Newcastle United v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[timeoutbigbar]

Gardner in about 10 minutes showed us the future for the side if we can hang on to him. He is composed in possession, tackles well and looks to be positive. When he swept it wide for Bannan and then got on the cross it showed how little our other midfielders do on the attacking side (I know he missed two but he's got the confidence to try things at least) and how much potential he has.

He has potential, but I feel you may be getting slightly carried away.

[villadelph]

I do wish that people would call the game as they see it not based on past history and prejudices against players.  Heskey played well and contributed to us having much more of the ball thereafter.  N'Zogbia was repeatedly losing the ball in poor areas.  Yes, Heskey has had a poor Villa career but he certainly was nothing to do with the loss today.  In the 20 minutes of the second half when he was not on the pitch, we hardly strung two passes together.

The mistake McLeish made today was not withdrawing a struggling Clark for Gardner earlier in the game.

I'm going to disagree with your point on Heskey. In my opinion, we (McLeish included) need to use our experiential knowledge and understand that the inclusion of Heskey in the side isn't going to do much except increase turnovers on inept passes and lose the only width we had in the game. It's not Heskey's decision to come on, and we can't fault him for that. The manager calls his name and tells him his job.

Darren Bent was never going to score in the last 30 minutes without a winger on the field. All we do is preach about how he gets awful service, and when the time is necessary for a goal we are booting the ball up the middle in hopes that fucking EMILE HESKEY is going to retain it. Come on, we're better than that.. surely.

[ez]

I think in the last few games teams are pressurising our back 4 when they are in possession in our own half.  They know we will hoof it eventually.

[villadelph]

via Timothy Abraham, "Alex McLeish reluctant to talk about the substitution of Ireland. Claimed it was because he was carrying an ankle injury not verbals."

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

I'm sure I've just seen Villa play some good football in that match and create some good chances, but you'd never know it from the reaction most people.

Why can't you point out the good bits as much as you do the bad bits???

Because the bad bits cost us the game. They outweigh the good and the result is all that matters.

Exactly. The results at the end of the season don't read: Newcastle 2 Aston Villa 1 (but Villa had some good bits).

So because there were a few more bad moments than good then you deem the good not worthy of mentioning? Almost as bizarre as Heskey coming on that is.

But you said that folk weren't pointing out the good bits as much as the bad bits. I'd say that's because the bad bits cost us. Your Heskey point proves it, that was a crap sub and a lot of people think it may have cost us.

OK, maybe I should've made it clearer that I didn't think a lot of people made any points about our good play.

As for you continuation on this, the result reads: Newcastle 2 Aston Villa 1, so then why discuss it further? Presumably there's no need for a post-match thread?

[PaulWinch again]

As a youngster coming through the academy system here Gardner will get a lot of support.  Today he was poor when he came on and wasted two good chances.  As much as he deserves praise when he does well he isn't exempt from criticism when hes poor, and today I thought he was poor.

Well yes he muffed his first chance, and didn't quite get enough on the header, but in both chances he made fantastic runs that none of our other midfielders except Ireland would make.

He also passed the ball well and added tempo to our game. He was far from poor.

Look to the joke of a defense for poor.

Agreed and he was very unlucky with the header.

[timeoutbigbar]

As a youngster coming through the academy system here Gardner will get a lot of support.  Today he was poor when he came on and wasted two good chances.  As much as he deserves praise when he does well he isn't exempt from criticism when hes poor, and today I thought he was poor.

Well yes he muffed his first chance, and didn't quite get enough on the header, but in both chances he made fantastic runs that none of our other midfielders except Ireland would make.

He also passed the ball well and added tempo to our game. He was far from poor.

Look to the joke of a defense for poor.

I accept that, but if you're good enough to play first team football, you should be good enough to convert most of the chances you get.  I'm not saying Gardner isn't good enough, all i'm saying is that I wasn't impressed by him today.  I'm far more concerned with McLeish's substitution of N'zogbia for Heskey.

[Nirog72]

Re; Gardner - my glass is half full, not half empty, that's all.

[villadelph]

As a youngster coming through the academy system here Gardner will get a lot of support.  Today he was poor when he came on and wasted two good chances.  As much as he deserves praise when he does well he isn't exempt from criticism when hes poor, and today I thought he was poor.

Well yes he muffed his first chance, and didn't quite get enough on the header, but in both chances he made fantastic runs that none of our other midfielders except Ireland would make.

