AVFC statement - McLeish sacked.

[MarkM]

I think its interesting that as far as I have noticed no one actually wants him at Villa long term.

I dont think I have read a single reply that says "He is great he must stay, he can take us forward!"

Surely the owners must realise that although he is a good bloke, he is operating at a level above his ability [there is no shame in that, other managers have tried and failed... Keane, Warnock, McCarthy, Southgate, Holloway etc... to name but a few]

If we stay up, I am sure that the board will give him another season but if things did not improve would sack him after a few months, leaving us trying to get another manager in and another season of 'Transition'

Our future really does look bleak

[PaulWinch again]

It's not only Mcleish that needs to go, Faulkner needs to go as well. The Chief Exec has to take some responsibility for the appointment and the utter shambles that makes up Villa at the moment. You can't sack the owner, so the Chief Exec and Manager have to go for massive underperforming.

[KevinGage]

Bannan and Gardner are two forward-thinking players who were shoe-horned, isolated and not backed up, either defensively or by movement. This I would put down, I'm afraid, to the manager. Brendan Rodgers has proved that you can train players into movement and passing, playing triangles and fearlessly playing out from the back. I don't expect us to be as good as Swansea at that exact style as Rodgers has had longer and more of his own signings in that team, but if there were any form of training like that you would see some dividends on the pitch and some hints in the tactics, like last . As it happens, there is zero evidence of it whatsoever.

Another tick in the Rodgers column is he would know about most of the young up and coming players across the country due to his role at Chelsea.  He would also have a decent knowledge of players in the lower divisions due to his time at Reading and Swansea in the Championship  Pretty crucial, for any manager needing to operate on a budget.

I know you weren't necessarily advocating him as a replacement, but there it is.

Against all that, he was let go by Reading (or the 'mutual consent' cop out - amounts to the same thing really)  due to indifferent results. 

[5ft811st2 Durham]

It's not only Mcleish that needs to go, Faulkner needs to go as well. The Chief Exec has to take some responsibility for the appointment and the utter shambles that makes up Villa at the moment. You can't sack the owner, so the Chief Exec and Manager have to go for massive underperforming.

I don't particularly blame Faulkner. If Randy had wanted a world class manager to replace Houllier, then Faulkner was hardly going to stand in his
way.


 

[Monty]

Bannan and Gardner are two forward-thinking players who were shoe-horned, isolated and not backed up, either defensively or by movement. This I would put down, I'm afraid, to the manager. Brendan Rodgers has proved that you can train players into movement and passing, playing triangles and fearlessly playing out from the back. I don't expect us to be as good as Swansea at that exact style as Rodgers has had longer and more of his own signings in that team, but if there were any form of training like that you would see some dividends on the pitch and some hints in the tactics, like last . As it happens, there is zero evidence of it whatsoever.

Another tick in the Rodgers column is he would know about most of the young up and coming players across the country due to his role at Chelsea.  He would also have a decent knowledge of players in the lower divisions due to his time at Reading and Swansea in the Championship  Pretty crucial, for any manager needing to operate on a budget.

I know you weren't necessarily advocating him as a replacement, but there it is.

Against all that, he was let go by Reading (or the 'mutual consent' cop out - amounts to the same thing really)  due to indifferent results. 

But it could also be said that, unlike McLeish, he has shown a willingness to learn from the mistakes he made at Reading. Also, he may be a flavour of the month, but his success doesn't seem built on a fluky Ipswich-style wing-and-a-prayer, but on meticulous planning and sticking to what he believes. Swansea look here to stay as long as he wants to be there, and I'd take him in a heartbeat.

[Mazrim]

I dont really want to give funds to a manager with the sword of Damocles hanging over him though so it's best if he just goes now.
It's a bit rotten to have to do it but why not approach Swansea and Norwich to speak to their managers and see what happens? Make it worth their while somehow.

