McLeish could be the manager to take this club forward

[picicata]

Those saying he is inherently 'defensive', he wasn't that way in Scotland.  He was at Blues.  Better team in a shit league he plays attacking / winning football.  Shit team in a hard league he does what he has to do.  Albeit the latter was with mixed results. 
 

Thats a fine theory which then falls down somewhat when you consider that the season they were in the championship, with a squad that was head and shoulders above most in the division, they were still dull, insipid and scored less than anyone else in the top 10 of the league.

He is a manager that employs a defensive style, all stats and facts point towards this.

[Chris Smith]

For the people who keep banging on about the relegations, it's not like he took Manu down. The Blues are a championship club who have the odd foray into the PL but cannot sustain top flight football. Getting them to 9th and winning the cup were the out of the ordinary achievements for them, the rest is what always happens.

His overall record is mixed, some good and some bad yet his critics will not accept anything that doesn't say that he's rubbish and has always been rubbish.

[Risso]

For the people who keep banging on about the relegations, it's not like he took Manu down. The Blues are a championship club who have the odd foray into the PL but cannot sustain top flight football. Getting them to 9th and winning the cup were the out of the ordinary achievements for them, the rest is what always happens.

His overall record is mixed, some good and some bad yet his critics will not accept anything that doesn't say that he's rubbish and has always been rubbish.

His overall record in the Premier League IS bad.  Even the year they finished 9th they bored their way to a few 1-0 wins and managed a paltry 38 goals scored all season.  You were as aghast as everybody else when he was first mooted as Houllier's replacement, so why pretend that what everybody (including you) feared back then, ie crap football and lack of goals, isn't exactly what he's delivering now?

He's a crap manager, and nothing he did at Blues suggested he was what he needed.  He was appointed for the simple reason that Lerner needed somebody cheap and grateful for a job who wouldn't rock the boat about not having any money to spend.

[paul_e]

Those saying he is inherently 'defensive', he wasn't that way in Scotland.  He was at Blues.  Better team in a shit league he plays attacking / winning football.  Shit team in a hard league he does what he has to do.  Albeit the latter was with mixed results. 

We are a work in progress at the moment.  Personally I flit between being utterly uninspired by the present Villa team to dreaming that they might be a handy side soon.  I think the equation is   something like: realisation that we won't compete past about 7th divided by the fact we weren't really competing above 6th before = confusion. 

I'd just like us to play with a bit of belief, passion and fearlessness.   I reckon ultimately that's where McLeish will live or die as Villa manager. 

That's just not true if you ignore the transition seasons where he didn't get a full season with the club, either through leaving or joining (because I can't be bothered to findthe real stats for goals for for the games he was in charge) you get the following:

94-95 - Motherwell - 50 in 36
95-96 - Motherwell - 28 in 36
96-97 - Motherwell - 44 in 36
98-99 - Hibs(scot 1st div) - 84 in 36
99-00 - Hibs - 49 in 36
00-01 - Hibs - 57 in 36
02-03 - Rangers - 101 in 36
03-04 - Rangers - 76 in 36
04-05 - Rangers - 78 in 36
05-06 - Rangers - 67 in 36
08-09 - Blues - 54 in 46
09-10 - Blues - 38 in 38
10-11 - Blues - 37 in 38
11-12 - Villa - 23 in 21

His spell with Rangers sums him up for me.  He took over a side that were very attacking but that needed to shed some older players to reduce the wage bill.  He did it by getting rid of the creative players and bringing in solid defensive players and the goals for column reflects that perfectly.

Even with 4 years in charge of rangers and a year in the scottish first division his record is only 1.5 goals a game.  When you consider that those numbers at Rangers actually work out at 2.24 goals a game they clearly skew the stats, which is to be expected given the difference in resources celtic and rangers have compared to the rest of that league.  Interestingly since it became the SPL rangers have averaged just under 83 goals a season, which means he was below average for them in 3 of his 4 seasons.

All this goes to show, despite anything he says to the contrary his record shows him as being a safety first defensive coach, which would be fine if we weren't conceding so many stupid goals, the errors in recent weeks it's tough for him to resolve but the problems from corners is totally within his remit and he's not managed to fix that (we haven't conceded from a corner for a couple of weeks but yesterday there were 2 or 3 chances where a more dangerous side would've punished us, same against swansea.

[Chris Smith]

so why pretend that what everybody (including you) feared back then, ie crap football and lack of goals, isn't exactly what he's

We're not seeing " crap football". A lot of what we've seen over the last half dozen games or so has been pretty good, it's only the people who have written their post match thoughts before kick off who are saying otherwise.

I accept that we're not scoring enough goals, but that's through not making the most of our chances, not through sitting back and clinging on.

You'll recall that when he was appointed I said I'd give him a chance and whereas many of you had made up your minds after 6 games I'm still prepared to give him time.

[paul_e]

so why pretend that what everybody (including you) feared back then, ie crap football and lack of goals, isn't exactly what he's

We're not seeing " crap football". A lot of what we've seen over the last half dozen games or so has been pretty good, it's only the people who have written their post match thoughts before kick off who are saying otherwise.

I accept that we're not scoring enough goals, but that's through not making the most of our chances, not through sitting back and clinging on.

You'll recall that when he was appointed I said I'd give him a chance and whereas many of you had made up your minds after 6 games I'm still prepared to give him time.

