Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on January 17, 2012, 11:08:06 AM
-
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2012/01/17/aston-villa-set-to-bring-back-terrace-standing-area-at-villa-park-97319-30138906/
-
Whats the chances of govt. and/or league allowing this? Its probably miles away from happening but a nice piece of news amongst all the negativity and fantastic that Villa are taking the lead.
-
Slim to none, but you never know. Keep pushing against a door long enough and it might open.
-
Great idea.
-
It might im;prove the atmosphere. That's the corner where Lions Club members usually sit right?
-
Fair play and good luck to us and everyone who has campaigned. As Dave (and Pharoal Monch) says, keep on pushing.
-
It might im;prove the atmosphere. That's the corner where Lions Club members usually sit right?
No, I believe that they are at the left side of The Trinity looking at the pitch (The Tunnel area).
Fair play to Villa for pioneering this approach back in Englands Top-flight
-
If this gets pushed enough, it could be the start of something great. Really hope we can go ahead with it, the trial goes well and it can spread across the country.
-
I presume it means extending/improving the North Stand is on the back burner for a while.
-
It might im;prove the atmosphere. That's the corner where Lions Club members usually sit right?
No, I believe that they are at the left side of The Trinity looking at the pitch (The Tunnel area).
Fair play to Villa for pioneering this approach back in Englands Top-flight
Funny as not to long ago the released a statement saying they did not recognise the term safe standing. Perhaps just desperate to get more people through the door for their £.
-
Great news. Hopefully this actually happens.
-
This debate is slowly but surely moving up both the political and football authorities agendas. I think that if the proposed trials go ahead in Scotland and are successful then the pressure for a similar trial in England will increase.
It isn't going to happen in the next two or three years. But as Dave says keep pushing at a slightly open door and eventually it will swing open.
The more this is discussed on fans forums the more notice will be taken of it. We all know that clubs monitor and take note of the discussions held on their fans forums and this is one way of helping to keep the idea moving ahead.
-
Over on the darkside 'villa talk' a guy had a meeting with faulkner on saturday and this idea was on the agenda.
-
I hope this is true.
-
Fair play to them for the idea and lets hope it comes off.
-
It might im;prove the atmosphere. That's the corner where Lions Club members usually sit right?
No, I believe that they are at the left side of The Trinity looking at the pitch (The Tunnel area).
Fair play to Villa for pioneering this approach back in Englands Top-flight
Funny as not to long ago the released a statement saying they did not recognise the term safe standing. Perhaps just desperate to get more people through the door for their £.
Or perhaps they're doing something supporters want. 'Listening,' I believe it's called.
-
You'll probably find it would cost more to stand than sit if it came back. I like the idea though.
-
Sounds like the club have approached this sensibly with a small test area. Would be perfect for the Brigada guys.
-
Sounds like the club have approached this sensibly with a small test area. Would be perfect for the Brigada guys.
Not only that, they're floating the idea out gradually- talking to supporters, then SCG, now going public. It's a good way of gauging public reaction without trying to force anyone's hand.
-
It can't do any harm bringing a safe standing area back for those who want to stand.
-
Free coach travel to Arsenal, now leading the way with this pioneering proposal.
Thats two pats on the back for the running of the club off the pitch this week.
-
It might im;prove the atmosphere. That's the corner where Lions Club members usually sit right?
No, I believe that they are at the left side of The Trinity looking at the pitch (The Tunnel area).
Fair play to Villa for pioneering this approach back in Englands Top-flight
Funny as not to long ago the released a statement saying they did not recognise the term safe standing. Perhaps just desperate to get more people through the door for their £.
Or perhaps they're doing something supporters want. 'Listening,' I believe it's called.
Well they weren't listening initially as was stated in their reply for one of the early SCG. Perhaps something has twisted their arm. Only a good thing of course, just think it has more to do with £ TBH.
-
It might im;prove the atmosphere. That's the corner where Lions Club members usually sit right?
No, I believe that they are at the left side of The Trinity looking at the pitch (The Tunnel area).
Fair play to Villa for pioneering this approach back in Englands Top-flight
Funny as not to long ago the released a statement saying they did not recognise the term safe standing. Perhaps just desperate to get more people through the door for their £.
Or perhaps they're doing something supporters want. 'Listening,' I believe it's called.
Well they weren't listening initially as was stated in their reply for one of the early SCG. Perhaps something has twisted their arm. Only a good thing of course, just think it has more to do with £ TBH.
The SPL development has certainly re-opened the debate and technology continues to evolve. You can't complain when they don't listen to an argument then say it's only about getting more money from us when they do.
-
It might im;prove the atmosphere. That's the corner where Lions Club members usually sit right?
No, I believe that they are at the left side of The Trinity looking at the pitch (The Tunnel area).
Fair play to Villa for pioneering this approach back in Englands Top-flight
Funny as not to long ago the released a statement saying they did not recognise the term safe standing. Perhaps just desperate to get more people through the door for their £.
Or perhaps they're doing something supporters want. 'Listening,' I believe it's called.
Well they weren't listening initially as was stated in their reply for one of the early SCG. Perhaps something has twisted their arm. Only a good thing of course, just think it has more to do with £ TBH.
The SPL development has certainly re-opened the debate and technology continues to evolve. You can't complain when they don't listen to an argument then say it's only about getting more money from us when they do.
Just a shame that I feel their motives are not the same as that of the fans for wanting Safe Standing. But Like I said its only a good thing and I hope they realise how much of an effect it can have and really get behind it to make a much larger standing area. Well done Villa for trying to pioneer this.
