Saturdays Pre Match Entertainment. ( The McLeish Out Demo).

[pauliewalnuts]

Ungrateful as it seems, Lerner's big plus was his money. Now its gone or seems to be, then who wants an invisible Doug or Kenwright based in america? At least them too are/were there day to day and know whats going on. I doubt the Houllier vs player thing would have got a hold if he wasn't MIA all the time

 I can't even be bothered to debate with you. Every post you ever submit is an excuse for not going down.

How is that post an excuse for not going down?

[JJ-AV]

We took a chance, didn't get there and are still dealing with the blow-out.

Had we kept going we could have ended up in an even worse position where we had to sell players, as opposed to just not bringing any new ones without selling first that we're seeing now.

It's difficult because the Club seemed to look toward a new approach in the short term, while still balancing the books, with the Ajax quote and Houllier's appointment. Then when that needed changing we reverted to type and are going to get a few years of mediocrity served up until we're ready to challenge again.

Our chance will come. I reckon Randy's intention is for us to spend big again, we've just got to bide our time.

A bit of clever investment and we're in Newcastle's position. That is the time when we really invest to push on again.

I doubt Newcastle will do that, in 18 months they'll be back to midtable mediocrity without Cabaye, Tiote and Ba.

Randy has proven he'll back our managers when he's able to.

[PeterWithesShin]

I'm very disappointed in where we are at this stage of Randy's ownership, but at the same time am not ready to write him off after 2 disappointing seasons. He has more credit in the bank with me than that. Another year or two of this though and my opinion may well change.

Besides, i'd rather be broke and midtable in the top flight than be broke and midtable in the Championship (or worse) which is where I think we'd have ended up under Doug.

[Greg N'Ash]

So what's your suggested 'solution' to the problem Greg?

To be honest Dave, I haven't the foggiest.
New rich owner - seems unlikely as Lerner has apparently no plans to sell.

Build a good squad with the youth team products - again seems unlikely they're all turn into top players.

Hope Lerner changes tack - possible if the economy improves but then we've got the big fair play problem to overcome or the "keep the richest clubs rich" clause as i call it.


No idea really

[Jimmy Smash]

Ungrateful as it seems, Lerner's big plus was his money. Now its gone or seems to be, then who wants an invisible Doug or Kenwright based in america? At least them too are/were there day to day and know whats going on. I doubt the Houllier vs player thing would have got a hold if he wasn't MIA all the time

 I can't even be bothered to debate with you. Every post you ever submit is an excuse for not going down.

How is that post an excuse for not going down?

Read every other Greg Nash post over the past 5 years and you'll get the picture.

[Jimmy Smash]

While I would never normally criticise other fans for getting up off their arse and standing up for things they believe in (however misguided), all this protest will do is reinforce the mistaken belief that McLeish is not wanted because of his past association with Blues.  I'd save any anger for the man who has completely buggered things up, Randy Lerner.  It doesn't really matter who is in charge until Lerner sells, although we obviously stand a better chance of getting relegated with McLeish in charge.

Yes, Lerner. Bugger off and take all that money you've invested with you. How dare you give it managers to buy players with.

How quaint. No wonder you think Lerner's doing a good job if that's the sum total of your understanding of the situation.  I expected more if I'm honest.

The "sum total of my understanding of the situation" covers a lot more than looking at a few figures and forming an opinion based on my own prejudice. It includes such things as talking to experts in this field, asking questions of relevant parties, and, on the whole, being satisfied with the explanations given. 

Experts like Paul Faulkner I assume.   And what view did these "experts" give? That everything is going swimmingly?

No, experts such as accountants, football journalists specialising in the business side of the game, activists in supporter groups. Those sort of experts. They tend to agree that things could be better, but they could be a lot worse.

I must say Dave, you're so far up their arses you hardly offer an objective opinion.

Sorry... that post was unfair. I retract.

[pauliewalnuts]

Ungrateful as it seems, Lerner's big plus was his money. Now its gone or seems to be, then who wants an invisible Doug or Kenwright based in america? At least them too are/were there day to day and know whats going on. I doubt the Houllier vs player thing would have got a hold if he wasn't MIA all the time

 I can't even be bothered to debate with you. Every post you ever submit is an excuse for not going down.

How is that post an excuse for not going down?

Read every other Greg Nash post over the past 5 years and you'll get the picture.

I have. I'm talking about that one, though, as you said every post..

Looks to me like you engaged him in debate, ran out of answers then started saying "well, you just want excuses not to go".

There are plenty of posters here who rarely or never go, for whatever reason. Look at our attendances, there are plenty of Villa fans who don't go. They still have the right to an opinion.

[Jimmy Smash]

Ungrateful as it seems, Lerner's big plus was his money. Now its gone or seems to be, then who wants an invisible Doug or Kenwright based in america? At least them too are/were there day to day and know whats going on. I doubt the Houllier vs player thing would have got a hold if he wasn't MIA all the time

 I can't even be bothered to debate with you. Every post you ever submit is an excuse for not going down.

How is that post an excuse for not going down?

Read every other Greg Nash post over the past 5 years and you'll get the picture.

I have. I'm talking about that one, though, as you said every post..

