AVFC statement - McLeish sacked.

[Concrete John]

Its defo not a top 6 squad, but it is one of the best squads outside the top 6 surely!

On paper I think it is, but when you look at the defensive ineptitude we've shown, and factor in the rumoured attitude's of some of those defenders, then in actuality it's not.

I do agree there is enough there for top half though.   

[Vanilla]

If you have a team which constantly gives the ball away, how is a player that can pass the ball decently a luxury?

Isn't he potentially the solution?

I think in Villa's case now, any creative player (if we had any) would be drummed out of town. You could almost imagine if Young was still here, he would probably be keeping the bench warm.

[itbrvilla]

Decentarticle on the Football Ramble site

[ozzjim]

I think a squad with NZogbia, Bent, Ireland, Petrov, Dunne, Given and some of the other players we have should be mid table at the very minimum. 12-8th is par. 7th possible. We are under performing in the current league, the speed MON picked up points showed that.

[garyshawsknee]

Yeah,apart from the top 3,its a pretty average league,Stoke and Fulham string together a couple of wins and shoot up the league. The fact that we havent had back to back wins all season,or had a decent unbeaten run since October tells how poor weve been. The squad is good enough to finish 9-12 but for one reason or another the team have under performed and so have the coaching staff.

[Neil Hawkes]

I don't think we do have a top half side.
Our defence was turning to shit two years ago and now the majority of them are older and with more attitude.
Our midfield is mixed with talent, aging pros and upcoming kids - we haven't had a balanced midfield since Milner left.
Our attack is one of the most dangerous in the league. The above negates just about everything they can achieve.

Taking into account just one of the above three is better than the rest, then we are where we should be - as much as it pains me to say it.

[CJ]

Decentarticle on the Football Ramble site

Excellent article - puts the situation very succinctly

[ozzjim]

I don't think we do have a top half side.
Our defence was turning to shit two years ago and now the majority of them are older and with more attitude.
Our midfield is mixed with talent, aging pros and upcoming kids - we haven't had a balanced midfield since Milner left.
Our attack is one of the most dangerous in the league. The above negates just about everything they can achieve.

Taking into account just one of the above three is better than the rest, then we are where we should be - as much as it pains me to say it.

On paper I would disagree about the defence, and it is an area where McLeish was meant to be adept at improving, and has failed to in spectacular fashion. He spent 8 million on it in Given and Hutton, but looking at Dunne for Ireland he has not lost his ability. Cuellar should have played far more, and Warnock dropped a long time before he was. It is not a bad back 4 on paper though when you compare it to the other sides in the table realistically, and age is much less of a factor at the back than anywhere else on the pitch. 

Midfield is our achilles heel in terms of quality, but again he spent 10 million on NZogbia and saw fit to jettison Makoun for Jenas who managed about 4 minutes for us. It wasn't the most astute move you will ever see.

Up front we have talent for sure, but has he ever got the side playing in a manner to utilise it effectively? Bent and Gabby have not looked comfortable and he has bottled the decision to drop one or the other unless injury dictates.

I won't even get started on the fact that Albrighton looks a woeful player on the left where he seems to want to play him, and NZogbia is better down the left. He is just not a very good manager. A half decent one would have us 10th or above. The whole approach to games has been wrong apart from about 5 this season.

[paul_e]

I don't think we do have a top half side.
Our defence was turning to shit two years ago and now the majority of them are older and with more attitude.
Our midfield is mixed with talent, aging pros and upcoming kids - we haven't had a balanced midfield since Milner left.
Our attack is one of the most dangerous in the league. The above negates just about everything they can achieve.

Taking into account just one of the above three is better than the rest, then we are where we should be - as much as it pains me to say it.

On paper I would disagree about the defence, and it is an area where McLeish was meant to be adept at improving, and has failed to in spectacular fashion. He spent 8 million on it in Given and Hutton, but looking at Dunne for Ireland he has not lost his ability. Cuellar should have played far more, and Warnock dropped a long time before he was. It is not a bad back 4 on paper though when you compare it to the other sides in the table realistically, and age is much less of a factor at the back than anywhere else on the pitch. 

Midfield is our achilles heel in terms of quality, but again he spent 10 million on NZogbia and saw fit to jettison Makoun for Jenas who managed about 4 minutes for us. It wasn't the most astute move you will ever see.

Up front we have talent for sure, but has he ever got the side playing in a manner to utilise it effectively? Bent and Gabby have not looked comfortable and he has bottled the decision to drop one or the other unless injury dictates.

I won't even get started on the fact that Albrighton looks a woeful player on the left where he seems to want to play him, and NZogbia is better down the left. He is just not a very good manager. A half decent one would have us 10th or above. The whole approach to games has been wrong apart from about 5 this season.

Spot on.  we're clearly not good enough to compete with the top 6 this season but anything below that should have been fair game.  Last season was the same but Houllier had the mitigating factor of a shocking run of injuries from october until december.  The other important factor was that he saws faults in the squad and made signings to fix the most important.  2 of his signings were probably our 2 best players from Jan until the end of the season.  Have any of McLeish's signings had any major impact?  Given I guess but other than that none of them have done anything to improve our results (I include Keane in that, despite him looking decent our results were very poor with him in the team).

The decision to let Makoun go and replace him with a guy who had been struggling for form/fitness for a couple of seasons seemed odd at the time, in hindsight it was a huge mistake.

The nzogbia/albrighton thing is the one that is driving me insane, we have a youngster who came through on the right wing and looked productive and dangerous.  He's now being played on the left and looks totally out of sorts, it's insane but it all sums up his need to have a tight narrow midfield.  I'd even be willing to let it go if we were bossing things in there but we're not, so the narrow game is not only making us uncreative and predictable it's not even limiting the space for the opposition.