-
I know people who never had the chance to stand up to watch a game at VP who would start going again for the novelty factor alone initially. Who knows, if that led to a better atmosphere, cheaper tickets, and a better match day experience, it could spiral into something really good.
-
I know people who never had the chance to stand up to watch a game at VP who would start going again for the novelty factor alone initially. Who knows, if that led to a better atmosphere, cheaper tickets, and a better match day experience, it could spiral into something really good.
Definately agree. I doubt that the Lower Holte could every be converted as it is designed for its current capacity and at times the concourse area struggles with that. They will need to incorporate it into a new stand
-
How to sell Newspapers on a really really slow newsday and column inches to fill:
Mat Kendrick writes 'Aston Villa set to introduce "Safe standing area" at Villa Park'.
Read further down as the text gets smaller and the words longer and we get "Aston Villa are 'EXPLORING' the possibility of introducing safe standing area at Villa Park.
Put that along with 'exploring' the possibility of signing Messi along with 'exploring' the possibility of employing a manager who has relegated a team twice in recent memory - oh no we did that one.
'Discussions are at a formative stage' - a bit like two 14 year old boys listing all the popstar girls they would like to sleep with. Or having in your pocket at a press conference the list of names that you SAY are trying to sign while trying to hold back supporter fury on transfer dithering.
The Chief Executive Paul Faulkner has earmarked the corner of Villa Park for a standing area (probably where Herecules the Lion would not be within receiving distance of coins, programmes and half heated pies).
Oh wait theres more!
Igniting the nostalgic flame once again Mighty Mat continues 'It would be at least the 2013-14 season (or even later) before fans would be allowed to stand at Villa Park' who has obviously never looked across to the left side section in the upper & lower Ellis during a match. Only to douse it in spittle again with 'For Villa's scheme to go ahead, it would require a LAW change. Damn that pesky statute!
'Villa Bosses hope the intended project would boost the atmosphere at the stadium and tempt back some stay-away supporters' who might not care whether they are standing or sitting to see Hutton place another hopeless punt, Warnock head into his own goal, a midfield that cant pass, a disinterested record signing and unimaginitive tactics from the manager.
The SPL - Scottish Premier League has apparently given its clubs permission to have safe-standing areas within their stadiums. Rumours that the SPL have spoken to James Cameron's special effects team to replicate 3D 'virtual supporters' for use during the highlights programme featuring the non-old firm clubs are unsubstantiated.
Well whuppee doo.
-
Mods, would it be possible to add a poll to this thread please?
Q1. Would you be happy to see a Safe Standing area at Villa Park?
Q2. If there was a Safe Standing area would you use it?
-
I know people who never had the chance to stand up to watch a game at VP who would start going again for the novelty factor alone initially. Who knows, if that led to a better atmosphere, cheaper tickets, and a better match day experience, it could spiral into something really good.
Definately agree. I doubt that the Lower Holte could every be converted as it is designed for its current capacity and at times the concourse area struggles with that. They will need to incorporate it into a new stand
Yep - knock down the North Stand and replace it with a replica of that massive terrace behind the goal at Dortmund - sorted.
-
I know people who never had the chance to stand up to watch a game at VP who would start going again for the novelty factor alone initially. Who knows, if that led to a better atmosphere, cheaper tickets, and a better match day experience, it could spiral into something really good.
Definately agree. I doubt that the Lower Holte could every be converted as it is designed for its current capacity and at times the concourse area struggles with that. They will need to incorporate it into a new stand
Yep - knock down the North Stand and replace it with a replica of that massive terrace behind the goal at Dortmund - sorted.
1) Argue and win the case with the authorities and clear all the bureaucratic hurdles.
2) Run a pilot scheme as suggested in a section of the lower Holte.
3) If successful, build it Dortmund style to replace the North stand.
Lets see the Villa lead the way.
-
Mods, would it be possible to add a poll to this thread please?
Q1. Would you be happy to see a Safe Standing area at Villa Park?
Q2. If there was a Safe Standing area would you use it?
yes.yes.if we can get 35k on a regular basis when we are not doing so well sitting down with no atmosphere with rip off prices ,50k should be obtainable with cheaper standing tickets and an improved atmosphere,turning aston villa once again into a powerhouse of world football.
-
I know people who never had the chance to stand up to watch a game at VP who would start going again for the novelty factor alone initially. Who knows, if that led to a better atmosphere, cheaper tickets, and a better match day experience, it could spiral into something really good.
Definately agree. I doubt that the Lower Holte could every be converted as it is designed for its current capacity and at times the concourse area struggles with that. They will need to incorporate it into a new stand
Yep - knock down the North Stand and replace it with a replica of that massive terrace behind the goal at Dortmund - sorted.
1) Argue and win the case with the authorities and clear all the bureaucratic hurdles.
2) Run a pilot scheme as suggested in a section of the lower Holte.
3) If successful, build it Dortmund style to replace the North stand.
Lets see the Villa lead the way.
The sudtribune (tried to post a picture)?
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9303/dortmundd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40/dortmundd.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
A 25,000 terrace? Twice as big as the Holte - well I'd love to see Villa Park as a full 60,000 capacity stadium but lets face it, its not going to happen.
These safe-standing zones might be a bit disappointing for anyone who used to stand on a terrace in an English ground. I've been to a couple in Germany and, apart from Union Berlin's ground, you can't fit more than two rows in them at a time.
At the same time, though, they are unequivocably safe, and you get to stand with your mates, move around if you want etc etc. Might also lead to more people getting into the ground earlier to get a decent spot and help the atmosphere that way. If one ground does it well I'm sure a lot of others will follow.