So you're happy with the first half yesterday and thought that was good football?

Same against Swansea?

[DB]

Those saying he is inherently 'defensive', he wasn't that way in Scotland.  He was at Blues.  Better team in a shit league he plays attacking / winning football.  Shit team in a hard league he does what he has to do.  Albeit the latter was with mixed results. 
 

The Jocks I work with say the opposite - he was dull up there too. Also, the defences you come up against there are a no-where the standard in the PL here, especially when you're one of only 2 big clubs.

[Risso]

so why pretend that what everybody (including you) feared back then, ie crap football and lack of goals, isn't exactly what he's

We're not seeing " crap football". A lot of what we've seen over the last half dozen games or so has been pretty good, it's only the people who have written their post match thoughts before kick off who are saying otherwise.

I accept that we're not scoring enough goals, but that's through not making the most of our chances, not through sitting back and clinging on.

You'll recall that when he was appointed I said I'd give him a chance and whereas many of you had made up your minds after 6 games I'm still prepared to give him time.

And you'll be saying that until he eventually departs, then pretend that you said he was crap all along. 

[DB]

OK, let's look at Newcastle or Swansea - 2 teams IMO that have poorer squads than us, but they play better football, are picking up results against top opposition and are higher in the league.
AMC may be a slow burner, trying to get it right until it clicks, but his past record doesn't indicate so. I fear this is as good as it gets i.e. shit.

[tarzansbrother]

OK, let's look at Newcastle or Swansea - 2 teams IMO that have poorer squads than us, but they play better football, are picking up results against top opposition and are higher in the league.
AMC may be a slow burner, trying to get it right until it clicks, but his past record doesn't indicate so. I fear this is as good as it gets i.e. shit.

Spot on. Both represent both ends of the spectrum as where Villa could be. Good style of football without really taking the league by storm or good results playing much more direct football with a poor run of results thrown in. 

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

Paul Lambert is our man. Young , hungry, innovative  playing  modern day football.

I agree, Lambert is doing well at Norwich, so too the chap at Swansea.
Remember, though, these clubs supporters don't have the expectations like at clubs like ours.
They can play with no fear, just like Blackpool last season, and because everyone expects them to go straight back down there is no pressure.
I just wonder how they would cope at a club where to finish below 8th is deemed failure, just as some supporters of our club do.

That would describe SHA under AM, I wonder where their performances were?

Last season when the won a cup? I think that's where there performances were.

[Chris Smith]

so why pretend that what everybody (including you) feared back then, ie crap football and lack of goals, isn't exactly what he's

We're not seeing " crap football". A lot of what we've seen over the last half dozen games or so has been pretty good, it's only the people who have written their post match thoughts before kick off who are saying otherwise.

I accept that we're not scoring enough goals, but that's through not making the most of our chances, not through sitting back and clinging on.

You'll recall that when he was appointed I said I'd give him a chance and whereas many of you had made up your minds after 6 games I'm still prepared to give him time.

And you'll be saying that until he eventually departs, then pretend that you said he was crap all along. 

No I won't, but given hoe each manager gets rubbished by you at shorter and shorter intervals you should start slagging off every manager in the world now just in case one of them gets appointed here.

[Chris Smith]

OK, let's look at Newcastle or Swansea - 2 teams IMO that have poorer squads than us, but they play better football, are picking up results against top opposition and are higher in the league.
AMC may be a slow burner, trying to get it right until it clicks, but his past record doesn't indicate so. I fear this is as good as it gets i.e. shit.

Spot on. Both represent both ends of the spectrum as where Villa could be. Good style of football without really taking the league by storm or good results playing much more direct football with a poor run of results thrown in. 

Both managers have been allowed to bring in the players they want, I doubt either would get much different from our present squad.

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

Paul Lambert is our man. Young , hungry, innovative  playing  modern day football.

I agree, Lambert is doing well at Norwich, so too the chap at Swansea.
Remember, though, these clubs supporters don't have the expectations like at clubs like ours.
They can play with no fear, just like Blackpool last season, and because everyone expects them to go straight back down there is no pressure.
I just wonder how they would cope at a club where to finish below 8th is deemed failure, just as some supporters of our club do.

Half the problem is Villa fans expecting everything to be great instantly. For example, can you imagine if Brendan Rogers came and managed Villa? By the time the ball had gone from defender to midfielder to defender to full-back to midfielder to defe..."GET THE FUCKING THING FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" No patience.

[Risso]

so why pretend that what everybody (including you) feared back then, ie crap football and lack of goals, isn't exactly what he's

We're not seeing " crap football". A lot of what we've seen over the last half dozen games or so has been pretty good, it's only the people who have written their post match thoughts before kick off who are saying otherwise.

I accept that we're not scoring enough goals, but that's through not making the most of our chances, not through sitting back and clinging on.

You'll recall that when he was appointed I said I'd give him a chance and whereas many of you had made up your minds after 6 games I'm still prepared to give him time.

And you'll be saying that until he eventually departs, then pretend that you said he was crap all along. 

No I won't, but given hoe each manager gets rubbished by you at shorter and shorter intervals you should start slagging off every manager in the world now just in case one of them gets appointed here.

I don't like crap football.  You know full well that if we appointed Trevor Francis with Barry Fry as his assistant and they took us down, you'd still be there with your ridiculous Chris Smith schtick.  You believe that you've built an internet persona and nothing with will divert you from that.