Lost Dressing Room? - Update! (Nzogbia Row?)

[Rick_avfc]

Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth.  MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC.  Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.

Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well

But MON comes with track record unlike Pardew. nevermind.  MON is gone and we shouldnt keep harping on about him

[pauliewalnuts]

I can't and won't defend his walking out, but his record while here is something that will always create debate.  £82m net over 4 years is not that great, when compared to the spending of those we were trying to catch.  And for that £82m net you have circa £50m value in three players who have since left.  The wages, of course, is another story and effectively detracts from the value of his signings as when we want to move them on nobody will pay them as much.  See Beye, Habib. 

MON is doing at Sunderland now (although these are early days still, lest we forget, Sunderland were bothering the top six not much more than a year ago when we had Bent off them) pretty much what he did when he came to us, and that is what he is good at. He's getting a team hanging around the arse end of the mid table bunch towards the top end of it.

Whatever your opinion on MON, it is hard to deny he's good at that.

The thing he struggles with, in my opinion, is moving a club on from that. To break the top four you need to know your stuff in the transfer market and play it cleverly (look at Spurs), and you need to be on top of your game tactically.

Those, in my opinion, are the two areas where MON is weakest

Being a great manager is also about leaving a legacy, and on that front he fails, leaving us as he did with a bloated but uneven squad with far too many ageing, average players on big money. That, incidentally, is exactly what he did at Celtic.

[DR PETERS]

Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth.  MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC.  Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.

Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well

But MON comes with track record unlike Pardew. nevermind.  MON is gone and we shouldnt keep harping on about him

Your right, just winds me up when people mention him. I need to get over it - lol

[lovejoy]

£82m of dross such as Young, Milner, Downing.
Regarding him walking out lets speculate for a second that he was verbally promised £xm a season to spend and that when he sat down at the start of one season that promised money wasn't available. He then states he thinks he'll struggle to push the club forward without that spend and decides his position is untenable. Both parties go to tribuneral and is settled (with MON happier of the two). This wouldn't be walking out in my opinion.

[Bottom Right 89]

Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth.  MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC.  Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.

Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well

Amazing to think that when Hughton left and Pardew was appointed, many Geordies were venting their spleens on phone ins and the internet. Villa fans would have given Pardew as good a welcome as McLeish. They must sell a lot of humble pie in the Sports Direct concourse areas, the Ashley out campaign has gone silent and the Green and Yellow anti Glazer protests at Utd - you see when all is said and done you can be the antichrist but it doesn't matter as long as you are winning football matches.

[DR PETERS]

I can't and won't defend his walking out, but his record while here is something that will always create debate.  £82m net over 4 years is not that great, when compared to the spending of those we were trying to catch.  And for that £82m net you have circa £50m value in three players who have since left.  The wages, of course, is another story and effectively detracts from the value of his signings as when we want to move them on nobody will pay them as much.  See Beye, Habib. 

MON is doing at Sunderland now (although these are early days still, lest we forget, Sunderland were bothering the top six not much more than a year ago when we had Bent off them) pretty much what he did when he came to us, and that is what he is good at. He's getting a team hanging around the arse end of the mid table bunch towards the top end of it.

Whatever your opinion on MON, it is hard to deny he's good at that.

The thing he struggles with, in my opinion, is moving a club on from that. To break the top four you need to know your stuff in the transfer market and play it cleverly (look at Spurs), and you need to be on top of your game tactically.

Those, in my opinion, are the two areas where MON is weakest

Being a great manager is also about leaving a legacy, and on that front he fails, leaving us as he did with a bloated but uneven squad with far too many ageing, average players on big money. That, incidentally, is exactly what he did at Celtic.

Nail hit firmly on the head - well said

Back to the original point, I don't think he has lost the dressing room as I am not sure he had it in the first place. Because he doesn't have the full backing of the fans, the players will always be able to find sympathy for their moaning.

[Rick_avfc]

Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth.  MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC.  Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.

Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well

But MON comes with track record unlike Pardew. nevermind.  MON is gone and we shouldnt keep harping on about him

Your right, just winds me up when people mention him. I need to get over it - lol

The only thing that winds me up is that no ex pro or journo or pundit ever comments on the fact he walked out on us 5 days before the season.  None of them ever say what a bad move that was and how could he do that to fans who showed their loyalty towards him. instead, they keep praising him. oh well.  some things will never change.

Regarding this whole dressing room unrest lark, I really dont think there is one.  Players wont always agree with the managers decisions on and off the field.  Ireland swearing at Eck is something that probably happens on a regular basis but it being highlighted even more.  Even with Nzog tweeting that for the first time he is not happy playing football, how do we really know its to do with Eck (it may well be and all the signs are there)?  How do we not know for sure if he is suffering from depression?  Its possible.  Collymore went through it.  Other players have been through it.  Im not saying he is suffering from it, all im saying that it could be a possiblity hence why his performances have been inconsistent this season. just a thought thats all.

[DR PETERS]

£82m of dross such as Young, Milner, Downing.
Regarding him walking out lets speculate for a second that he was verbally promised £xm a season to spend and that when he sat down at the start of one season that promised money wasn't available. He then states he thinks he'll struggle to push the club forward without that spend and decides his position is untenable. Both parties go to tribuneral and is settled (with MON happier of the two). This wouldn't be walking out in my opinion.

