacement for him. Makoun never got much of a chance but almost certainly will go too. Heskey is definitely off. A number of our former academy players arent good enough to be regulars either. At 21/22 if they arent good enough to be regulars in a team as average as ours, then it is time to consider offers. The likes of Bannan and Albrighton might be best served heading down the Peter Whittingham route. Id love to keep them on as backup but I just dont see it with the pair of them unfortunately. Delfouneso is in the same boat. Delph is almost out of chances too.

Brett Holman is a start, he will give his all for one and be a good professional. But Id only see him replacing Albrighton as backup to Ireland/Nzogbia or whoever our regular widemen will be.

The side needs leadership which is why McLeish will try and get Keane back Id say. We need a raft of new arrivals to replace those gone and those likely to go. We also need a manager to make them into a team too. Alex McLeish certainly isnt that man. Id actually go for Chris Hughton. The likes of Lambert and Rodgers will be aiming for higher than us now. Considering the mess, Hughton inherited at Newcastle and Birmingham, I think he is ideal for us frankly. Has worked with joke boards and got results. He can keep the scouts, backup staff (aside from Peter Grant) and we can be a club again.

Agree with this synopsis entirely - apart from Hughton (who i think is great) but my choice would be Brenden Rogers - hard fecker who looks not only like he would sort our big time charlies out but plays the game the right way
Another ex Blues  would just send half our support into meltdown

[jonc73]

No matter what anyone does the same manager will be I charge next year. It's going to happen.

[paul_e]

We could have gone down last season under Houllier had it not been for the points Kevin Mac got before he arrived and for those Gary Mac got at the end of the season.

Things are not great now, but I'm not buying into the "we would be up there with Newcastle if Houllier were still here!" type theory. 

Well yes, if we only had points from 27 games we probably would've gone down but it's impossible to know if we'd have done better or worse in the other 11 if he was there or not.

The only one that believe that theory are those that are still pissed off with MON leaving the club. Houllier apparently had us playing proper football, believed in the academy, proper transfer policies etc. I remember a bumbling bufoon completely unsuited to getting the best out of the players at his disposal and treating the club as a retirement home. But hey different people, different opinions.

I'm afraid that's complete crap.  I'm not pissed off with mon leaving anymore, I still blame him for a number of the squad issues we have but who doesn't blame him for leaving us with heskey on 60k a week.

I personally believe Houllier tried to make the squad fitter and better prepared for a pressing high up the pitch approach.  I think some of the players (mainly the younger ones) took very well to this and we started to see some good performances.  Other players showed quite clearly that they're stuck in the past where an hour of five aside followed by a pint and a fag was a decent run out.  Those players who couldn't reach the fitness levels he wanted and/or who disagreed with him over it were marked to be sold.

The whole thing can be summed up pretty easily:

Houllier's solution to the right back issue = Kyle Walker
McLeish's solution to the right back issue = Alan Hutton

Which would you prefer?

I also think McLeish has been given a lot more of a chance by the fans than Houllier was, Houllier made a couple of bad judgement errors in quotes/actions at liverpool and half the fans wanted him gone after he'd been in for about 10games.  He then had a really good January and people started to get onside until the man city thing, after which the fans turned again.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Let’s be crystal clear about this. Firstly, no matter what Hughton’s track record is, there is no way on earth that we are going to look across the city and poach that lots manager once more. Our board might not be the sharpest tools in the box, but even they would not be so profoundly stupid as to once more play with fire.
As regards the immediate issue, I continue to be surprised at the amount of people that believe that firstly McLeish is going and that secondly any resultant drop off in attendance numbers will be a wake-up call for the board.

Dealing with the first point, the fact that McLeish has acquired Holman, the fact that he’s been scouting out here and the fact that at every interview he exhibits all the traits of a man who know his job is as secure as a WWII German bunker, should light up a giant neon sign saying ‘Villa manager next season.’
As regards the predicted calamitous drop off in attendance numbers. I have little doubt that significant number of fans will choose to not renew next season and we will play out a number of games to gates of sub-25K, but it’s not as if it’s a new phenomenon at Villa Park and I am convinced that the board have prepared well for this and enough fans will support; as demonstrated in another thread.
What worries me though is the growing gulf between our board and fans. If, as I predict, we go into next season and nothing has altered, the relations between the board and the fans will simply further erode. I, like many others, simply do not have the confidence in the board to make the right decisions anymore and I fear that the poor decisions of the past are now preventing any proactive decisions for the future, other than the need to simply survive.

Of course things could be a hell of a lot worse and given our recent losses, it highlights that we are certainly not in a healthy situation right now. However, I do genuinely believe that many fans would have understood the necessary cost-cutting had the board not appointed McLeish. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I personally feel that I would have accepted the bitter pills a lot more had we chosen a manager with a record for trying to play the game properly, as opposed to a merchant of negative football.

Summed up perfectly Neil.
Superb post.

[villasjf]

So according to paper talk on OS He says things could get worse before they get better, bloody hell.

[PaulWinch again]

So according to paper talk on OS He says things could get worse before they get better, bloody hell.

