AVFC statement - McLeish sacked.

[PaulWinch again]

"We were never going to go gung ho against City because we haven't got the players to do that"

He was saying similar things when he managed Blues He said at the beginning of the season he would achieve more with better players here

I think he would be capable of relegating anybody with his negativity and inferiority complex

Go now

It's infuriating, in that he doesn't seem to learn his lesson and falls back to old habits.

I know City are a good side (although in a bit of a slump, they'd had some iffy results away from home of late, and weren't at their best yesterday), but you have people paying 40 plus quid to go and watch that, you at least owe them an attempt to actually get something from the game.

For all the bleating on about how fans don't like him because of x, y and z, and how the irritation of the fans passes through to the players on the pitch, compare and contrast yesterday's ambition-free bilge with the approach against Arsenal.

Yes, we lost both matches, but were incredibly unfortunate to do so against Arsenal, having had a right go at them, and got applauded off the pitch, and then went on to win at Chelsea.

I would really hate to be the person in charge of selling season tickets next season, as I really think we are going to struggle to sell tickets to watch us toil and struggle to keep the score down against big teams (whilst failing to do much against weaker teams).

McLeish's post match interviews made the situation even worse. No, Villa fans do not just want to see players sweat blood, Alex, and no, we were not in any way unlucky to get nothing from the game. We deserved what we got - fuck all.

We are gradually becoming the sort of team the rest of the league hates and would be glad to see go down, and that's down to one man, the manager.

Precisely how I feel. Fundamentally the issue is that Mcleish has a complete misunderstanding of what football fans will accept. We accepted a heroic defeat against Arsenal, because we played some good stuff and had a right go. Yesterday we got what we deserved and it would have been a complete robbery had we got any points. He's got to go, because he just does not understand. If Randy wants to increase revenue he needs a manager who is going to offer a much better product for the punters to watch.

[Lee]

I've done a lot of thinking this morning. Randy will not sack McLeish. Not a hope. I've arrived at a few inconvenient truths too. Bear with me.

As fans, we are emotionally involved so we often don't see the wood for the trees. We have a passion for what happens at the club so it is difficult for us to coldly analyse events as they unfold. We live and breath the club and kick every ball, jump for every header and dive into every 50:50. By nature we are divided into optimists and pessimists. Some of us wish to see a positive outcome in everything that happens Aston Villa. Others can instantly see the pitfalls of every possible scenario. Few of us can see the immediate consequences of what unfolds.

As an optimist, I usually try to find a positive. I found a positive when we went out of the Uefa Cup after Martin fielded a weakened side(though I later became critical of this decision). I found a positive when O'Neill left. Surely this meant Randy had woken up to the fact we'd reached our ceiling with MON and needed a top class manager to break through to the top four. Surely this meant some quality players from the continent would arrive and the place would freshen up. When Houllier was appointed I thought we'd got a manager with a good track record who might surprise us. hen Bent was signed I thought, 'here we go', this is the Aston Villa of ambition that I knew we had got when Randy Lerner took over. When we parted with Houllier I thought we'd get a manager who was a better fit and that we'd finally start building again. I expected players would leave but that new ones would arrive. Even when we got McLeish I thought 'Randy knows what he's doing', I looked at his record and was swayed by some of the 'He's MON without the money' arguments on here. I reasoned that he'd stabilise us as a top ten outfit then be given the green light to push on towards top 6 again. Even though galled that top players were not replaced last summer, I reasoned there was some masterplan at work and that come January we'd make three or four top signings (like in 2007).