It was £82M net he actually spent £120 of which £30M was on those 3 you mentioned. The rest was on average player on big money and while we are on the subject Downing hardly set the world alight did he, remember we signed him when he was injured and after one decent season he was off.

Yes lets speculate, at the start of his reign he is told he can spend £25M a season for 5 seasons to get us in the Champions League. After 4 years he has spent that and we haven't qualified, the wage bill is out of control and half the squad never play because he wont use them, he asks for more money and is told he has had enough. Throws his toys out of the pram and then realizes how it looks so decides to take the club to court. I would call that walking out and anyone who thinks he didn't leave up the creek without a boat let a lone a paddle is very naive inho. The situation we are currently in started the day he left

Anyway as stated he has gone and thats the end of it we should all move on.

[brontebilly]

Dunne should have been given the push as soon as he gave that interview slagging off GH for upsetting his little friend stephen and claiming our recovery last season was all down to him ignoring GH instructions.. I can't believe that got past the club frankly.  But then you can get pissed and have a stand up fight with the coaching staff and not get punished currently. If they do that to a manager like GH then they won't have any qualms about AM

Players and coaching staff have fights all the time at successful clubs.

Houllier, who let us not forget was a terrible manager who treated the club like it was a small time retirement home, was a very highly paid manager who oversaw the complete collapse of our defence from one of the best the season before. The overpaid drunken tossers were the best defence Villa had in over 10 years. The revisionism on here is alarming at this stage.

For all we know Cowans was every bit in the wrong in that incident. Maybe that's
why there wasn't further action taken.

One thing MON was good at was ensuring every player on the pitch knew their role. We were superbly organized at set piece time both defensive and attacking. There has been communication problems with the 4 managers since he left. McLeish spent yesterday screaming at the players. His heart is in the right place but players should know what's expected of them before the game. Ranting and raving at everyone isn't doing anyone any favours.

If the Stephen you are referring to is the former Irish international then to use a cliche on here you are truly talking through your arse.

[QBVILLA]

Before we signed them we knew N'Zogbia was a sulky twat and Ireland a bit of a loon and McLeish was right to have a pop at them yesterday.To top it we then have that well known 100 percenter and all round model pro Collymore giving us his opinion on it.Why anyone takes any notice of him is beyond me, but the top and bottom of it is if N'Zogbia and Ireland can't take a bollocking then they shouldn't be near the first team.

[Rick_avfc]

I disagree with you about GH.  Dont forget, he, just like AM, was going through a transitional phase.  Gh would have made us a very good team as he would have bombed out the deadwood and the over paid bellends at the club who were clearly a disruption.  His scouting system is top notch and we would have seen the likes of Cabaye and Demba Ba in a villa shirt this season. 
I have a few friends who are liverpool fans and they always said he will make your team difficult to beat once he has made his signings and he will develop the youth which I think would have been true as he was using them quite a fair bit last season.  Look at what he developed at LFC - Stevie G, Owen, Carragher.  He would have done the same here with the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Baker, Gardner.
People questioned his mangerial style but why are Liverpool fans still singing his name and why are the likes of Gerrard and Owen always praising him?

[Nirog72]

You should never ignore a poo poo

[Irish villain]

This is the most important season for us since Randy took over. If we can stay up (I think we will), we could be poised for a serious advance next season. A new look defence, a more solid midfield and Bent and Gabby leading the line would see us back challenging the top six. We just need to stay up and then clear out the deadwood and bring in £20m worth of quality at the  back.

[olaftab]

he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".

No he didn't  walk out and whilst we are at it didn't snow in Birmingham on Saturday afternoon/evening either.

[QBVILLA]

I disagree with you about GH.  Dont forget, he, just like AM, was going through a transitional phase.  Gh would have made us a very good team as he would have bombed out the deadwood and the over paid bellends at the club who were clearly a disruption.  His scouting system is top notch and we would have seen the likes of Cabaye and Demba Ba in a villa shirt this season. 
I have a few friends who are liverpool fans and they always said he will make your team difficult to beat once he has made his signings and he will develop the youth which I think would have been true as he was using them quite a fair bit last season.  Look at what he developed at LFC - Stevie G, Owen, Carragher.  He would have done the same here with the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Baker, Gardner.
People questioned his mangerial style but why are Liverpool fans still singing his name and why are the likes of Gerrard and Owen always praising him?

Gerard houllier in my opinion is an arsehole.Those players you are talking about him developing were 18/19 by the time Houllier rolled into Anfield.The coaches already at Anfield were the ones who developed them.He basically ruined Michael owen as a teenager.Houllier's biggest problem has always been his ego.He likes to tell everyone it was his players that won the CL in 2005, but fails to mention that those same players finished 37 points behind the champions Chelsea.His transfer record was also diabolical.Take a look at the players he signed and the money he spunked on them.
His international career, well he managed to blame his failure on Ginola for that.Onto Lyon and he inherited a side that had won the championship four or five years on the trot and he managed to fcuk them up.Then he turns up at Villa,tells us that we belong in mid table despite the fact we'd had three successive 6th place finishes.Takes us to Anfield where he has a love in with the bin dippers and then decides that Aston Villa football club cannot compete in a FA cup tie at Man City.
I hold Houllier in the same esteem i have for Billy McNeill, difference being that old Gerard is a better bullshitter