He's got that half right, they will get worse. However they won't get better until he's gone.

[CJ]

So according to paper talk on OS He says things could get worse before they get better, bloody hell.

That makes sense. They'll get worse while he's here and better when he's gone

[brontebilly]

I blame MON for having any interest in Heskey. Terrible signing and exactly the wrong type of player we needed at the time. However the board signed off on his outrageous wages. That is where I would place the blame for Heskey's Dick Turpin act at Villa Park over the last few seasons. Beye also.

Houllier may have been a better judge of a right back. But Jean 11 Makoun at 7m for 7 games was another few million blown.

We could have gone down last season under Houllier had it not been for the points Kevin Mac got before he arrived and for those Gary Mac got at the end of the season.

Things are not great now, but I'm not buying into the "we would be up there with Newcastle if Houllier were still here!" type theory. 

Well yes, if we only had points from 27 games we probably would've gone down but it's impossible to know if we'd have done better or worse in the other 11 if he was there or not.

The only one that believe that theory are those that are still pissed off with MON leaving the club. Houllier apparently had us playing proper football, believed in the academy, proper transfer policies etc. I remember a bumbling bufoon completely unsuited to getting the best out of the players at his disposal and treating the club as a retirement home. But hey different people, different opinions.

I'm afraid that's complete crap.  I'm not pissed off with mon leaving anymore, I still blame him for a number of the squad issues we have but who doesn't blame him for leaving us with heskey on 60k a week.

I personally believe Houllier tried to make the squad fitter and better prepared for a pressing high up the pitch approach.  I think some of the players (mainly the younger ones) took very well to this and we started to see some good performances.  Other players showed quite clearly that they're stuck in the past where an hour of five aside followed by a pint and a fag was a decent run out.  Those players who couldn't reach the fitness levels he wanted and/or who disagreed with him over it were marked to be sold.

The whole thing can be summed up pretty easily:

Houllier's solution to the right back issue = Kyle Walker
McLeish's solution to the right back issue = Alan Hutton

Which would you prefer?

I also think McLeish has been given a lot more of a chance by the fans than Houllier was, Houllier made a couple of bad judgement errors in quotes/actions at liverpool and half the fans wanted him gone after he'd been in for about 10games.  He then had a really good January and people started to get onside until the man city thing, after which the fans turned again.

[N'ZMAV]

I'd have Houllier over McLeish any day of the week, and I'd have said that last year when we was looking shit and them down the road were winning a trophy.

[Lee]

Let’s be crystal clear about this. Firstly, no matter what Hughton’s track record is, there is no way on earth that we are going to look across the city and poach that lots manager once more. Our board might not be the sharpest tools in the box, but even they would not be so profoundly stupid as to once more play with fire.
As regards the immediate issue, I continue to be surprised at the amount of people that believe that firstly McLeish is going and that secondly any resultant drop off in attendance numbers will be a wake-up call for the board.

Dealing with the first point, the fact that McLeish has acquired Holman, the fact that he’s been scouting out here and the fact that at every interview he exhibits all the traits of a man who know his job is as secure as a WWII German bunker, should light up a giant neon sign saying ‘Villa manager next season.’
As regards the predicted calamitous drop off in attendance numbers. I have little doubt that significant number of fans will choose to not renew next season and we will play out a number of games to gates of sub-25K, but it’s not as if it’s a new phenomenon at Villa Park and I am convinced that the board have prepared well for this and enough fans will support; as demonstrated in another thread.
What worries me though is the growing gulf between our board and fans. If, as I predict, we go into next season and nothing has altered, the relations between the board and the fans will simply further erode. I, like many others, simply do not have the confidence in the board to make the right decisions anymore and I fear that the poor decisions of the past are now preventing any proactive decisions for the future, other than the need to simply survive.

Of course things could be a hell of a lot worse and given our recent losses, it highlights that we are certainly not in a healthy situation right now. However, I do genuinely believe that many fans would have understood the necessary cost-cutting had the board not appointed McLeish. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I personally feel that I would have accepted the bitter pills a lot more had we chosen a manager with a record for trying to play the game properly, as opposed to a merchant of negative football.

Great post Neil, sums it up for me. My only observation is your use of hindsight. This situation was forecast by a lot of people prior to his appointment.

[Merv]

Absolutely. When he was appointed, those of us who were aghast with horror pointed out the multiple reasons why. And over the last few months, I'd say every single one of those reasons have been ticked off.

[Ads]

I cannot help but agree with most of that protest statement.

Short of Billy McNeil, McLiesh is likely to go down as one of the poorest managers in our history. He makes O'Leary look half decent.

[pauliewalnuts]

Absolutely. When he was appointed, those of us who were aghast with horror pointed out the multiple reasons why. And over the last few months, I'd say every single one of those reasons have been ticked off.

Depressingly true, I reckon.

[N'ZMAV]

Absolutely. When he was appointed, those of us who were aghast with horror pointed out the multiple reasons why. And over the last few months, I'd say every single one of those reasons have been ticked off.

Spot on. I gave him a chance, but he's basicially threw it back in my face.