Having spent the morning reflecting on Aston Villa, a few things have struck me. As a season of torture has unfolded, it's hard to conceptualise how far we have fallen in eighteen months. (By the way I don't want people jumping on me for being negative here or for talking the club down or anything. This stuff means a lot to me and I spent a bit of time committing this to keyboard. )

Here's a few quotes to sum up how I feel right now. Go back to the day MON walked. Randy said 'Martin and I no longer shared a common vision of how to move forward'. Go back to the day Houllier was appointed villa manager. Houllier said 'Aston Villa are the kind of club that belong 7th to 12th in the Premier League'. Go back to last summer. Why do you think Martinez turned us down? He was being asked to do an impossible job. He was being asked to come in to dismantle the remnants of the side that had been top 6 three seasons in a row and to rebuild with no funds available. Martinez decided Wigan was a better bet. In desperation, the board chased McLeish. The manager who relegated our rivals twice! (Again, don't jump on me. I have never ever had a problem with where he came from. I have always given him a chance. I only mention this because it was sure to be a factor in how the new manager would be accepted by the fans). It was an appointment that was sure to divide the fans.

So we got the worst of all possible worlds with McLeish. He didn't arrive with a clean slate, he arrived with considerable baggage and was sure to divide our supporters. His appointment was a statement of mediocrity and lack of ambition. He was then expected to cut our wage bill and accept bids for our senior players. Attendances were sure to fall as it was the most unambitious summer down Villa Park since the dark days of Doug Ellis. We are in the midst of the perfect storm.  We need to be united, we need to pull the club out of this (the way we did last season by getting behind the team), but we are being given nothing to cheer. We have had the heart ripped out of us.

We'll have to just get behind the team and manager now. Randy will not sack McLeish, he can't. He appointed him, he probably doesn't care so long as the wage bill is reduced and we are more self sufficient. I'd wager Randy doesn't een know where we are in the table. Randy has made a right mess. As fans, we have to hope and do our bit to claw us out of it.

Spot on!

[NeilH]

Okay, let me turn it around a little. You’re Randy Lerner, you’ve appointed a manager against all fan advice because you’ve been told, and firmly believe, that there is no man better qualified to lead Villa through a difficult period of cuts. Over the last couple of seasons you’ve forked out millions in compensation to failed managers and now 24 games into the tenure of this new manager (of whom you’ve had to compensate his old employers) it’s going wrong.

You stand to lose millions of pounds on top of the millions you’ve already paid out for previous decision AND to make things worse, you stand to have fans and press alike scream ‘I told you so’ at you.

What would you do, if you were Lerner?

[eastie]

Lerner will lose far more in revenue being relegated than he will lose by sacking mcleish- last season he dug deep to save us by signing bent, this season he needs to pull the trigger and fast, dither at your peril randy!

[PaulWinch again]

Okay, let me turn it around a little. You’re Randy Lerner, you’ve appointed a manager against all fan advice because you’ve been told, and firmly believe, that there is no man better qualified to lead Villa through a difficult period of cuts. Over the last couple of seasons you’ve forked out millions in compensation to failed managers and now 24 games into the tenure of this new manager (of whom you’ve had to compensate his old employers) it’s going wrong.

You stand to lose millions of pounds on top of the millions you’ve already paid out for previous decision AND to make things worse, you stand to have fans and press alike scream ‘I told you so’ at you.

What would you do, if you were Lerner?

The bottom line is appointing Mcleish was a mistake on a number of levels, and Lerner would get a lot more respect for admitting he made a mistake and trying to rectify it. He needs football people to advise him and stop listening to people who know nothing about the game. The fact we went from a team trying to adapt to a modern approach under Houllier, then looking at a similar man in Martinez and then go full circle and appoint Mcleish shows how shambolic it all is.

[pooligan]

After yesterdays approach to the game and then his interview afterwards he should walk.

[django]

Interesting reading the views of non-Villa fans on a couple of threads on the Guardian website. Mcleish is being universally panned and much sympathy being thrown our way.

Its quite interesting to read because due to the partisan nature of football it can be quite hard to get a clear picture when you're too close to something. (See Livepool fans hilarious conspiracy theories re Suarez affair, or my feeling that Savage had faked it when Dion nutted him)

I think that's one of the reasons that some our more patient fans have tried to give the manager a bit more time, trying not to have a knee-jerk response. Thing is some people are trying so hard to give him the benefit of the doubt that they are maybe turning a blind eye to what everyone else can see, he's doing a thoroughly rotten job. Just as Houllier did last season.   