They should both be safe now so get rid of McLeish, put Sid and KMac in temporary charge and go for those guys. It will give them time to bed in at Villa, ready for an overhaul in the summer.

Of course, ideally the Qataris come in and install Hiddink and well, that's just dandy.

[PaulWinch again]

It's not only Mcleish that needs to go, Faulkner needs to go as well. The Chief Exec has to take some responsibility for the appointment and the utter shambles that makes up Villa at the moment. You can't sack the owner, so the Chief Exec and Manager have to go for massive underperforming.

I don't particularly blame Faulkner. If Randy had wanted a world class manager to replace Houllier, then Faulkner was hardly going to stand in his
way.


 

Yes but as Chief Exec he would have been at the forefront of appointing a new manager. Somehow that ended up being a man who had experienced relegation twice, played horrendous football which went against the direction we were going under Houllier and on top of that required a fairly hefty compensation package. All in all a complete and utter disater.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

I dont really want to give funds to a manager with the sword of Damocles hanging over him though so it's best if he just goes now.

I'd be reluctant to let him have any money now, anyway.
Would be like giving a Rubiks cube to Stephen Hawking.

[Mazrim]

It seems to me that Faulkner is just a regent for Randy. There's no way he made any appointments without Randy's blessing. So I hold Randy fully accountable. Faulkner, in my opinion, is just a guy who has found himself in a job he has no credentials for at all. Rather than doing a bad job, he isn't doing a job at all.

[KevinGage]

Bannan and Gardner are two forward-thinking players who were shoe-horned, isolated and not backed up, either defensively or by movement. This I would put down, I'm afraid, to the manager. Brendan Rodgers has proved that you can train players into movement and passing, playing triangles and fearlessly playing out from the back. I don't expect us to be as good as Swansea at that exact style as Rodgers has had longer and more of his own signings in that team, but if there were any form of training like that you would see some dividends on the pitch and some hints in the tactics, like last . As it happens, there is zero evidence of it whatsoever.

Another tick in the Rodgers column is he would know about most of the young up and coming players across the country due to his role at Chelsea.  He would also have a decent knowledge of players in the lower divisions due to his time at Reading and Swansea in the Championship  Pretty crucial, for any manager needing to operate on a budget.

I know you weren't necessarily advocating him as a replacement, but there it is.

Against all that, he was let go by Reading (or the 'mutual consent' cop out - amounts to the same thing really)  due to indifferent results. 

But it could also be said that, unlike McLeish, he has shown a willingness to learn from the mistakes he made at Reading. Also, he may be a flavour of the month, but his success doesn't seem built on a fluky Ipswich-style wing-and-a-prayer, but on meticulous planning and sticking to what he believes. Swansea look here to stay as long as he wants to be there, and I'd take him in a heartbeat.

I agree Monts, he'd be my choice too.

[PaulWinch again]

I think what's clear from this thread is now that a huge majority of supporters now believe that Mcleish has to go, be that now or in the summer. Hardly anyone is looking beyond the summer, I don't see anything to suggest he could possibly turn around that opinion. He just has to go, and Randy will pay for dithering.

[Mister E]

I think Eck thinks that the team he put out on Saturday was an attacking team. You could argue that he has a point. Bent, Keane, Gabby, Bannan, Albrighton and Gardner are all players that you would consider attacking players  ....
His tactics are awful, his team selections at times are baffling.

This is the point made in the match thread / post-match thread. He played attacking players but left 2 attacking kids in CMF. We lost the game in CMF on Saturday, and McL and Grant did not 'get it'. That's why the first subb should have been Herd. And he then rants and raves at the players for getting things wrong.

McL is baffling; he's sending out all the wrong signals to the players; he's clearly not clear how he wants the team to play - or at least he's sending out players whose strengths are not in the tactics he desires. He might as well tie the players' legs together before kick off.

