Darren Bent

[glasses]

I maintain that if he fancies it and if used properly, Carroll could be utterly lethal and score bagloads of goals in this league.
Not that I want to lose Bent of course.

But Carroll never has so there is a major IF in your statement.  Bent on the other hand has a proven track record of scoring bagloads of goals in this league.

The suggestion of a straight swap of them is one of the craziest things I've read on the internet in a long time.

Carroll was in prodigious form before he went to Liverpool. I wanted us to sign him when they were in the Championship.
He's probably the best aerial threat in the league and can be lethal but I know all about his problems too so of course it would be a big gamble.

But in any case, I'm not suggesting swapping Bent for him, just that I dont agree he's anything like as useless as some are making out.
If somebody gets him back to the form he was showing before he moved to Liverpool (which makes a lot of good players curiously shit for some reason) you're basically talking about one of the top scorers in the league. In my opinion.

I basically agree with you but am struggling to think of any players who have got back to their best after suffering failed-big-money-move-to-big-club syndrome.

Van Der Vaart and Scott Parker had big moves to Real Madrid and Chelsea respectively, and both improved after leaving. I'd throw Glen Johnson into that as well.

[PaulWinch again]

Carlton Cole? good grief.

[Villanation]

If we sign Carroll, Collins will have a field day......HOOF!

If we were to sell Gabby, who seriously would go for him?

Its being rumoured that Redknapp is right after him and looking at about 16M/20ML for him and the latest being Chelsea, that would also put some reasoning behind why we are looking to get strikers in fast.

The Spurs thing also suggested a swap plus cash deal for Pav coming our way.

And Redknapp would be right to go for this, imagine a forward line with Bale and Lennon wide and Gabby + in the centre, massive unstoppable pace.

[Concrete John]

I would like us to try something new and radical and play without the wide players, having a sitting midfield player (Clark), 2 in the middle (Petrov and Bannan/N'Zogbia) and an advanced player (Ireland).  This does not mean we do not use the wide areas but move into them rather than have players already in them.  I think this would get the best out of Gabby and Bent playing together as twin strikers and allowing them to move all across the front line and interchange.

That pretty much amounts to a diamond in midfield, which we played against Wigan and worked quite well.  As I'd see it, the bottom of the diamond would be Petrov, Clark or Herd, the middle two would be from Bannan, Albrighton or Delph and the top of the diamond would be Ireland or N'Zogbia.  The way it seemed to work was Gabby had a bit of freedom to use the width, with Bent staying central.  Bannan played that day and did very well, IMO.

I've said before that CNZ may be better more central for us, so if super Marc can adjust to it then it may be a winning formation for us.  And it also allows Clark to move back to CB.

Presuming everyone is fit:-

                   Given
Hutton - Clark - Dunne - Warnock
                  Petrov
      Albrighton - Bannan
                N'Zogbia
             Bent - Gabby

Not needing Clark in midfield also allows us to switch the back around a bit, as he could play LB with Carlos in the centre if he doesn't take Hutton's RB slot.  Could keep them on their toes back there at least!

[Villanation]

I must say that there have been some strange and blinkered comments both for and against selling Bent.  As for the logic, I think there is very little in some of the comments.

Much as I like Gabby and the rare excitement when he is playing well, I have thought about the comments that we played far better at Chelsea with him up front on his own.  Yes, he did give Terry and Luiz the runaround for a fair part of the game but when it comes down to the important things that win games like creating chances and scoring goals was he involved.

Ireland's goal was essentially Ireland playing through N'Zogbia who made a terrific run to the byeline before setting up Ireland.  Gabby started to drift out of the game in the 2nd half when we dropped deeper and looked frustrated both with his own performance and lack of service/support (familiar?).  Gabby then had a one on one with the goalkeeper and failed to score (could have cost us the match).  For Petrov's goal Gabby was not involved at all and likewise for Bent's goal.  With Bent's goal it showed the difference between him and Gabby.  Bent does not always score these one-on-ones but you would back him more than you would Gabby.

So, other than providing an out for the defenders by running the channels and chasing lost causes, did Gabby influence the game other than perhaps giving the others confidence by following his example in effort.  Also, the question has to be asked, is Gabby intelligent enough and skillfull enough to play up front other than on his own.

As others have quite rightly said, to win games you have to score goals and we do not have midfield players and defenders that can score enough goals.  We rely on our forwards to score goals, it has been like this for a number of years.

