Safe standing - update

[cdbearsfan]

The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in.

22 years and still the lie is perpetuated. How many more times does it have to be disproved?

It might not be true but it is true that thousands of morons turned up for the 2007 Champions League Final in Athens without tickets with the intention of forcing their way in. If you'd think one club would never do that, it would be Liverpool.

[Dr Butler]

Lower Holte

I stand at practically every home game, I have a brick wall behind me so I'm not getting in the way of anyones view, the stewards used to come up ask us to sit but we all still stand.

I love standing as I can generally move about keeping warm and the only time I sit in the ground is at half time to read my H&V bought of Percy.

UTV
The Doc

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches

Obviously I was not at Hillborough that day, but I was at a Wolves v Liverpool game in the 1970s - a night match where Liverpool won the title. Because of the enormous crowds that turned up, you were simply crushed all together in the street outside the South Bank terrace. The next thing the pressure eased a little as we were carried in the crowds through a broken down exit gate to eventually finding ourselves on the terracing. If circumstances had so conspired, maybe that could have turned into a Hillsborough, as could a number of games through those years. I have no idea to this day if the gate was smashed down or someone opened it to ease the pressure. What I do know is it was nothing about drunkeness, nothing about hooliganism or jumping turnstiles, or turning up ticketless as such ( it would have been pay on the gate as was usual for terracing at nearly all league games everywhere). That night was all about  too many people turning up for a pay on the gate game and trying to get into an inadequete unsafe facility which just about coped as much through luck than judgement. I believe a similar scenario occurred at a Spurs v Arsenal game in the 1970s when Arsenal won the title at White Hart Lane. The luck eventually ran out at Hillsborough.   

[Drummond]

Its a good idea,  we are more likely to stay awake

Though there's further to fall when we nod off.

[DB]

The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.

 

Every gig I go to has people standing. 

True, but that's dancing / moshing etc. Football you don't need to stand to create an atmosphere, but evidence says otherwise I suppose.

[Dave Cooper please]

The Taylor Report said that supporters would soon get used to sitting. Instead, the desire to stand has grown. A figure of 91.5% support shows that.

Is that support for people to be given the choice, or that 91.5% actually want to stand? I'd find it hard to believe the latter.

As (my estimate) perhaps only 15% of any ground will actually be converted to terracing then it won't take many of that 91.5% to make it viable.

[Drummond]

If a standing area can be created safely and people want to stand, then I don't see the problem. If people don't want to stand they don't have to and it shoudl make the stewards' jobs a little easier. Those that won't sit have somewhere to go.

[Dave Cooper please]

The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.

 

Every gig I go to has people standing. 

True, but that's dancing / moshing etc. Football you don't need to stand to create an atmosphere, but evidence says otherwise I suppose.

My moshing days are a long time over but I still stand at gigs.

Anyway, regardless of that, even if it is just football where people want to stand, if there is a safe way for them to do so and those that wish to sit can do so as well then what's the problem if clubs want to introduce it?

[Rico]

The problem with the Taylor report is that it makes the argument that all standing was unsafe. Agreed there were many terraces that were in need of improvement and better control. But having stood on the Holte since the mid 70s to the last day of the Holte can someone please tell me exactly how it was unsafe? It was three separate tiers divided by a huge gangway, so a crowd surge in one area could not affect another. To me the Taylor report went too far and for me part of the magic of Villa park died.

And for all the fans who never got to stand on the famous Holte I feel sorry for you, because the current Holte end pails into insignificance compared to the original, and what a daunting site it was to visiting teams. It really was the twelth man!

[The Laughing Policeman]

Last night the Brigada lads had a paper mill that they held up before kick off last night.
It read "No More Bruised Shins Bring Back Standing."
As soon as there's a photo available I'll link to it. I believe that they intend to display it at every home game.

[seanthevillan]

The problem with the Taylor report is that it makes the argument that all standing was unsafe.

That Taylor Report actually stated the opposite of this - that standing isn't intrinsically unsafe. Its been a while since I read it but I'm sure this is true.

[E I Adio]

The problem with the Taylor report is that it makes the argument that all standing was unsafe. Agreed there were many terraces that were in need of improvement and better control. But having stood on the Holte since the mid 70s to the last day of the Holte can someone please tell me exactly how it was unsafe? It was three separate tiers divided by a huge gangway, so a crowd surge in one area could not affect another. To me the Taylor report went too far and for me part of the magic of Villa park died.

And for all the fans who never got to stand on the famous Holte I feel sorry for you, because the current Holte end pails into insignificance compared to the original, and what a daunting site it was to visiting teams. It really was the twelth man!

Agree with you regarding the awesomeness of the old Holte End, but there were times when it certainly wasn't safe. The biggest problem was that it had quite wide gangways running from top to bottom in which people stood on the rare occasions when it was packed.  I can recall two FA Cup SF's in the sixties when I was standing in the gangway and was involuntarily swept 20 metres down the gangway every time something exciting happened on the pitch. At the time (as a youth) I looked on it as little more that an inconvenience, but with hindsight, I shudder when I think about it.

[DB]

The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.

 

Every gig I go to has people standing. 

True, but that's dancing / moshing etc. Football you don't need to stand to create an atmosphere, but evidence says otherwise I suppose.

My moshing days are a long time over but I still stand at gigs.

Anyway, regardless of that, even if it is just football where people want to stand, if there is a safe way for them to do so and those that wish to sit can do so as well then what's the problem if clubs want to introduce it?

Indded.
I am going to Download this summer, and I'll protest if they are all standing....and if the music is too loud. I'm too old...

[MonsXI]

This is the safe standing they are looking at north of the border

[Duncan Shaw]

They could put that in at the Sty.....