-
Its a good idea, we are more likely to stay awake
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
-
I'd imagine that the Holte Lower would be the obvious place to have a standing area. As DW pointed out earlier, the North Stand Lower is too close to the away fans and any attempt to lacate it there would probably be met with objections from the police.
-
The thing is the lower north is a standing terrace with seats on it.People stand there already as the sloping is too shallow.
-
I would welcome safe standing at Villa Park. I imagine the tickets for that section will be very in demand.
-
At the SCG Paul Faulkner brought it to the debate and asked the meeting for their views.
At previous SCGs it has been brought by supporters. I brought detailed arguments for it at one of the first SCGs, but knowing the law, I was only asking for any re-builds to be "future-proofed" for safe standing, not to bring standing back as such. (It wasn't reported like that on the published questions/answers). However, they did invite me back in with FSF reps for a more detailed chat.
They have always taken this issue seriously and been prepared to think about it. Villa have always indicated that they would consider safe standing if the law changed, but their stance appears to have now moved to a pro-active one, where they actually wish to campaign for it. They were keen to gather all the arguments for safe standing and take them forward.
I don't think Villa particularly wanted to go to the press with it at this stage as there are no direct quotes, but someone at the meeting obviously thought the press would like the story. Still - they must have been prepared for this to happen, it is pretty much a public meeting and no-one is sworn to secrecy.
Even Villa Park security apparently now say they would prefer standing to be allowed because they believe "persistent standing" is less safe, and causes unnecessary conflict with supporters.
It was also stated that, as rail seating offers a third more capacity than the same area with the seats down, prices would be reduced accordingly. The club hope that this will attract younger fans who have been priced out.
They say that they would ask to trial a small area of about 500, and then ask to expand it if allowed. That corner is chosen because it's position does not block the view of adjacent seated fans.
It will take time, but the FSF have always said they need one club to raise their head above the parapet, and others will follow. They are delighted with this hitting the press today and will be looking to build on it. I'm really pleased to see Villa trying to take a lead on this - even if another club gets there before us, we would still be the ones who were brave enough to take the lead in trying to make this happen.
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
-
Its a great Idea
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
-
As much as I loved to stand on the Holte, the facilities were fucking awful compared to what people are used to these days.
I have no problem with going back to those times to some degree but, if you didn't experience it or don't remember, you wouldn't be sitting down to a pie and a pint watching sky sports, that's for sure.
On safe standing though, it makes sense and I would welcome it.
-
I know people who never had the chance to stand up to watch a game at VP who would start going again for the novelty factor alone initially. Who knows, if that led to a better atmosphere, cheaper tickets, and a better match day experience, it could spiral into something really good.
Definately agree. I doubt that the Lower Holte could every be converted as it is designed for its current capacity and at times the concourse area struggles with that. They will need to incorporate it into a new stand
Yep - knock down the North Stand and replace it with a replica of that massive terrace behind the goal at Dortmund - sorted.
1) Argue and win the case with the authorities and clear all the bureaucratic hurdles.
2) Run a pilot scheme as suggested in a section of the lower Holte.
3) If successful, build it Dortmund style to replace the North stand.
Lets see the Villa lead the way.
The sudtribune (tried to post a picture)?
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9303/dortmundd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40/dortmundd.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
A 25,000 terrace? Twice as big as the Holte - well I'd love to see Villa Park as a full 60,000 capacity stadium but lets face it, its not going to happen.
These safe-standing zones might be a bit disappointing for anyone who used to stand on a terrace in an English ground. I've been to a couple in Germany and, apart from Union Berlin's ground, you can't fit more than two rows in them at a time.
At the same time, though, they are unequivocably safe, and you get to stand with your mates, move around if you want etc etc. Might also lead to more people getting into the ground earlier to get a decent spot and help the atmosphere that way. If one ground does it well I'm sure a lot of others will follow.
Thats a photo from the sudtribune (http://physos.net/~physos/images/blog_images/bvb09_2.jpg)
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
It's likely the Holte would have to come down again (or at least undergo extensive refurbishment) as the gradient of the stand is different for seating and standing, which would require changing not only the stand but the concourse underneath. This is why they're probably considering the corner between the Holte and the Trinity first, before expanding to the North Stand, as this would only cause minor disruptions.
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
It was awesome:
(http://www.midlandsmemorabilia.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/andy-lochhead-chico-hamilton-pat-mcmahon-aston-villa-manchester-city-francis-lee-holte-end-terrace.jpg)
-
28,001 when I was there and it was full (used to sneak in-well we wuz poor)!
-
Cracking picture, adrenachrome. On my titchy screen, I can only make out Chico Hamilton and Andy Lochhead, which would date the pic to between 1970 and 1973 I think.
-
Cracking picture, adrenachrome. On my titchy screen, I can only make out Chico Hamilton and Andy Lochhead, which would date the pic to between 1970 and 1973 I think.
It looks like it's the Bournemouth game - Feb 1972 and 48,000. I think the other player is Pat McMahon.
-
Cracking picture, adrenachrome. On my titchy screen, I can only make out Chico Hamilton and Andy Lochhead, which would date the pic to between 1970 and 1973 I think.
It looks like it's the Bournemouth game - Feb 1972 and 48,000. I think the other player is Pat McMahon.
I reckon you are right. It is Pat McMahon and for those of you looking at the picture in Black and White, Bournemouth are in the Green and Black striped shirts.