After the bizarre appointment they made last time I have no faith in the board to appoint anyone better, but i doubt they could get it much worse.

For what it's worth i had a look at the fixtures and don't think we'll go down, but if we don't get a win in one of the next couple of games i wouldn't put any money on it. That i am looking at the upcoming fixtures of our 'relegation rivals' for a second successive season when we have international players for every position says it all.

[Boz]

There has been many erudite posts on this thread on both sides of the fence about whether AM should go or stay.

Personally, I think Steve Morgan at Wolves has grasped the nettle, albeit he probably didn't want to, but Premiership status is something the club need and didn't look like achieving under Mick.

At B6 we have an owner we are told this weekend will support a big signing in the summer and today we see in the Mirror, AM is after another player from over the border. Doesn't this emphasis AM's lack of ambition. We need a LB, but what's this sort of speculation telling the players we already have who are possibilities for this position. In addition, RL needs to be aware that the summer may be too late if our 7 point buffer continues to erode, as it well might, based on Sunday's performance.

RL needs to think long and hard about VP, because despite his often stated desire for Villa to succeed, his investment is losing value, which alongside a drop into the Championship would be disasterous, especially if the SHA were promoted. It's not as ridiculous as it might seem.

[Compass]

After yesterdays approach to the game and then his interview afterwards he should walk.

That would require McLeish to do the honourable thing and we know he's incapable of that.

Ditched his home international team for the shit down the road and then sent them a sloppy email, while they were on the brink of administration, so he could come here.

He's here purely for the money and he won't walk away from millions. He's in a win-win situation. If he keeps us up he'll probably keep his job, but if he sends us down he'll be awarded handsomely with a nice compensation.

Randy should always be mocked as the 'Boss'. What kind of owner hires someone who caused another company to lose multi millions? He did it straight after as well. Who does that in the real world or even football? McLeish sent down a club and Randy awarded him a massive wage rise and another shot in the Premier League. Why? How stupid can a person be? He wasn't even a cheap option and the fans were certainly against him. Terrible excuse of an chairman.

[mr underhill]

At the moment we are a group of internationals and an excuse of a team.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

No point in him going if there is no backing for a potential new Manager.

[django]

A few quotes from non-villa fans on that Guardian thread..

"That was far from Villa's worst performance of the season. Anybody who watched their 11 men behind the ball display whilst 3 goals down to Spurs will testify to that. I'm no Villa van, they can get relegated or finish 10th for all I care, but I can't stand to see McLeish in charge at what should be a top half Premier League side. Everybody, never mind the poor Villa fans who pay to go, can live without his pathetic brand of football. I mean, Heskey, one of the very least technically gifted footballers of all time, on the wing? In the process, putting Albrighton, one of your better players, onto the left out of position? Whats the logic? Where's the logic in doggedly defending when you are already losing? I just can't get my head around it. Unless he has decided that his one ambition for Villa, former European Cup winners, 40,000+ stadium, productive youth system and all, is to avoid relegation and he is worried it will come down to goal difference. Perverse."



"Mcleish on the other hand, crickey!
When he made the move to Villa, these blogs were full of outraged Villa supporters; they kept being told "Oh, its only because he used to coach your rivals, don't be so tribal, give the man a chance".... Now do you see why they were like this"



"I've watched Villa a few times on the box and saw them at Spurs this season. Their performance could only be described as meek. I was robbed of the joy of victory because how can you claim to have beaten someone if they haven't even tried to play? Wigan, Wolves, Blackburn et al maybe at the bottom but they cannot be faulted for effort. Villa were pathetic. They play as if Mccleish has instructed them to Get out there, roll over, and die.
What's strange is they actually have a good squad of players. Villa fans-what the fuck is going on over there?"



"McLeish is the advocate of defeatism. Sets up his team to do fudge all for 85 minutes only to try and nick something out of the match in the last 5 minutes. Pathetic.
Manchester City didn't even have to defend other then that Hart save -- which came at the end. So glad they got the three points."