He also passed the ball well and added tempo to our game. He was far from poor.

Look to the joke of a defense for poor.

Agreed and he was very unlucky with the header.

At least he's working to get his chances. The finishing will come, it is the creative mindset to put yourself in that opportunity that matters.

[Olof's Beard]

I do wish that people would call the game as they see it not based on past history and prejudices against players.  Heskey played well and contributed to us having much more of the ball thereafter.  N'Zogbia was repeatedly losing the ball in poor areas.  Yes, Heskey has had a poor Villa career but he certainly was nothing to do with the loss today.  In the 20 minutes of the second half when he was not on the pitch, we hardly strung two passes together.

The mistake McLeish made today was not withdrawing a struggling Clark for Gardner earlier in the game.

I'm going to disagree with your point on Heskey. In my opinion, we (McLeish included) need to use our experiential knowledge and understand that the inclusion of Heskey in the side isn't going to do much except increase turnovers on inept passes and lose the only width we had in the game. It's not Heskey's decision to come on, and we can't fault him for that. The manager calls his name and tells him his job.

Darren Bent was never going to score in the last 30 minutes without a winger on the field. All we do is preach about how he gets awful service, and when the time is necessary for a goal we are booting the ball up the middle in hopes that fucking EMILE HESKEY is going to retain it. Come on, we're better than that.. surely.

We weren't getting anywhere near their goal when N'Zogbia was on and he kept losing the ball.  Bent was much more involved in the game (and we went much closer to scoring as a team) after Heskey came on.

[paulcomben]

Can someone sum up McLeish's post-match interview when its on?

I can do that before it's on. Blah blah unlucky blah blah effort blah blah Krul's saves. Tomorrow, Gardner will be on the OS saying the boys want to do better next time, because he is the youngest and newest in the team.

[Matt Collins]

Gardner definitely wasn't poor, nor did he demonstrate he's definitely the future of the side.

He added physical presence and good running, and showed plenty of promise. He impacted the game more in 10 minutes than Clark did in 80.

If he'd stuck either of his two excellent chances away I'd be getting carried away. But he didn't, so I'd classify my mood on him as 'encouraged'.

[Mike Jeffries]

Unlucky to lose, but that doesn't fit a lot of people's script so I'm clearly making it up.  Tim Krull has anything other than his (Now usual) fine game and that's a win not a defeat, such fine lines in such a desperately average division.

[Rigadon]

Gardner definitely wasn't poor, nor did he demonstrate he's definitely the future of the side.

He added physical presence and good running, and showed plenty of promise. He impacted the game more in 10 minutes than Clark did in 80.

If he'd stuck either of his two excellent chances away I'd be getting carried away. But he didn't, so I'd classify my mood on him as 'encouraged'.

And didn't come on until the 84th minute!  Very harsh to judge a performance on 8 or so minutes. 

[villadelph]

I do wish that people would call the game as they see it not based on past history and prejudices against players.  Heskey played well and contributed to us having much more of the ball thereafter.  N'Zogbia was repeatedly losing the ball in poor areas.  Yes, Heskey has had a poor Villa career but he certainly was nothing to do with the loss today.  In the 20 minutes of the second half when he was not on the pitch, we hardly strung two passes together.

The mistake McLeish made today was not withdrawing a struggling Clark for Gardner earlier in the game.

I'm going to disagree with your point on Heskey. In my opinion, we (McLeish included) need to use our experiential knowledge and understand that the inclusion of Heskey in the side isn't going to do much except increase turnovers on inept passes and lose the only width we had in the game. It's not Heskey's decision to come on, and we can't fault him for that. The manager calls his name and tells him his job.

Darren Bent was never going to score in the last 30 minutes without a winger on the field. All we do is preach about how he gets awful service, and when the time is necessary for a goal we are booting the ball up the middle in hopes that fucking EMILE HESKEY is going to retain it. Come on, we're better than that.. surely.

We weren't getting anywhere near their goal when N'Zogbia was on and he kept losing the ball.  Bent was much more involved in the game (and we went much closer to scoring as a team) after Heskey came on.

We had no width! Absolutely none. You can't sacrifice both wings to clog the ball up the middle. You have to keep the defense honest and have some sort of threat to space them out. Whether it is the threat of a through ball to a running-on winger or the pace of the player with the ball at his feet, it is FAR more valuable than a 46 year old can't hack it in the middle of the park.