The link for the picture http://www.midlandsmemorabilia.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/andy-lochhead-chico-hamilton-pat-mcmahon-aston-villa-manchester-city-francis-lee-holte-end-terrace.jpg suggests this is the Charity Shield game against Manchester City played 5/8/72, however that would be wrong as Chico Hamilton did not play in that whereas Hamilton, Lochhead, and McMahon all played against Bournemouth.
-
Agreed that is Bournemouth - clearly a winter pitch
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
It's likely the Holte would have to come down again (or at least undergo extensive refurbishment) as the gradient of the stand is different for seating and standing, which would require changing not only the stand but the concourse underneath. This is why they're probably considering the corner between the Holte and the Trinity first, before expanding to the North Stand, as this would only cause minor disruptions.
I'm not sure whether that's the same for the rail seating used for safe standing. It has to convert to seating for Euro games, and when converted for standing pretty much only one row of people stand between each set of rails. I'm not sure if the Holte is too steep for a fairly straightforward conversion in that style. There'd be a rail at the equivelent of every current row of seating so the risk of tumbling would actually be less than it is now. The thing I am less sure about is the structural load for the increased capacity.
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
As a History buff I knew that. I chose the 19,000 figure to compare with its last days but if anything you reinforce my point! Surely concourse shouldn't be an issue if the old stand could handle that.
-
As a History buff I knew that. I chose the 19,000 figure to compare with its last days but if anything you reinforce my point! Surely concourse shouldn't be an issue if the old stand could handle that.
It's a completely new stand, so the only comparison would be with the current capacity.
-
Guardian article by David Conn: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/19/villa-park-terraces
-
I'm really impressed at the amount of coverage this has had. Neil Moxley wrote a good piece in the Mail yesterday as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2088004/Aston-Villa-want-safe-standing-area-Villa-Park.html
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
It was awesome:
(http://www.midlandsmemorabilia.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/andy-lochhead-chico-hamilton-pat-mcmahon-aston-villa-manchester-city-francis-lee-holte-end-terrace.jpg)
Lucky enough to have a chat with Ken McNaught two seasons ago. He said running out towards the Holte with 25,000 plus shouting for you sent shivers down his spine every time.
I miss standing and would welcome a "safe standing" area but I doubt if it will be at the back of the Holte, which is where it should be!!!
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
It's likely the Holte would have to come down again (or at least undergo extensive refurbishment) as the gradient of the stand is different for seating and standing, which would require changing not only the stand but the concourse underneath. This is why they're probably considering the corner between the Holte and the Trinity first, before expanding to the North Stand, as this would only cause minor disruptions.
I'm not sure whether that's the same for the rail seating used for safe standing. It has to convert to seating for Euro games, and when converted for standing pretty much only one row of people stand between each set of rails. I'm not sure if the Holte is too steep for a fairly straightforward conversion in that style. There'd be a rail at the equivelent of every current row of seating so the risk of tumbling would actually be less than it is now. The thing I am less sure about is the structural load for the increased capacity.
It has to convert to seating for Euro game's ?????
-
If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be that big of a job.
It would.
Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.
Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000
It's likely the Holte would have to come down again (or at least undergo extensive refurbishment) as the gradient of the stand is different for seating and standing, which would require changing not only the stand but the concourse underneath. This is why they're probably considering the corner between the Holte and the Trinity first, before expanding to the North Stand, as this would only cause minor disruptions.
I'm not sure whether that's the same for the rail seating used for safe standing. It has to convert to seating for Euro games, and when converted for standing pretty much only one row of people stand between each set of rails. I'm not sure if the Holte is too steep for a fairly straightforward conversion in that style. There'd be a rail at the equivelent of every current row of seating so the risk of tumbling would actually be less than it is now. The thing I am less sure about is the structural load for the increased capacity.
It has to convert to seating for Euro game's ?????
Yes , UEFA don't allow it
-
I have always considered the Holte End as the heart of Villa Park. Would people be happy with the lower North Stand being an all standing end? I think it was designed for standing originally so that should not be a problem making the change, but it doesn't seem right to me.
That's not saying I would not like it to happen but it would feel like the whole ground was the wrong way round.
-
I dont understand why 10 ppl have voted against this. Bizarre.
edit: Just read that article...
Commentary by Margaret Aspinall chairwoman of the Hillsborough Families Support Group
There is no place for standing in modern football and I cannot comprehend why people want to go back to how it was in the 1980s.
It is both insulting and insensitive to suggest that it is a good idea, particularly knowing there has never been any accountability for what happened at Hillsborough in April 1989.
I have had the argument about what happens in Germany thrown at me before, when people have raised the idea about bringing back standing in England.
Well, what people in another country do is their own affair.
We have had two tragedies at grounds with standing terraces in Great Britain - 96 football fans never returned home from Hillsborough, 66 lives were lost at Ibrox.
When I talk about never bringing standing back to football grounds here, I am thinking about my children and grandchildren going to games.
They should never be put in a position of how it was in the 1980s.
With all due respect to those that lost their lives (and their friends and families) in those disasters, Margaret Aspinall clearly hasnt got a clue what shes talking about if she thinks an introduction of "safe standing" would be in anyway a throw back to the 1980s. It is neither insulting nor insensitive to think such measures would be a good idea, and the fact that it has been proved to be safe and successful in other countries is valid proof that it can work in modern society and modern day football.
I sincerely hope groups or individuals do not campaign against the scheme on the basis of what has happened in completely different situations in the past.
-
She's clearly talking bollocks.
It's like banning all cruises because of what happened in Italy and on the Titanic. Well not exactly like that, but you get the point.
