AVFC statement - McLeish sacked.

[MarkM]

"So there's got to be a wee bit of patience."

A WEE BIT OF PATIENCE!

Its February for gods sake, the season is drawing to a bloody close! How patient do they want us to be?

We have had two seasons of 'Transition' with this season being the one of the most life sucking ones I can remember

[PaulWinch again]

I think the patience from the fans has been remarkably good, but it's ended now. I don't think there's any way back and it is all his own fault for the approach he's taken. I personally can't take anymore of this awful football.

[Concrete John]

Well, as one of the small minority that wouldn't pull the trigger right now, I suppose I should back my position up, so here goes:-

1.  We all seemed to agree with Houllier's position that there was a fair bit of dead wood/troublemakers at the club and it needed a clearout, yet he hasn't been given the backing by Randy to accomplish that. 
2.  League position wise we are lower than we should be, but not massively, so it terms of sheer results we're not as bad as some of the performances would lead us to believe.
3.  I'm not sure changing manager now gains us anything, as we'd have a shitty list of candidates to choose from.  That opinion being based on the fact I don't think we will go down.

If things haven't improved by the end of the season I'll probably jump on the 'get rid' bandwagon, but until then we gain nothing by acting now.  So until then it's better to get behind the team, and manager, for the good of the club. 

[Merv]

Next few weeks will be interesting. This is the stage last season that we started to improve under GH; on the evidence of the last few games, we're beginning to unravel, so let's see how we perform over the next half-dozen matches.

[pauliewalnuts]

The thing is, he seems to be missing the point, in that a lot of us are most angry, not about what the players turn in in terms of performance, but the way he sends us out to play.

Take the Wigan game, for example. It was utter dross, but I am struggling to think of a player who didn't do what was asked of him.

They did what the manager told them to do. The problem is that, once again, the manager sent them out to play for a draw, only this time, it wasn't against a top team, it was against the bottom of the league team.

Houllier got slaughtered last year for his perceived defeatism in his attitude, but this year we've seen a decent number of actual performances (rather than manager talk) which showed some of the least ambitious football I can remember in 30 plus years of watching Villa.

McLeish has always been a defensive, cautious manager, this is what he does. If he's suggesting we need to be a bit patient because he's going to undergo some damascene conversion and turn into Pep Guardiola, then we might as well ditch the bloke now, because that is not going to happen.

His post match interviews seem to be getting less and less grounded in reality, too. The last two of them have been the most surreally detached from reality yet. It's hard to show patience when you have a manager who is so clearly on a different planet.

What, for example, does he think most fans think when we're playing at a side so utterly shite as Wigan, and we take off Albrighton and bring on Emile Fucking Heskey whilst N'Zogbia and Ireland (who have both fouind a bit of form lately) are left sitting on the bench?

What kind of patience is going to combat that negativity? What are we supposed to be patient about, exactly?

We now have to go forward without Robbie Keane and Darren Bent, and with Richard Dunne injured. Maybe McLeish will reflect that, had he not been so utterly negative so frequently while we had comparatively few injuries, we'd have a few more points on the board now, rather than go into a run-in with key players missing, morale rock bottom, and a support which seems to, en masse, have turned against him.

[Phil from the upper holte]

"To be fair to the Villa fans they've been fantastic on their away travels, so I can't start criticising them for one particular game

He's knocking the home support now!

Disgrace

[robbo1874]

I'm not a fan of the results or the football being served up by mcleish, but it's too soon to pull the trigger, in my view. Don't think you should sack a manager mid- season unless your adrift at the bottom.

We won't go down, I really don't think we're that bad. We should see where we're at come the end of the season and then either back him, or sack him. At the moment I think he should go at the end of the season, but if we go on a bit of a run and pull of a decent finish,  say 10th or better, then he should get some cash to spend and another crack next season.

I wouldn't normally class 10th as a decent finish, but under the circumstances I thin k it probably would be this season.

[Phil from the upper holte]

If we lose to Blackburn then I think there will be an uproar, they will only be 5 points behind us, That is easily catcable

[Phil from the upper holte]

They then have wolves and Bolton

[David_Nab]

He sends his teams not to lose as if he is some master tacticean stopping the opposition , the problem is he has no skill in getting the team to attack.

I can literally recall one time Albrighton getting in a position to cross apart from taking a corner ..he was constantly tracking back.Thats the reason Ireland and Nzog have been dropped he doesn't think they work hard enough or track back which in Ireland's case I disgree he is very good as stealing the ball away.
In a game with 10 out field players relying on 2 players Keane and Bent to be the attacking threat is complete stupidity.

