McLeish could be the manager to take this club forward

[john e]

it doesnt really matter how we argue it out on the forums, the Fans are voting with there feet,

we were all getting our knickers in a twist over a fan protest which never amounted to anything at all, people saying they were ashamed to support Villa, and it was just a very damp sqiub,
 while the attendance was 31k, take away the Everton away support and you end up with approx 28k villa supporters,

thats the most worrying thing, fans are turning there back on the style of football,
 i'm one of them

Whilst a I agree with the general point about attendances, I'm not sure it's the style that is turning people away.  Were we that much better to watch under MON that we should see this scale of drop off? 

For me fans want to be part of something good and the results, ambition and sense of the club going somewhere will get them to the ground more than the style of play will.

it cant help though can it,
 i suppose people will always turn out for winning football no matter how it gained, but i think most of us know that living in the world of reality our present situation regarding selling players and wage cutbacks means we wont be making a charge on the top 4.
so that for me means you have to have a little hope of something being built, football being played in some sort of entertaining way, [see Swansea yesterday]
i know its difficult and there is no easy answers, but boring football isnt the answer, and i think it does keep people away

[James]

I apologise if people misread my post..

Not your place to apologise for others misreading it Sir, my apologies to you!

I do agree with you, we should be doing much better, ergo the manager is not good enough, but I also believe that the board are playing a huge role in the decline of AVFC, whilst saying nothing at all to anyone at all, and that's a massive concern.

[Monty]

Two things, by and large, make fans turn up: entertaining football or good results (given how often the two go together at the top, no wonder they have the most consistent attendances). We had good results under MON and, sometimes, good entertainment (though less so as teams came to VP more and more just to sit behind the ball), so attendances were up. Under McLeish, we're having decent-to-poor results - mediocre, in other words - with football that is often actively upsetting to watch. It's not fun being labelled consistently as the worst team to watch in a division which also includes Stoke, especially when we can't really disagree or kick up a fuss or cry media conspiracy, like we used to enjoy doing (with the tongue firmly in the cheek).

The feeling around the club is that we're just treading water, happy to exist without really doing anything. For myself, I could accept that current circumstances make our chances of winning the league not great if we were entertaining or causing a stir like that. The reality is that we're just doggy paddling in a sea of mediocrity. Added to the economic situation in WM at the moment, can anyone really blame fans for not spending large proportions of their money to go and watch something which is, let's face it, thoroughly uninspiring?

[Ad@m]

The biggest problem for me is that I just get bored watching games now.  The cost isn't the issue although putting Holte End prices up from £405 to £480 over two seasons is a joke.  I just sit there most games completely disinterested in what's going on on the pitch and thinking about what better things I could be doing with my time.

I didn't feel like that when MON was boss.

[KevinGage]

Two things, by and large, make fans turn up: entertaining football or good results (given how often the two go together at the top, no wonder they have the most consistent attendances). We had good results under MON and, sometimes, good entertainment (though less so as teams came to VP more and more just to sit behind the ball), so attendances were up. Under McLeish, we're having decent-to-poor results - mediocre, in other words - with football that is often actively upsetting to watch. It's not fun being labelled consistently as the worst team to watch in a division which also includes Stoke, especially when we can't really disagree or kick up a fuss or cry media conspiracy, like we used to enjoy doing (with the tongue firmly in the cheek).

The feeling around the club is that we're just treading water, happy to exist without really doing anything. For myself, I could accept that current circumstances make our chances of winning the league not great if we were entertaining or causing a stir like that. The reality is that we're just doggy paddling in a sea of mediocrity. Added to the economic situation in WM at the moment, can anyone really blame fans for not spending large proportions of their money to go and watch something which is, let's face it, thoroughly uninspiring?

Agree 100%  Monts.

[Simba]

I agree that we are 'treading water' and think this is a strategic decision from RL.  The parlous financials and especially the well discussed wage bill /revenue issue being presented as the reason for non investment which forced the club into this holding pattern.

I said some months ago that I thought the Club would insist on selling to buy, to significantly reduce the total wage outlay and to that end bring on the youngsters with view to putting them in the shop window.

McCleish was given this mandate - to keep us up and steady the ship until the financials are in order. When K Mac was promoted to the first team coaching staff it reinforced the feeling that the manager will have to use the kids. Auditors were probably promised a two year window.

I understand the business need for this strategy but it is bloody dangerous. Because:
1 - Relegation is a possibility unless the players can be motivated to fight for no professional (medals)return.
2 - Fans will stay away (thus reducing revenues) if there is nothing to play for but pointless mid-table.
3 - Fans will stay away if the product is crap due to the need for safety first tactics.
4 - The kids have to be both up to Premier standard and consistant.
5 - Even with swop deals 'name' players will not want to come here.

So standards drop, unused players are unnatractive to other clubs, morale is at an all time low. But the wage bill due to contracts remains a millstone. And relegation remains, even this season, a possibility. Fiscal suicide.

We really needed an up and coming Manager with modern ideas working with the kids as an important part of the strategy. Telling the fans that although in transition we are building for the future using our superb academy and core experienced professionals. To the fans the call would have been: "So get behind us as the players fight like lions, with passion and pride to be part of the future of a new Aston Villa".

