AVFC statement - McLeish sacked.

[mikeb1982]

Even if we are relegated he won't be sacked, he's got an excellent record of getting promoted...

[brian green]

I do not disagree with either of you KG or Vanilla.   I accept fully that the manager has an essential role to coordinate play and make the team coalesce as a unit.   The point that Dave made  and which I support is that it is a question of degree.   There have been games this season and yesterday was a classic example when the contrast of performance by the players in the course of a single game to me at least indicates deliberate dereliction of duty by players.   They will almost all of them, certainly the senior players, have experienced bad and incompetent managers in their careers but their professionalism should be more than enough to steady the ship when to put it crudely too frequently our players seem to say "fuck this" or perhaps it is "fuck him".

[Greg N'Ash]

I'm not sure i agree about Keen tactically outhinking Mcleish. Keen made the substitutions and with Herd and Petrov both fading the logical thing would have been for us to replace them but there's nowt to bring on - he didn't have a Plan B frankly because he hasn't got the personell for Plan B. It was either stick Heskey in there or a kid out of position. Thats the pointer to the decline, we now have a weaker bench than Blackburn

[dave.woodhall]

I think what I said was that to get where they are now, every Premier League player has to have displayed not only excellence, but also self-discipline almost from the time they could first walk. They have to have played at a standard we couldn't comprehend in every game, regardless of whether or not they got on with their manager and whether he was any good. So why is it that over the past two seasons some of our players have put in performance that have been so much lower than they were capable of? Professional pride alone should see them doing better.

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

Dave Woodhall pointed out most perceptively some time ago that these are professional footballers who have been playing the game since they were boys.   They should not need the manager to instill basic match sense into them.

No.

But they need a manager to have a plan, to highlight the opposition's weakspots and exploit them. 

We don't have that sort of manager - and that's a pretty big handicap. 

We also have some pretty shit professionals too, of course.  And that doesn't help matters either.  Hopefully they'll bombed out in the summer along with him.

The plan was working very wlel in the first half yesterday, but not so in the 2nd half. I don't believe he told them to stop doing what they were doing because that would not make any sense to anyone. So, this time, I question the players. Why did they come out and play poorly in the second half when clearly they are better than Blackburn? I believe it was the players fault yesterday (and not for the first time either).

[David_Nab]

Our bench was very weak yesterday I know we have injuries but how to be have such a big wage bill and yet so few players !!

[Mister E]

.... all the venom being hurled at him

I know what you mean, Brian, but actually I would say that the Villa fans have been pretty tolerant in general. The angst only really bubbled out last week at Wigan, and understandably. I remember GHou getting a lot more stick, alot earlier last season.

... masks the very flaky and downright bad performances by many of our players.

True - and it's interesting that GHou reckoned that he had identified where he thought the problems were.
Why has McL not acted more decisively to deal with the issues - particularly the number of goals we've been leaking.

... Dave Woodhall pointed out most perceptively some time ago that these are professional footballers who have been playing the game since they were boys.   They should not need the manager to instill basic match sense into them.

True (both about the players and Dave's perceptiveness!) but it should be the management that sets the tone, culture and team-spirit of the squad. In the absence of a strong managerial steer, factions, cliques and disunion tend to appear when things start going wrong.

[Greg N'Ash]

Our bench was very weak yesterday I know we have injuries but how to be have such a big wage bill and yet so few players !!

yep. I remember when we had reserves who had actually played league games. Currently most of our backs up are either kids with a smattering of appearances or none at all. Makes even the DOL-era team look positively brimming with options

[Mister E]

The plan was working very wlel in the first half yesterday, but not so in the 2nd half. I don't believe he told them to stop doing what they were doing because that would not make any sense to anyone. So, this time, I question the players. Why did they come out and play poorly in the second half when clearly they are better than Blackburn? I believe it was the players fault yesterday (and not for the first time either).

True but Kean made two significant changes at half-time which we did not seem to counter - partly 'cos our bench was not really that strong. Ironically, he might have been better to have put Heskey on when withdrawing N'Zog, to deal with the Olsson twins rampaging down their left-side (can't believe I just wrote that!) but then he would probably have had a fans-revolt on his hands.

He can't do any right at the moment.

[mr-villa]

I also want an overhaul of the squad in the summer to address the under performing players, but I want that overhaul to be done by a manager who I believe will help Aston Villa progress.

Well we had such a manager in post this time last year together with a very competent No2 and a decent backroom setup but Randy decided to ditch all that without giving Gerard Houllier the chance to prove his fitness and health to be a MANAGER.  Gerard didn't need to be able to run around a training pitch every day, christ O'Neill if the stories are to be believed wasn't even at training most days.  As the saying goes you reap what you sow and it looks like Randy is going to harvest a bumper crop of shite this summer.

[KevinGage]

That's where we would differ a wee bit Brian.

I do take your point that professional pride and discipline should be instinctive for players at the higher levels of the game, and they should perhaps have enough to 'get over the line' regardless of the inadequacies of the manager. 

But when the momentum changes in a game (as it invariably will in most matches)  the onus is on the manager to see that and act accordingly.   Whether it's replacing a committed player who has given his all and is spent, or a player not playing to instruction. Or a player who was, but has switched off for some reason.

We do have some very suspect professionals though, and there is no getting away from it.

Dunne divides opinion. On his day, he's a wholehearted old fashioned lionheart CB who will throw himself at everything.  But when he doesn't fancy it he's woeful.  I'm still not sure as to whether his more iffy performances with us are merely time catching up with him or whether it's the latter.  He has a longstanding knee injury and the manner in which he plays will take it's toll.   But I recall many periods when he was at Man Citeh and he was giving out stink about his teammates in print (usually the foreign ones) whilst the goals were raining in at his end.  Perhaps the turnover of managers he went through there made him cynical, and he has brought that here.

Warnock was apparently miffed at not getting his move back to Liverpool in 2010 and has never really been back with us since then. Collins -like Dunne- has some refuelling habits that belong to a bygone age.  You could maybe get away with players smoking and drinking in the 70's and 80's.  You could maybe get away with it now - if they were the best players on the pitch.  But they aren't.

They are senior players though, and probably command a respect and influence not consistent with their level of performance.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Yes, the players have shown a lack of professionalism, but isn't that down to the Manager to counter it.

In any results based industry, the Manager cops it if the performances are unacceptable.

If, as we believe, McLeish stays in the Summer then he will get a few of his own players in, but how much better will they be when we're on such a restricted budget?

If Lerner truly believes that McLeish is the right choice, then he needs to back him with healthy transfer funds.

[Doorbell]

I think the players are doing what they've been told to do and always have done, be it MoN, Kev M, Houllier or now AMc.  Last season saw a lot of upheaval, professional or not, disruptive goings on at the club were bound to have an effect.  Houlliers training and football style meant that the team were learning a new system which appeared to have started taking effect and the players responding with the two good wins against Liverpool and arsenal.  I honestly believe that if Houllier could have carried on we would not be where we are now. 

[Rip Van We Go Again]

I honestly believe that if Houllier could have carried on we would not be where we are now. 

Hard to say.
Certainly the football wouldn't have been so dire.

[Doorbell]

I honestly believe that if Houllier could have carried on we would not be where we are now. 

Hard to say.
Certainly the football wouldn't have been so dire.

I think the players would have been enjoying there football more, and that would have reflected on the pitch and in the results.