[pauliewalnuts]

It seems to me that Faulkner is just a regent for Randy. There's no way he made any appointments without Randy's blessing. So I hold Randy fully accountable. Faulkner, in my opinion, is just a guy who has found himself in a job he has no credentials for at all. Rather than doing a bad job, he isn't doing a job at all.

The stupidest mistake was when replacing MON, putting "must have premier league experience" at the top of the list of criteria.

You can understand them making that mistake from inexperience, maybe, but then to find themselves all of twelve months later, making the same mistake *again* is just unforgiveable.

Not only is it unforgiveable, it is in large part why we found ourselves with a short list of two, Martinez and McLeish, two managers who inhabit the arse end of the league (and even lower in the case of the successful applicant).

Of course, not only is this a pretty fucking poor situation to engineer yourself into, it makes zero sense on a footballing level, as they are two managers with totally contrasting styles.

To then cap it all, they get out-manoeuvred by Dave Fucking Whelan, who makes us look a bunch of amateurs, and end up paying Small Heath a fortune to prise away the manager who had just got them relegated.

How anyone can look at a course of events like that and conclude anything other than a case of total fuckwittedness is absolutely beyond me, and I hope at some point Randy sits down and thinks about this, and works out that he's made a colossal mistake, and puts it right, before it is too late.

Right now the club is slowly ebbing away into obscurity and irrelevance again. If he sits back and watches that happen, then God help us.

[Mister E]

It seems to me that Faulkner is just a regent for Randy. There's no way he made any appointments without Randy's blessing. So I hold Randy fully accountable. Faulkner, in my opinion, is just a guy who has found himself in a job he has no credentials for at all. Rather than doing a bad job, he isn't doing a job at all.

The stupidest mistake was when replacing MON, putting "must have premier league experience" at the top of the list of criteria.

You can understand them making that mistake from inexperience, maybe, but then to find themselves all of twelve months later, making the same mistake *again* is just unforgiveable.

Not only is it unforgiveable, it is in large part why we found ourselves with a short list of two, Martinez and McLeish, two managers who inhabit the arse end of the league (and even lower in the case of the successful applicant).

Of course, not only is this a pretty fucking poor situation to engineer yourself into, it makes zero sense on a footballing level, as they are two managers with totally contrasting styles.

To then cap it all, they get out-manoeuvred by Dave Fucking Whelan, who makes us look a bunch of amateurs, and end up paying Small Heath a fortune to prise away the manager who had just got them relegated.

How anyone can look at a course of events like that and conclude anything other than a case of total fuckwittedness is absolutely beyond me, and I hope at some point Randy sits down and thinks about this, and works out that he's made a colossal mistake, and puts it right, before it is too late.

Right now the club is slowly ebbing away into obscurity and irrelevance again. If he sits back and watches that happen, then God help us.

Fair points made, Paulie.
I was listening to a radio debate about Wolves on Saturday and the argument was put forward - without dissent from anyone - that the mistake Morgan and Moxey made was not having a replacment lined up before shooting McCarthy.
How my mind went back to last summer and the shambolic recruitment process!

Clark, Lambert, Rodgers and Adkins were the managers we should have been looking at as candidates - and many people advocated this on here, IIRC. We could have put up with a season of transition if the manager was up-and-coming, recognised the value of the youth and got us to a place where investment could have started next season from a new, stronger base.

[Merv]

This is the point made in the match thread / post-match thread. He played attacking players but left 2 attacking kids in CMF. We lost the game in CMF on Saturday, and McL and Grant did not 'get it'. That's why the first subb should have been Herd. And he then rants and raves at the players for getting things wrong.

Yeah. He tried this earlier in the season, of course, when he insisted that he was puzzled we weren't scoring goals despite playing 'four' strikers - at the time we had CNZ, EH, GA behind DB. What he doesn't understand is that it's not just about putting a load of forwards together at the same time, it's about the balance of the side, the blend of players in that side. He doesn't really understand.