"There's probably only a single person on this Earth who thinks playing Emile Heskey as a rght sided defensive midfielder is a good idea. And by the strangest of coincidences, he's found himself managing Aston Villa."



"Commiserations to the Villa fans too, how do you put up with McLeish flavoured football every week? Their's a decent team there too, why play such a drab and grinding brand of football?"



"Aston Villa are absoutely terrible to watch.
There is no other team in the Premier League who are consistently devoid of effort and belief.
That was exceptionally poor stuff"



"Give McLeish the England job so I never have to watch one of his teams play football again."




"The worrying thing for Villa is McLeish can do the Birmingham double. What the hell was Lerner smoking when he appointed him? On the basis of winning a cup with a freak goal at the end and a club with money they didn't even have to buy players?
At least with Steve Kean, Blackburn set up to try and win games. Other than the Arsenal game last week and Manchester City a few weeks ago, they have been in every single game, trying to give their best."

[Walmley_Villa]

I'd forward those onto Nicky Key when she wonders why crowds are down....and that the perception of the outside world...

[Dave Cooper please]

What was the fans reaction at the end of the game? My stream stopped working in the last min.

What? Mr. 'I'm a cinsiderably better fan than yow' didn't even go? For shame.

[itbrvilla]

A few quotes from non-villa fans on that Guardian thread..

"That was far from Villa's worst performance of the season. Anybody who watched their 11 men behind the ball display whilst 3 goals down to Spurs will testify to that. I'm no Villa van, they can get relegated or finish 10th for all I care, but I can't stand to see McLeish in charge at what should be a top half Premier League side. Everybody, never mind the poor Villa fans who pay to go, can live without his pathetic brand of football. I mean, Heskey, one of the very least technically gifted footballers of all time, on the wing? In the process, putting Albrighton, one of your better players, onto the left out of position? Whats the logic? Where's the logic in doggedly defending when you are already losing? I just can't get my head around it. Unless he has decided that his one ambition for Villa, former European Cup winners, 40,000+ stadium, productive youth system and all, is to avoid relegation and he is worried it will come down to goal difference. Perverse."



"Mcleish on the other hand, crickey!
When he made the move to Villa, these blogs were full of outraged Villa supporters; they kept being told "Oh, its only because he used to coach your rivals, don't be so tribal, give the man a chance".... Now do you see why they were like this"



"I've watched Villa a few times on the box and saw them at Spurs this season. Their performance could only be described as meek. I was robbed of the joy of victory because how can you claim to have beaten someone if they haven't even tried to play? Wigan, Wolves, Blackburn et al maybe at the bottom but they cannot be faulted for effort. Villa were pathetic. They play as if Mccleish has instructed them to Get out there, roll over, and die.
What's strange is they actually have a good squad of players. Villa fans-what the fuck is going on over there?"



"McLeish is the advocate of defeatism. Sets up his team to do fudge all for 85 minutes only to try and nick something out of the match in the last 5 minutes. Pathetic.
Manchester City didn't even have to defend other then that Hart save -- which came at the end. So glad they got the three points."



"There's probably only a single person on this Earth who thinks playing Emile Heskey as a rght sided defensive midfielder is a good idea. And by the strangest of coincidences, he's found himself managing Aston Villa."



"Commiserations to the Villa fans too, how do you put up with McLeish flavoured football every week? Their's a decent team there too, why play such a drab and grinding brand of football?"



"Aston Villa are absoutely terrible to watch.
There is no other team in the Premier League who are consistently devoid of effort and belief.
That was exceptionally poor stuff"



"Give McLeish the England job so I never have to watch one of his teams play football again."




"The worrying thing for Villa is McLeish can do the Birmingham double. What the hell was Lerner smoking when he appointed him? On the basis of winning a cup with a freak goal at the end and a club with money they didn't even have to buy players?
At least with Steve Kean, Blackburn set up to try and win games. Other than the Arsenal game last week and Manchester City a few weeks ago, they have been in every single game, trying to give their best."

All spot on.  Someone at the club must be concerned?