[Villanation]

There is no question we have a strong enough squad to compete in the top half and IMO top 7 or 8.

You only have to look at players like Gabby, Bent, Ireland, Given, N'Zogbia, (there's a player in there somewhere) Bannan, Petrov (this season, not much left in the tank)

Then you look at the next level and even in the case of these players I would put money on the fact that if we sold them they would go to teams challenging for top half, players like Hutton, Warnock, Albrighton, probably Dunne ( again getting on a bit) Cuellor.

There is a decent team in there but you have to have a manager that can utilize them and that the players understand what he wants and we haven't got either, same at Chelsea.

[mr woo]

In my lifetime of following Villa I would estimate that five percent of that time the feelings have been of excitement and even euphoria very occasionally.   The other ninety five percent has been teetering on the brink of rapid decline and catastrophe.

My son who has a brilliant turn of imagery compared it to being the last sniper in Stalingrad counting his bullets and his cigarettes.   For me the endless recurrence of days like yesterday make me feel like the guy in The Deerhunter sitting there with my Proud Past Bright Future scarf tied around my head waiting to be passed the revolver.

Haha, that made me snort out loud! And that's Cavatina in my head for the rest of the day

**. Smart arse alert **

Did you know that Stanley Myers, the composer of Cavatina (commonly known as the theme from the Deerhunter) was in fact born in Brum and went to King Edwards school?

Who knows, he may even qualify as a 'maybe' on the celebrity Villa fan list...

[Boz]

I don't think we do have a top half side.
Our defence was turning to shit two years ago and now the majority of them are older and with more attitude.
Our midfield is mixed with talent, aging pros and upcoming kids - we haven't had a balanced midfield since Milner left.
Our attack is one of the most dangerous in the league. The above negates just about everything they can achieve.

Taking into account just one of the above three is better than the rest, then we are where we should be - as much as it pains me to say it.

On paper, but they fail to deliver consistent performances. I agree the service they receive is poor most of the time, but when they get chances, they more often than not fail to take them. Saturday was a case in point in the first half.

Add this to AM's poor tactical and motivational skills and it's plain his style of play has us in the position we're in.

Lerner should take a leaf out of Abramovitch's book and look for another manager, preferably one who can motivate and wants to play more attractive football.

[paul_e]

I don't think we do have a top half side.
Our defence was turning to shit two years ago and now the majority of them are older and with more attitude.
Our midfield is mixed with talent, aging pros and upcoming kids - we haven't had a balanced midfield since Milner left.
Our attack is one of the most dangerous in the league. The above negates just about everything they can achieve.

Taking into account just one of the above three is better than the rest, then we are where we should be - as much as it pains me to say it.

On paper, but they fail to deliver consistent performances. I agree the service they receive is poor most of the time, but when they get chances, they more often than not fail to take them. Saturday was a case in point in the first half.

Add this to AM's poor tactical and motivational skills and it's plain his style of play has us in the position we're in.

Lerner should take a leaf out of Abramovitch's book and look for another manager, preferably one who can motivate and wants to play more attractive football.

the thing is, give Bent 3-4 chances a game and he'll more than likely put at least 1 away, That's good enough to be competitive and should've seen him hit at least 1 every 2 games.

Seeing the performance of the reserves tonight really brings home how poor a job has been done with getting these guys into the first team squad.  We should be looking at a conveyer belt of great youngsters coming through and filling out the squad but they've either not been given a decent run of games or they've been misused in a system they're not suited too.  I've said it before but we really need someone high up at the club who's job is to make sure that everything is in place to make a success of these kids.  If we're not able to spend huge sums and pay massive wages it's criminal to fail to make the most of our youth success.

[Louzie0]

I've been trying to reconcile in my mind whether it's the style or the results which have really turned me against Mcleish. Obviously the two aren't mutually exclusive, but I genuinely think that the main reason is the style for me. If we were getting the results we have been, but were trying to play good football I think I'd be a lot more patient. As it is even if we survive, I don't see how we'll ever improve if we don't try to adopt a more ambitious approach. Also on a basic level I'd like to be entertained watching Villa, rather than feel like I'm watching us just out of obligation.

I'm reminded of an interview that Luke Young gave to AV (I think during the Asian cup) last year.  He said it was really difficult being in training and having to change from one regime to another - and to another, and then to another (at that stage we'd gone through MON, SMc, Kmc and GH -I think).

Whilst there's a genuine belief that some of our players are sticking to what they know best, I think this happens when they feel they are under pressure.  It's not that the players aren't ambitious, or even that they have forgotten how to play.  Just, for some reason, that they want to stay doing the things where they feel they are safe.

I think an effective manager should be able to overcome this and it may be that AMcL has not had enough time, yet.  I joined the 'dark side' this week on the poll but I'm not hurrying into the shed to paint sheets. 

How much time does he need?  Or is he banking on surviving to the summer, selling off the malcontents and starting again?  If he is, why would he think that bringing in other clubs' bosmans, as quoted in other threads, is the way to go? 

Unless he's been told there's no chance of re-investing money from the players he sells. In which case, we have a lonely and difficult road ahead of us.

Bring on the Qataris!

[claret and blue blood]

Anyone else feel sick in the stomach at the prospect of enduring anymore of McLiesh's terrible brand of cowardly and  negative tactics? I,m really not looking forward to Saturday and if I have to hear any more loyal season ticket holders say there's no way they are renewing if he's still here next season I'll go mad.
Get him out he's killing our club !