No one wants it to be like the 80s again, people want the choice to be able to stand, safely. How trying to come up with a plan to organise safe standing is insulting and insensitive is beyond me.
-
I guess if your son or daughter was crushed to death, and the truth about how it happened was covered up for decades, your anger might spill over into some fairly irrational areas too. I completely disagree with what she is saying, but totally respect her right to her opinion. The people who are in the wrong are those that seek to use these views as justification.
The authorities are happy to use Hillsborough (and sensitivity to the families) as an excuse to not consider safe standing, yet happily put Man United fans behind nets when they played Man City the other week. I found this a really disturbing move in a direction we really don't want to go again. I don't think anyone asked the Hillsborough families what they thought of that. The powers that be pick and choose what they remember about Hillsborough, and will be able to continue to do so until justice is done and people are allowed to know the full truth about that day.
-
To be honest, I'm surprised at all that there's even an appetite for safe standing.
The Holte End terrace went (at the same time as all the last remaining ones in the top flight) in 1994. I was relatively young back then and was happy to stand, but eighteen years of being told to take a seat probably means I won't go back to standing.
Meanwhile, a whole generation of support has grown-up knowing nothing but all-seater venues. Are they really going to be willing to stand?
-
To be honest, I'm surprised at all that there's even an appetite for safe standing.
The Holte End terrace went (at the same time as all the last remaining ones in the top flight) in 1994. I was relatively young back then and was happy to stand, but eighteen years of being told to take a seat probably means I won't go back to standing.
Meanwhile, a whole generation of support has grown-up knowing nothing but all-seater venues. Are they really going to be willing to stand?
Thing is Chris,its warmer,its cheaper,its louder,you can stand with your mates instead of trying to book tickets together,free dom of choice would be ideal
-
It will be season tickets only for standing areas I would guess.
-
Spurious arguement from Ms Aspinall. Ibrox happened on the steps leaving the stadium (without getting into details) and could arguably have happened if people were leaving seats. Hillsborough was just terrible. But caused by innefficient turnstiles, creating frustration and a gate being opened allowing the poor devils into an already packed terrace - the crowd went the wrong way because of lack of direction. Anyway the real crime was putting up those bloody fences.
The German model assigns tickets in line with the number of 'safe' seats so overcrowding cannot happen.
Furthermore, like a lots of blokes on this site a lot of my mis-spent youth saw me standing in the Holte and scores of other grounds. I remember that there was a sense of self and mutual protection and awareness of needing to be sensible. Kids passed overhead to the front, girls standing against the barrier with the boy friend behind, arms around her and on the barrier. Stuff like that.
Anyway we survived with the Holte holding 29,000 in games like the Man U LC Semi December 1970 without incident.
But none of that is relevent Ms. Aspinall because 'safe' standing has allocated places as I say. It is very different to then but not much different to the current situation where many fans stand for the whole game in front of their seats anyway! Some Clubs seem to allow it.
Tell you what, here is an idea and it won't cost a penny, give the HI Viz jobsworths a day off and allow the fans to stand in one assigned part of the ground with the current seating -as a trial. Then put the space efficient folding 'safe' seats in later.
-
Cracking picture, adrenachrome. On my titchy screen, I can only make out Chico Hamilton and Andy Lochhead, which would date the pic to between 1970 and 1973 I think.
It looks like it's the Bournemouth game - Feb 1972 and 48,000. I think the other player is Pat McMahon.
I reckon you are right. It is Pat McMahon and for those of you looking at the picture in Black and White, Bournemouth are in the Green and Black striped shirts.
The link for the picture http://www.midlandsmemorabilia.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/andy-lochhead-chico-hamilton-pat-mcmahon-aston-villa-manchester-city-francis-lee-holte-end-terrace.jpg suggests this is the Charity Shield game against Manchester City played 5/8/72, however that would be wrong as Chico Hamilton did not play in that whereas Hamilton, Lochhead, and McMahon all played against Bournemouth.
Andy, I agree with you re the photo. I also think that Man City wore that ugly white shirt with diagonal black and red sash in the Charity Shield
-
To be honest, I'm surprised at all that there's even an appetite for safe standing.
The Holte End terrace went (at the same time as all the last remaining ones in the top flight) in 1994. I was relatively young back then and was happy to stand, but eighteen years of being told to take a seat probably means I won't go back to standing.
Meanwhile, a whole generation of support has grown-up knowing nothing but all-seater venues. Are they really going to be willing to stand?
A lot of them stand every chance they get, so yes they are, but that's not the point. They wouldn't have to stand if they didn't want to, neither do you, nor Margaret Aspinall, whose contribution to this debate is as predictable as it is misguided. Sadly, hers is the level of debate we're going to get.
-
Thing is Chris,its warmer,its cheaper,its louder,you can stand with your mates instead of trying to book tickets together,free dom of choice would be ideal
Well, yes, I'm aware of that. However, a whole generation have grown-up not knowing any different than seats and so for them it will be the norm. Standing might be a passing fancy for them, but nothing more.
My other thought is while younger fans are willing to regularly stand up in the seats, would they be willing to go the whole hog and buy a terrace ticket (ignoring price for a moment because saying terracing will be cheaper is just speculative, IMO, unless I've missed the statement about cheaper tickets from the club)?
-
Thing is Chris,its warmer,its cheaper,its louder,you can stand with your mates instead of trying to book tickets together,free dom of choice would be ideal
Well, yes, I'm aware of that. However, a whole generation have grown-up not knowing any different than seats and so for them it will be the norm. Standing might be a passing fancy for them, but nothing more.
