McLeish could be the manager to take this club forward

[Vanilla]

It Villa carry on playing this dull home football , the will struggle to get 25,000  in the near future.

I don't think Villa fans are that bothered about the dull football at Villa Park, they seem to care more about the final result. How else could you explain MON's popularity?

Yeah, but this is dull football without the results.

Exactly. So all McLeish needs to do is win games and not worry about how we do it.

The reason why MON was so popular, was that he happened to be manager at a time when Villa looked like maybe breaking into the top four. McLeish hasn't got a chance, as mentioned above. He has a reputation for playing poor football: as a result, people will perceive the football played under McLeish as worse than it actually is (note: I'm not saying that the standard of football is great at the moment).

Villa only ever looked like breaking into the top 4 due to the league position. The football was at best, midtable. The results, especially away from home were fantastic but we were still, just like now, pretty dull at Villa Park. You're right though, McLeish doesn't stand a chance but it would be interesting to see how different he'd be perceived if he had the same kind of money MON had to spend. What made MON's time exciting was more about what was happening all around the club due to Lerner's investment.

Given the same financial conditions, I really don't see a great deal of difference between the two managers. Neither were/are good enough for Aston Villa but only one is a selfish, egotistical twat.

I doubt McLeish would have spent money on sensational players, he was brought in simply because he can operate (effectively???) on a limited budget.

How would you rate the players he has bought in so far? N'Zogbia has been 95% poor, Hutton dreadful, Jenas an accident waiting to happen and Keane, well we have six weeks to assess his capacity as a season saviour.

His whole mindset is still fixed at lower end Premiership, hence he has acquired players he coveted whilst at Blues.

[Legion]

He also watched our reserves beat the Dingles 7-1 today so I hope he can see what the likes of Gardner, Lichaj etc. can offer.

[Ad@m]

I'm sorry TSOV but to say 'the football was at best midtable' under MON is blindingly far from the truth and masks just have far backwards we've gone in the past season and a half.

We were genuinely competing with the big 4, home and away. Now we cant compete with Swansea!

Yes AML has had it tough, not being able to bring his own players in and all that, but the primary responsibility of a manager is to get the most out of the players at their disposal. Something he is failing miserably at. Of course Randy has to take some of the blame for appointing him but putting 200 million in to the Villa buys you time and respect in my book so I'm not going to be ungrateful.

Maybe we just need to rebalance the books before having another crack at it. I'm just not sure I can put up with watching what gets served up on a Saturday while we go through the process and I know plenty more who are thinking like me.

Dark days ahead I fear.

[Eigentor]

What made MON's time exciting was more about what was happening all around the club due to Lerner's investment.

I think that we're (largely) saying the same thing: MON was popular because he happened to be manager at a time when we looked like progressing. It was more about the expectations about what would come, as the football that was played, and the results he achieved.

That view, though, is maybe slightly simplistic. MON's era can easily be divided in two parts. In the two first seasons, MON was to many part of a dream duo: the PL's best owner who also was happy to invest, and one of the league's best managers. Towards the end, it was becoming apparent that he only was a slightly-above-average manager relying on a fat cheque book and outdated ideas.

[Eigentor]

Villa only ever looked like breaking into the top 4 due to the league position. The football was at best, midtable.

Whatever your thoughts on MON, the key to getting in to the top four is the league position -- not how the standard of football is perceived. 

[Duncan Shaw]

And also, the season we scored for fun in the last few games (and were often in goal of the month contention) was hardly dull - Blose and Bolton at home are two off the top of my head.
We were all scarred by MON leaving, and yes the last 18months the home form was poor, but let's not change the facts because it suits how we feel - under MOn we were top 4 contenders and played some good football.  Now, well it's all just meh!

[Rudy Can't Fail]

How would you rate the players he has bought in so far? N'Zogbia has been 95% poor, Hutton dreadful, Jenas an accident waiting to happen and Keane, well we have six weeks to assess his capacity as a season saviour.

His whole mindset is still fixed at lower end Premiership, hence he has acquired players he coveted whilst at Blues.

Six weeks ago I would have agreed with you about N'Zogbia but his recent performances have shown very solid signs of improvement, in fact I was disappointed he was dropped against Everton.

Hutton, I don't rate but what do you expect for £3m or £4m? In his favour he's probably the most consistent crosser of a ball this season, something Bent desperately needs.