[PaulWinch again]

The thing is, he seems to be missing the point, in that a lot of us are most angry, not about what the players turn in in terms of performance, but the way he sends us out to play.

Take the Wigan game, for example. It was utter dross, but I am struggling to think of a player who didn't do what was asked of him.

They did what the manager told them to do. The problem is that, once again, the manager sent them out to play for a draw, only this time, it wasn't against a top team, it was against the bottom of the league team.

Houllier got slaughtered last year for his perceived defeatism in his attitude, but this year we've seen a decent number of actual performances (rather than manager talk) which showed some of the least ambitious football I can remember in 30 plus years of watching Villa.

McLeish has always been a defensive, cautious manager, this is what he does. If he's suggesting we need to be a bit patient because he's going to undergo some damascene conversion and turn into Pep Guardiola, then we might as well ditch the bloke now, because that is not going to happen.

His post match interviews seem to be getting less and less grounded in reality, too. The last two of them have been the most surreally detached from reality yet. It's hard to show patience when you have a manager who is so clearly on a different planet.

What, for example, does he think most fans think when we're playing at a side so utterly shite as Wigan, and we take off Albrighton and bring on Emile Fucking Heskey whilst N'Zogbia and Ireland (who have both fouind a bit of form lately) are left sitting on the bench?

What kind of patience is going to combat that negativity? What are we supposed to be patient about, exactly?

We now have to go forward without Robbie Keane and Darren Bent, and with Richard Dunne injured. Maybe McLeish will reflect that, had he not been so utterly negative so frequently while we had comparatively few injuries, we'd have a few more points on the board now, rather than go into a run-in with key players missing, morale rock bottom, and a support which seems to, en masse, have turned against him.

Spot on Paulie.

[Merv]

The thing is, he seems to be missing the point, in that a lot of us are most angry, not about what the players turn in in terms of performance, but the way he sends us out to play.

It's convenient for him to miss that point though, and convenient also for those who think he should stay for the remainder of the season (and beyond) and not be judged until then. That's why I'm satisfied I've made my judgment now. Of course, McLeish's plan would be to get through to the summer, sign a few new players, hope we improve simply by bringing in some fresh legs. But what he'll do with those players, I don't know... who will be bring in that will make him change his mindset?
That's why I don't rate him. He's had a decent, full squad to select from for the majority of the season, but he misuses the players, he's working to a very odd strategy, and - as I've said a few times now (I'm boring myself), this manager does not 'get' football.

Now, he is genuinely without two or three key players and I can't see us improving. We'll limp through to the end of the season and get away with it; I'll be stunned if we actually go down. But moving on from there, taking us forward... I just can't see it happening under him.

[Mister E]

Well, as one of the small minority that wouldn't pull the trigger right now, I suppose I should back my position up, so here goes:-

1.  We all seemed to agree with Houllier's position that there was a fair bit of dead wood/troublemakers at the club and it needed a clearout, yet he hasn't been given the backing by Randy to accomplish that. 
2.  League position wise we are lower than we should be, but not massively, so it terms of sheer results we're not as bad as some of the performances would lead us to believe.
3.  I'm not sure changing manager now gains us anything, as we'd have a shitty list of candidates to choose from.  That opinion being based on the fact I don't think we will go down.

If things haven't improved by the end of the season I'll probably jump on the 'get rid' bandwagon, but until then we gain nothing by acting now.  So until then it's better to get behind the team, and manager, for the good of the club. 

Well argued, John.

My view is that he will not get sacked - yet. If we continue to be as sterile as we have been, RL may uncharacteristically reach for the revolver and put McL out of his, and our, misery. In which case, he'd look to KMac and Sid to see us through to the summer close season. The question is where the tipping point is for RL.

The problem McL has is that he has injuries to key players, indifferent support from the players (I suspect) and appears to be indecisive, tactically naive and bereft of ideas. Add to that the fact that the fans have finally come out in defiance of him - Saturday's response to the first substitution was vociferous, animated and unrelenting - and only a win at Blackburn will stem the angst.

I'm glad I've got tickets for the game at Ewood: it is going to be a pivotal game in this season's turbulence, I think. Trouble is, I don't see us winning it ... which means more of the same as on this thread.

And, the anger being articulated at away games will come to VP - which will probably mean the team and management will become even more twitchy and less likely to get the results the club needs (a vicous circle of fans-anger - team loses - more fans-anger ...). So it comes back  to where RL's tolerance level is.

[Mister E]

Sorry: a bit of a rambling previous post!

[Rip Van We Go Again]

"It's probably one of the toughest jobs in the Premier League.''

Get out to fuck, Duracell bollocks.