To yesterdays match and some things I noticed that I do not think have been mentioned (apologies if I have missed them):

1.  When the Swansea defenders had the ball all of our players except Bent dropped back which left Bent on his own having to cover all across the line and as he does not have Gabby's pace he looks as though he is not trying to close them down.

2.  When we attack down the wings, both N'Zogbia and Albrighton were starting from too deep.  Young and Downing were fast players and could afford to start from deeper positions but N'Zogbia and Albrighton do not have the same pace so have to start from more advanced positions.

3.  I cannot remember one time that N'Zogbia or Gabby or Albrighton when he came on reaching the byeline and pulling the ball back or square across the goals.

4.  A lot of the balls into the channels for Gabby were long balls into space rather than passes.

5.  Even with a front 4 of Bent, Gabby, N'Zogbia and Ireland, who on paper look a very attacking line up, we didn't look like an attacking team.

6.  What stood out the most though was the complete lack of a player in the middle that could dictate the tempo of the game.

None of the above points were a direct reflection on Bent's performance and I believe there is so much more wrong with our team before even getting down to discuss the positives or negatives of Darren Bent.  There are far more serious issues elsewhere, whether it be individual players performance levels, effort, tactics or formation.

Why do most supporters have a fixation with having to play 2 wide players which results in either 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1.  A some have said, 4-4-2 with N'Zogbia and Albrighton leaves us exposed in the centre of midfield and we therefore have to give up creativity in this area.  Also, it is a very flat and rigid system.  I have been thinking for some time that the cause of our problems may be down to the combined low level of performance of the 2 wide players.  N'Zogbia is only now starting to show some flashes of his ability and Albrighton likewise has had a poor end to last season and start to this.  Neither of these players will be a patch on Young or even Downing, who themselves struggled at time to overcome the loss of Milner's workrate in the middle of the park.

I would like us to try something new and radical and play without the wide players, having a sitting midfield player (Clark), 2 in the middle (Petrov and Bannan/N'Zogbia) and an advanced player (Ireland).  This does not mean we do not use the wide areas but move into them rather than have players already in them.  I think this would get the best out of Gabby and Bent playing together as twin strikers and allowing them to move all across the front line and interchange.

Reasonable post OMVF, the only point I would disagree about and would make the point have you ever played footy at a decent level is with reference to the Gabby miss, that situation or type of 1 on 1 is one of the hardest a player can convert from, he was straight in front of goal on his approach, Cech was out very fast and narrowed the space extremely well, problem for Gabby was he's so fast that nobody else attacking for Villa had the chance to catch him, very very difficult position to convert from, and just to expand on that, look at the Bent goal, Stephen Ireland breaks from virtually the same position as Gabby did, Ireland had the same chance Gabby did but he had the option to lay the ball of to Bent who was available to his right, he took that option not because he bottled out of that choice ( as many footy fans would suggest) but because instinctively he knew how difficult it was to convert from that position,  otherwise IMO the chances are you would have seen a repeat of the Gabby miss, and even though Bent had the ball laid of for him he still needed a deflection.

So with all due respect I think you a bit over critical of Gabby's miss, his chance of missing there and the pace the game was being played at was immense.

[KRS]

I would like us to try something new and radical and play without the wide players, having a sitting midfield player (Clark), 2 in the middle (Petrov and Bannan/N'Zogbia) and an advanced player (Ireland).  This does not mean we do not use the wide areas but move into them rather than have players already in them.  I think this would get the best out of Gabby and Bent playing together as twin strikers and allowing them to move all across the front line and interchange.

That pretty much amounts to a diamond in midfield, which we played against Wigan and worked quite well.  As I'd see it, the bottom of the diamond would be Petrov, Clark or Herd, the middle two would be from Bannan, Albrighton or Delph and the top of the diamond would be Ireland or N'Zogbia.  The way it seemed to work was Gabby had a bit of freedom to use the width, with Bent staying central.  Bannan played that day and did very well, IMO.

I've said before that CNZ may be better more central for us, so if super Marc can adjust to it then it may be a winning formation for us.  And it also allows Clark to move back to CB.

Presuming everyone is fit:-

                   Given
Hutton - Clark - Dunne - Warnock
                  Petrov
      Albrighton - Bannan
                N'Zogbia
             Bent - Gabby

Not needing Clark in midfield also allows us to switch the back around a bit, as he could play LB with Carlos in the centre if he doesn't take Hutton's RB slot.  Could keep them on their toes back there at least!