Jenas? Almost impossible to judge. A great debut, everybody came back from the match singing his praises and the next thing we know he's injured. Worth a risk in my book, especially with such lack of experience in our central midfield.

Keane? Too early to say but he certainly won't be as bad as some of the others in the side. He's still an intelligent player even though his legs have gone.

I'd say McLeish's mindset was morte about bringing in a few more experienced heads to allow him to give the kids their chance. That's what this season is for me, seeing in real terms, just how good the kids are before we start spending millions on players that are not as good. I'm sure Lerner hasn't forgotten buying Knight when we had Gary Cahill, nor should he.

[Risso]

I think N'Zogbia has been poor, and in more than half a season he hasn't scored, which is terrible for an attacking player.  Not impressed at all.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I'm sorry TSOV but to say 'the football was at best midtable' under MON is blindingly far from the truth and masks just have far backwards we've gone in the past season and a half.

We were genuinely competing with the big 4, home and away. Now we cant compete with Swansea!

Ad@m, whilst I agree with the rest of your post, the point above is simply a twist on the truth. Whilst we did compete with the big 4 in the games we played against them, we struggled at home with almost everybody else. It was our away results that got us for a time knocking on the door of the Champions League. Whilst we can blame the smaller teams for coming to Villa Park and sitting back to defend, hoping to catch us on the break (something we were excellent at doing away from Villa Park), we should have had enough tactical nous to break these teams down. On most occasions we never did. Once we stopped scoring from free kicks we hadn't got a clue. There was no Plan B and it was extremely dull to watch.

Ironic that you mention Swansea, a team that have had over the last five years progressive footballing managers. Their victory at Villa Park was an accumulation of that work whereas we are paying the price for 5 years of outdated football, a style that wouldn't look out of place in the 1970's. I hope that one day, hopefully in the near future, we select a manager that can change the way we play and drag us into the 21st century.

[Neil Hawkes]

I still can't understand how some are still saying that MON managed top 6, with virtually the same core team that AMcL has now - yet its rather obvious one of the reasons MON walked was due to wanting to replace said players and was told to get rid of them first.
He knew they'd shot their bolt and wasn't prepared to take the can when the budget constraints changed the ballpark from spend, spend, spend to be accountable and work within a restrictive budget.
Yet most blame AMcL, go figure.

[Legion]

I blame MO'N.

[Somniloquism]

"The fans"aren't voting with their feet, just a minority. There are still plenty of people who subscribe to the view of support your club through thick and thin.

Almost a quarter of the crowd down in just over 2-3 years is a sizeable minority. I will grant that a lot is also down higher price rises coupled with the current economic climate. But anybody trying to justify going, especially with the previous conditions affecting them, would be swayed by the football on offer.

[Dave]

Hutton, I don't rate but what do you expect for £3m or £4m?

Or, if we only have limited money to spend how about not just limiting ourselves to Tottenham's reserves?

Newcastle signed Santon, an Italian international who'd played more than 50 games in Serie A by the time he was 20 for £5m. Maybe looking further afield than London might mean we get better players for better prices rather than lamenting our own inadequacy.

[pauliewalnuts]

"The fans"aren't voting with their feet, just a minority. There are still plenty of people who subscribe to the view of support your club through thick and thin.

Almost a quarter of the crowd down in just over 2-3 years is a sizeable minority. I will grant that a lot is also down higher price rises coupled with the current economic climate. But anybody trying to justify going, especially with the previous conditions affecting them, would be swayed by the football on offer.

It's ridiculous to pretend there's not some element of "voting with their feet" going on - look at how much our crowds are down compared to everyone else's.

The argument that there are still plenty who are going through thick and thin is entirely spurious.

31,000 against Everton, and 3,000 of them away fans, is a terrible crowd.

The people who are in denial about the crowds now are probably the same ones who were telling us our crowds would improve after Christmas, "because they always do".

[Chris Smith]

The argument that there are still plenty who are going through thick and thin is entirely spurious.

How is it? It's a statement of fact so cannot be spurious.

Crowds are down but plenty of people are still going. There was a claim made that "the fans" were staying away when that's true for only some fans, plenty of others will keep going because they see supporting the team more than just turning up in the good times. That's why some other fans get taunted with "where were you when you were shit".