Instead we look rudderless and without ambition. Usually playing really poor, defensive, frightened football.

And before you ask- no I don't know who should have been that manager.

[Risso]

I agree that we are 'treading water' and think this is a strategic decision from RL.  The parlous financials and especially the well discussed wage bill /revenue issue being presented as the reason for non investment which forced the club into this holding pattern.

We're not treading water, and it's not 'holding'.  We've sold our best players and not replaced them adequately, crowds are down and we're 13th in the league.  We're going downhill rather swiftly.

[Merv]

I can't help thinking that, when decisions were made by the club in the summer, they didn't contemplate the effect it would have on matchday attendances. As others have said, dropping attendances have far more negative impact than mutterings of dissent and demos on websites.

[pauliewalnuts]

Put yourselves in the position of someone who paid 40 quid to go and watch the game against Everton (which was far from the worst performance of late).

Two goals in 450 minutes of football at home.

How much of a hurry would you be in to do that again?

[pauliewalnuts]

I agree that we are 'treading water' and think this is a strategic decision from RL.  The parlous financials and especially the well discussed wage bill /revenue issue being presented as the reason for non investment which forced the club into this holding pattern.

We're not treading water, and it's not 'holding'.  We've sold our best players and not replaced them adequately, crowds are down and we're 13th in the league.  We're going downhill rather swiftly.

We've won 6 of our last 24 games, and one of those was against Bristol Rovers.

We've lost 4 and drawn 1 of our last 5 home games, and managed a pathetic two goals in the process.

I'm not screaming "relegation", but anyone who isn't somewhat concerned about figures like that clearly has balls of steel.

[supertom]

So what we have currently is a defensive manager, whose team cannot defend! He can stand aside and try and shift the blame on Martin O Neill for signing the defence (bar Hutton), but O Neill turns them into one of the meanest defences. O Neills not even noted as a tactician or defensive master mind either. It was man management, motivation, respect. McLeish cannot organise to save his life. A lot of players aren't giving him enough, but he's not demanding it.
 His post match interviews strike me as the sort you always here from managers at clubs resigned to relegation dogfights. It's not quite O Leary, insulting his own fans, bad. But there's something a little pathetic about his interviews and something that suggests he has no ideas on improving the situation, nor great desire to. In all honesty, McLeish strikes me as someone who'll settle for where we are now. Job done.

In retrospect I do feel like Houllier might have been moving in the right direction. I just think that he would have demanded more from Randy and pushed to do more deals in the windows. That's possibly in part, why Randy took the opportunity to end Houlliers tenure here and replace him with McLeish who's merely operating as he's told.

But there's no excuse for playing such poor football. Technically, Swansea's players aren't better than ours, but they play very good football. That said, there's something to be said to just having an effective game plan and doing it uccessfully, like Stoke. Its not pretty, but they're at least good at what they do.

[Concrete John]

We've won 6 of our last 24 games, and one of those was against Bristol Rovers.

We've lost 4 and drawn 1 of our last 5 home games, and managed a pathetic two goals in the process.

I'm not screaming "relegation", but anyone who isn't somewhat concerned about figures like that clearly has balls of steel.

None of those stats make particularly good reading, but we could also point to being unbeaten away in (I think) 5 games. 

The one that matters is the league table and we're presently 13th, having been higher until we entered our run of tougher fixtures.  I think we'll start climbing again and end up as what we are - a mid table side!

[JUAN PABLO]

I can't help thinking that, when decisions were made by the club in the summer, they didn't contemplate the effect it would have on matchday attendances. As others have said, dropping attendances have far more negative impact than mutterings of dissent and demos on websites.

Then If this was true , the people running our club have not got a clue.

[Chris Smith]

But there's no excuse for playing such poor football. Technically, Swansea's players aren't better than ours, but they play very good football. That said, there's something to be said to just having an effective game plan and doing it uccessfully, like Stoke. Its not pretty, but they're at least good at what they do.

The difference being those managers have been there a while and have signed players specifically to play in their style. McLeish has inherited a mish-mash of a squad and has only had limited opportunity to shape it to his requirements.

However many times we dress this debate up into a different thread the facts are he lost 6 players from last seasons first team, hasn't been able to replace them all, is trying to blood several youngsters and the squad is consequently unbalanced.

The club is currently geared up for mid table and that what we're getting.

[NeilH]

I can't help thinking that, when decisions were made by the club in the summer, they didn't contemplate the effect it would have on matchday attendances. As others have said, dropping attendances have far more negative impact than mutterings of dissent and demos on websites.

Then If this was true , the people running our club have not got a clue.

I think it is somewhat naive to think that the club did not factor in the falling attendances.  They have clearly done the maths of the cost required to keep the floating fans versus the loss in revenue if they are allowed to drift away.  I would hazard a guess that the cost of maintaining a 35k average attendance in squad renewal was simply not economically viable and the club just decided to allow the floating fan to fall and reduce the club down to its traditional average attendance of around 28-30k per home game.