My other thought is while younger fans are willing to regularly stand up in the seats, would they be willing to go the whole hog and buy a terrace ticket (ignoring price for a moment because saying terracing will be cheaper is just speculative, IMO, unless I've missed the statement about cheaper tickets from the club)?
The Taylor Report said that supporters would soon get used to sitting. Instead, the desire to stand has grown. A figure of 91.5% support shows that.
-
Even on some Liverpool forums this is being discussed quite sensibly, although as you'd expect there is quite a bit of resistance in that city. Never the less it is being discussed by them. And if you go onto almost any clubs forums you'll find the idea being debated this week. It has also been reported in all the national newspapers. So well done to the club for really starting the debate in earnest.
The trick now is to try to keep the debate going and not let it become last weeks idle chatter. Quite how we do this I'm not too sure.
Maybe someone could make a "Safe Standing Please" banner to hang from the Upper Holte, large enough to be seen by the TV cameras whenever they pan across the Holte End.
Also if you happen to meet MP's or Councillors bring it up with them. Some of you may think that local councillors have no say in this matter but it's the local council that are the issuing authority for ground safety licences. Write letters to the press, bring it up on national and local football phone ins etc.
As long as we keep the debate on a sensible level and argue our corner with sensitivity and put the case forward based on the proven technology now being widely used in Germany and ensure we don't get dragged into spurious arguments about a 'return to the eighties', then I believe that this is a debate that we the fans can win.
-
www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk is useful to quote from.
-
The Taylor Report said that supporters would soon get used to sitting. Instead, the desire to stand has grown. A figure of 91.5% support shows that.
Is that support for people to be given the choice, or that 91.5% actually want to stand? I'd find it hard to believe the latter.
Had a look at safe standing roadshow's site. It does explain how the system works in Germany with the barriers for every row of locked-away seating. Technically, its a good idea that works - in Germany.
The cynic in me still thinks the club wouldn't lower prices (at least not significantly - say to the level of those on the lower North Stand) if they were allowed to implement this on the corner of the Holte.
-
At the SCG they said that the greater capacity of a standing area would be reflected in pricing. They also cited one of their main reasons it as being wanting to attract young fans who have been priced out.
-
The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.
-
The trouble is, whether Margaret Aspinall is right or wrong standing areas would require a law change in England and any politician who attempted it would be dealing with the Margaret Aspinalls of this world and the press who would obviously jump on something like this.
The other main obstacles is that the finances just don't stack up. Supporters of this idea assume that standing areas would be cheaper than seating areas. Why would they? The clubs set the prices and what's their incentive for reducing prices? They would have to make a significant investment first of all in converting seating areas which they would want to recoup somehow. The standard argument is then that you would get more fans going if prices were cheaper. Well, as has been proven over the past 20 years of prices rocketing, football is very inelastic to price changes - fans will generally turn up no matter what. So in much the same way that attendances haven't dropped when prices have been going up they just as likely won't increase sufficiently enough if prices came down.
-
At the SCG they said that the greater capacity of a standing area would be reflected in pricing. They also cited one of their main reasons it as being wanting to attract young fans who have been priced out.
Why have greater capacity when we can't sell out the stadium we have? And that applies to 95% of football clubs, not just the Villa.
As for attracting new fans, the numbers just don't stack up. How much cheaper would standing be? If you made a section of the ground holding 2,000 a standing area at half price then you'd need to find another 1,000 fans from somewhere just to maintain the same level of income. The more you discount and the larger the standing area (assuming it gets filled) the more new fans you need to find. Even when we had a terraced Holte End our crowds have never really moved far from the historical average of 30,000-35,000.
-
I would suggest something like in this picture, designed to accomodate two rows of standing fans, or alternatively one row of fans with the seats dropped down...
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/-JZml64yMF3E/TT1TUZWDgdI/AAAAAAAAAYg/-X8XD-tP3Ds/DSCF0128.JPG)
is not only far far safer than this, designed to pack in as many as possible regardless of comfort or safety......
(http://img.timeinc.net/time/europe/magazine/2009/0629/hillsborough_0629.jpg)
but is also safer than this, designed for seating only but often used for standing.......
(http://www.reidsteel.com/images/content/stadium.jpg)
-
A link to info on Don Fosters bill currently before parliament. http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/safestandingfootballstadia.html
Just to add the bill is now due for debate on 30 March.
Get writing to your MP's. ;)
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches, witnessed first hand by my dad who worked as a turnstile operator at both Villa Park and the sty during the 80's.
I dont want to start a new thread about Hillsborough as there is a thread about that elsewhere and I fully sympathise with those that lost relatives on that day.
In this day and age there is a valid argument to bring back safe standing areas as they would be better managed. The atmosphere would be much better, you can stand with your mates and the noise level would go up. I have rarely felt the buzz I got whilst standing on the old Holte End. Football lost it's soul for me when all seater stadiums were introduced.
As a paying customer I think I should have a choice to stand or sit at a game.
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches, witnessed first hand by my dad who worked as a turnstile operator at both Villa Park and the sty during the 80's.
I thought it had been proved that most of the fans had tickets, or if they didn't, them not having tickets wasn't the problem. There was thread about it a few months ago.
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in.
22 years and still the lie is perpetuated. How many more times does it have to be disproved?
-
The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.
Every gig I go to has people standing.
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches, witnessed first hand by my dad who worked as a turnstile operator at both Villa Park and the sty during the 80's.
I suggest you read the Taylor report and then reassess your thoughtless comments.