Sorry but that midlfield would get walked over by any decent team and the defence would have to HOOF to get any kind of release from the pressure. Ooh...

[Rick_avfc]

Carlton Cole? good grief.

it gets better and better with each day lol

[taylorsworkrate]

The only way I'd contemplate selling Bent is if we were guaranteed £30 million + and we spent ALL of the money on quality replacements.

[Toronto Villa]

Carlton Cole? good grief.

it gets better and better with each day lol

that's because hysteria sets in and rational thoughts get kicked squarely in the nuts and thrown to the curb. I might have been concerned we'd be after Carlton Cole had MON been around, but even then he had 4 years to sign him and didn't. McLeish's limited transfer activity in now way indicates he'd go after someone like Carlton Cole, and I say that despite Alan Hutton to date being a below par signing. Cole would be numerous leagues worse than that.

[Concrete John]

I would like us to try something new and radical and play without the wide players, having a sitting midfield player (Clark), 2 in the middle (Petrov and Bannan/N'Zogbia) and an advanced player (Ireland).  This does not mean we do not use the wide areas but move into them rather than have players already in them.  I think this would get the best out of Gabby and Bent playing together as twin strikers and allowing them to move all across the front line and interchange.

That pretty much amounts to a diamond in midfield, which we played against Wigan and worked quite well.  As I'd see it, the bottom of the diamond would be Petrov, Clark or Herd, the middle two would be from Bannan, Albrighton or Delph and the top of the diamond would be Ireland or N'Zogbia.  The way it seemed to work was Gabby had a bit of freedom to use the width, with Bent staying central.  Bannan played that day and did very well, IMO.

I've said before that CNZ may be better more central for us, so if super Marc can adjust to it then it may be a winning formation for us.  And it also allows Clark to move back to CB.

Presuming everyone is fit:-

                   Given
Hutton - Clark - Dunne - Warnock
                  Petrov
      Albrighton - Bannan
                N'Zogbia
             Bent - Gabby

Not needing Clark in midfield also allows us to switch the back around a bit, as he could play LB with Carlos in the centre if he doesn't take Hutton's RB slot.  Could keep them on their toes back there at least!

Sorry but that midlfield would get walked over by any decent team and the defence would have to HOOF to get any kind of release from the pressure. Ooh...

Possibly, but the formation allows for the player deep, be if the CBs or the deep lying midfielder to have options in fornt of them.  It also allowed us to get some neat passing traingles going.  I think the key is the two in the middle of the diamond (it was Bannan and Delph against Wigan) as they need to be positionally disciplined to stop us getting over run, but also get up and support attacks.

Not saying it's the answer, but it does offer some solutions to some of the problems we have.

[TaxDodger]

I like how the sky transfer expert man said there was truth in the Bent to Liverpool rumours, then backed it up by saying that Liverpool's director of football was at Spurs when they signed him. I'm not sure why that means he's going there.

[KRS]

@ taxdodger - like I said, I think the media circus will run and run with the Bent story and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' wont be the only clubbed he's linked with this window. They are clutching at straws with whatever links they can. All sounds very familiar when it comes to our top rated players once they get in the England team.

@ John - I dont think any formation or team line-up played against a piss poor Wigan side provides a sound basis for any tactical decisions to be honest. The only thing I can see with that is being camped in our own half with the occasional counter attack. Until we get some strength and quality in midfield we need to play 4 or 5 across the middle of the park giving us some bite in midfield and an outlet to break down the wings to supply Bent or Gabby.

[Dante Lavelli]

I basically agree with you but am struggling to think of any players who have got back to their best after suffering failed-big-money-move-to-big-club syndrome.

Bergkamp, Van der Sar, Thierry Henry and Scott Parker?  Even Maradona fluffed his lines at Barca.

[The Laughing Policeman]

I basically agree with you but am struggling to think of any players who have got back to their best after suffering failed-big-money-move-to-big-club syndrome.

Bergkamp, Van der Sar, Thierry Henry and Scott Parker?  Even Maradona fluffed his lines at Barca.

Is that a reference to his football or his liking of a bit of Colombian Marching Powder?

[Rick_avfc]

I dont know why but I just have this feeling Bent will be sold this window. If he goes then thats fine but I would like to see that money re-invested into the squad.  Knowing ecks luck, we will sell bent for like £20m and he will only get £8m to buy a player + maybe 1 loan signing