Looks to me like you engaged him in debate, ran out of answers then started saying "well, you just want excuses not to go".

There are plenty of posters here who rarely or never go, for whatever reason. Look at our attendances, there are plenty of Villa fans who don't go. They still have the right to an opinion.

Like I said, I can't be bothered to argue this one.

[villadelph]

The thing is, it didn't all come down to Randy. The entire board and the higher ups within the club thought it would be a bright idea to hire Alex freakin' McLeish. I don't know how anyone could think that would be a good move. How are the fans supposed to sing your name after you've gone and promoted the manager of a relegated rival. You sell the better half of our squad and tell us nothing except we have adopted a sell to buy policy. How are we pinching for pennies?!

I have always been a fan of Randy Lerner and not only admire his ability to manage sporting clubs (or lack there of) but also his success in his actual business. However, his lack of involvement and inability to attend games is unacceptable. Who was the last player to be met by Randy on the day they arrived? I wouldn't be surprised if some of our newer signings hadn't met Lerner until weeks later. He's invisible and it is impossible to shoot arrows at a target that doesn't exist.

We can harp on the past all we'd like. And there's no doubt in my mind that a midfield with the likes of Ashley, Milner, Barry and Dxwning could have competed with the elite for years. We had a manager that had finally formed a decent squad worth watching, yet his inability to meet his Champions League ultimatum saw all of the for-mentioned talent wither away.

Will we ever sing Randy's name again?

It's hard to support the Villa, because the Villa has become so distant from the hopes and dreams we had only a few years ago. It's now become a club of damage control. Instead of looking for players and managers alike that will help us challenge for top honors, we have instead began to ask ourselves, "Will he keep us up?" How has that even become an issue for us. We've witnessed a fall from a grace we just barely flirted with, and the pain is only getting worse.

Someone surely has to get something right along the way, no?

McLeish is a top bloke. He's got great character, thick skin and a will to win. But the simple fact is at this level of football, he's not a winner. We need a manager who can handle skilled and gritty opponents with his own creations. Any manager can pack it in and pray for a point. His inability to coordinate an offense at this point in the season really scares me. What scares me even more is that the type of players he is likely to bring in, that is if we stay up. He's not the most attractive manager to go off for. The fact of the matter is, if you can't win at home you can't manage the Villa. Moreover, if upon your arrival 14,000 seats turn up empty.. you're in the wrong neck of the woods.

We had the talent to become a force in the Premier League, and we now long for this 'stability' that mediocre clubs claim is the most important thing. We have missed our chance for greatness. It hurts.

utv.

[Sexual Ealing]

I've just read the whole thread. Fucking hell, folks, this doesn't matter, does it? What a waste of all our time.

And I realise that I'm worse than all of you - I don't contribute (apart from if I've had more than 3 glasses, when I normally have a pop at Dave Woodhall for no real reason), I just sit here with ennui.

Stop caring so much about this. Spend more time with your families; learn the piano; take up smoking smack - anything but this. It's such a tedious waste of our thoughts, and the only winner is Rupert Murdoch.

Can I be banned please Dave?

[dave.woodhall]

No. You've spoken the most sense all night. 

[villan1975]

I've just read the whole thread. Fucking hell, folks, this doesn't matter, does it? What a waste of all our time.

And I realise that I'm worse than all of you - I don't contribute (apart from if I've had more than 3 glasses, when I normally have a pop at Dave Woodhall for no real reason), I just sit here with ennui.

Stop caring so much about this. Spend more time with your families; learn the piano; take up smoking smack - anything but this. It's such a tedious waste of our thoughts, and the only winner is Rupert Murdoch.

Can I be banned please Dave?

Think it been a really interesting read/discussion to be fair though only problem being that it has been
discussed within this thread,which in a perverse way will in their heads add credence to their "protest".

[KevinGage]

We took a chance, didn't get there and are still dealing with the blow-out.





Our chance will come. I reckon Randy's intention is for us to spend big again, we've just got to bide our time.

I reckon he's done his chips in all honesty.

I was fully on board with the idea of sweating our assets, cutting back on the excessive waste on the wage bill and all the rest of it.  But since July 2010, we've lost the likes of Harwood, Shorey, Davis, NRC, Friedel, Carew, Young, Downing yada yada yada.

Stop me if you think you've heard this one before.

That should have made a pretty sizeable dent vis a vis wage reduction.    Have other clubs -clubs with similar sized budgets such as ours- used failed deals as an excuse not to compete anymore?

Tottingham is the club who feature most often when we make these kind of parallels yet, Simon Davies, Edgar Davids, Andy Reid, Jonathan Woodgate,  Alan Hutton, David Bentley, Darren Bent, Gomes and many others have never been used as an excuse to stop investing completely.

If RL overstretched himself and is now paying the price, fair enough.  I admire the vision and generosity he displayed in those first four years (by vision I don't just mean spending. He had Bob Kain, Fitzgerald and other heavy hitters on board until he decided that young Faulkner was his go to guy).  If he thinks he can opt out for a few years and then spend to get us back to a vaguely respectable level, he is deluded.   We might as well change our club motto to behind the 8 ball or wage bill, wage bill, wage bill.

[Greg N'Ash]

Spot on KG.

[atomicjam]

Totally agree KG.