-
I dont understand why 10 ppl have voted against this. Bizarre.
edit: Just read that article...
Commentary by Margaret Aspinall chairwoman of the Hillsborough Families Support Group
There is no place for standing in modern football and I cannot comprehend why people want to go back to how it was in the 1980s.
It is both insulting and insensitive to suggest that it is a good idea, particularly knowing there has never been any accountability for what happened at Hillsborough in April 1989.
They should never be put in a position of how it was in the 1980s.
With all due respect to those that lost their lives (and their friends and families) in those disasters, Margaret Aspinall clearly hasnt got a clue what shes talking about if she thinks an introduction of "safe standing" would be in anyway a throw back to the 1980s. It is neither insulting nor insensitive to think such measures would be a good idea, and the fact that it has been proved to be safe and successful in other countries is valid proof that it can work in modern society and modern day football.
I sincerely hope groups or individuals do not campaign against the scheme on the basis of what has happened in completely different situations in the past.
Couldn't have put it better myself, KRS. She's got every reason to be emotional about this issue - I understand that. But that doesn't make her right. The fences and the lack of escape routes were a very large part of the problem at Hillsborough, which is why the key safety measure since 1989 was removing the pens around terraced areas. Other than reducing the numbers on terraces and ensuring more even distribution of fans around standing areas, it could have been left at that as far as safety was concerned. But clubs seized the opportunity to put up prices on the back of shiny new family-friendly grounds - all-seating suited them and probably still does.
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches, witnessed first hand by my dad who worked as a turnstile operator at both Villa Park and the sty during the 80's.
I dont want to start a new thread about Hillsborough as there is a thread about that elsewhere and I fully sympathise with those that lost relatives on that day.
In this day and age there is a valid argument to bring back safe standing areas as they would be better managed. The atmosphere would be much better, you can stand with your mates and the noise level would go up. I have rarely felt the buzz I got whilst standing on the old Holte End. Football lost it's soul for me when all seater stadiums were introduced.
As a paying customer I think I should have a choice to stand or sit at a game.
And when you read the Taylor report in full you will see that that tragedy was waiting to happen at almost any First division ground on a big match day. The failings at Hillsborough were replicated throughout football at that time.
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches, witnessed first hand by my dad who worked as a turnstile operator at both Villa Park and the sty during the 80's.
I dont want to start a new thread about Hillsborough as there is a thread about that elsewhere and I fully sympathise with those that lost relatives on that day.
In this day and age there is a valid argument to bring back safe standing areas as they would be better managed. The atmosphere would be much better, you can stand with your mates and the noise level would go up. I have rarely felt the buzz I got whilst standing on the old Holte End. Football lost it's soul for me when all seater stadiums were introduced.
As a paying customer I think I should have a choice to stand or sit at a game.
I don't know why you'd find an outright lie "gripping". You don't even need to do too much reading to discover what bullshit that is.
-
If that's been proved not to be the case then I will happily stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches, witnessed first hand by my dad who worked as a turnstile operator at both Villa Park and the sty during the 80's.
I dont want to start a new thread about Hillsborough as there is a thread about that elsewhere and I fully sympathise with those that lost relatives on that day.
In this day and age there is a valid argument to bring back safe standing areas as they would be better managed. The atmosphere would be much better, you can stand with your mates and the noise level would go up. I have rarely felt the buzz I got whilst standing on the old Holte End. Football lost it's soul for me when all seater stadiums were introduced.
As a paying customer I think I should have a choice to stand or sit at a game.
And when you read the Taylor report in full you will see that that tragedy was waiting to happen at almost any First division ground on a big match day. The failings at Hillsborough were replicated throughout football at that time.
And anyone that went to West Ham 12 months earlier in the league cup would know this. If fencing had been in place at Upton Park I'm fairly certain Hillsboro wouldn't have happened and we'd be talking about Villa supporters
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in.
22 years and still the lie is perpetuated. How many more times does it have to be disproved?
It might not be true but it is true that thousands of morons turned up for the 2007 Champions League Final in Athens without tickets with the intention of forcing their way in. If you'd think one club would never do that, it would be Liverpool.
-
Lower Holte
I stand at practically every home game, I have a brick wall behind me so I'm not getting in the way of anyones view, the stewards used to come up ask us to sit but we all still stand.
I love standing as I can generally move about keeping warm and the only time I sit in the ground is at half time to read my H&V bought of Percy.
UTV
The Doc
-
The one thing that really grips me about the Hillsborough tragedy is that the finger is always pointed at the Stewards/Police/Turnstiles/Fences/ground layout but no-one ever mentions the Liverpool supporters who turned up ticketless to get into the game. That enclosure was rammed full yet 100/1000's more were flooding in. Liverpool fans back then had a reputation for turning up ticketless and jumping turnstiles at matches
Obviously I was not at Hillborough that day, but I was at a Wolves v Liverpool game in the 1970s - a night match where Liverpool won the title. Because of the enormous crowds that turned up, you were simply crushed all together in the street outside the South Bank terrace. The next thing the pressure eased a little as we were carried in the crowds through a broken down exit gate to eventually finding ourselves on the terracing. If circumstances had so conspired, maybe that could have turned into a Hillsborough, as could a number of games through those years. I have no idea to this day if the gate was smashed down or someone opened it to ease the pressure. What I do know is it was nothing about drunkeness, nothing about hooliganism or jumping turnstiles, or turning up ticketless as such ( it would have been pay on the gate as was usual for terracing at nearly all league games everywhere). That night was all about too many people turning up for a pay on the gate game and trying to get into an inadequete unsafe facility which just about coped as much through luck than judgement. I believe a similar scenario occurred at a Spurs v Arsenal game in the 1970s when Arsenal won the title at White Hart Lane. The luck eventually ran out at Hillsborough.
-
Its a good idea, we are more likely to stay awake
Though there's further to fall when we nod off.
-
The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.
Every gig I go to has people standing.
True, but that's dancing / moshing etc. Football you don't need to stand to create an atmosphere, but evidence says otherwise I suppose.
-
The Taylor Report said that supporters would soon get used to sitting. Instead, the desire to stand has grown. A figure of 91.5% support shows that.
Is that support for people to be given the choice, or that 91.5% actually want to stand? I'd find it hard to believe the latter.
As (my estimate) perhaps only 15% of any ground will actually be converted to terracing then it won't take many of that 91.5% to make it viable.
-
If a standing area can be created safely and people want to stand, then I don't see the problem. If people don't want to stand they don't have to and it shoudl make the stewards' jobs a little easier. Those that won't sit have somewhere to go.
-
The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.
Every gig I go to has people standing.
True, but that's dancing / moshing etc. Football you don't need to stand to create an atmosphere, but evidence says otherwise I suppose.
My moshing days are a long time over but I still stand at gigs.
Anyway, regardless of that, even if it is just football where people want to stand, if there is a safe way for them to do so and those that wish to sit can do so as well then what's the problem if clubs want to introduce it?
-
The problem with the Taylor report is that it makes the argument that all standing was unsafe. Agreed there were many terraces that were in need of improvement and better control. But having stood on the Holte since the mid 70s to the last day of the Holte can someone please tell me exactly how it was unsafe? It was three separate tiers divided by a huge gangway, so a crowd surge in one area could not affect another. To me the Taylor report went too far and for me part of the magic of Villa park died.
And for all the fans who never got to stand on the famous Holte I feel sorry for you, because the current Holte end pails into insignificance compared to the original, and what a daunting site it was to visiting teams. It really was the twelth man!
-
Last night the Brigada lads had a paper mill that they held up before kick off last night.
It read "No More Bruised Shins Bring Back Standing."
As soon as there's a photo available I'll link to it. I believe that they intend to display it at every home game.
-
The problem with the Taylor report is that it makes the argument that all standing was unsafe.
That Taylor Report actually stated the opposite of this - that standing isn't intrinsically unsafe. Its been a while since I read it but I'm sure this is true.
-
The problem with the Taylor report is that it makes the argument that all standing was unsafe. Agreed there were many terraces that were in need of improvement and better control. But having stood on the Holte since the mid 70s to the last day of the Holte can someone please tell me exactly how it was unsafe? It was three separate tiers divided by a huge gangway, so a crowd surge in one area could not affect another. To me the Taylor report went too far and for me part of the magic of Villa park died.
And for all the fans who never got to stand on the famous Holte I feel sorry for you, because the current Holte end pails into insignificance compared to the original, and what a daunting site it was to visiting teams. It really was the twelth man!
Agree with you regarding the awesomeness of the old Holte End, but there were times when it certainly wasn't safe. The biggest problem was that it had quite wide gangways running from top to bottom in which people stood on the rare occasions when it was packed. I can recall two FA Cup SF's in the sixties when I was standing in the gangway and was involuntarily swept 20 metres down the gangway every time something exciting happened on the pitch. At the time (as a youth) I looked on it as little more that an inconvenience, but with hindsight, I shudder when I think about it.
-
The only reason I can see for going back to standing is for the older generation (myslef included) who remember what is was like in the Holte / Kop / Stretford end etc... and what the old days back. What is the practical reason? Will it be cheaper? Football seems to be the only part of life where some people want to stand rather than sit.
Every gig I go to has people standing.
True, but that's dancing / moshing etc. Football you don't need to stand to create an atmosphere, but evidence says otherwise I suppose.
My moshing days are a long time over but I still stand at gigs.
Anyway, regardless of that, even if it is just football where people want to stand, if there is a safe way for them to do so and those that wish to sit can do so as well then what's the problem if clubs want to introduce it?
Indded.
I am going to Download this summer, and I'll protest if they are all standing....and if the music is too loud. I'm too old...
-
This is the safe standing they are looking at north of the border
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/402517_266832933388033_150945454976782_644549_553936701_n.jpg)
-
They could put that in at the Sty.....
-
My vertically challenged concubine occasionally goes to away games with me, but has given up, until the authorities bring back "safe sitting down." Getting elbowed in the head by some drunken numpty, celebrating a goal she didn't see, at Arsenal away, was the final straw. The "neutral area" at Fulham, or sitting with the home fans are now our only options where she can actually see any of an away game.
-
Now thats a result you can come and have a good time with the rest of us :)
-
They could put that in at the Sty.....
They'd struggle to fill it.
-
Was there any update regarding terracing at Villa Park? Last I remember was we were looking into this possibility.
-
Still looking, I believe.
-
I think a lot depends on the passage of the Private Members Bill going through parliament at the moment.If it gets passed into law then I should think the club would have to go into talks with the Premier League, the City Council and most likely with Uefa. Then if all goes well the Safe Standing Area would have to be built. The terracing used for safe standing is shallower than that used for normal seating so it wont just be a case of ripping out old seats and putting in the new ones. Add to all of that the experiment that's about to happen in Scotland, the results of which will be looked at very carefully.
To sum up I think safe standing will come to England but don’t hold your breath I reckon it's at least four or five years away.
By the way anyone going to Werder Bremen will have the chance to see safe standing in operation.